Open 19 - Nightless (Over?) before 430

[Elias_the_thief]

Yeah. I really didn't expect Tony to be scum. Then again, I didnt really have a read on him.

[Guardian]

Wow, that was lucky. I'm really not into VitaminR scum now.

vote: Skruffs

.

If Skruffs isn't the last scum, I'm hella surprised.

[Elias_the_thief]

well, thats good reasoning to place a vote this late in the game.

[Simenon]

Vote Count

Skruffs (1)- Guardian

[Guardian]

Elias, who's scum?

You? No.
Me? No.
Thok? I highly doubt it after yesterday.
VitaminR? Possibly, but unlikely after yesterday.
Skruffs? Yeah.

[Elias_the_thief]

Um, still. Explain why you feel that way. Why is a no for me? Why are thok and Vit unlikely after yesterday? And further, why, besides process fo elimination, is skruffs scum?

[Guardian]

I've thought you were town all game, and I think I'm right.
Thok changed the lynch from a VitaminR lynch to a Tony-scum lynch. Also Tony was really 'suspicious' of Thok.
VitaminR was pushed by Skruffs (and Tony to a lesser extent), as an alternative to Tony scum lynch.


I don't really think we need more than process of eilimination.

But, Skruffs I haven't liked all game. He acts town, then not, then town, then not, and has bad logic and good, and his inconsistency and confusingness make me think he is a good candidate.

[Skruffs]

???
Now I'm inconsistent, when in your last post you were saying I was 'consistently pushing VitaminR for five days", when in fact it had been for three days, and for MUCH better reasons than you had been pushing for IH?


You are assuming that VitaminR didn't bus Tony - which is one of the main reasns I think he is likely to be scum, because as scum, he more easily busses his partners than town.

OH LOOK! VitaminR's been on every lynch. But that's town. which is also why you were targetting IH as scum.

Fortunately I can rule off a Guardian/VitaminR scum pairing, but I think your push on me (which is continued from the day before (hmmm when did Guardian suspect TOny??) is pointless.

[Skruffs]

"I don't really think we need more than process of eilimination."

This is just wonderful.
A process of elimination that is completely biased, at that. And the coming from the same mind who said he would be willingly lynched if IH turned up town.

I'm not going to coutner vote you because I think it is likely you are town, and the reasont hat has been further cemented is because Tony pushed for the "Didn't someone they would agree to be lynched if IH turned up town" theory, after *not* trying to defend IH and letting him be lynched, whh indicates he was probably hoping for a double mislynch.

so Yes:

Vote : VitaminR

If VItaminR is not scum, I will *most likely* go after Thok, but that is said by a man who has fesasted ont eh entrail of birds and fish for too long this day. (Happy tghanksgiving, all)

[Thok]

I'm confused about how VitR's vote for Tony can be seen as anything more than VitR trying to keep himself alive. In my mind, it's a null tell.

Mod

, can we get a prod on VitR, as I want to be certain he knows he survived the lynch and still needs to participate.

[Simenon]

Prodding VitaminR

[VitaminR]

Thanksgiving miracle!

I'm confused about how VitR's vote for Tony can be seen as anything more than VitR trying to keep himself alive. In my mind, it's a null tell.

Mod

, can we get a prod on VitR, as I want to be certain he knows he survived the lynch and still needs to participate.

I just read it.

Skruffs, check the first Nightless. I was on every lynch then too. I was town.

Also, Thok is right concerning my Tony vote. I was saving my own hide.

I need to read this game from start to finish. I only have gut impressions of everyone to share at this point and I don't think they're very helpful.

[VitaminR]

First 10 pages

First two posts:

random vote: Tony Moonshine

Because I'm impatient.

Vote: Drain Bead

For starting a wagon on an easy target.

