Newbie 1741 - Game Over

[nn30]

Additionally I don't think scum would pretend to screw up the setup.

Now she's also an uncountered PR. This adds to my top townread status.

[Papa Zito]

Thanks for pointing out 495, there's a lot there so I'll look into that later. Do you have no concerns that the 3 pushes you mentioned there all happened Day 1 and all happened (from your perspective obv let's not play games) on townies?

Additionally I don't think scum would pretend to screw up the setup.

Now she's also an uncountered PR. This adds to my top townread status.

I'm not sure how your first bit points to alignment. I'd like you to think through the second again.

[nn30]

Thanks for pointing out 495, there's a lot there so I'll look into that later. Do you have no concerns that the 3 pushes you mentioned there all happened Day 1 and all happened (from your perspective obv let's not play games) on townies?

Re: Day 1 -

There weren't really any strong pushes on day two. Algebra lynch was a foregone conclusion by the time we got to day 2. So no it doesn't bother me that they all happened on day 1.

Re: Pushing on only townies -

She doesn't have to be

right

to be scumhunting. Though I do see your point - scum "accidentally" only pushing other townies is a possibility. I just don't think that's what's going on here. Her pushes felt genuine to me.

[nn30]

1) I'm not sure how your first bit points to alignment. 2)I'd like you to think through the second again.

1) Think of it in terms of expected outcome. Let's say scum!Titus pretends to not understand the setup.

Outcome options:

a) It will be pointed out to her that she got the setup wrong. The plan, which hinges on her misinterpretation of the setup, is not enacted by town. People interpret her misunderstanding as NAI.
b) It will be pointed out to her that she got the setup wrong. The plan, which hinges on her misinterpretation of the setup, is not enacted by town. People interpret her misunderstanding as a scumtell.
c) It will be pointed out to her that she got the setup wrong. The plan, which hinges on her misinterpretation of the setup, is not enacted by town. People interpret her misunderstanding as a town tell.
d) People don't call her on her misunderstanding, her plan gets enacted, but the remaining town PR doesn't claim.
e) People don't call her on her misunderstanding, her plan gets enacted, and the remaining town PR claims.

Where's the upside? How does this play benefit a Scum!Titus? I see very little to gain from intentionally screwing up the setup.

2) Ahh, I see what you mean. There's no guarantee of a town PR still being in play. Scum!Titus could be lying about the BP since she would know the setup. At best un-countered PR is a 50/50 shot here.

[Empoof]

Hey I have time to read through everything now while I have some pasta

Current gut says Titus still scummy (as stated earlier) but I want to back it up with more than just her bad questions D2. It really bothered me when she asked if I wanted to lynch papa over algebra.

nn your own point c is how it would benefit Titus. I view misrepping the setup as NAI, in case that wasn't clear.

We're all writing off Morning Tweet as town (including me) which worries me. I want thoughts from Morning Tweet.

Side note that papa post that triggered me is no longer garbage with v/v wagons.

[nn30]

@empoof - I should have made this more clear in my post. Point C is indeed a benefit, but I don't think it's the likely outcome. There are more negatives to the play than positives.

[Morning Tweet]

All right, someone should claim BP regardless of which setup we have. (With the exception of scum opting to not play the fake claim in setup 1). So Titus' claim really shouldn't change anything, but it's making me paranoid anyway.

Titus and nn townread each other, while Papa, Empoof and Titus all townread me.

@Papa Zito, why am I townread higher than Empoof? (as he's the second townie outside your scumpile)

We're all writing off Morning Tweet as town (including me) which worries me.

@Empoof Same question, why're you writing me off as town?

[Papa Zito]

Where's the upside? How does this play benefit a Scum!Titus? I see very little to gain from intentionally screwing up the setup.

Who said it was intentional? She came into the game thinking she was the IC so clearly she's off her meds. The

real

point here is she was attempting to paint herself as cleared.

@Papa Zito, why am I townread higher than Empoof? (as he's the second townie outside your scumpile)

I don't think I said I was townreading Empoof.

Perhaps this illuminates my major issue with this lylo better.

I can't find anything in your gameplay that really points to a scum agenda. I also can't find much that potentially links you to another player. The only nagging doubt I have is why you haven't really acted on your Day 2 posting despite the algebra flip. So if you are scum here then congrats please play more games.

[Morning Tweet]

What I mean is there's 5 players, you're scum reading nn and Titus, leaving Empoof and I outside of that pile. Do you have an opinion on Empoof, or is he similar to me?

Problem with day two was that legitimately everyone (besides me) was certain algebra was scum and were spending a lot of time debating who the scum partner is. My logic that 1-2 scum was on the shadow wagon is confirmed but useless now that Dunny's dead.

[Papa Zito]

No I'm saying I essentially scumread all three and I'm desperately trying to sort them with all the various reading things I'm doing.

I'm referring to your NK analysis earlier in the day.

