Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Black - My initial town read was genuine. But upon rereading I realised I didn't actually like his post as it included a lot of theory ad opposed to actual game content.

As well as this, his wagon analysis wasn't great and I probably saw Rask as town a bit more than I usually would because I wanted him to be town, if that makes sense?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Shush Maria and wait until you're called to the galleys.

[MariaR]

BBT can't give me questions cause he knows I'll disprove every single shade comment he's thrown at me la la la
VOTE: BBT
This vote goes away when you give me my questions~

[MariaR]

Where'd you go BBT WHAT HAPPENED BUDDY
You were just starting to entertain me and you leave!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's funny that Maria knows there are things she needs to respond to and continues to pretend they don't exist.

Rask, please vote Maria with me.

[MariaR]

I don't know what I need to answer cause you haven't said anything

Throwing shade isn't a question BBT!

[BlackVoid]

Again, aware this is a wild really out-there theory but thinking of such things is just far more exciting than taking it slow.

I have an out-there theory to top your out-there theory. BBT, Sotty7, and MariaR are all scum. BBT pushing MariaR so he can clear both himself and Sotty7 upon her lynch (she was "buddying" Sotty7) and coast the rest of the game, while also sewing in distancing interactions with Sotty7 in case she gets lynched first. It's out-there but I have a fairly narrow pool of suspects given my six townreads and all three of them are in it.

I do think Jaack has a decent chance of being scum though. He's flown below the radar a lot.

[MariaR]

Again, aware this is a wild really out-there theory but thinking of such things is just far more exciting than taking it slow.

I have an out-there theory to top your out-there theory. BBT, Sotty7, and MariaR are all scum. BBT pushing MariaR so he can clear both himself and Sotty7 upon her lynch (she was "buddying" Sotty7) and coast the rest of the game, while also sewing in distancing interactions with Sotty7 in case she gets lynched first. It's out-there but I have a fairly narrow pool of suspects given my six townreads and all three of them are in it.

I do think Jaack has a decent chance of being scum though. He's flown below the radar a lot.

...Holy sh*t I wish I was this smart.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lots of tin foil hats about.

[MariaR]

Notice how I'm asking BBT to just list questions and he's avoiding it like I'm asking him to give me his role pm
This has me in ruins oh sweet jesus I haven't had this much fun in such a long time just fking with a guy

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Maria, I told you to shush whilst you wait for your sentence.

Which will be death by hanging.

[Raskolnikov]

@BV Lol, I actually thought about that but it was starting to go too far for even me. I kind of wish you didn't mention that actually.

[MariaR]

Maria, I told you to shush whilst you wait for your sentence.

Which will be death by hanging.

What dress should I wear to my hanging.

Anyway to get off the topic of BBT I'd vote Jack and a few others
Won't vote Rask Cloud Sable

[MariaR]

My biggest weakness and something I'm trying to get over is I treat interactions and bussing like gold like if someone busses someone auto tr bam and I forget that it's a thing even if it's something that happens a lot.
I think I need to re read a few people I had as towny based on my sr's cause my brain is in a bit of a mess atm

[BlackVoid]

@BV Lol, I actually thought about that but it was starting to go too far for even me. I kind of wish you didn't mention that actually.

Yeah, I think I should have waited for them to dig into their stances a bit more but what's done is done.

Sotty7 wagon seems a lot more viable than BBT at this point.

VOTE: Sotty7

To be clear, I actually think it's likely BBT and Sotty7 are partners. The MariaR theory was me just brainstorming although I wouldn't necessarily rule it out.

@MariaR, your vote on BBT ("I'll unvote after you do this specific thing") was very odd. Is this explicit stating that the vote is for pressure normal for you?

[MariaR]

@BV Lol, I actually thought about that but it was starting to go too far for even me. I kind of wish you didn't mention that actually.

Yeah, I think I should have waited for them to dig into their stances a bit more but what's done is done.

Sotty7 wagon seems a lot more viable than BBT at this point.

VOTE: Sotty7

To be clear, I actually think it's likely BBT and Sotty7 are partners. The MariaR theory was me just brainstorming although I wouldn't necessarily rule it out.

@MariaR, your vote on BBT ("I'll unvote after you do this specific thing") was very odd. Is this explicit stating that the vote is for pressure normal for you?

No it's the first time I think I've ever done it.

[Sotty7]

What did you like?

Post 238 Has a good point how you latched onto Jaack's read of the wagon. Post 293 goes into more detail.

Well it does, because Sotty was attempting to push a baseless scum read and instantly gave up on it when it wasn't going anywhere. She literally gave no reasons for why I was scum.

Except this isn't what happened. I voted you for you quick push and dump on Rask then you dropped off the face of the earth and what I thought was a good meta read - these are reasons.

Well it does, because Sotty was attempting to push a baseless scum read and instantly gave up on it when it wasn't going anywhere. She literally gave no reasons for why I was scum.

Not true. I gave my reasons and instead of staying in a holding pattern I moved over to another scum read. I fail to see how that is scummy and why I can't work with multiple scum reads at once. It would be one thing if you were active and posting but you were nowhere to be found. How exactly am I going to build a case of the three or four votes you had made in thread at the time?

This is Sotty desperately trying to hold onto a BBT scum read. She is now justifying her scum read after the fact. What was forced about my catch up?

What don't you like about my Maria vote? Are you town reading her? If so, why?

