Mini 523 - Game Over!

[Infinitive]

Vote Count

Thanatos (1) - Gorgon

Not Voting (8) - Dark_Lady_Shaiann, Thanatos, Disciple Slayer, liamcool, Infinitive, Nudude, VampyreLord, charter

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Second up is Disciple Slayer:

vote = Lord Nikon

charter, better post an explanation fast.
FOS: charter
I don't know what to think of Lord Nikon/Dark Lady Shaiann yet.

Speaking of inactivity, I'm going to be away for three days.
unvote VampyreLord

FOS ShotgunKitten for voting Lord Nikon for no reason and for not talking much.

Ho-hum. Need more information here.

Gave Charter an FOS because I didn't like how he voted me. OMGUS voted VampyreLord. I really can't say which of the two seem more suspicious at the moment. I was waiting for Shotgun_Kitten and Lord Nikon to post before posting more.

Go stuff yourself. I'm not still clinging to that. I was asked why I gave you a FOS and I explained. Give me a break.

If not, SK's dead weight at best and I don't mind lynching her.
/quote]
Why is dead weight better than a possible townie/pro-town powah role?

I really don't like deepthought's attitude. That alone pisses me off. I tend to agree with HeH when he talks about how deepthought wanted to modkill lurkers and how he said he knew that there were three mafia in the game.
deepthought, why don't you come up with some good rebuttals instead of being an asshat about it? I'm giving you another chance. For now,
FOS deepthought

Vote: deepthought
Go to hell. I've had it with you.

@deepthought: Nice attempt to label valid arguments and suspicions as a bandwagon. Just so you know, I always vote assholes first.

It means that in addition to his suspicious activities, he is also an asshole. Therefore he gets my vote.
Did I forget? No. Did the others post them already? Yes. Nice try at skirting the issue.

Actually, I think that is a good idea.
DT, what role are you, exactly? I want you to roleclaim. I think others do too.
unvote
How in the world did we get such a belligerent doc? Hahah, unvote for now.
You want more clarification? Let me give you an example.
Person A and Person B are both suspicious. Person A is an asshole. Person B is not. Guess who gets my vote.
Just because I ask for a claim doesn't mean I'm going to believe it right away.
Take another example, because you seem stupid tonight.
Person A claims he can walk on water. Should I believe him without seeing any proof?
I can provide pictorial evidence showing that I am, indeed, the Lord Jesus Christ and savior of mankind and it wouldn't do shit in this game. Once again, stop trying to skirt the issues at hand. Deal with it directly and don't try distractions. I still don't want to put you at L-1, but I want some good answers soon and you're not providing them.

FLAMEWAR EDITED OUT

As should be evident, there's very little here, compared to Thanatos' postings, despite a 3 1/2 page head start. DS seems to move around a lot, and never gives more than a little justification for any of his FOS's or Votes. From the very beginning, he seems very argumentative, almost as if he's looking to pick a fight, and when DLS finally engages him, he escalated it very quickly (though she's to blame as well for the flamewar). He repeatedly demands that we ignore distractions, while issuing a few himself.

I find this to be suspicious; it could be a scum ploy engineered to get people annoyed with him, but to also give the impression that he's being too highly reactive and thoughtless with his actions to deserve real scrutiny. Alternately, his votes, FOS's, and words speak for himself. There's very little content here for the actions he takes. I'm not sure if I think that DS is scum, but he hasn't seemed to do us much good.

[Infinitive]

And now, Liam:

Vote: Charter
Might as well get on a bandwagon, I suppose, considering we really don't have anything to go on yet.

Actually, in regards to your post, Nudude, it's made me kinda suspicious about Infinitive. Not wanting people to vote means the scum get an obvious advantage. Yes, I know, this probably doesn't make a ton of sense, but eh.

If people don't vote, the people who are voted against can't defend themselves (because they're not voted for, obviously), and then the town doesn't have as much information as they might possibly have.

Question (which may show my ignorance): How many Mafia are there? Do we know?

Couldn't we just vote the people who aren't posting at all out or something, if it's bugging you all that much?

