Open 20 - Pie E7 (Game over) - before 453

[Skruffs]

Oh, so I *have* replaced.
Hi everyone.
What do I need to know?
Simenon said I Was on the chopping block.

[Skruffs]

It's hard to read a game while dodging bullets.
Reading.

[Skruffs]

I'm reading.
As it stands - having played with Ripley and Patrick in Pie2, I am really not liking Patrick's pushing of Jordan's asking simenon whether or not he's a cop. IT started off logical enough but it kind of degenerates more into just an outright push and less a non-biased view on jordan's motivations. Riply (at the end of page 3) is kind of playing the foil - but i don't think ripley has voted him at this point.

More to come later.

[Skruffs]

To be honest, Patrick, you are probably the most at risk - as scum - in this game, because we have the exact same setup with you as scum AND as town. So looking at you is a good place to start.
I have not gone back and compared your actions so fare this game with the way you started in Pie2, but you started off pie1 as mafia roleblocker as fairly silly and kinda bantering around, going with the flow.
Happy Birthday.

[Skruffs]

Limiting? No. I am taking it one step at a time. I'm starting with Patrick. I'll branch out from there... Have I voted or fossed him? No. If I had a lot more free time I could afford to do a giant post all at once, I don't. I'm not going to scrutinize only patrick, or scrutinize him more than any others, but i can compare things with him versus both other games - if he was helpful in teh beginning, for example, if he pushed strongly for a lynch on someone who was town in either/both, etc etc etc.

I will note that you are quick to discredit me before I'm even half way through lookign at one person in particular, Ripley. Why? Would you prefer I analyze someone who has the least amount of information available first - Aimee, for example?

[Skruffs]

So PAtrick's birthday is my scumday.
Way to steal my glory, beatch. D:<

[Skruffs]

*taps Ripley's skull with a reflex hammer*
I'm NOT focusing on the 2 previous Pie C-9s so closely and exclusively. I'm STARTING OFF with the known facts and working from there. When you say that I am focusing on those games exclusively next time, please please refer to this post. Stop freaking out, Ripley, even if I figure out that you and Patrick are scum, you'll be able to get a mislynch on me. It's cool.

My 'current' approach is stuck between 9 other games and a job that has just changed from being inside and at a computer, to outside dodging traffic. Sometiems I am tired, physically and mentally, and don't feel up to posting. As it says in my below signature. You'll have to take my word for it, but I didn't make the signature JUST to avoid posting content in this game.

[Skruffs]

well - Patrick - have the two of you gone after each other yet this game? you don't seem to mind helping each other go after other people (Jordan, aimee, etc) but this is only on page 6. I do like your analysis of Ripley and Simenon though on page 5, that actually reassures me about your intentions. before what started as a decent scum tell seemed to be being exploited into an unnecessary case, and Ripley helped it along without actually voting for it. BY page six, Aimee and teffc have not really said much worth commenting on, and Simenon is, ugh, Simenon.

[Skruffs]

Aimee - I haven't gotten tot he part where patrickpushed for a claim (if he did) - I'm talking about the way he (and ripley, in a more hidden way) pushed the jordan's tell about simenon (me). Anyways this is the night I do my final analysis, and I am glad you were all so patient for me.

[Skruffs]

Thanks patrick. I don't know if defending me is a scum tell or not, yet. >.>

[Skruffs]

grrrr
power outages over the weekend.
yay rain.
tonight.
i appreciate the patience, it's NOT stalling, i promise

[Skruffs]

I finally finished rereading, and I appreciate you all's confidence.
Okay, first of all, I have a huge post which is saved on Google, and I can post it on here if you want, but it's a huge, unedited, stream-of-conscious mess.

To be short, there's a lot of things that stood out in this game.

Patrick: You are the most experienced player in this game, and you know precisely how this game works, but you complained about PAradoxombie not claiming. You earlier pushed for Jordan to claim. Claiming is, as I thought you knew, useless to power roles in this game because mafia have the ability to stop both roles from being able to be used. Paradoxombie would have been a 'partially cleared' cop day two with no result if he had claimed, and the doctor would still have died. Or vice versa.

Ripley and Patrick and Aimee re: simenon - Patrick rescinded his vote close to deadline. He didn't vote for either IH or Paradox. But he then was suspicious of Simenon - at least at the beginning of the day - for switching quickly to paradox (someone he said eh thought was town). However, Patrick chose not to vote, instead filling his posts about how he would be around for the hammer, he was going to be there for the hammer, he would try to be there for deadline, etc. He wasn't - and that was very convenient. Ripley's first vote of the game was a hammering vote.
His FIRST post of day two was all sweet alligator tears. "Well, I didn't WANT to vote him, I thought he was Town, and I didn't think it would be at all helpful to lynch him, but any lynch is better than no lynch... oh... and why did Simenon vote him, anyways? That's suspicious! Didn't he say he thought Paradox was town, earlier?" And this followed by Aimee. "Simenon is very suspicious, yes, I think he's suspicious for the same reasons as the two above me. >.> <.<"
That is a dramatization but you get the point. Patrick asked a question about Simenon and Ripley and Aimee jumped on it.

Later on, Ripley mentions a perfectly pleasant game. Whether I replaced Simenon or not, I would completely sympathize with his frenetic posting. He screwed up and he wanted to right it, so he put a lot of quick, not-very-well-harnessed energy into catching scum. Ripley on the other hand is 'sitting pretty' - he is in no rush, has no pressure.

Simenon noticed (as I noticed) that all through day one, Ripley and Patrick kind of trade off for each other. Patrick notices something, Ripley pushes it. Someone accuses Ripley, Patrick questions them. Patrick and Ripley did not ONCE question each other day one; all suspicious talk was directed at the other five players. After simenon points out this peculiar relationship (and I noticed it in Pie 2 so I don't want to say it's a full-out meta tell) Simenon makes a very slight comment about how Patrick *could* be manipulating his suspicions to make him suspicious of Patrick.

Patrick did notice this - questioned it - Ripley ignored it - and Patrick brought it to his attention again.but Ripley's response doesn't make ANY sense. Patrick seems to buy it though, and I wonder if this was some slight British distancing or something.