[Morning Tweet]

Ah, I see now. Is it better to look for a townread to PoE the scumteam, or to just look for connections between two of them?

IIRC my night kill theory was based on how an algebra scumteam would not kill Arona, even as WIFOM. The problem I recognized which made me less sure later in the day was that I didn't see a clear reason why Arona would be killed by anyone, period. My best idea was that there were scum on the shadow wagon and they wanted to make sure algebra was lynched no matter what the next day by killing a shadow voter, but that's not overly convincing.

[Papa Zito]

Your night kill theory (and I'm doing this from memory after reading it yesterday) was they went after someone on the shaddowez wagon because they wanted to leave the algebra voters intact to promote the mislynch. Given the flip I'd assume this lent more credence to your theory but you seem to have forgotten completely about it OR I've lost my mind and I'm actually scrawling ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics on the walls of my padded cell right now in chocolate pudding.

(warning theory etc) Good town play is not limited to looking for scumspects but also seeking out other townies to work with. Some players even prioritize the latter over the former.

I haven't scumread you all game and you haven't really done anything to change that here so /shrug

[nn30]

Who said it was intentional?

Me, mostly.

Still - I also don't believe scum would accidentally screw it up either. They're more likely to cross their i's and dot their t's with any post.

She came into the game thinking she was the IC so clearly she's off her meds. The real point here is she was attempting to paint herself as cleared.

I mean, you did that as well on day one ("I'm the towniest town that ever towned!")

[Xalxe]

Vote Count 3.2

Time sours, rots, renews, sours again.

Not Voting

: Empoof, nn30, Papa Zito, Titus, Morning Tweet

With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-11-06 09:27:10)

[Morning Tweet]

Whether my theory's correct or incorrect, I can see there must be at least 1 scum on the shadow wagon, anyway (2 if nn is town). Doesn't really help me anymore.

I understand the importance of working with townies, to lynch scum today all three townies have to be on the same page.

What I was worried about is if Titus' claim is true, and Empoof + yourself are looking to start swaying me to help mislynch her. Paranoid? Yes. I don't want to be the townie that voted with mafia and lost us the game. I am feeling better, but I'd like to hear more from the others as well.

Pedit: Where did Papa do that, nn? I recall Papa being widely townread, but did he really try to deceive us into thinking he's cleared? (as Titus would be doing right now if she's scum)

[Papa Zito]

I mean, you did that as well on day one ("I'm the towniest town that ever towned!")

is this real life

What I was worried about is if Titus' claim is true, and Empoof + yourself are looking to start swaying me to help mislynch her. Paranoid? Yes. I don't want to be the townie that voted with mafia and lost us the game.

That's certainly possible and entirely fair.

I'm not actually trying to sway anyone to anything atm. I'm answering your questions cuz they deserve to be answered and I'm trying to get in nn30's head because his Titus read makes 0 sense outside the obvious.

Oh crap I have to read that post brb.

[Empoof]

Alright I said I would read yesterday but I didn't. I've been staring at the Xalxe iso vote counts for a while today. Papa, where would you say your effective vote was during D1 algebra vs nn? I remember you saying it was on Titus early in the day, and then you FTRd algebra near the end of the day. I know this was a while ago but I'm trying to see where your thinking was during this time.

Titus, can you brief me on why you wanted papa over algebra yesterday and expand on your intent on papa today (more than "white knight")

Morning Tweet you have incredibly townie tone. You've also been showing a gamesolving mindset with good consistency. I'm hyper paranoid this f5, and I could see you on any scum team atm. nn is least likely as your partner with what I read in your iso but the lack of commitment from choosing a wagon during algebra/nn is in my notes.

[Papa Zito]

Ok you went and made me make a big post I hope you're proud of yourself.

Here are some more examples of Titus scum hunting which reinforce my point.

Posts 15, 19, 23, 74, 76, 87, 123, 175 are all examples of Titus suspecting, voting, pushing or defending her suspicion of me.

Posts 59, 61 63, 67, 163, 168, 251, 290, 293, 431 same but Algebra.

Posts 268, 287, 328, 345, 357 same but Shadow.

If there was a scale from "stroking your beard, smoking a cigar, and saying 'hmm... interesting'" to "firing a blowhorn while pointing at your top suspect" Titus would be a champion of the latter.

Spoiler: Tvn

15 - This was not scumhunting, 15 is what earned my vote. You can't sit there and lecture someone (mental headspace=this person requires learning) and then vote for them for that very same thing in the same damn post.
19 - As I said in 20 does not compute given ^
23 - Simply bonkers false.
74 - I questioned this in 75 because makes 0 sense given the complete lack of pressure on you when that post was made + town PRs also have a self-preservation motive so it's a wash
76 - A continuation of the same nonsense
87 - Titus goes off the rails on this "sorting process" nonsense. The problem with this post is

she never attempts to sort you at all

.
123 - How is this scumhunting when she isn't attempting to ferret out motivations, she's just flat-out assigning them to you? In what universe is it required that your vote be on a particular player?
175 - A four word answer to a question. I don't see how this demonstrates scumhunting.

