California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[Sarcastro]

If I was soft-claiming, then why did I clarify that I was not a cop after Setael voted for Zindaras and both you and IH expressed some degree of agreement/belief? Gaspar was the only one who seemed to doubt me immediately, and that would make sense no matter what, since I accused him of being scum. If I were scum in that position, a full-blown cop claim looks fairly promising (assuming I even get to that position as scum, which, as I stated before, is improbable).

Zindaras, why haven't you claimed yet? Seriously, you are taking way too long. At least four people have expressed a willingness to lynch you today, and that's not even taking into account that you should have claimed yesterday. Your blatant refusal is incredibly anti-town.

[Talitha]

Did anyone else think that it was interesting the way Sarcastro role-claimed seemingly out of nowhere? It was kinda like... "I believe Gaspar, oh and by the way here's my role claim.. not that you asked for it, or anything, but I'm Dantes too."

[Talitha]

My current theory is that there is/was only one Dantes. Cubs started off being Dantes, but when Cubs died, Dantes needed a new host. At some point Grey became Dantes, but was killed when Gaspar checked him.

Gaspar, does your role PM give any clue about the number of Dantes in the game?

I am still struggling with the seeming coincidence of Tamuz voting for Mr Grey

right before

Mr Grey starts being listed on the condorcet. Why, out of the blue did Tamuz suddenly include Grey on his condorcet? If that hadn't happened, we probably would never have suspected Grey. He was not included on the player list in the vote count immediately before Tamuz voted. I just can't get my head around this.

[Talitha]

The last point I am trying to make there (in my previous post) is that if Mr Grey was already a live

player

before Tamuz voted for him, he should have been listed in the mod's vote count condorcet lists even before the Tamuz vote due to this rule on the first page:

Vote: G, K, L, No Lynch, P

The example list expresses a preference to lynch G first, then K if G is not an option, then L, then no one, then P (

and then anyone else that is alive

, with equal preference).

(Underlining is mine for emphasis)

It could be a mod oversight I guess, I am just very confused.

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

5 to lynch.

Zindaras: 2 (Sarcastro, Setael)
Gaspar: 1 (Zindaras)

[Gaspar]

Gaspar - If you had checked Cubs when he was still alive, do you think that would have also done the job of "killing Dantes"?

I am almost positive that the answer here would have been 'no.' I don't know what's going on with the "multiple Dantes" thing, but what I do know is that after Night Three, I asked the mod if I needed to keep targeting people at night and he told me I did not.

Why has no Dantes body shown up? Why did your role want to kill Dantes. What's the flavour?

Okay... first, flavor of the kill, as revealed to me via PM:
I snuck through the mansion, eventually found Mr. Grey's room, awoke him, he told me it's not safe, I called him Dantes, he fliched, he goes on about some poetic justice for bringing everyone here, I shoot him, another Mr. Grey shows up, I pull a WTF?, Grey says that I killed

Dantes

, another guest -- not Mr. Grey himself. I try to shoot Grey but fail. He tells me that he cannot be killed and to go back to bed.

As far as why this wasn't revealed to the rest of the town, I can only speculate. I believe he could have been targeted/killed by somebody else, although I have no idea what would have happened with revelation of his death. My role just states that I want Dantes dead, so this leads me to believe that A) others can target/kill him; and B) at the very least, I would be informed of his death.

Now, as far as flavor of my role in general goes: I find myself in a mysterious place with mysterious people, but I recognize some as being from one of the books I co-wrote. Concluding that Dantes is likely the mastermind behind this odd sequence of events, I decide that offing him would fix everything. In the meantime, I need to cover my own ass.

Were you the only one who could kill Dantes?

Again, don't think so, but there's nothing firmly indicative either way, and I never bothered to ask. I had assumed that others could kill him because up until the day before I did kill him, I figured Dantes was a regular player.

Does any of this explain why Cubs showed up as someone else on death?