@laimcool. You haven't really done any scumhunting and I'd like your opinion. Who do you find most suspicious? Why?
Based off the last page or so (the new conversation), I have a fairly strong suspicion (about 60%) or so that deepthought is scum. He seems to want Shotgun Kitten to be killed rather than replaced, which is kinda suspicious. Also, he apparently knows that there are three mafia. He stated that with a lot of convinction and knowledge. For all we know, this might be a non-standard game with 2 or 4 mafia, or even a bastard mod game with screwed up roles. Highly unlikely for the second instance though.
Not neccesarily. Speculating might bring up more conversation which brings up more leads which helps uncover scum, which i highly suspect you to be right now.
I know, I don't have many leads right now but I'm trying the best that I can.
Unvote: Charter
FOS: Deepthought

Okay, it seems blaringly obvious due to his nature and all the evidence piling up. I'm probably going to regret this, but I'm going to join on the bandwagon..
Vote: deepthought

Right. You all know that I am and have been suspicious of Liamcool. FWIW, DT was as well. I find it very interesting that Liam attached himself to every nascent bandwagon that the town formed, and hedged each one of his votes with a caveat. When the DT bandwagon began to pick up, he spoke fairly strongly against DT, but never gave any original reasons of his own, and never really pushed anyone what wasn't already being prodded by others. Later on, he was highly reactive, and FOSd at least one or two people for prodding and voting him.

Simply put, Liam reeks of sloppy scum to me. He was on the DT bandwagon, though he didn't lead it. He never contributed anything new to the conversation. He hasn't really offered any defense of his statements or actions since coming under scrutiny.

FOS: Liamcool:

[Infinitive]

Aaaaand, Charter:

vote deepthought
never fails! (With a d12 random roll)

Where did I say I don't really care who we lynch? I most certainly do care, I want to lynch scum. However, in case you haven't noticed, none of the people I've voted for were in any danger whatsoever of being lynched.
I don't really find Infinitive not voting to be that suspicious. It doesn't look like he's anti lynch, just anti random voting.

Yeah, I put someone at L-1 because I wasn't thinking and I was the prime suspect for scum for the rest of the game. (when I was in fact the cop)
I agree with you Nudude, that we need people to post regardless of if they have something to post about, else we won't ever find scum. However, I don't think you have to vote if there isn't someone you wish to vote for, but you should be looking for someone to vote for.

Where am I "sticking up for" let alone even talking about/with Dark lady shaiann? I don't see where Infinitive does this either. Care to explain your statement?

There's nothing saying quiet people are good townies. Quiet people can also make good scum, and vocal people can make good townies.

I really think you guys are making too big of deal over this. I think it's enough to say the vote was random because she didn't have any information to base it off of. If there's a reason, totally unrelated to the game, I think that's just as random as rolling a dice.

That's a good way of putting it. I'm trying to learn from my past mistakes. I'm not quite sure I want to vote for vampyrelord, but if his explanation isn't good I might be inclined to.

Perhaps I can help prod SK into contributing.
unvote disciple slayer
vote shotgun kitten

I'm merely voting for SK to try and get him/her to talk. When they post something (assuming it doesn't give me a reason to keep my vote on them) I'll most likely take it off.
I agree, a bandwagon when we have nothing to go on is a terrible idea.

It's quite difficult. We have SK and lord nikon who haven't posted in entirely too long.
I don't get this. You need more information about what? About who you think is scum. This sentence confuses me a lot and is unacceptable as your only post in a long time.
I don't really see how my voting on you because it took you three posts to put up a random vote (a joking vote on you in case it wasn't obvious) makes me suspicious. Also, this all happened in the first couple of posts. I don't like how you're still clinging to that. It seems like a very weak argument to say the least.

I don't like how you vote for liamcool and then immediately make a new post after unvoting him and then voting deepthought. Personally, I would have kept my vote on liamcool and just stated the reasons why you suspect deepthought. I think its very suspicious that you are switching your vote around like this this far into day one.
I don't think deepthought is scum. I think he has some seriously flawed views of what's good for the town, but he isn't really arguing them and trying to convince us that he's right, which I would expect scum to do. Also, I think it would be too obvious if he's scum and he's saying we want a mod kill. He would have to know that all fingers are going to point to him afterward, and I don't think he'd draw attention to himself like that if he was scum.
liamcool on the other hand, I am getting a scum feeling towards. I have to go now, so I'll finish my thoughts on him when I get a chance (few hours from now hopefully).
With deepthoughts last post, my view towards him has changed, so most of my last post isn't necessarily true anymore.