IH's post where he 'noticed' what Simenon is saying makes me happier. Simenon did vote Ripley, and Ripley's response seemed to be more convincing simenon that he could be easily quick lynched than it was of Simenon being scum quick hammering. but Ripley has been rather suspicious of Simenon the entire day - which is contradictory.

If someone I thought was scum put a vote on me, and I was town, I would either A) freak out and try to tell everyone he was scum don't let me get hammered oh god, or B) Show him that I'm not afraid because as long as townie doesn't vote, you're okay, while meanwhile building a case against him.

Ripley chose C - act afraid of being quick lynched (by two scum, presumably) while building a case against the person on you. Anyways, that is a weak argument that only makes sense to me, I guess.

This is turning into another stream-of-consciousness post, so, I am going to submit it now, like this, and if you want I can edit and post the other one, too, in the morning.

working outside takes the crap out of me.


things I would really like to know:
Aimee - you are suspicious of Simenon today but I don't remember you really pushing for him the day before, not in your player post or anything else. Why the change, and are you basing it on the same reasoning you used to think that Paradoxombie was probably scum?

Ripley/Patrick - Is there an out-of-game friendship or something that you two have that keeps tripping me up? Because there's *something* there and is just glaring. I am not saying you two are scum together, but an explanation would be nice.

If I had my druthers I would say it's probably Ripley and Aimee, which, surprisingly, IH also agrees with. This sucks because IH-scum could be buddying up to Simenon town, and I would much prefer that if it comes down to it, IH get lynched over me, but I am pretty good feeling about Ripley definitely being scum and Aimee probably helping out.

[Skruffs]

Okay. I don't have time to look at everything all at once, and this may be considered gross WIFOM, but Ripley, Patrick, and Aimee all agreed that I was the most scummy when this day started. Patrick later shifted his opinion (I'd like to say, but he's so subtle!) and IH outright seemed to state I am town. I personally know I am town (which is a useless statement), so I am going to look at people who jump onto early suspicions of me - which is, namely, Ripley and Aimee. Aimee, especially, but Ripley also to a degree.

Anyways, I'm sorry that my post was huge and vague, I shaved off all hte actual quotes and such because I thought it would be too huge, so I just wrote a summary of it. (Please keep in mind this was at 3 in the morning when I am usually asleep by 12... I actually stayed up way past my bedtime to write the summary post I"ve been promising you guys. Because I <3 u, of course).


I noticed while I was writing this, Ripley's statement about Patrick. I think Patrick suggested a nice thing to mull over - more importantly, what is Your opinion of it, Ripley - and why do you think Patrick suggested it? I'm getting the impression you want to see if this is a possible way to link patrick and IH together. But that's all subliminally based.

[Skruffs]

Gimme a day ehre, I was spending the weekend with loved ones.
Loved ones OTHER than Patrick

[Skruffs]

THis is a very dry game and I've been workign outside - which I have written on the bottom of my thread. I would post something in depth now but to be honest I have not been able to kleep up. This game, posting on it, requires almost full mental power in forming responses, mostly because of all the tension there was just upon my replacement.

I do like Ripley's not so subtle pushing for an 'execution' though, which would result in instant scum win without any townies having misvoted. Dare I hope he's just slipped up?

More in a bit, i am at work an d all that jazz.

[Skruffs]

Okay, this is not a full response, and please don't say "Why are you ignoring this or that because again, this is only a partial response. I have three of the four players who aren't me asking me questions.

Please allow me to reiterate my position in this game. You all have been here since the beginning and your opinions and views have been guided and sculpted by what happened- and how it happened, in real time. I am getting everything all at once in a high pressure end game situation. I don't understand why I am being fossed for pointing out that I see something curious, the same thing I saw in the second game.

I didn't say much about Aimee in my review, perhaps, but there's not a lot to say. She was on a bad wagon, she made a player post, and she came on another bad wagon this morning. She's playing under the radar, as town or scum - which leaves less to be said. Saying that talking about 40% of the players more than one other player doesn't mean anything. If the Ripley/Patrick connection is a possible scum group, I'm going to explore it until I decide what it is.

Regarding IH defending Simenon, if I was scum, I would definitely defend a townie. If nothing else, if I wound up getting lynched, it puts a lot more suspicion on the townie that I was defending, which helps my partner. Secondly, four people on one person means at least one of them is scum and Probably two, so by defending a townie, he actually makes it look like the two are more likely scum buddies. In a sort of reverse psychology, that actually goads the other townies into wanting to lynch the townie more. This has probably been said before.

I agree that Paradoxombie should have claimed to keep himself getting lynched, but the way Patrick phrased it was not really leading up to that. Jordan was asked to claim, I don't remember how much time Paradox had to claim before he was lynched. I'd like to insinuate that some people may not have wanted him to claim, but I'll have to relook to really see who would have benefitted from that. IH-scum, probably , since he was the other wagon, and IH's scum partner.

what started as a decent scum tell seemed to be being exploited into an unnecessary case,

A) Can you explain what you mean here?
B) Where and how did it change from a decent scum tell to an exploited, unnecessary case?

and Simenon is, ugh, Simenon.

C) and can you clarify this?

Jordan's guilty conscience tell over Simenon, asking him if he was the cop, was I think pushed a bit further than it needed to be. I don't know, it was the first wagon of the game. I Wasn't even there so I can't complain about how it was handled.

Simenon, LookingforReality, etc, is Simenon. He's not a well manicured paragon player, but he is trying to make a distinctive mark for himself too in the community. So he plays sometime sin ways that are unconventional. He out thinks himself a lot. He's like Wile E Coyote (only not evil), which is probably why he always hammers me in IRC chat regardles of if I am town or not. Anyways.

[Skruffs]

If you guys want, Simenon could replace back in. I don't know why he left but he told me he could replace back in, if you all want.

[Skruffs]

Ripley, I find it kind of... obtuse of you to bring Simenon's voting pattern (both players being confirmed town) into play in regards to switching his vote to IH - if I remember corerctly, the only 'vote trail' you left was a hammer on a town player.
I also seem to recall that Aimee only voted twice yesterday - once for Paradozombie, and then again, for paradoxombie, while fossing Jordan and Teffc (who is now IH).


