Open 45 - Baby Too Much Scum - Game Over! before 506

[Mookeh]

He's already explained all 3.

No, he did not. He asked me to 'explain my reactions' first. What's so damn suspicious about asking for clarification but not immediately voting? Talk about grasping straws, man.

[kuribo]

This is Jdodge, and he's either right or scum...or wrong,

Isn't that EVERYONE that plays this game?

You're either right, or you're wrong, or you're intentionally misleading the town.

[Mookeh]

Oman meant to emphasize that JDodge isn't often wrong. The stats are unfortunately against JDodge - he is wrong, and often. JDodge has a unique style where he pretty much defies logic and doesn't always care about explaining his actions. As a mafia, this gets him through a lot of games cause people think he's 'just being JDodge'. As a townie, this gets him lynched a lot. The problem I have with his style is that JDodge plays mostly for JDodge, not the town.

Regardless, the arguments are still crap, and I'm mostly surprised by Oman backing JDodge up in this, but meh. If the rest of the group wants to go after me because of JDodge's weird reasons, we deserve to lose this game (and that's not an appeal to emotion, I'm saying his reasons are full of so much shit that whoever agrees with him is a dumbnut).

The problem I'm facing is I want to get the SK, but JDodge likes to turn things into mano a mano matches (it's good for his ego, or so I'm told) so he asks me to defend statements that weren't neccessary to defend in the first place. Meanwhile he still hasn't answered my questions.

Also: is there anyone alive out there?

[mneme]

Oman's summary of the evidence against FH is spot on. FH, most of that evidence was there -before- we started accusing you of admitting; your refusal to defend in any way aside from claiming that we should be hunting the SK instead was indicative. And yes, we're still better off lynching mafia than lynching a townie, by a fair margin -- but an exposed mafioso makes a big difference.

Mookeh, I tend to go away for the weekend (at least from MS. JDodge's play is awful, but interesting.

And...there's no reason for me to have repeated the evidence against Oman/FH aside from the truth or WIFOM; I clearly couldn't expect to get him lynched without a counterclaim (the closest that got to that were Mookeh and Kuribo).

[JDodge]

This is Jdodge, and he's either right or scum...or wrong, but that doesn't happen often.

Orly? Read up.

Loss =/= I was wrong.

Loss = People didn't listen to me or didn't like my play.

Also please go die in the nearest fire, kthxbai

[Mookeh]

Loss = People didn't listen to me or didn't like my play.

Yeah, because you're always right, aren't you, chap. Thankfully Mneme agrees on you bullshitting in this thread. I don't mind you going after me, but at least have good reasons.

Also please go die in the nearest fire, kthxbai

I would, but the mob set up the stake just for you and I don't wanna disappoint. Now are you actually gonna explain yourself?

[JDodge]

last time mneme disagreed like this he was scum

just so you know

[Mookeh]

Thanks Captain Meta. Now are you gonna continue drifting through this game on cruise control or are you gonna answer my questions? Btw, you must've accused pretty much everyone of being scum about now.

[Oman]

Mookeh, you are so wrong. Please stop engaging in this pissing contest because you're ammount of wrong is starting to look scummy.

[Mookeh]

Mookeh, you are so wrong. Please stop engaging in this pissing contest because you're ammount of wrong is starting to look scummy.

I'll repeat myself once more for you.

Prove it

. Quote where I'm in the wrong, say

why

I am in the wrong. I keep pointing out JDodge had real shitty reasons, and I'm not hearing any counterarguments aside from the oh-so-useful

"You are wrong!"

. After having asked three times, I also haven't received any answers to my questions.

And what do you mean, 'starting to look scummy'? You already thought I was acting scummily.

[Flyinghawk]

I replaced your writing with my own writing, oman, and i quoted you if I responded to your actual writing

Just out of curiosity, with 8 people does it take 5 or 4 to lynch?

On the other website I had played upon, generally it took half of the votes to lynch with an even number of players, and half votes+1 to lynch with an odd number of players. At mafiascum, it appears to be half+1 for all lynches, which is new to me. So yes, I asked the question "just out of curiosity" because I was unsure whether 5 or 4 votes were needed, but was also aware that the truth of the matter would be made aware to me once a fourth vote was placed on someone.