He seems fairly adament that we get rid of her by any means necessary. I think this is dumb because we have virtually no information on her, and I don't see how you can come to the conclusion that she's scum based on almost nothing. It certainly isn't enough for me to lynch someone on. All I can go by is probabilities, and there's a greater chance, she is in fact, a townie.
liamcool is here and participating, but not helping the town out any. The only explanation I can come up with for this is that he is scum. I think he's purposely not joining the discussion very much, because he hasn't said he's been busy in real life.
HEH, makes sense.
I agree with gorgon. If you weren't scum, you would have said something like there's probably a 75% chance she's town. You however, said definitively there's a 75% chance she's town. No one in the town, other than mafia, would know this.
Regardless of what the percent chance she's town is, I still can't imagine a townie would want her flat out killed, when you can continue to play the game (to a certain extent) without her. So what if she's mafia? There's probably two more other ones out there that we can find and lynch instead.
Since SK is getting replaced,
unvote shotgun kitten
You pretty much reiterated what everyone else has already deduced. Still haven't been actively looking for scum, just latching onto other people's suspicions.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5939
I just completely didn't think anyone could be close to a lynch when I made my vote because I made like the forth vote overall. A mistake I'm not going to make again (why I ask for vote counts and 'did I add these right?' before I vote) because we spent a while arguing over it when I was the cop and didn't need any extra attention.
How were you so positive SK was scum that you wanted her to be modkilled? She had like two posts and neither said anything. I had no inkling as to whether she was town or scum. Wouldn't you rather try and find and lynch another scum who you can be more sure about?
@mod, I'm currently not voting for anyone thought I'm leaning heavily towards liamcool because I don't believe he's helped the town out at all.
Nudude wrote:
Ok, my thoughts.

deepthought, I believe everyone is aware lynching a townie D1 is not the end of the world, however we want to do everything in our power to make sure we nail scum if we can.

You've made it quite clear that it's not really a big deal to you if we lynch scum or town on the first day. Now to be fair, if a lynch turns up townie that does give us more insight into who is scum. We can better analyse the lynched townie thoughts and know for 100% that it was a townie's thoughts, and who pushed for the lynch ie. who seemd to know they were lynching a townie? So yes, I'm willing to concede it isn't game breaking.

Completely agree with this. This, to me, means "I'm mafia. I'm going to roleclaim to try and save myself. The fact that he was thinking of impersonating the cop is ridiculous to me. There's no possible way lynching you is the wrong course of action. In all likelyhood, you're scum, because you're doing a great job of acting like it. If you are a townie. I highly doubt you're the doctor, and you're lying to the rest of us, and you'll make the town self destruct.
I wasn't really thinking you were scum until you posted that. I don't really believe the claim, and I certainly don't think you're a townie.
vote deepthought

Okay, this is kind of interesting. Like Thanatos, he's on the DT bandwagon, and he buys Than's ati-docclaim argument. However, he contributes to the scumhunt in addition to being a follower, and later confronts Thanatos on his cop-investigation plan. He pushed DT for info, then considers it, probably more than most of the rest of us did and, though I wince to say this, certainly more than I did. He's skeptical of the initial bandwagon-forming on DT, and it's only DT's own admission of a considered fake copclaim that puts him on.

Simply put, Charter hasn't even blipped on my scumdar this whole game; hence the fact that he keeps escaping my notice. He seems to be the right mix of asking questions and following others' lead that I would think is indicative of a vanilla townie. Maybe this reflects poorly on me, but I just don't see any real reason to suspect Charter right now.

[Thanatos]

hmm..I know I screwed up, and that I had a big hand in the DT lynch, but I was only wrong in the DT lynch. That's not a string of coincidences...that's me being fooled by his scummy behavior, just like 6 other people.

Tell me this, while it's obvious my advice hurt us, was it ever unfounded?

[Nudude]

This is a bad spot for town atm. We have quite a few people, that in my opinion, are not contributing very much at all. The problem is while not all of them are scum, there is almost certainly scum amongst them.