Y'know, this thought literally

just

popped into my head as I was typing the first paragraph.
I'd be willing to bet that others were made to believe that they were Dantes partially as red herrings to my own role. It'd keep me running around a bit longer, and it does give everyone something to think about.

Gaspar - Who are the scum here, in your neutral opinion?

You actually move down on my scumlist, being the only person to actually investigate my role flavor/mechanics thoroughly. I was pleasantly surprised that so many took it at face value, but I'd generally expect protown players to want to dig a little deeper.
Right now, I'd say Zindaras, DragonPhoenix, and SilentLee. Sarcastro is sortof a wild card here, IH gets bonus points for being a Fresnonite or whatever he is, and Setael's play just strikes me as being distinctly protown. (I decided, in retrospect, that her mistaking LmL for teamscum is almost certaintly a protown oversight and not an attempt to mislead as scum.)

If I had to make a Condorcet right now, it'd look about like this:
Zindaras, DP, SiLee, Sarc, Tally, [IH, Setael], No Lynch, Gaspar

Gaspar, does your role PM give any clue about the number of Dantes in the game?

It does not, but as I said before, when I asked if I needed to keep searching and was told no, that pretty much confirms that there are no living Danteses (which is why I consider Sarc to be a wild card -- either he's lying through his teeth, or there's some subtle-but-significant difference between being Dantes himself or being the Count, #34, etc.)...

I've just seen Tamuz-voting-Grey and him appearing in the Condorcet as a very, very fortunate sequence-of-events for me. I suppose that, if I survived to near-endgame and had checked all of the living unknown players, I could see myself targeting Grey. DP, being the resident mod-role mastermind, may be able to share some insight into the psychology and mechanics of having an NPC in a game.

[Gaspar]

what I do know is that after Night Three, I asked the mod if I needed to keep targeting people at night and he told me I did not.

Check that, I asked him this during Day Four, after IH had done his Dantes-incarnation speculation, not right when I killed Dantes. I just want to make sure that's not confusing anybody because I just said "after Night Three."

[Talitha]

If I had to make a Condorcet right now, it'd look about like this:
Zindaras, DP, SiLee, Sarc, Tally, [IH, Setael], No Lynch, Gaspar

Isn't it in your best interest to lynch a townie today, though? The game would finish and you would win, right?

[Gaspar]

Not really. The mafia has less reason to kill me than any protown player because, as I said earlier, any Lynch -1 will see me hammering immediately. Even if I help lynch scum today, they still have the "If we get Lynch-1 on a townie, Gaspar will hammer that townie" tomorrow.

I'm about 75% sure that I'm going to win regardless of what happens from here on out, and I run the risk of appearing shady if I don't come truthful to the protown players 'round here.

[Dragon Phoenix]

If this one were no already on 73 pages, I would seriously considering asking for a replacement, because I have two very busy weeks ahead of me - but I should be able to mee the posting requirement. Tomorrow I will try to get my thoughts on paper. Oh, and talitha, you move up on the scumminess mainly because of your reactions to Gaspar. In addition, my scumdar has been so bad this game so far, that I am considering a negative approach: those I thought least scummy might actually be scum. More tomorrow.

[Talitha]

I am wondering whether the poisoner should claim. Assuming that xyzzy's death was caused by someone who is still alive, should that person claim now? They would fill in an extra piece of the puzzle for the town today and give us another person (along with Gaspar, if we believe him, and I think I do) who we know is not one of the (likely) 3 allied scum.

And right now, I can't see how the poisoner could be anti-town. I think they are town (or maybe neutral, but srsly I've never played in a game with a neutral before that I can remember.. this is why I do not expect to find them.)

[IH]

argh, quick check in, sorry I've been sick and sleeping.

[Talitha]

Check in with 25+ words, IH!

[IH]

Gaspar, you have a kill? You seem to imply it in your above post.

If so, what were your targets?

Sarc's rolename claim didn't look anything like a cop claim, it looked more like "hey look, I believe Gaspar, and this is why, etc etc" similar to when I explained myself after MGM's lynch.