With what we know now, I kinda doubt Thok (replaced Drain Bead) is scum.

vote:John

Wouldn't be surprised if this was a bus. Blahgo is now Guardian.

um, i actually had similar questions about the game, seeing as this is my first nightless as well. i think any intelligent scum would make it a point not to ask that, but ask about some other power role (i know this is WIFOM). I dont know. i admit it makes him more suspicious than anyone else so far, but im not comfortable with lynching him for ignorance.
Anyways, bandwagons are not inherantly scummy. I mean, a bandwagon to start conversation is a good thing, as long as there's no random lynch. But i dont like how blahgo just jumped on without saying anything.
so

fos: blahgo

, and

unvote

for now.

I can see this as a scum response too.

well, i know that NAR saw that the site was up, i talked to him on scumchat. wierd that he didnt post. anyways, ill go back to my

vote: NAR

in case it isnt registered. sadly we lost the post where i laid out my six reasons that NAR is scum. but i think you guys remember so its all good.

NAR vote is too easy.

Implications are hard to acertain with text, NAR. try cold hard evidence.

Unvote, FoS: NAR

Just cause i think i had a vote on him, but i forgot so this is just in case. this new server thing is almost like a fresh start to me.

Reading on, I'm siding with Elias over NAR in this discussion. Also thought this was interesting. NAR is Skruffs now.

Well those are my thoughts. ill start with a

Vote: Occult

. I think its quite possible that him and John are a scumpair.

Mod: a Votecount would also be nice

I can see BM (now Guardian) drawing this conclusion about a townie + scumbuddy.

Battle Mage's post #112 comes off as very scummy to me. He manages to accuse and defend just about everyone in that post. It is a typical "scum covering their bases" type of post.

UNVOTE

VOTE: Battle Mage

The scum pairing of John and Occult because of that post 62 is a little ridiculous in my opinion. And to call it the "scummiest" post thus far is quite a stretch. It is also a very safe post to criticize because it really has little to do with the game itself. Also, that early in the game, I severely doubt that scum would buddy up like that.

This kinda comes out of nowhere. Inclined to see this as a point in Guardian's favour.

I believe Skruffs' attack on Occult and he does a huge post filled with analysis that is quite good.

There was also a bit of interaction between Skruffs and Romanus (Skruffs asking Romanus for a summary of his suspicions) that looked sincere enough (didn't feel like scum interaction).

Recap:
Thok = probably town
Elias = more townish than not
Skruffs = townish and scummy things
BM = more scummy than town

[VitaminR]

Pages 10 - 20

I'm going to hold on to my Battle Mage vote. He is still the scummiest player in my eyes, but I also realize the need for a solid choice for a lynch, and I will not hold that up if we near a deadline.

This stubbornness is a bit weird.

you've REALLY lost me now. My argument for voting Occult, was mainly that i felt him and John were scumbuddies. the fact that Occult WASNT scum, implies that the original voting logic was flawed, and thus John probably isnt scum-UNLESS he is much cleverer than he looks, and has succeeded in attaching himself to a townie, which i find unlikely.
BM

Ambivalent about this.

MissMoo's first post with analysis seems sincere enough. I don't see scum accusing three town players of an alliance.

Right after Simenon threatens with a modkill:

lol i thought u were kidding about the deadline.
cant you find a replacement for John?

I don't see a scumbuddy doing that.

Skruffs redirects discussion towards John. Again.

Guardian comes in concluding that John is likely scum because IH and me are scum and have been bussing John. Agrees to vote John with us for now, though. That is so scummy.

i think any intelligent scum would make it a point not to ask that, but ask about some other power role

This is an open setup... power roles? Scum who forgot there were no power roles? Only scummy thing I saw by you.

There arent power roles? This is my first open game, and I'm unfamiliar with the rules of open games I guess. I think you meant to say in a nightless, and in that light I now see that my comment was pretty dumb, though not necessarily suspicious. My opinion of Guardian is that he is an experienced player who will contribute, but I havent got much of a read alignment wise as of yet.