I like BBT more for scum at this point. He came in with a vote on Rask to start a wagon, there were already two other players with two votes at the time Blackvoid and gm. It seems to be an attempt to sort Rask which comes quick and with no further elaboration. I would have expected more considering the history they both speak to. Feels like he started the wagon then panicked a little when it took off. I also remember BBTScum being very no nonsense cutting to the heart of the matter, were as townBBT being more open.

Unvote, Vote: BBT

You can keep repeating it but I clearly gave reasons for my vote at the time and I wasn't trying to justify it after the case. If anything you are doing the exact same thing. You voted me with little reasoning and now have come back to justify that read.

What don't you like about my Maria vote? Are you town reading her? If so, why?

I am now, mostly because of your reaction to her.

Unvote, Vote: BBT

Trying to frame my vote into something it wasn't. The reasoning he scum reads me now is because I had "no reasons" for my vote on him which is blatantly false.

[Raskolnikov]

@BV The thing is, looking at just the facts, BBT's push on maria is still reasonable. Maria's response isn't usual if you compare to most players but not really out of line with her usual omgusy/reactive style.
It's at this point still possible one of my townreads will do something to make me reconsider them, cloud I'm fading a bit on and furthermore IAI isn't even ingame.

I'm still not entirely sure BBT is scum even if sotty is. Problem is that individually, if you throw out associations he's more null than a scumread to me.

[MariaR]

Omgusy style?
I take offense to that remark >.>

[Sotty7]

Sotty has what sounds like a strong bbt read too but wants to lynch twoface for something that sounds a lot weaker and kind of lame. Earlier pushing of each other is reasonable to assume wouldn't go that far, given weak reasonings given at that point. Sotty asking me if his bbt meta was outdated possibly expected me to say it was

Or maybe I just haven't played with BBT for over a year and wanted more current input? I think meta can be useful if two people claim to know each other pretty well.

I like to put my vote to work, with BBT's inactivity I didn't find in towns best interest to just sit around and let the game get stagnant. I'm going to move my vote, I'm going to pressure people. It's the name of the game and it was part of the reason I wanted twoface to commit with a vote. I have a feeling that if I had left my vote on BBT, he would have found that scummy as well.

Sotty7 wagon seems a lot more viable than BBT at this point.

VOTE: Sotty7

To be clear, I actually think it's likely BBT and Sotty7 are partners. The MariaR theory was me just brainstorming although I wouldn't necessarily rule it out.

How is my wagon more viable? I still can't believe we're trying to call partners day one with no flips. I don't get it. Is bussing still that rampant on the site?

[BlackVoid]

@BV The thing is, looking at just the facts, BBT's push on maria is still reasonable. Maria's response isn't usual if you compare to most players but not really out of line with her usual omgusy/reactive style.
It's at this point still possible one of my townreads will do something to make me reconsider them, cloud I'm fading a bit on and furthermore IAI isn't even ingame.

I'm still not entirely sure BBT is scum even if sotty is. Problem is that individually, if you throw out associations he's more null than a scumread to me.

I do think that BBT's argument that MariaR showed up to complain about the Rask wagon while not commenting on anything else was a valid one. But I didn't like his accusation that MariaR was fencesitting on Sotty7 because I had the exact same reaction as MariaR did to Sotty7's post.

Besides that, he made two separate accusations: He accused MariaR of fencesitting on Sotty7 in the event a wagon takes off. This implies that Sotty7 is town and MariaR is looking to opportunistically join that wagon. He also accused MariaR of trying to "sync" her reads with Sotty7 which is a buddying accusation which also only makes sense with Sotty7-town.

While I can buy that some people have reads independent of everything else, the bulk of BBT's MariaR suspicion seems to be based on how she played around Sotty7. So, it's unbelievable for me that he's happy to lynch either one. Do you think BBT's reads seem consistent?

Oh, and I also thought one stray comment from MariaR about Rask-wagon isn't something that would make BBT so confident that she's scum that he's deadset on her lynch.

[Sotty7]

Hoopla, what's your BBT read? I'm stating to feel you're just treading water here, first with your Maria vote and then the back and forth with Victor. Also with your vote and pressure or lack of on me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Black, you're misunderstanding the bulk of my Maria scum read.

You're also correct that my reads are independent of each other - I try not to let associations colour my reads - especially on D1.

[Raskolnikov]

I like to put my vote to work, with BBT's inactivity I didn't find in towns best interest to just sit around and let the game get stagnant. I'm going to move my vote, I'm going to pressure people. It's the name of the game and it was part of the reason I wanted twoface to commit with a vote. I have a feeling that if I had left my vote on BBT, he would have found that scummy as well.

Maybe it's just me, but if I think someone's scum I'm usually not too concerned if they "think" something I do is scummy.

Now, the vote away while BBT was inactive isn't so bad. But when you say his catchup was scummy again in 416 I kind of expected a change back, and you were even conscious of vote there given your statement to mod.

[BlackVoid]

How is my wagon more viable? I still can't believe we're trying to call partners day one with no flips. I don't get it. Is bussing still that rampant on the site?

You have more votes on you so more viable. If BBT is more viable, I'll move there. You two are tied as my top two scumreads.

I haven't been on the site very long so I can't speak to how rampant it was before. But I recently completed a large theme game (Dragon Age Mafia) where I replaced in as confirmed town in 3-player lylo. The entire scumteam bussed the hell out of each other. I correctly called them out on hard-bussing and voted the last scum, Vedith.

I have a hard time getting into the mindset of people who develop reads in a vacuum. I'll have to check if this is normal for you. Reads are dependent on one another. This is proven when you say MariaR is town

purely

because BBT is pushing her. So, you ARE using your existing reads to develop associations. I don't know why you have an issue with me doing that.