Spoiler: TvA

59 - this is a naked vote. So ok I guess.
61 - This is one of those classic deflections. 'I did a bad thing but someone else did too so it's ok'. Also she calls algebra a newbie when he's an SE which is ???
63 - Again, Titus is assigning motivation to someone, not seeking it out. 'X made a post. This means Y. I hath spoken.'
67 - This is a worthless post. "Arona, are you algebra's buddy?" doesn't do anything.
163 - I couldn't find what this referred to. Grundy's vote prior to this post was on you agreeing with shaddowez and algebra.
168 - I'm glad you pointed out this post because it completely flies in the face of 23. 169 grundy shows that her point against algebra is false.
251 - ...this is a defense to Shaddowez, not an attack on Algebra.
290 - This is a statement of intent to vote algebra the next day. This isn't scumhunting.
293 - same
431 - This is ok if you're into the whole looking for pairs before flips thing (and we've all learned this lesson this game haven't we).

Spoiler: TvS

268 - Another example of Titus assigning motivations to people instead of discovering them.
287 - Second verse, same as the first.
328 - How is this scumhunting at all?
345 - His post was bad yes. (they didn't get much better spoiler)
357 - Still moonbeams as far as I'm concerned.

I'm afraid I fail to see any real scumhunting here, nor do I see what's earned your top townread status.

[Papa Zito]

Alright I said I would read yesterday but I didn't. I've been staring at the Xalxe iso vote counts for a while today. Papa, where would you say your effective vote was during D1 algebra vs nn? I remember you saying it was on Titus early in the day, and then you FTRd algebra near the end of the day. I know this was a while ago but I'm trying to see where your thinking was during this time.

I think you'll have to be more specific on what time frame you want.

[Titus]

@Morning Tweet, My claim doesn't clear me. I was using an outdated version where JK was paired with either tracker or BP. I remove any claim of my role clearing me. I have not been 100% clear this game between illness and IRL. It's totally my fault.

@Emproof, It wasn't so much that I wanted Papa over Algebra, but I was alarmed at the lack of scumhunting going on. No one was trying to press the game forward, and something felt off about Papa Zito. So I pressured it.

When scumhunting, we should be seeking resolution, right or wrong. Being able to vote anyone at any time is a red flag just as much as buddying. I am pretty sure Zito is scum using that standard but I want to find the other scum before I vote. The catch is there's good reason to doubt all of you as scum.

[Empoof]

@papa right before I joined the game (post ~159) to voting shadow. All of the algebra vs nn stuff. You had yourself not voting Titus because of L-1, but left it off for a long time after the wagon dissipated

@Titus you said scum fell in (algebra/Dunn/Papa) yesterday. Expand this thought process and why are nn/Tweet/myself townie yesterday. Who's papas most likely partner in your eyes right now.

[Empoof]

I'm so paranoid I could see papa and Titus scum team rn trying to lock f3. Fuck.

Might start drinking coffee again today

[Papa Zito]

@papa right before I joined the game (post ~159) to voting shadow. All of the algebra vs nn stuff. You had yourself not voting Titus because of L-1, but left it off for a long time after the wagon dissipated

Around the time you replaced in I felt I didn't really have a firm grasp of the game so I reread everything a couple times. I summarized the results of this in 242. After 242 I start engaging with Shaddowez and his responses were poor. Then I voted him in 260. That's not really a long time to me?

[Empoof]

159 -> 242 is about 5 days time. This is the area I was grey about, which you were too apparently. But I didn't notice you were also prodded during this time.

Welp. That didn't help as much as I'd hoped it would.

I am no longer interested in lynching nn30 though, I think those voters are on the wrong track. Grundy and Big Poof strike me as bros. Algebra's a mess and I see why he's getting flak but I'm super unsure about what he's doing or why. Tweet needs to post more - Don't Let Your Dreams Be Dreams. Shadow's lack of presence continues to be a major concern. I want to throw Titus through a window regardless of her alignment.

I think that's about where I'm at.


Time to start Doing Stuff I guess I'll start here.

@algebra:

Who would you say are your top 3 scumspects? I don't need reasons just a list is cool.

This is the kinda post I was wondering about, thanks

[Empoof]

Also Titus my name is Empoof that's been bugging me since you started using Emproof D2. Not why I'm scumreading you though

Night kills: Arona and Dunn. Someone give me reasons why these 2 died. Mostly Arona. I read through Arona and am not seeing anything that jumps out at me. Dunn was Papa's homie at the end of D2 and sassed Titus but I haven't read through them yet.

Titus what was your line of questions going for yesterday, it felt like there was no wind in your sails. Most of the questions felt loaded or reasonless.

I'm gonna tear into Titus/nn EoD 1 since I remember titus goading nn for the shaddow hammer