This reads like scum interaction. I don't like how passive Elias is here, btw. Granted, he was pretty busy at the time, but still.

Recap (impressions in these 10 pages):
Thok = slightly townish
Elias = scummy
Skruffs = probably town
BM = more scummy than town

[VitaminR]

20-30 pages

I think that three scum are thowing their new comrade under the bus - but I have no problem with this. If not, then we have mystery scum #4 and Skruffs IH and Vitr still seem scummy to me, though I would be wrong about Skruff's leading his buddies. I am like 80% sure YB is scum though... IH still would have been a better lynch for today, I'm like 90% sure on him.

Notice that all three of Guardians scumlist, other than YB, are the experienced players.

What are you getting at with this point? I was just curious. (im sorry this is the best my reread came up with) Also, Im a fairly experienced player, so the point doesnt really make sense, as I'm not up there.

Im waiting on Aimee's response to Vits points. Up until now I havent found much wrong with her play (besides the "If I had to choose between John and IH, I would pick John. IH isn't the target today really. I will vote YogurtBandit, unless he comes up with some reasons why I shouldn't." post), but now that those points have been brought out into the open she's moved up a spot on my LoS.

I don't like how easily Elias throws his lot in with the Aimee camp, without seeming to retain any of his own earlier suspicions.

Impressions:

VitR is town. I will be shocked if he comes up scum.
I do not like IH's play on this page. It looks like deflection by way of a pro-town post.

The only post by Aimee only confirms my position on her, but admittedly, I am reading a lot into it.

Not much on Elias

Blahgo, well, is just being blahgo.

There seems to be something up between Tony and IH. I don't know that it is due to alignment or what, but something to keep an eye on.

Strange that Romanus leaves in a comment about Elias, but doesn't say anything about the other players he doesn't have anything to say about that. Could be because he wouldn't forget his scumbuddies.

Having said that, Elias then posts a pretty good case against Romanus. No vote, though. I'd like to see where he goes with that.

Romanus, Elias - Both seem to be suspicious of at least several players and seem to be seeking scum. I get a protown vibe from both of them.

This is interesting. I would kinda doubt Tony would say that about 2 scumbuddies, but he is ballsy enough.

OK Elias, I asked you to do it for the following reason:

I thought we had a group of four likely town like players who all trusted each other's townness, minus me trusting Vitr. If I were willing to let slide for a moment that I don't trust Vitr, and I was right about my impression of having four town like players who thought the other three were town like, then we would have an interesting alternate strategy/side strategy for winning.

As long as the four players kept seeming townlike, and we still trusted each other, we could just keep lynching people not in our group, and would eventually get all the scum. Even if we got all the scum except one (Vitr? ), there would be four of us left with two chances to get that scum lynched.

Doubt Guardian is scum.

I am no longer leaning to the side of you being a misguided townie, but rather to the side that you are scum.

UNVOTE
Vote: Guardian

Aimee can now wait. You have become top priority.

Also in Guardian's favour.

So, I'm going to say that my attentions will be on mustafa, AImee, Elias, VitR, and IH, (or their replacees), in that order. Not all of them are scum but i'm sure one or two of them are.

more later!

Too wildly inaccurate to come from scum.

I have to apologize for my post earlier. I let my RL interfer with the game. But I still think Romanus' post was really dumb

I think the case on IH is decent, but I have to go back and reread to get a clearer idea of the reasons behind the Occult wagon. If theyre what Guardian is saying, I'm pretty suspicious of IH, because thats the most important part of the case. Also, after rereading the linkage case, I see it as feasible. Its not enough to convince me fully, but there are a couple of good points in there.

Anyways, I'm most suspicious of Romanus right now, for the reasons in my case 3 pages ago, for his flipflopping on Guardians case, and for his recent dodging of my question and that incredibly dumb post refusing to respond to questions.

If this is still true here, why weren't you voting him?