Right now, I define the lurkers as:

DLS
Liamcool
Vampyrelord


Then there's the middle ground. These people do not "Lead" any charges, but are active:

DS
Infinitive
Gorgon
charter
DS

And I think most people agree the most vocal is Thanatos.

I really want to see the lurkers contribute more. One on hand, liamcool does seem a bit scummy, on the other, he seems new to the game. His plays go along with the general consesus, and while a scum may do that, a newbie who doesn't really know the game may do that too. I'm not sure which he is.

As I said, I want to see the lurkers contribute more. No matter how busy you are, you can at least make one post every few days. The less you post, however, the more substansial your post has to be. The town depends on everyone making regular contributions, and your letting us down by lurking.

And I eagerly await VL's response to my question.

[Nudude]

In fact,

MOD, can we get a prod on: Dark_Lady_Shaiann.

She hasn't posted in six days.

[Nudude]

Finally, in regards to analysing HeH's thought's:

He seemd to look at Thanatos and DS alot (though mainly he was saying that DS could be a bit rude sometimes).

To a lesser extent, he looked an infinative and liamcool.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

Do not prode me I am here, and I must say I'm kind of stuck on what to do. My suspicions lie on DS for reasons I have stated very long ago (yes in the flamewar >_<) but I fear every one will simply take my suspisions as me simply not liking him, (neither of which are true) and another reason for him to fight with me, something I'm sure none of you want again. So, I shall leave him alone for now, and see if I can find more effective evidence.

At this point anything I have to say will probaly have already been pointed out and I will get accused of simply agreeing with others and not producing new evidence like it seems a few others have fallen victim to. I'm going to attempt a re-read and see if I can bring something new to the table......

[Infinitive]

DLS, if you have suspicions, voice them. If nothing else, closer examination of anyone can't be bad for the town. Given the history between you two, I'd go out of my way to be polite about it tho.

I, for one, will look at any evidence or theories that anyone posts about anyone. We're in a bit of a spot at the moment, and more discussion is a good thing.

[Thanatos]

THe worst thing that can happen in this kind of hole is for us to stop posting. At worst, it ruins the game, and at best, it lets the scum walk over us.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

DLS, if you have suspicions, voice them. If nothing else, closer examination of anyone can't be bad for the town. Given the history between you two, I'd go out of my way to be polite about it tho.

I, for one, will look at any evidence or theories that anyone posts about anyone. We're in a bit of a spot at the moment, and more discussion is a good thing.

Well...I'm not gonna sugercoat it if I do find good enough evidence, if thats what you mean. I just fear if I say anything he will start arguing with me again and my points will be lost to another flame war. Which is basically how I feel he got away with everything the last time.

[Infinitive]

Please, DLS, post what you think. The game is stalling a little bit right now, and if your thoughts are not damning on their own, we'll question DS and see how he responds. So long as you don't pick a fight, I don't think he will this time, since Numenorean has stated that another fight between you two would be a Bad Thing.

I mean, I went and posted pretty comprehensive stuff on four different people, and it's garnered like 2 paragraphs of discussion. If that's not gonna spark something, let's see someone else go for it.

[Gorgon]

Good content from Infinitive. This sort of effort at least makes me inclined to write him off my list for now, especially since a lot of what he's saying makes sense to me.

DLS, it would help if you could post your thoughts on some other players than DS, if you're that reluctant to go there again.

[Infinitive]

Okay, Thanatos, I think it's pretty clear right now that the most troubling factor against you is your suggestion for the use of the cop on night 1. Even on day 1, a chorus of us were arguing against it because it was simply bad tactics, and I think we can say now that it would have been quite bad for the town had the cop agreed to it; DT would have almost certainly been nightkilled and the investigation wasted. Further, if you ARE scum, it would have been a very good way to stall the cop out for a night, and prevent him/her from investigating any scum.

In short, you proposed a plan whose only beneficiary, as far as I can see, would be the scum.

I would greatly appreciate an extended conversation about the thought process that lead up to the formulation of that plan, and why you stuck with it even after several people, myself included, told you why it was a bad idea to plan out the cop's investigation in public.