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Skruffs]

Please specify, with quotes or post numbers or both, where it was that you thought Simenon passed over an opportunity to shift his vote to you, and also explain why this is so significant to you. Simenon's only votes were for Jordan and Paradoxombie (both town) - why is it such a big deal to you, if you're town, that he chose to vote those particular protown players and not you?

This is the post I was referring to.

I've noticed that your cool facade from yesterday seems to have cracked. You seem to be upset at IH for suggesting I am town - even saying that I am buddying up to him as scum to make him see things my way, but when I suggested a similar thing about you and PAtrick you pretty much tried to slap the idea to the side.

Again, there is a lot more, but I am in a foul mood, so it will wait.

[Skruffs]

HMM. (not helpfu, I know)

[Skruffs]

I'll have a post in this weekend. For some reason I am having a very hard time reading this. MAybe it's flashbacks, I don't know.

[Skruffs]

Simenon starts out looking for trouble, as usual, and jumps on the same thing as I did on Jordan. Is acting weird about not giving his earlier reasons for suspecting Jordan; I don't see how it's going to lead to a slap fight. The fact that there is a counter-wagon of sorts against Simenon based largely on what seems to be Simenon just being Simenon, makes me feel a little better about him. Possible being used as a distraction if Jordan is scum.

Ripley starts off the game with more joking than usual, then a little theory/meta of the previous pie c9's, then talks about Jordan. Plays devils advocate on the Jordan issue, has yet to take a firm stand on anything. I'm still thinking about the validity of his points; they seem logical enough mostly, I'm just not sure if they are right being applied in this case, which to be fair Ripley acknowledged he might be over-thinking. I can see where Simenon is coming from in saying it's Jordan/Ripley, but it's obviously overstated at this stage.

This part of this post reassures me about Patrick (it's at the start of page 4) and reinforces the 'devil's advocate' i was seeing in Ripley. I didn't like how he was kind of goading Patrick's 'scum tell' (which we now know is false) on jordan without actually investing himself in it.


Aight, I've read through again. Third time is the charm.

Aimee's player post is similar to open 19, where she is dead in town. She infuses her opinions about the players in with how they've acted. I also like her comment on Ripley being "objective like scum should be' - I actually agree with that. Good scum want to be pleasant and helpful by day, knowing they won't be killed at night.

I am willing to offer a disclaimer on the following statement. I got in a lot of trouble in PieE7 #2 by not liking the Ripley/Patrick relationship. Neither of them were scum in that game but the way they reacted with each other really tripped my buttons. It happens again on here. Ripley, for example, mentions that Patrick always seems to be town - briefly mentions the first C9, even offers a link to it, but seems to dislike the idea of using Patrick's past behavior as an example in this game. In a lot of the first pages, Ripley plays a gentle devil's advocate - and I think Aimee also pointed this out - by pushing points that Patrick has made. I have not seen Ripley question Patrick in a way that seems suspicious, yet.

Para was a good target for a late day lynch, and IH is the one who really russled up that wagon. I really like Paradoxombie's call out in post 211. I'm curious about that game Jordan was talking about - the one where teffc replaced out and may be scum. When it was talked about, presumably, she was still a live?

Patrick really quieted down after the wagon on jordan because of his tell was replaced by IH on Paradoxombie action. Laziness is what was used, but again, I'm suspicious. More of Ripley than of Patrick. Why hasn't Ripley voted yet??
Right after Patrick says he's bored, Ripley pipes up with almost the exact same thing. Check it out. Note how Patrick responds to the IH/para case by talking only about Paradox.

Ripley sums it up best when he says he's not lurking, he's maintaining an enigmatic silence.

PAtrick pushes in a few posts that jordan or paradoxombie (both power roles who are now dead) should be lynched, or at least claim. (Why in the hell would a power role claim in a game where scum can block AND kill each night?? Patrick should know better than this...) and I am really digging this quote of his:

If Jordan isn't lynched, it seems that Paradoxombie would be the main alternative lynch. I guess I'd go with an Aimee or an IH lynch to avoid a no lynch.

One slightly interesting thing I noted just skimming back was that neither of the vote leaders are voting for each other. I wonder if that means anything. If I see CTD in scum-chat I'll poke him to get clarification on the deadline.

Patrick has not really referred to Ripley directly all game - it's as if the two of them just Assume the other is town and don't bother with each other. Again, this REALLY aggravates me, to the point where I am having a hard time looking at other players..

IH's play hasn't gone well in this game either, though. He posted and squabbled with para for a while, then, well, disappeared. Come back. IH.

Ripley's Post 268 is AWESOME. I hope he continues this train of thought in the following day.

Simenon (me) puts Para at 3, Patrick keeps his vote on the claimed doctor, questioning Simenon's' switch. zombie puts IH at 2 - and both Ripley and Patrick are not voting. Patrick rescinds his vote, and Ripley starts setting up the next day. The way he talks isn't anything more than 'perusing a newspaper' in nature, somehow I get the feeling that he knew no matter who got lynched, he would be okay. Patrick made a lot of fuss of being around for deadline - but if he was, he made no posts to demonstrate it. Certainly no votes, and after some discussing, Ripley finally hammers the cop.

Patrick complains about why Paradox didn't claim - which is stupid. The doc was already being killed for claiming, it wouldn't be hard to block the cop. This was a bad post, a very bad post, one that an experienced PIE-er should have known way before he started fishing for claims. Paradox made the right play in not claiming - all it would do is make the scum's job completely easier, for two nights.

He followed it up by asking Simenon why he voted for town.
If I remember correctly, Patrick abstained from voting either player, so he doesn't 'get' to criticize others for voting badly, does he? No. If he had voted IH, Ripley could have 'chosen' between the two of them, but Patrick writes off Ripley in his first post. Why??!

Ripley's follow up post is even worse. "Well, Patrick, you see, I didn't *like* hammering him, I *thought* he was town, but I just *had* to do it." Why didn't he ask Patrick why he didn't vote?? And immediately after saying "I was sure paradox wasn't scum with anyone but you AND I knew it would be a bad lynch" he agrees with Patrick that Simenon was suspicious for switching to someone he thought of as town, earlier.