Also, i would like to put out that from the role quotes that it looks like the mafia can't NK anyone,

Once again, this is me trying to understand the rules. I'm not claiming anywhere that I am a mafia expert(although I am a bit more educated than I was when I first started the game) I had not seen a set up similar to this before, and I was just understanding the character roles out loud. Furthermore, (without checking to verify) the very next post, I think, was someone(jennar or joost) saying they had not realized this fact either.
I'd say post 72 is wagoning. Especially as as soon as CKD Unvotes, FH's next post also unvotes and FoSes the same player CKD voted.

my interpretation of the rules seems to be that the mafia aren't that different from the town. The one real scum is the serial killer, whereas the 2 mafia look like that type of scum who are inept at doing anything important

Isn't this something we all agree on now? I had figured this out from this early point in the game, I believe pre-Jennar claim, that the Mafia are pretty helpless in comparison to other game's mafia. Without a NK, the mafia are rendered useless in terms of the big threat in a game. The only one with any night power is the Serial Killer, so obviously he's the biggest threat, THEN followed by the mafia. I took this a step farther and postulated that

hypothetically

, this game could be set up as 2 seperate groups of townies(one being the good town, and one being the hapless mafia) both trying to win, but both also against the one power in the game: the SK. There are 3 townies as opposed to the 2 mafia, but the mafia knows who the other person in their group is, which is their advantage. This means that This game makes those two groups very balanced, which is basically what I was trying to point out.

Post 202, he likes any of CKD's arguments that are aimed at Jennar and hates any of them aimed at him.

Obviously, hmm? I'm not going to say "good work there CKD" when he's bashing me. Of course, up until the Jennar claim I was very adamant that Jennar was mafia, and I readily agreed with CKD's arguments against Jennar.
Furthermore, i never stated 'hate' in any of my posts abot CKDs argument. once again, obviously i disagreed from them, though, and i still do.

His analysis of Ckillor/White is off too. Its very appologetic and quite "They're not scummy, but...uh...they could be" by which I mean he's giving a possible buddy "town" markings but not letting a connection form.

Ehh, at this point in time, Ckillor had barely posted anything of content, and I don't generally like to decide if someone is scummy or not based upon lurking. Its not a protown tell definetly, but, especially in ckillors case, i would argue against it being a scum tell (as he was probably to busy to play and this was the reason why he got replaced).
Also, at this point in the game, White had just joined the game, and all he had done was ask a boatload of questions. Protown, at the time definetely, but i was under the impression that this was just something that White would do at the beginning of the game in order to be put in a positive light. Furthermore, i felt that perhaps after a couple of days he would become less active, as the need to look super pro town would have dissipated somewhat. And, I was right in this assumption.

Never once did i say the mafia weren't scum, or that i considered the mafia any less scummy than in other mafia games

Umm..

The

one real scum

is the serial killer, whereas the 2 mafia look like that

type of scum who are inept

at doing anything important

You said the mafia can't do anything which marks off "any less scummy" and you said the SK is the "One real scum" which marks of "mafia weren't scum"

All I meant was that I thought people were implying that i thought mafia were pro-town this game, and I was not implying this at all. Clearing things up. You can dilly dally in what language I used to portray this(in retrospect, definetely not the most clear) but in the end, this is what i was trying to say, nothing more. YES mafia are scum! YES mafia are scummy! but NO, they cannot NK. No matter what you took from what i said above, these things hold true. Because the mafia can't NK, they ARE less DANGEROUS than normal mafia. it is impossible to prove otherwise.

FOS:Edion0
FOS:CuriousKarmaDog
FOS: Bird1111

Blah,blah,blah. I did not want to FOS any of these people, I did because someone(i believe CKD) said that i was making an analyzation of the game without making any suspects. Generally, when there are suspects, they are put down as "top 3 suspected people" lists. I was trying to do this in another way.


Keep 'em coming.


oh, and perhaps, listen to me and check out Mneme again? I can quote my posts in which I post why he is a possible SK candidate if necessery, and furthermore, I can try to find more SK-tells from him. Thanks.

[Oman]

Without a NK, the mafia are rendered useless in terms of the big threat in a game.

This is crap. They can still push mislynches to get the game won.

one being the good town, and one being the hapless mafia

They're not hapless, they're malicious!

I'm not going to say "good work there CKD" when he's bashing me

No, but you speak of them as the wrongest wrong to ever wrong.

All I meant was that I thought people were implying that i thought mafia were pro-town this game, and I was not implying this at all.

this game could be set up as

2 seperate groups of townies

Because the mafia can't NK, they ARE less DANGEROUS than normal mafia. it is impossible to prove otherwise.

TRUE! They are

less

dangerous then other games' mafia, but that doesn't mean they bear flowers and gifts.

and furthermore, I can try to find more SK-tells from him

Would love you to. I'm sure you and your scumbuddy want to find the SK as much as us.

[kuribo]

Without a NK, the mafia are rendered useless in terms of the big threat in a game. The only one with any night power is the Serial Killer, so obviously he's the biggest threat, THEN followed by the mafia. I took this a step farther and postulated that

hypothetically

, this game could be set up as 2 seperate groups of townies(one being the good town, and one being the hapless mafia) both trying to win, but both also against the one power in the game: the SK.

You will never convince us that the mafia is trying to help us. This is a very scummy sentiment to me.

All I meant was that I thought people were implying that i thought mafia were pro-town this game, and I was not implying this at all.

Seems to me that not only were you doing that, you're STILL doing that in so many words.