I'm not saying i think you're scum yet, Than, but you've proposed and spearheaded several things that would have/have benefited the scum.

[Infinitive]

Sorry for double posting.

Liam and DS, would you mind responding to the thoughts I posted about you guys in my PBPA above? I was somewhat condemnatory therein, and I'd like to see what you have to say in rebuttal.

[Thanatos]

Okay, Thanatos, I think it's pretty clear right now that the most troubling factor against you is your suggestion for the use of the cop on night 1. Even on day 1, a chorus of us were arguing against it because it was simply bad tactics, and I think we can say now that it would have been quite bad for the town had the cop agreed to it; DT would have almost certainly been nightkilled and the investigation wasted. Further, if you ARE scum, it would have been a very good way to stall the cop out for a night, and prevent him/her from investigating any scum.

In short, you proposed a plan whose only beneficiary, as far as I can see, would be the scum.

I would greatly appreciate an extended conversation about the thought process that lead up to the formulation of that plan, and why you stuck with it even after several people, myself included, told you why it was a bad idea to plan out the cop's investigation in public.

I'm not saying i think you're scum yet, Than, but you've proposed and spearheaded several things that would have/have benefited the scum.

As for the plan in and of itself, we've already discussed this. I still say it was a solid plan, because, if they had decided to let him live...we'd probably be in this same position tomorrow...Although, if we failed to lynch scum today as well, we would be even worse off.

Ugh, The plan I had was to prevent what has just happened from happening, on top of putting us in Lylo. If you don't think that's worth a cop investigation, then we simply disagree on the worth of a cop investigation, I guess.

In the end, though, my biggest mistake, the only reason all of my plans backfired, was that DT was actually telling the truth. If that had not been the case, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now, correct? I had thought, as did most of us, that DT was scum. Don't turn me into a false messiah so quickly, for simply making that same mistake.

[Infinitive]

I'm not trying to make you into a false messiah Than, but exchange places with me- if you saw me lead a charge like you did that turned out so bad, wouldn't you want a healthy discussion on the matter?

Speaking of which, would someone else please post regarding SOMETHING? I feel all on my lonesome out here.

[charter]

Ok, I went back and looked at deepthoughts posts from day one, to see who got on and off his wagon and to try and figure out what he was thinking, now that we know he was the doctor. Here it is

28- Finds nududes suggestion of lurker hunting odd and seems to find him a little suspicious

large gap in his meaningful posts (including everything relating to SK)

102- Finds a post of DLS's scummy. Now that I reread it, even though it's meant to be a sarcastic post, it could be made out to look like a joke, anyhow, I find it HIGHLY scummy as well. She thinks in 101 that HeH and DT are scum buddies. Who got lynched yesterday? Who got killed last night? Quite the remarkable coincidence to me.

108- Goes after nudude again saying that nudude is jumping on DTs wagon
115- 75% chance of SK being a townie post
121- Responds to gorgons calling his knowledge of 3 scum into question. Asks infinitive why he's hesitant to jump on his bandwagon.
126- Slight argument with DLS
129- Defending his 75% against nududes questioning with his experience
138- Explains his abrasiveness and says HeH and me are the only ones looking for scum, not people we disagree with.
140-145- Tries to explain difference of opinion to thanatos.

small fight with DS

171- Subtly hints at being doctor with scrubbs post
188- Comments on a DS post
195- His post stating he was considering other roles to claim to "fuck with the town"... What an idiotic post on his part...
200- Defending his claim.
219- Says DS is "not a very good scum"

It's basically an attempt to throw the game and is terribly unsportsmanlike.

Hence the reason I decided against it. I have no beef with Num, and it wouldn't be fair to screw up his game while he's putting good effort into making it enjoyable. The rest of you, on the other hand, made it a pretty tempting idea. If more of you had moved beyond shitting on your keyboards and spell-checking the results, and started thinking about the arguments on their merits, maybe the wagon would've turned out differently. Who knows.