Patrick says Simenon is curious. Ripley echoes Patrick. Aimee echoes Ripley and Patrick. Hmm. Ripley and Simenon have an argument, and Simenon finally notices the relationship between Patrick and Ripley. Thank goodness I'm not the only one. He asks Patrick to comment on it, and Patrick, who's avoided directly accusing Ripley the entire game, and who has been trading off arguments with Ripley, for each other, sicne the beginning of day one, against Jordan, says this:

You attacked Ripley. You've asked him questions, made bold declarations in big letters. Why do you want me to answer that? Surely it's for him to respond to. Ok so you've randomly said you're pretty sure I'm scum with Ripley, but I can't give an answer to that unless you actually give a tangible reason. The only part I could see you want me to respond to is that bit at the start where you accuse him of completely ignoring everything you said. Which is an exaggeration.

Direct turn of pace. And yet it doesn't cast suspicion on Ripley, but rather on Simenon for asking him to comment on Ripley.

Ripley's response is that Simenon is ruining the game. To b frank, I've been in Simenon's shoes in those kind of games, and it Sucks to be town and feel like the odds are against you. Ripley, though, is doing Great. The game is great. Sure he hammered someone he thought was town, but Simenon *voted* for him. That Patrick avoided voting at all at deadline never, ever, crossed Ripley's lips, and Ripley has been very astute about his observations with both known towns. Somehow he's trying to push it on to Simenon after confessing to acting in the same way. It's bad. Very bad.

Ripley and Patrick tag team Simenon, without voting. This is Ripley's style anyways - he managed to encourage two wagons day one, on both power roles, without voting except as the last post of the day. As scum, a very finessed style.

Patrick didn't pile on a vote onto Ripley, but Ripley and Patrick were the only two people posting at that time besides Simenon. Ripley's response towards Simenon was that Simenon was acting brashly, with a healthy dose of appeal to emotion. He did not suggest that Simenon was pushing for a quick lynch - he more tried to convince Simenon that voting him could result in a quick lynch. The main focus was that he could be lynched, though, and wasn't really directed towards Simenon's alignment, if you get my drift, which makes me think it was all bluster. Slick, smooth bluster.


Patrick finally questioned Ripley in asking him about Ripley's statements in regards to if Patrick knew that Ripley was suspicious of he and Simenon and was trying to inflame those suspicions. Which is weird, because the meat of that logic is that Ripley may be being misled by Patrick. This also only happened after Simenon pointed out the relationship between the two - the first, if small, example of distancing. Regardless, Patrick's response was polite and curious, and Ripley rather avoided it completely by talking about experienced players on Jordan. I don't follow that, but Patrick did, and dropped it. It was all very courteous and almost scripted, I dunno.


Ah. IH is back. He notes that Ripley avoided Patrick in his suspicion of Simenon. YAY!

More reading, but it seems to be Simenon and Aimee right now. They both took Patrick's lead in casting suspicion over Simenon (me), and I get the impression that they were maybe hoping for a Patrick vote to quick hammer. I could be wrong though. LYLO with five players means anything goes as long as you can convince one townie to misvote.

I condensed it but drew ire for not posting quotes and stuff. That is the extended version. I cleaned it up a bit but it probably goes through things that other people have already addressed. IT is not meant as an attack, merely a point of reference from which I drew my first summary out of.

Point of Note : This is a hard game to follow, for me. Ripley has noted that I easily make lots of excuses as to why I don't post. Oh well, sorry.

Patrick did notice this - questioned it - Ripley ignored it - and Patrick brought it to his attention again.but Ripley's response doesn't make ANY sense. Patrick seems to buy it though, and I wonder if this was some slight British distancing or something.

Skruffs wins this game

Until and unless Skruffs explains these comments of his, which he's been asked to do, the "game" is one to which he alone knows the rules. Do

you

understand what he meant? Or did this just strike you as a promising remark by Skruffs that quite probably meant something or other, so you just decided to throw a cheer in its direction, in line with your policy of blindly supporting everything said or done by Simenon/Skruffs, most especially if it attacks Ripley?

He said I won because I was referring to British distance techniques.

Skruffs, you also have Aimee/Ripley as your first choice, and Patrick thinks it's a good possibility. Whether or not you believe I was actively trying to shift the vote here, don't you think that's a pretty unlikely post for me to have made if I were scum with Aimee? (Incidentally, IH has never managed to explain convincingly how he thought it was scummy of me to be shifting the vote away from Jordan and Para, but that's another question...)

I really have no idea what the proper response to this would be. You are asking me to Meta, which, I can not force myself to do with any degree of certainty. Metas that I use will be metas I make up myself.

Here is my statements about players:
Ripley - Cheerful all day one and most of day two, but has started getting quite irritable. Maybe this is because nobody thought Ripley was scum day one, and he doesn't like the attention on him like this day two. That would explain the hesitancy to vote. I'm curious as to if Ripley asked for a claim from Paradoxombie before he hammered - I don't have the time right now to go check. Ripley didn't switch any votes day one, because he didn't make any, except for the one to end the day. To go after other people based on their vote trails, that suggests, to me, that it was intentionally vote-lurking. So Ripley's behavior suggests to me that he was enjoying this game with all it's dead power roles and it's one-misvote-to-win setting, whereas maybe the rest of us (esp Simenon) was not in such a good mood.

Aimee - Aimee happily added her agreement to the Simenon is scum. This was a mistake. You have to change your behavior to match the game's situations - something that works day one does not work day two. Now one of her defenses is that IH and Simenon are scum because they are defending each other, and because Simenon changed his vote over to Paradox instead of IH. AS compared to Aimee, who... didn't change her vote away from the power role she had it sitting on all if not most of day one. Again, staying low and picking at people who make the most noise.

IH - IH does not strike me as the scummy IH I saw in a very similar situation in a newbie game. I had mishammered day one and had the entire game of people suspicious of me. (I was a townie). IH, in that game, kinda chilled out, not really defending or attacking, and kind of added small tidbits of fuel to an already raging fire. I don't see that in this game. In this game, I see a bouncy, energetic IH (in the posts he makes) that is actually taking risks in saying one person is clear vs others. Of course no two games are the same.