Because the mafia can't NK, they ARE less DANGEROUS than normal mafia.

But they still get two votes and therefore ARE dangerous. They can sit back and let the SK do the NK's while they build false cases against the town.

Blah,blah,blah. I did not want to FOS any of these people, I did because someone(i believe CKD) said that i was making an analyzation of the game without making any suspects.

So you only did the FoS's because you were expected to? Not a town statement there, either.

Any lingering doubt I may have had about you being at the very least, mafia, are pretty much gone.

[kuribo]

ugh, god, will i never get the hang of the quote function?!

[Oman]

You're just missing " " around flyinghawk or whatever you want there.

Kuribo, I said the same thing with better quotes above.

[Mookeh]

Kuribo, I said the same thing with better quotes above.

True, but Kuribo had one interesting addition you skipped. I also think the "I FoSed them because others expected me to" bit is really iffy.

[Oman]

Not really, I thought the "its essentially a suspects list" covered it well.

[kuribo]

Not really, I thought the "its essentially a suspects list" covered it well.

But the impression I take from it is that he didn't want to put up a list of suspects at all, or that he hadn't really thought it out.


If he didn't want to FoS people, he shouldn't have, and he certainly shouldn't have done it because he was expected to.

It's perfectly possible to post a list of suspects without FoS'ing them. All those FoS's just make him look scummier.

[mneme]

FH, as I've mentioned quite a number of times, the mafia are only a lesser threat at the moment because we've figured out you're mafia. Otherwise, they cause the game to end on day 3 if none of them have been eliminated yet, whereas the SK cannot win until night 3, or even night 4 if we no-lynch on day 3.

Anyway, I'm not interested in FH, since I'm pretty convinced he's mafia and we don't want to lynch mafia today (and not because 'they're not the real threat', if you please).

For me, I think it's between Mookeh and JDodge at the moment.

[Flyinghawk]

All I meant was that I thought people were implying that i thought mafia were pro-town this game, and I was not implying this at all.

this game could be set up as

2 seperate groups of townies

are you kidding Oman? you took that second sentence totally out of context!
I said HYPOTHETICALLY, I even put it in italics so it would be obvious that is the way I meant it. If you refuse to use your brain when reading my responses, at least don't make stupid quotes like that.

What I mean was, if HYPOTHETICALLY, the title of the game was changed to "Baby,wheres the scum?" and the townies were called "townie Group A" and the Mafia were called "townie Group B", the gameplay this time would be no different.

Someone said above "the mafia aren't hapless, There malicious!" because the mafia try to end the townies life.
But in visa versa mode, the townies are maliciously trying to end the mafia's life!

In a game with the mafia having a NK, its obvious that the mafia are bad because they get to murder someone every night. This is not true in this game.

Someone else stated that "the mafia are not less dangerous than normal because they can cause misdirection and false claims"
But the mafia can do this in every game! In most games, the mafia can 'cause misdirection and false claims' AND have a NK.
In this game, they can only 'cause misdirection and false claims'.

so YES, they are less dangerous. Not good, not by any stretch of the imagination, but they aren't AS dangerous.
Anyways, the whole time this has been the point I have been trying to make. If you guys still are unable to understand this and want me to explain it in yet a different way, I will do so. But what I would prefer to do is get back to looking for the Serial Killer.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok, getting my bird on. Will have light posts for the rest of the day, then I wont return until Monday...posting it all of my games

unvote, for now. I dont want anything bizarre happening in here and I cant change my vote, but if everything remains the same, will be putting it back on Monday.

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote

[Flameaxe]

Joost has been prodded.

!VC

Mneme [3](Flyinghawk, Kuribo, Oman)

Mookeh[1](Jdodge)

Not Voting[4](Joost, Mneme, CKD, Mookeh).

Deadline Nov. 29 at 1:30 AM EST. Go go go go. I demand moar :goodposting:!

[mneme]

MOD: PLEASE UPDATE THE FIRST POST WITH CURRENT REPLACEMENTS!

FH: you're already in a hole. Stop digging.

Sitting back isn't getting us anywhere. I'm not sure who I want to lynch, but as it's not YT, not Oman, not CKD, not Flyinghawk (today) and not joost (today), I'll have to

vote: kuribo

as my best guess for the SK (slightly above Jdodge and Mookeh).

[Flameaxe]

MOD: PLEASE UPDATE THE FIRST POST WITH CURRENT REPLACEMENTS!

FH: you're already in a hole. Stop digging.

Sitting back isn't getting us anywhere. I'm not sure who I want to lynch, but as it's not YT, not Oman, not CKD, not Flyinghawk (today) and not joost (today), I'll have to

vote: kuribo

as my best guess for the SK (slightly above Jdodge and Mookeh).

Jeep seems to be behind on replacement mod powers (Ask Jdodge about 497), as soon as I get them it will be updated.