Personally I think Infinitive and Disciple Slayer are both scummier than an algae factory, and here are my thoughts:

SK / Thanatos

- I'd lean town. On the one hand, he's pushed to keep the day focused on a single easy lynch target before and after the roleclaim, coming right out and saying "let's let the lurkers come and finish him off." That's potentially an effort to distance himself from the end of the wagon, force lurking townies into making themselves look more suspicious (by dropping the hammer on a townie, and a power role at that) to set up a progression of lynches, and get rid of the one person willing to accuse him.

On the other, he came right into the game blazing with a vote on shaky reasoning, and I imagine a replacement scum would more carefully consider the potential backfire (accusations of OMGUS voting, overeager play, so on and down the line). It reads to me more like a townie wondering, "how can he possibly think I'm scum when

I

know I'm confirmed town?!" than a scum looking for a strategic kill.

HeH

- I'd lean town, with reservations. My initial impression was "only guy in the game that knows what he's doing", so even though I was on the fence for a while I was content to leave him be on the theory that he'd be the most fun to play against later on if he were scum. That said, he was one of two players during the asshole-wagon to explicitly slow down with, "think about what he's saying on the big-picture merits", which is a happy medium between the two scummier (and more common) arguments: "I agree with everyone else's suspicions, vote" and "guys, let's be careful we don't vote off a townie".

charter

- About on par with HeH, if a little shakier. Willing to step back and examine the merits of the asshole-wagon in a very "I'm not sure how deepthought is actually aligned"-esque way, but also seems very snipey with his comments. A shot from the wings here, another there.

Lord Nikon

- Probably an idiot vanilla townie that got his role, played for a few days, figured his role wasn't important enough to need to tell anyone he didn't feel like playing anymore, and took off. If he played that way as scum and I were a mod, personally I'd blacklist him from future games, but that's neither here nor there.

Nudude

- I'd say overeager newbie town.

VampyreLord, liamcool, and Lord Nikon

- Each deserve a big red avatar that says "PUSSY" until they grow a pair and stop lurking, but unfortunately you can't buy those here. Odds say one of them is probably scum, and I'd start with VL and liamcool.

DLS and Gorgon

- Coinflips.

Disciple Slayer

- During the asshole-wagon, interjects just often enough to not be lurking but not often enough to be noticed, and without any substance beyond "I need more info" or "I'm confused, check back later". Jumps on the bandwagon claiming my attitude is "pissing him off" despite the fact that he hasn't actually interacted with anyone in a meaningful way, after it's becomes clear that the wagon is a safe bet, but not before testing the waters with an FoS that he can't be held accountable for. My #2 pick.

Infinitive

- Read through post #117; you couldn't make those arguments any more vague if you

tried

. Agrees with the suspicions posted of me but doesn't jump on the wagon, potentially afraid of being called out for it - even pre-emptively deflects suspicion by saying this is all intentional and links to some stupid "how to be a good townie" thing to allay suspicion in the opening. Hasn't offered an original thought this entire game, I don't think, despite posting more regularly than others.

310- Votes for infinitive, thinks infinitive, DS, and liamcool are scum
311- Explains his two reads on nudude
315- Dodges my questioning of his vote on infinitive
322- Semi explains my questioning of him
329- Everyone makes mistakes, scum more likely to panic
353- Says the cop investigating him at night would be a waste
360- Says he's waiting to be nightkilled. Another idiot post...
365- More of him being in a lose-lose situation
369- Says he votes off intuition
371- More discussion with thanatos over possible day two scenerios
394- Tons of evidence against liamcool, looks pretty solid
397- Cop discussion with gorgon and votes for liamcool
431- Questions infinitives vote for liamcool
432- Says VL isn't jumping on board because he knows DT isn't scum
442- More stuff against VL
467- His farewell post, pretty big, I'd suggest rereading it

[charter]

This was all formed during my reread of day one. I was really just concentrating on DTs posts and ignoring most of the rest.

HeH also calls into question nududes hesitance to lead in the lurker hunt in 109, despite his thinking it's the course of action to take (at that point in time).

laimcool was very suspicious at the beginning (around 140-150) because of his lurking, and not coming up with his own opinions. In 167 he blantently jumps on DTs bandwagon putting him at L-1 with virtually no explaination.

Around 430 when infinitive votes for liamcool, I think he liamcool thought that DT wasnt actually going to end up lynched, and he switched right over to liamcool when he even admitted to not finiding liamcool very suspicious. He just wanted to be on the next bandwagon early enough so as to avoid suspicion.