Patrick - Patrick seems to be considering all angles, and I am very glad he at least acknowledged my fears about him and Ripley - even if they are scum buddies ( which I think less likely now ) it was good tht he didn't attack me for even thinking such a thing, or whatnot. We must all be vigilant.



Lastly, and I couldn't help but bring this up.

Patrick, you mentioned Tapioca Mafia earlier. In a way that game was the converse of Pie C9 2,

where I thought Skruffs was innocent,

and am thus having more trouble with his behavior in this game than you. You thought he was scum in that game and say that's caused to to recalibrate your expectations of him. In Tapioca, you had Aimee pegged as town but I was suspicious of her. And now in this game you're finding her suspicious. Maybe because I didn't get the strong protown vibe you did from her in Tapioca, I'm not noticing the same difference as you are.

versus this:

I had a look at that game I mentioned and found

I'd actually spent the end of Day 1 arguing vehemently with Skruffs, who'd replaced in a deadline situation and was posting a lot of excuses and generally finding reasons not to actually read the game, although he found the time to make lengthy posts about how he didn't have time to read the game, and for this and other reasons I thought he was scummy as hell.

Skruffs would probably dispute this account of his behavior, but actually it does show that like you, I've previously found Skruffs to be very scummy when he was actually town (although not for the same reasons as in this game).

Which is it?

Mod-edit: fixed quote tags

[Skruffs]

Darn. Mod, could you fix my quote thing in the last paragraph there? The ["Ripley"] should be "Ripley"].

[Skruffs]

THe connection is almost entirely from your interactions day one.
Your actions today, PAtrick, helped to dispel that.

[Skruffs]

PAtrick, I will reply, but the huge post-quote at the beginning of my big post was the long version of my initial post. I didn't mean for it to rehash old things, I Was more trying to provide a more detailed reasoning for the 'vague suggestions' that ripley was angry at me about. IT was NOT Meant to be a series of fresh attacks - I have changed my mind about your call for someone to claim. IT would have rendered the role useless BUT it would have maybe avoided a mislynch. I do agree with you on that. SOrry if that upset you or skewed your view on me but I Was honestly trying to give Ripley what he was requesting when he dismissed my critique of his game style.

Aimee - It seems more and more that it is you and Ripley vs me and IH. Patrick seems to be becoming the swing vote today, but that doesn't make him town or scum in my eyes. Lastly - you weren't hunting scum if you were trying to get a (now) known power role lynched.

Ripley - No, I believe they both refer to open 18. [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=422 You later clarified it yourself by posting a direct link to PieC9. [/url[ (click link for proof). The first one states the game title right in the block, the second one you clarified for patrick. ??? So is this a huge slip or what?
I don't see how you can say that my only goal today has been to get you lynched. You wanted me to post my opinions, and apparently, when I do, they are the wrong ones. Sorry!

Lastly - PAtrick - knowing that that big quote was a much earlier argument - and that my views have changed somewhat - what would you like me to reply to?

[Skruffs]

I think I've played too many games. That was the game I was a cop and we won. My only successful win as a power role!
My apologies. I associate one game by C9 and the other by "the game where SV was scum".

So I was town in all three games - and I'm sure if you had lived in the other one, you would have disagreed with me, because, well, frankly, you are scared by my brawny intellect. *flex* don't worry though, it's okay.


Moving on, did you want to comment on my indication of Patrick as a swing vote?
Do you think it's more likely that patrick is scum, or town?

[Skruffs]

Patrick - I didn't mean to imply - because I don't feel - that the scum could be considered all one group or another. It's possible that one of each 'group' is scum, I was more referring to the sides that are taking place.

[Skruffs]

That wasn't evidence against you. You were supposed to mock me for it. Games are supposed to be fun - and I pointed out that you seemed to be in a good mood when this game started. Now you are not so happy - why?

I'm not sure how I've treated you 'unfairly' - While my suspicions are on you more than others, those suspicions do not stem from a bias that I brought into the game. They come from what I have seen in the game - just as your suspicions towards me have been, right?

I don't disregard content, but this is a game about discussion - and more importantly, it's about convincing other people you are right, regardless of your position in the game.

I apologize if you think I am intentionally ignoring content you say, but I have been quite slack in getting involved in this game, and usually the things you have said have in general been replied to by the time I look at them. So my responses are much more about cleaning up - watching people's 'faces' that they show to the game.

Right now, you are showing a face that I show often as town and that is generally called the "poor me" face. And I hate it when people use that against me, they did it to me in C&H where I am confirmed town and in Open 17 where I am still alive, and if you are in a similar position as I was, it's that you feel you are being bounced around like a bean bag and being ignored and degraded upon.

But you can se how I picked up on "The turn" that you referred to in your second paragraph? How the game doesn't seem to be as exciting for you anymore?

[Skruffs]

I don't find it all that exciting either, Ripley, hence the not-very-frequent posting, at first. However, I got over myself, and now I am playing. And when I play just to play, it becomes more interesting.

Patrick - C&H has more than enough "Skruffs is stupid" jokes to last four mini games.

[Skruffs]

I agree.

Mod - prods and/or replacements?

[Skruffs]

The game really IS dying, now.
So we should probably get some one lynched to either continue it or end it. I don't like the idea of abandoning it, though.

[Skruffs]

hooo crap, there goes my only friend.
Hi zindaras.

[Skruffs]

I think he was asking more for things to keep notes of. IE, topics of conversations that his opinion, now, would be good to have.

[Skruffs]

Same goes to you, Aimee.

[Skruffs]

I absolutely refuse to let a game die. I'd rather lose it than abandon it, because, there's been a lot of time and effort into it.

IF one of the mafiates want to just abandon the game, they should vote themselves, without revealing their accompolice.

I know I would be grateful. ^.^

[Skruffs]

I would really like to vote Aimee or Ripley right now. Prolly Aimee though. IT's what I want, but it's not responsible to do so.

[Skruffs]

Vote : Ripley

It's been nearly a week. Nobody seems to have any interest in this game, and Ripley wasn't quick lynched the first time. If I get counter lynched for voting, then at least it will be game over, but otherwise, this is the only way I see it moving forward.

I will be checking the thread to see if anyone responds, of course.

Ripley, it's either you or Aimee, and Aimee has more people against her right now, which makes me second guses myself about her.