Recap:
Thok = town
Skruffs = townish
Guardian = town
Elias = scummy

I'm really inclined to see Elias as scum at this point. His behaviour today is another example. Skruffs and Guardian come blasting out of the gates, with reasoned, consistent (pretty much) votes. Elias just seems to be standing by, prodding at Guardian, but with no real indication that he has an idea of who is scum.

[VitaminR]

I have to go to work now. I posted that because my class was cancelled and I happened to have some time (also, Thok is making me feel guilty).

I'll try to finish it later.

[Elias_the_thief]

um, i actually had similar questions about the game, seeing as this is my first nightless as well. i think any intelligent scum would make it a point not to ask that, but ask about some other power role (i know this is WIFOM). I dont know. i admit it makes him more suspicious than anyone else so far, but im not comfortable with lynching him for ignorance.
Anyways, bandwagons are not inherantly scummy. I mean, a bandwagon to start conversation is a good thing, as long as there's no random lynch. But i dont like how blahgo just jumped on without saying anything.
so

fos: blahgo

, and

unvote

for now.

I can see this as a scum response too.

Um...why?

well, i know that NAR saw that the site was up, i talked to him on scumchat. wierd that he didnt post. anyways, ill go back to my

vote: NAR

in case it isnt registered. sadly we lost the post where i laid out my six reasons that NAR is scum. but i think you guys remember so its all good.

NAR vote is too easy.

"XXX vote is too easy" is a RETARDED scumtell. For a person to decide a vote to be easy to begin with, they have to be scum. So basically you're saying I'm scum because I'm scum. Doesnt make sense. Not to mention that despite 2-3 people voting him already, I added entirely new reasons to his case.

Well those are my thoughts. ill start with a

Vote: Occult

. I think its quite possible that him and John are a scumpair.

Mod: a Votecount would also be nice

I can see BM (now Guardian) drawing this conclusion about a townie + scumbuddy.

Except that no one ever adequately explained the "connection"?

Battle Mage's post #112 comes off as very scummy to me. He manages to accuse and defend just about everyone in that post. It is a typical "scum covering their bases" type of post.

UNVOTE

VOTE: Battle Mage

The scum pairing of John and Occult because of that post 62 is a little ridiculous in my opinion. And to call it the "scummiest" post thus far is quite a stretch. It is also a very safe post to criticize because it really has little to do with the game itself. Also, that early in the game, I severely doubt that scum would buddy up like that.

This kinda comes out of nowhere. Inclined to see this as a point in Guardian's favour.

I had the same stance...so why not bring that up?

There was also a bit of interaction between Skruffs and Romanus (Skruffs asking Romanus for a summary of his suspicions) that looked sincere enough (didn't feel like scum interaction).

i think any intelligent scum would make it a point not to ask that, but ask about some other power role

This is an open setup... power roles? Scum who forgot there were no power roles? Only scummy thing I saw by you.

There arent power roles? This is my first open game, and I'm unfamiliar with the rules of open games I guess. I think you meant to say in a nightless, and in that light I now see that my comment was pretty dumb, though not necessarily suspicious. My opinion of Guardian is that he is an experienced player who will contribute, but I havent got much of a read alignment wise as of yet.

This reads like scum interaction. I don't like how passive Elias is here, btw. Granted, he was pretty busy at the time, but still.

Yes, granted I was busy (aka, having 2 days access a week), and also that it's my playstyle to be passive much of the game? The only time I really get much into it is in my own defense.

Recap (impressions in these 10 pages):
Thok = slightly townish
Elias = scummy
Skruffs = probably town
BM = more scummy than town

Wow, I like how I went from mostly towny to scummy based on one post which was too passive, and based on a vague claim that that's a scum interaction. Nice. Even while at the same time, you admit that I was busy.

20-30 pages

I think that three scum are thowing their new comrade under the bus - but I have no problem with this. If not, then we have mystery scum #4 and Skruffs IH and Vitr still seem scummy to me, though I would be wrong about Skruff's leading his buddies. I am like 80% sure YB is scum though... IH still would have been a better lynch for today, I'm like 90% sure on him.