I still would like a Zindaras lynch, it looks like he's just trying to keep a faltering wagon on someone who had attacked him alot.

[Talitha]

Of course that part didn't look like a cop claim. It was the

Gaspar and Zindaras are scum. I guarantee it. BTW I'll probably get day-killed.

THAT looked like a cop claim. Am I wrong?

[Setael]

After 1809 and 1810 I'm feeling DP and Talitha scum together. DP saying Talitha's reaction to Gaspar is scummy felt off, and then Talitha totally disregarding DP's accusations looked like scum ignoring a partner's distancing attempts so it doesn't go anywhere. The third could be Zindaras or IH. I'd be willing to vote for any of those 4.

[Talitha]

What are your opinions on Silent Lee and Sarcastro, Satael? What have they done to make you trust them more than you trust me, DP, IH or Zindaras?

[Sarcastro]

Zindaras. Claim. Now. You've already broken the rules by transparently lurking for over 72 hours to avoid having to claim.

And yeah, Talitha is probably scum too.

[Silent Lee]

I am not lurking. You can tell that I am not lurking because, with this post, I am posting. See me post?

More to come soon. 23, 24, 25, 26.

[Setael]

@Talitha: Why do they have to convince me they're not scum? If the scum are in my top 4, then Silent Lee and Sarcastro are town aren't they? It's not so much what they have done to make me trust them, it's what you, DP, IH and Zindaras have done that's looked scummy. I'm much weaker on Zindie - a lot of why I think he's scum is that pooky was town. Seems like one of yesterday's wagons necessarily would've been scum. Plus I'm getting the feeling that I was making some incorrect assumptions about him. I'm weaker on IH than I've been all game, as well. That's probably just because he's good at being scum.

[Gaspar]

Gaspar, you have a kill? You seem to imply it in your above post.

If so, what were your targets?

I wouldn't say that I "have a kill" exactly. I would only have killed if I targeted Dantes.

N1 I targeted Pooky more or less randomly.
N2 I targeted Skruffs because he had soft-claimed power and I guessed Dantes would be a power role of some kind.
N3 I targeted Grey. Results obvobv.

[Mr. Grey]

Zindaras has not posted in over 72 hours, and will be replaced as soon as a replacement is found.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I am busy with meetings and business dinners until Wednesday evening. after that, things should slow down sufficiently to make a better analysis. I apologize, but end November is a very busy time for me.

[Sarcastro]

I am so pissed off at Zindaras right now. He had better have a pretty fucking good reason for disappearing like this, right in the middle of a game with a two-week deadline when he

should have claimed days ago

. Fuck. This is ridiculous. And now it's going to take forever for a replacement to be found, because this game is just so bloody long and boring.

Ugh. We've already wasted a week of this day doing absolutely fucking nothing because Zindaras is being an idiot, so I'm going to come out and say it: I have a daykill, and I want a massclaim. I'm going to be deciding the order, because, according to Gaspar's stated willingness to help the scum quicklynch, a single pro-town death is enough to give the game to the scum (if there are four left, which people seem to be assuming). So basically, if you're pro-town, not claiming means we lose the game. Good times, eh? Handily, this also pretty much confirms me as pro-town, assuming Gaspar is telling the truth.

Zindaras (or his replacement) will be going first. I think Talitha will be second. I'll think about the rest of the order. I'm open to suggestions.

I realise that this might not be the correct play. But I'm so fucking frustrated right now that I don't care. We have made absolutely

no

progress since I joined the game, besides lynching LML. It's Lylo or close to it and people still don't seem to fucking care. Certainly Zindyscum doesn't care. So we're going to be doing this my way, or I kill you. Savvy?

[Silent Lee]

My spider senses, which are never, ever wrong, tell me that Sarcastro is not full of shit. Please comply with his requests posthaste. I'll claim whenever. There's a decent chance that we roll up a couple quick scum if this goes well. If I'm wrong in my read of Sarc, I'll eat a parabola.