[Skruffs]

Yeah, I know.
And I am also aware the quick lynch doesn't mean anything - the vote was at another slow period and was not for very long.
I am glad you are still paying attention to the game, though, Patrick.

[Skruffs]

Unvote

Now I'm nervous because Patrick may have been signalling to his co hort that he is there and ready to hammer

[Skruffs]

Well I posted a week ago, and Aimee and Zindaras had both promised summaries, while Ripley had posted waning enthusiasm. Nobody posted in a week, so I had to stir the pot. Ripley seemed safer than Aimee, due to precedent.

Ripley - I'm not sure, about which side is easier to replace into or not. I enjoy the challenge of either side. It really depends on the situation - I've never been lynched as mafia after replacing in as one, which can not be said the same as townie. I actually have a pretty bad track record for replacing in to a townie position in games - I either get nightkilled or lynched very quickly, or I make it to the end. Summarizing is easy regardless of alignment, and is more influenced by the number of games you are in. In large games, I don't even read through until the 'next day', unless I'm in lylo situations.

If Zindaras was lynched and turnd up scum, I can understand there being a lot of suspicion of me, since IH was the only person to have my back when I was under pressure. This in turn pulled aat least a bit of suspicion on to him.

I don't know who Aimee's partner would be, based on her interactions with others.. did she follow ripley or patrick more? Certainly not Zindaras...
Patrick would lead back to Ripley, too, mostly.

Hmmm...

[Skruffs]

Urm, try to look at it more objectively. There is no hard case against anyone, specifically, and the game is on the verge of abandonment. (Maybe that is teffc's curse?)

I was going to vote someone, I knew that. You hadn't been quick lynched when simenon voted you. It's'a nulltell, yes, but there is also the history of it having happened before. Plus, with zindaras gone, that left only a patrick and aimee scum team that i'd'have to worry about, rather than the much loathed possibility of ripley and patrick on aimee.

[Skruffs]

fos - aimee

you'll be around before then, though - or are you insinuating that you have no intentions of being active before we get close to deadline?
scuuuum! SCUCUUMM!!

[Skruffs]

Patrick - where did I say that it wasn't a possibility?

[Skruffs]

PAtrick - Is there some rule that Aimee would only follow her scum partner around? She tends to agree with Ripley more than with an yone else - but, similarly, IH tended to agree with me a lot more than most others. Does that mean if one of us is scum, the other is? No, not true. That statement was from a paragraph of musings about who was most closely tied to each other.

[Skruffs]

Of course... if we lynch Aimee... we don't have to worry about her internet access... and either the game will end with a scum win or we go to night happy. Except for RIpley, who will be all >.> and <.<

[Skruffs]

I'm all for going scum hunting, but, I've kind of already blown my load in trying to scum hunt in this game, and nothing came of it. Zindaras is.. meandering at best.. and aimee is the same. Ripley is bored, as is patrick. I think that one of the mafiates should say "I'm scum", and, in a very cool out of game mood, sacrifice themselves so that the other four players have the chance to continue playing. I know I've said this before, but, really, if you are bored you might as well end it for yourself so that you can delete the thread from your watched list and focus on 'better' games.

[Skruffs]

I wonder why they wanted to extend the deadline.

Vote : ....

hmm.

[Skruffs]

No way.

vote : ripley

Third time's'the charm. I've never abandoned a game and i don't intend to, now. Either we win, or lose.

[Skruffs]

Patrick - do you think I am scum?
I do not think you are scum.

[Skruffs]

Please, I have to urge that someone vote someone. I will hammer either of Aimee or Ripley if that's what it comes down to, but, I'd prefer Ripley, and I am for sure not wanting to lose by default.

We have NINE HOURS.

Mod : Please prod everyone

[Skruffs]

My vote seems to be safe there.
ZIndaras, you ignore the game fore a week or so and then place a post

mostly

against my predecessor and try to get me to unvote Ripley? Fossy, fossy.

[Skruffs]

Are you basing that on IH's backing me up when Ripley/Aimee were attacking me at the start of hte day?
Because Zindaras is not nearly as supportive of me.

[Skruffs]

No, patrick, the point doesn't hold true. You said that Simenon could have voted either because they were both at two. Only one was at two, though, and that is the person he voted for - if IH went to two shortly thereafter, that's still after Simenon decided his vote, which doesn't make sense.

Besides, if you are going to look at voting history as reasons to judge people, you have basically cleared Ripley, who, as stated before, made sure to only vote once in the entire day - a hammer on Paradoxombie.

Here's what happened so everyone doesn't have to reread, starting when IH replaced into the game:


JordanA24 (2): Simenon, Patrick
IH (1): Jordan24
Patrick (1): IH

IH replaces in, and unvotes
ih votes paradox
aimee votes paradox

JordanA24 (2): Simenon, Patrick
Paradoxombie (2) : IH, aimee
IH (1): Jordan24

simenon switches to paradoxombie
ripley mentions speedlynch

JordanA24 (1): Patrick
Paradoxombie (2) : IH, aimee, simenon
IH (1): Jordan24

paradox votes IH

JordanA24 (1): Patrick
Paradoxombie (3) : IH, aimee, simenon
IH (2): Jordan24, paradox

patrick unvotes jordan

Paradoxombie (3) : IH, aimee, simenon
IH (2): Jordan24, paradox

ripley hammers paradoxombie

Paradoxombie (4) : IH, aimee, simenon, ripley
IH (2): Jordan24, paradox


SO patrick, I have ato ask why you are so suspicious of Simenon for voting Paradoxombie when someone else (you or ripley) could have voted IH to put the two wagons at even votes?

minor fos: Patrick

[Skruffs]

Rather, simenon was on one of two wagons that were at two already - voting paradoxombie moved one wagon to 3 and dropped the other one.

[Skruffs]

No, patrick, the point doesn't hold true. You said that Simenon could have voted either because they were both at two. Only one was at two, though, and that is the person he voted for - if IH went to two shortly thereafter, that's still after Simenon decided his vote, which doesn't make sense.

IH did get to two votes shortly after, and at that point Simenon could have voted him, putting him at 3 instead of Paradoxombie. His reason for not doing so was that he thought IH looked even more protown than Paradoxombie; but I suspect that may be made up. What doesn't make sense to you?