Notice that all three of Guardians scumlist, other than YB, are the experienced players.

What are you getting at with this point? I was just curious. (im sorry this is the best my reread came up with) Also, Im a fairly experienced player, so the point doesnt really make sense, as I'm not up there.

Im waiting on Aimee's response to Vits points. Up until now I havent found much wrong with her play (besides the "If I had to choose between John and IH, I would pick John. IH isn't the target today really. I will vote YogurtBandit, unless he comes up with some reasons why I shouldn't." post), but now that those points have been brought out into the open she's moved up a spot on my LoS.

I don't like how easily Elias throws his lot in with the Aimee camp, without seeming to retain any of his own earlier suspicions.

What suspicions did I have of Aimee, pray tell? I thought she was townie the whole time, based on the fact that there was no real case against her. Oh, by the way, she came up town.

Impressions:

VitR is town. I will be shocked if he comes up scum.
I do not like IH's play on this page. It looks like deflection by way of a pro-town post.

The only post by Aimee only confirms my position on her, but admittedly, I am reading a lot into it.

Not much on Elias

Blahgo, well, is just being blahgo.

There seems to be something up between Tony and IH. I don't know that it is due to alignment or what, but something to keep an eye on.

Strange that Romanus leaves in a comment about Elias, but doesn't say anything about the other players he doesn't have anything to say about that. Could be because he wouldn't forget his scumbuddies.

Having said that, Elias then posts a pretty good case against Romanus. No vote, though. I'd like to see where he goes with that.

He probably left a comment about me because we had been arguing the whole game up to that point, and wanted to post an official stance. I find it even more interesting that he places you as definate townie. I don't have anywhere to go with my Romanus case, he's dead.

Romanus, Elias - Both seem to be suspicious of at least several players and seem to be seeking scum. I get a protown vibe from both of them.

This is interesting. I would kinda doubt Tony would say that about 2 scumbuddies, but he is ballsy enough.

Exactly, I doubt he wouldnt put two scumbuddies. I like how you include the last part, so even though this should really be a point in my favor, you try to turn it so at least it won't be remembered that way.

OK Elias, I asked you to do it for the following reason:

I thought we had a group of four likely town like players who all trusted each other's townness, minus me trusting Vitr. If I were willing to let slide for a moment that I don't trust Vitr, and I was right about my impression of having four town like players who thought the other three were town like, then we would have an interesting alternate strategy/side strategy for winning.

As long as the four players kept seeming townlike, and we still trusted each other, we could just keep lynching people not in our group, and would eventually get all the scum. Even if we got all the scum except one (Vitr? ), there would be four of us left with two chances to get that scum lynched.

Doubt Guardian is scum.

Why.

I am no longer leaning to the side of you being a misguided townie, but rather to the side that you are scum.

UNVOTE
Vote: Guardian

Aimee can now wait. You have become top priority.

Also in Guardian's favour.

*shrug*

So, I'm going to say that my attentions will be on mustafa, AImee, Elias, VitR, and IH, (or their replacees), in that order. Not all of them are scum but i'm sure one or two of them are.

more later!

Too wildly inaccurate to come from scum.

Um...what? This doesnt even make sense.

I have to apologize for my post earlier. I let my RL interfer with the game. But I still think Romanus' post was really dumb

I think the case on IH is decent, but I have to go back and reread to get a clearer idea of the reasons behind the Occult wagon. If theyre what Guardian is saying, I'm pretty suspicious of IH, because thats the most important part of the case. Also, after rereading the linkage case, I see it as feasible. Its not enough to convince me fully, but there are a couple of good points in there.

Anyways, I'm most suspicious of Romanus right now, for the reasons in my case 3 pages ago, for his flipflopping on Guardians case, and for his recent dodging of my question and that incredibly dumb post refusing to respond to questions.