I'd normally find gorgons hammer vote to be suspicious, but in this case it came after DT had made his big last post and most (if not everyone) thought lynching DT was the best course of action, so it wasn't a hurry up and lynch him vote or anything.

Anyhow, after the reread, I also can't imagine how liamcool's scumminess has gone unquestioned thus far, so until he feels like explaining himself,

vote liamcool

[Thanatos]

I'm not trying to make you into a false messiah Than, but exchange places with me- if you saw me lead a charge like you did that turned out so bad, wouldn't you want a healthy discussion on the matter?

Speaking of which, would someone else please post regarding SOMETHING? I feel all on my lonesome out here.

Sorry. I understand why you're suspicious. I would be too. All I ask is that you don't jump to conclusions.

[Infinitive]

Beg pardon, Charter, i just want a little clarification, because I'm not sure if I need to explain myself or not.

Around 430 when infinitive votes for liamcool, I think he liamcool thought that DT wasnt actually going to end up lynched, and he switched right over to liamcool when he even admitted to not finiding liamcool very suspicious. He just wanted to be on the next bandwagon early enough so as to avoid suspicion.

Are you saying that I switched over to the next bandwagon or Liamcool did? Meh, regardless, I might as well explain myself, even though I'm pretty my vote post did that pretty well.

I voted for Liam because, as the day progressed, my suspicion of DT was gradually and progressively reduced. Part of my suspicion was based on DT's kind of not-defending-himself, but rather doing other things (like scumhunting which, in retrospect, was the right thing to do). Part of it was based on his belligerance, which I'm now pretty sure was based on him being DT. And most of it was based on the scumhunting he did; as I went back and re-read peoples' posts, his stuff made sense to me. I still thought he was likely scum, but by the time we were winding to the end of day 1, I felt he was not the scummiest person in the game, so I didn't vote for him. As my vote post said, I was pretty sure DT was scum, but I was dead sure that Liam was. As has been shown to be the case, I was wrong in regards to DT, and I'm glad I didn't vote for him (except on the day where I got eaten by a crocodile, but I revoked that as soon as I calmed down).

I'm going to come right out and say it here: I jumped on the DT bandwagon too early and didn't start to listen to his explanations until far too late. Along with Thanatos, I pushed pretty hard on that whole mess for a good long while. This is the first time I've made it to day two, and I'm trying to be rather more careful now before I jump any bandwagons; this is why I'm questioning people about their scumminess before I start pushing Liam again- I'd like to hear about other people before what will likely be the day 2 bandwagon forms (because I'm still certain that Liam is scum, but that only gives us one out of however many scum are out there).

I'm trying to push Thanatos here because he is and has acted as a leader for the town, and the potential fallout if he's scum could be catastrophic. As such, I wanna try to either condemn or clear him before we move on, for reasons I have listed above.

Is that clear enough?

[Disciple Slayer]

Alright, I'm back. First off, my defense.

[Disciple Slayer]

Disciple Slayer: For someone who's posted so frequently, I can find very little to any of his posts aside from bluster or accusations that are based on things other people have already said. This is someone who, I feel, is not really helping the scumhunt. It's worth looking at him. To paraphrase Darth Vader, I find his lack of content disturbing.

Arguments were made against DT, and I supported them. You may think I bluster a lot, but it's part of my playing style. Scum tend to slip up when confronted by enough bluster. I also made quite a few possible scenarios.

[Disciple Slayer]

Vote Count

Thanatos (1) - Gorgon

Not Voting (8) - Dark_Lady_Shaiann, Thanatos, Disciple Slayer, liamcool, Infinitive, Nudude, VampyreLord, charter

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Second up is Disciple Slayer:

vote = Lord Nikon

charter, better post an explanation fast.
FOS: charter
I don't know what to think of Lord Nikon/Dark Lady Shaiann yet.

Speaking of inactivity, I'm going to be away for three days.
unvote VampyreLord

FOS ShotgunKitten for voting Lord Nikon for no reason and for not talking much.

Ho-hum. Need more information here.