Yes, but You could have voted IH, too. Or Ripley could have. Etc, etc. Why is Simenon not changing his vote to IH somehoe more suspicious than anyone else not changing their vote to IH?

Besides, if you are going to look at voting history as reasons to judge people, you have basically cleared Ripley, who, as stated before, made sure to only vote once in the entire day - a hammer on Paradoxombie.

What the hell? How did you work this one out exactly? Why would a lack of votes be used to clear someone?

It wouldn't, unless you are going to use someone's voting pattern to decide they are guilty. Someone with no voting pattern (Ripley) would therefore have no trackable pattern with which to judge him by, and thus, you can get no read on him. Thus, you can't really use voting as a judge in deciding his alignment. Follow?

SO patrick, I have ato ask why you are so suspicious of Simenon for voting Paradoxombie when someone else (you or ripley) could have voted IH to put the two wagons at even votes?

Explained above, his explanation for voting Paradoxombie over IH looked like something he made up after the fact. I think "so suspicious" is exagerating it though. I noted it as a possible connection between him and IH.

But if that's the case, what about Aimee and IH's votes on Paradox?They came almost back to back on each other.

Ripley - Nope. But I'm pretty certain you are scum, also, more so than most others. All the reasons have been discussed before - I don't know who is your partner, I'm leaning towards Aimee, but it could be Zindaras and Aimee, or you and Patrick. I feel PAtrick is town but it's strange that he's started picking at me so soon after Zindaras did and so close to deadilne.

[Skruffs]

Do not let scum autowin. Loss through mislynch is prefrable to loss through nolynch.

Ripley's comments about petrick may be laying ground for wifom in the morning. Patrick/ripley pairing was first suspicion, not completely written out. I really hope all townies put a vote on someone by deadline...

Please let it be ripley.

[Skruffs]

Interesting to note:
Patrick says ripley/aimee scum combo is possible, but doesn't help the wagon on ripley, but rther on his opartner.
Suspicious?
Zindaras, aimee, patrick, unless you make your own wagon fast OR help me with mine, 2 of you are going to lose the game.

[Skruffs]

Simulpost whoo

[Skruffs]

Well, aimee has voted for zindaras. Avoided the possibility of wagoning ripley... Patrick and rip did not hamme zindaras when they could, but,

Ripley, if I am scum with someone, why is nobody else (ie scumpartner) trying to overtly or non overtly.rise more suspicion of you to help out? Goes back to aimee, drawing suspicion to herself/zindaras instead. Looking at schematics, I wonder why aimee avoided me and ripley fight as well as patrick vote to vote zindaras saying that is her only target for the day.

Aimee was at top of list but if ripley Is town, scum did not take oppurtinity to push case against him. Rip pushing me/aimee scumteam instead while saying patrick wins if scum. If scum, (Prob not), patrick winds up having suspicion tomorrow. If ripley is setting up wifom for tomorrow if he gets lynched, means lynching him results in a tomorrow, means he is scum.
Aimee's refusal to vote me or him means she likely partner.

Sorry for logic, if flawed, genuine opinion.

[Skruffs]

I am posting from my cell phone, hence hectic grammar.

Ripley - how close to deadline did jordan claim doctor? Claimed doctors don't get lynched, period. How long should I have waited for a counterclaim? Why should I have waited for a counterclaim? Why would a real doctor counterclaim?

You say that simenon wasn't around at deadline, which is suspicious, and you say that simenon moving his vote off a claimed doctor without waiting closer to deadline is suspicious. What if simenon knew he wouldn't be around at deadline and thus took measures to help protect a claimed doctor while he could?

And again, using someone's voting records as grounds of suspicion, is suspicious, coming from someone who's only vote day 1 was to hammer an unclaimed cop.

I am trying to be around.
I am sure of ripley, only semisure of aimee, less sure of pat/zindaras.

[Skruffs]

Ripley, weren't you all mad at me earlier in the day for analyzing your game-personality instead of scum tells?
Did you miss patrick's vote on aimee and aimee's vote on zindaras?

Aimee, if scum, is not voting ripley because all three townies have to vote scum to win today, if scum don't bus, As has been previously mentioned.

Aimee, is scum, is avoiding bussing her buddy or being connected with him by avoiding the me/ripley thing. So I would be okay hammering her at this point. Ripley. Is. More. Of a sure thing, though.

[Skruffs]

I do like how ripley is saying my posts are incomprehensible while 'in a completely unrelated manner' defending against my points as if they were his. Own.

[Skruffs]

If zindaras is town and is 'done' with his vote on AImee, or if AImee is town and is 'done' with her vote on Zindaras, then Ripley can't be lynched, and they've lost us the game, unless we lynch the one of them that isn't town. Guh.

Mod : Prods on everyone?

[Skruffs]

That's not surprising...
I don't think any of us doubted this was coming.
Obviously I'm going to get an immediate vote from scum for not being on the final wagon on Aimee.

[Skruffs]

So. Zindaras. I am willing to consider you cleared, due to aimee and you not hopping on to lynch ripley while you could.

[Skruffs]

Lol mod replacements plz

[Skruffs]

I will say that an aimee/ih+zin scumpair did have the chance to vote ripley all day. Was there ever a time you were both on at once?

[Skruffs]

Well, the reason I'm not immediately voting you Ripley is because I am not sure why Patrick was killed instead of me or you.

[Skruffs]

I will be honest...
Zindaras, if I was scum, I would have killed you. You know that. It's in my track record.
Barring killing you, I would probably kill Ripley - Patrick was more suspicious of you than he was of me, and I complained all day yesterday about how Ripleya nd Patrick were buddy buddy - Aimee and Ripley were kind of buddy buddy as well.

Similarly - Ripley really had no reason to kill Patrick, because Patrick was mostly suspicious of you, Zindaras.

The thing about Patrick is that pretty much Everyone agreed that Patrick was town. I'm guessing that is why he was killed. If Ripley was scum, why would he leave me aroudn, when I stated yesterday that I wuold vote him the final day if alive? I am pretty sure I vocally said that. THe only reason he would do that would be if he was pretty sure he could convince you, Zindaras, to hammer me.