If this is still true here, why weren't you voting him?

I was waiting for everyone's input. Though I don't entirely remember the context, I can't really explain it off the top of my head.

Recap:
Thok = town
Skruffs = townish
Guardian = town
Elias = scummy

I'm really inclined to see Elias as scum at this point. His behaviour today is another example. Skruffs and Guardian come blasting out of the gates, with reasoned, consistent (pretty much) votes. Elias just seems to be standing by, prodding at Guardian, but with no real indication that he has an idea of who is scum.

wtf? You think Guardian came out with strong reasoning? That's bullshit, he came out saying, "der, that guy aint scum, dat guy is!". Skruffs also just votes.

Ok, could you compile seperate cases on people, instead of just this mumbo jumbo then declaring various people one thing or another? As far as I can tell, most of your cases for people being town, and me being scum, are bullshit.

[Thok]

Elias, could you make a list of your suspicions with reasons? I'd also like to hear an explanation for your lack of voting yesterday.

[VitaminR]

Ok, could you compile seperate cases on people, instead of just this mumbo jumbo then declaring various people one thing or another? As far as I can tell, most of your cases for people being town, and me being scum, are bullshit.

This is unwarranted. You misinterpret half of what I say. I went through the thread, spewing out things as they struck me. Yes, they're not going to come out perfectly worded.

If you can't read someone else's posts with an open mind, maybe you just should kneejerkvote everyone who has suspicions of you.

[Skruffs]

I think VitaminR has posted a good analysis, although it *might* be because his neck is starting to chaff from the rope around it.
I think it's interesting that he pulled Elias out of the mix as the dark horse last scum. Guardian would be a much easier target, but perhaps, if VitR is scum, he wants to save Guardian for tomorrow.

[Elias_the_thief]

Dude, my problem isnt that it isnt worded perfectly. My problem is that I don't even know what to defend, yet youre naming me your top suspect. My problem is at the end you declare that everyone looks town except for me, but I can't at all tell whats backing that up. If you could provide a few solid reasons for each, then I'd be happy.

[Thok]

Elias, could you make a list of your suspicions with reasons? I'd also like to hear an explanation for your lack of voting yesterday.

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias, could you make a list of your suspicions with reasons? I'd also like to hear an explanation for your lack of voting yesterday.

busy now.

[VitaminR]

Dude, my problem isnt that it isnt worded perfectly. My problem is that I don't even know what to defend, yet youre naming me your top suspect. My problem is at the end you declare that everyone looks town except for me, but I can't at all tell whats backing that up. If you could provide a few solid reasons for each, then I'd be happy.

I realise and you deserve a clearcut answer. However, what's up there is only 3/8ths of the way through the game and it's not that clearly organised. I'll clarify what I meant on the basis of your responses at some point, but those posts alone were never meant to be taken as my case against you.

The fact that you called bullshit before you even really knew what I was saying just grated on me.

Also, the lists at the end of each post reflect my impression of those 10 pages alone, not my impressions of the whole game at that point.

[Thok]

The fact that you called bullshit before you even really knew what I was saying just grated on me.

Also, the lists at the end of each post reflect my impression of those 10 pages alone, not my impressions of the whole game at that point.

Feh, I don't really mind Elias calling bullshit on this, since most of your arguments feel guttish, and your gut hasn't been particularly accurate this game.

I feel like the only really major point you have on Elias is a conflated lurker wagon/not hunting scum wagon, half of which I'm neutral to (the lurker part) and half of which is worthwhile persuing (hence why I asked Elias for a list of his suspicions).

To be fair I haven't been saying much about my suspicions today, but that's mainly because I want to see how everybody reevaluates the game knowing Tony is scum. Given that I'm the only person that voted Tony yesterday with the expectation that he would be scum, I've got the least amount of reevauation to do. (Although somewhat surprisingly, I have done some reevaluation based off of people's initial reactions today.)