Gave Charter an FOS because I didn't like how he voted me. OMGUS voted VampyreLord. I really can't say which of the two seem more suspicious at the moment. I was waiting for Shotgun_Kitten and Lord Nikon to post before posting more.

Go stuff yourself. I'm not still clinging to that. I was asked why I gave you a FOS and I explained. Give me a break.

If not, SK's dead weight at best and I don't mind lynching her.
/quote]
Why is dead weight better than a possible townie/pro-town powah role?

I really don't like deepthought's attitude. That alone pisses me off. I tend to agree with HeH when he talks about how deepthought wanted to modkill lurkers and how he said he knew that there were three mafia in the game.
deepthought, why don't you come up with some good rebuttals instead of being an asshat about it? I'm giving you another chance. For now,
FOS deepthought

Vote: deepthought
Go to hell. I've had it with you.

@deepthought: Nice attempt to label valid arguments and suspicions as a bandwagon. Just so you know, I always vote assholes first.

It means that in addition to his suspicious activities, he is also an asshole. Therefore he gets my vote.
Did I forget? No. Did the others post them already? Yes. Nice try at skirting the issue.

Actually, I think that is a good idea.
DT, what role are you, exactly? I want you to roleclaim. I think others do too.
unvote
How in the world did we get such a belligerent doc? Hahah, unvote for now.
You want more clarification? Let me give you an example.
Person A and Person B are both suspicious. Person A is an asshole. Person B is not. Guess who gets my vote.
Just because I ask for a claim doesn't mean I'm going to believe it right away.
Take another example, because you seem stupid tonight.
Person A claims he can walk on water. Should I believe him without seeing any proof?
I can provide pictorial evidence showing that I am, indeed, the Lord Jesus Christ and savior of mankind and it wouldn't do shit in this game. Once again, stop trying to skirt the issues at hand. Deal with it directly and don't try distractions. I still don't want to put you at L-1, but I want some good answers soon and you're not providing them.

FLAMEWAR EDITED OUT

As should be evident, there's very little here, compared to Thanatos' postings, despite a 3 1/2 page head start. DS seems to move around a lot, and never gives more than a little justification for any of his FOS's or Votes. From the very beginning, he seems very argumentative, almost as if he's looking to pick a fight, and when DLS finally engages him, he escalated it very quickly (though she's to blame as well for the flamewar). He repeatedly demands that we ignore distractions, while issuing a few himself.

I find this to be suspicious; it could be a scum ploy engineered to get people annoyed with him, but to also give the impression that he's being too highly reactive and thoughtless with his actions to deserve real scrutiny. Alternately, his votes, FOS's, and words speak for himself. There's very little content here for the actions he takes. I'm not sure if I think that DS is scum, but he hasn't seemed to do us much good.

As I mentioned before, it's part of my playing style. I don't move around a lot, I strongly believed that DT was scum and stuck with him with the exception of my unvote as soon as he roleclaimed doc. I put my vote on him again after a while, because I was under the impression that no doctor in his right mind would set off my scumdar like Rambo in a minefield.

What's wrong with pointing out distractions? Distractions are bad for the town. Which ones have I supposedly issued out?

I think I'm pretty damn beneficial for the town. I supported the lynch of the number one scum suspect until the end, when it turned out we were mistaken. I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that DT was a horrible doc and seemed very scummy indeed.

[Disciple Slayer]

Do not prode me I am here, and I must say I'm kind of stuck on what to do. My suspicions lie on DS for reasons I have stated very long ago (yes in the flamewar >_<) but I fear every one will simply take my suspisions as me simply not liking him, (neither of which are true) and another reason for him to fight with me, something I'm sure none of you want again. So, I shall leave him alone for now, and see if I can find more effective evidence.

At this point anything I have to say will probaly have already been pointed out and I will get accused of simply agreeing with others and not producing new evidence like it seems a few others have fallen victim to. I'm going to attempt a re-read and see if I can bring something new to the table......

Are you serious? If you really believed those suspicions, why didn't you state them after the flamewar was over? Post them here. Don't pretend that you don't have the balls to do it.

Why is agreeing with others bad? Not everything has to come from you. If no one supports any arguments but the ones they themselves have presented, mafia would be a very, very long game. Post what arguments you agree with and why.