Ripley, I may be willing to consider Zindaras cleared, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't retrace my steps before actually making a decision.

THe other thing is that Ripley set the case out against me at the end of yesterday, whereas my case against him was during mostly the whole day. WAs it because Ripley had decided he was going to bus Aimee and thus wanted to lay some seed on the ground to go off of the next day?

It's kind of confusing, but not in a frustrating way.
Zindaras, don't expect to go far today by lurking. Aimee buttered up to Ripley and IH buttered up to me.

[Skruffs]

I didn't doubt it.
And he was the obvious kill, but from my perspective, he's' not necessarily the person I Would kill.
Killing an obvious townie helps the mafia make it to a 1 out of 3 chance of being lynched. But, if someone is obviously anti-someone else (like me and you are against each other) it might be worth giong to a 1 out of 2 chance to make it look like someone else had done the kill to get rid of their enemy.


THe thing is Ripley, I think you posted about me the way you did because you had already decided that Aimee was going to be lynched - you knew Patrick would be killed - so you decided to try and prepare for the next day by stating who you thought her scum partner was?
And although I am pretty sure I stated I Would hammer her, you made a point of saying that I wouldn't, when you did. Implying that I Was reluctant to hammer a scum buddy, when that is not the case. I Was saying yesterday that someone needed to be hammered, when you were sayign the game should be abandoned.

Yes, I think if Aimee and Zindaras were a scum team, they Could have hammered you - IH pulled a lot of flak for defending me when you and Aimee were ready to lynch me in the beginning of the day, though. Would he do that as town because he honestly thought Simenon was just a goofy player, or would he do that as scum because it helps distract him from his scumpartner Aimee?

Also, Zindaras didn't really argue against Aimee when she voted him, he just returned vote. HE didn't seem to care if she was maybe a townie or not.


Do I know who is scum, no, but that is what is on my mind regarding the two of you.

[Skruffs]

I agree with you, Ripley, you would have had the most to gain by keeping him alive.
But then again, mayeb zindaras is just playing off of my vote on you from yesterday and me sayign that I would vote you right off the bat today
I guess you have to udnerstand the psychology of each player to understand why whoever did what they did, did it.

You, Aimee(scum) and patrick(town) all very suspicious of Aimee. Aimee was at first ready to vote me, just going along with the flow, but then decided to put a vote on Zindaras. So, knowing Aimee - did she do that to try and distance from Zindaras and make it look like she was your partner, or did she do it because she thought Zindaras could actually be lynched?

Patrick was the only person on Aimee's lynch who actually made a decision to vote her. You've cast two votes, btoh hammers. PResumably, wether me or Zindaras voted the other, you would hammer them, too.
Zindaras counter voted as an OMGUS. ANd you made a point of saying that I couldn't be relied on (or whatnot) when you voted Aimee.


I voted you instead of Aimee at that point because while I was pretty sure you were scum, I wasn't completely sure about Aimee. The reasoning could not be more openly explained. When everyone is more suspicious of someone in a game where 40% of the people involved are scum, (like they were of simenon at the beginning of hte game), I am less likely to 'go with the crowd' in decisions I make.

Also: You seem to be wholly focussed on putting negative attention on me. IS there nothing about Zindaras you wish to examine?

[Skruffs]

COme on ZInday, come on Ripley, the game is almost over. Don't give up, now.

[Skruffs]

I Agree. And I don't know if he's being active in the site.
I'll be voting relatively soon, one way or the other, and the game will either be over or it won't.

[Skruffs]

i will be gone from Thursday through Monday. I will try to keep up to date but I will not be able to quick hammer or anything like that, so if you are worried about that, don't be. ANyways, just thought I'd let you all know.

Zindaras, post or die, seriously.

[Skruffs]

it's not that patsy had a clear enemy, it's that other players did, except you.

[Skruffs]

So are you saying you think I killed patrick?
Sorry that I am asking for clarification, but your posts are sporadic and tightly parsed.

[Skruffs]

K.
Well.
I would like to vote Ripley, but I feel that both of you are probably more likely to vote me than each other. If I vote RIpley, I feel that I will probably be, in turn, quickly lynched.
ANy one care to contend that?

[Skruffs]

Neither of you have interest.

Mod : Prods or Replacements please? Or just modkill both of them?

[Skruffs]

I mean that I feel I am the more vulnerable townie between the three of us, one of whom is a scum. If I were toa ttack, it would be easy for the person I attaack to turn it on me, and that would lead to a scum win. You two haven't even talked to each other since hte game started.

Go ahead and look: You've both replied to me, and not at all to each other. Because neither of you are discussing hte other except in response to something I say.
I'd really like to hear you guys at least discuss each other.

[Skruffs]

I will note that I was voting Ripley for a while yesterday, which would suggest that Zindaras is less likely scum than he is.

[Skruffs]

Okay.

I want ot vote ripley but if Zindaras is scum, he'll just hammer, and will have won.
I want to vote Zindaras jsut to preserve my pride, but theres no reasont o take BOTH of us down just for some petty off-game differences.

None of you have ANY INTEREST in this game, OBVIOUSLY.

[Skruffs]

Screw it.

vote : ripley

I actually think that ripley is more likely scum, and the prolongued vote on him day 2 by me without anyone else trying to exploit it (aimee)
Trumps aimee's possible bussing of zindaras late in the day.

You both have identical playstyles today(none), so, if, Zindaras hammers you as scum, ripley, you have yourself to blame. I thought it was possible zindaras left me and you and killed patrick to leave you 'without friends', i've suggested that, neither of you thought it was likely.

[Skruffs]

HAppy birthday CTD.

...


Just modkill them?
Town win through apathy?

[Skruffs]

*shrugs*
I had nothing to go on. You were both avoiding the game entirely, nobody would replace in. AT least it's over now.

[Skruffs]

I mean I could not actually win this game, because Ripley wouldn't have hammered you anyways. Not because he thought you were town, but because he didn't care enough to vote.

[Skruffs]

Yeah. It made more sense that Zindaras would leave me and Ripley alive to keep attention away from himself, and I pointed that out, but nobody else was interested in the game, anymore. I wound up voting Ripley because I figured it would make Zindaras feel better to kill me than it would RIpley.