Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over


User avatar
Lil Uzi Vert
Lil Uzi Vert
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Lil Uzi Vert
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 16278
Joined: August 9, 2016

Post Post #525 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:50 pm

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

In post 524, Shadow_step wrote:Calling me a VI? Okay that is just bullshit.
Esp since you have no idea with am I talking about.
Never called you a VI, I thought you was one though. Why so angry?

And you're right, I don't know what you're talking about, but no one else does either. Mind sharing what knowledge you may or may not have to determine how you're finding this game easier then the rest of us?
User avatar
Shadow_step
Shadow_step
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Shadow_step
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2956
Joined: May 12, 2016
Location: 221B, Baker Street

Post Post #526 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:51 pm

Post by Shadow_step »

At the right time.
Show
The shadows betray you, because they serve me.

"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach

"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel
User avatar
Zoronos
Zoronos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Zoronos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1488
Joined: April 6, 2015

Post Post #527 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:02 pm

Post by Zoronos »

In post 457, Grendel wrote:UNVOTE:

I need to sort Gamma asap
Gamma is probably town. Also, the odds of Gamma and PP being scum together is very low. If they are, they've been working very hard to distance from each other all game. I think it's more likely at least one is town. They've been sniping at one another pretty consistently this game.
Unless PP has decided he's dead and Gamma is already on the bus and PP is just waving for the train to complete, I don't see them being a scum team pair. Likelyhood of both scum: Low.
User avatar
Zoronos
Zoronos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Zoronos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1488
Joined: April 6, 2015

Post Post #528 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:04 pm

Post by Zoronos »

In post 512, Gamma Emerald wrote:I'm feeling like the most likely person to be scum on PP's wagon was Dierfire. Also, my SS read has shifted to the town side.
VOTE: Dierfire
I'm not convinced yet that PP is town, but I agree that amongst the cases on PP, I dislike Dierfire's case. (As can be surmised from my initial question, and response above this). So, I am vaguely in support of this sentiment.
User avatar
podoboq
podoboq
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
podoboq
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3021
Joined: November 7, 2015
Location: Cincy

Post Post #529 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:21 pm

Post by podoboq »

Official Vote Count 1.12
LynchingWith 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

PenguinPower
(3): Shadow_step, boring, Dierfire
Gamma Emerald
(3): implosion, PenguinPower, MariaR
boring
(2): eagerSnake, Prism
DierFire
(1): Gamma Emerald

Not Voting
(4): Zoronos, Lil Uzi Vert, nn30, Grendel


V/LA
: Gamma Emerald

Deadline
: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)
Last edited by podoboq on Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:51 am, edited 4 times in total.
eagerSnake - "Fwiw mod steals pagetops while driving. Still think they wouldn't put in 2 people with ascetic?"
User avatar
Zoronos
Zoronos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Zoronos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1488
Joined: April 6, 2015

Post Post #530 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:31 pm

Post by Zoronos »

In post 519, PenguinPower wrote:Second question: That's a strange conclusion. I think there a some town on my wagon that seem to be doing worthwhile things, and if my lynch gets them moving on the right track, then...yeah. String me up.
In this theoretical world, who are the town on your wagon?
User avatar
Dierfire
Dierfire
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Dierfire
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3083
Joined: February 17, 2015

Post Post #531 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:31 pm

Post by Dierfire »

@PenguinPower
In post 519, PenguinPower wrote:That's a strange conclusion. I think there a some town on my wagon that seem to be doing worthwhile things, and if my lynch gets them moving on the right track, then...yeah. String me up.
Is it not an accurate conclusion? Which players on your wagon are Town doing worthwhile things? Which are suspicious folk?

EDIT: Ha ha, that was my question!
User avatar
Dierfire
Dierfire
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Dierfire
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3083
Joined: February 17, 2015

Post Post #532 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:32 pm

Post by Dierfire »

@Grendel
In post 520, Grendel wrote:If you could explain these reads soon that'd be nice-
Sorry, I got distracted. Here is my reasoning.

implosion
has a few consistencies of thought. I liked the vote for Lil Uzi Vert in , and the reaction to Gamma Emerald in . These are consistent with the evolving reads presented in (implosion was initially suspicious of Grendel, Zoronos, and eagerSnake, so it makes sense that he would move his vote to a wagon like Lil Uzi Vert).
He also has good points on Gamma (, , ).
Lastly, the read on PenguinPower given in is thoughtful and makes clear effort to understand motivations for actions (although I suspect that when I read the game in question I will be able to come up with at least two reasons for the mismatch).

As a side note, I recall implosion as a source of quality analysis in a prior game (link--I'm not counting Mini 1762 because I never actually played). I'm therefore aware of what implosion said in ; still, I think that these points make implosion more likely to be Town.

nn30
is a seemingly uncontroversial read, so I'll be brief. The look at prior games in indicates a certain amount of motivation to discover information. I also agree with points raised by Zoronos in .

As for you (Grendel)
, I think that your RQS is probably not indicative of alignment, but your reaction to those who question RQS (in particular the last line of your ) seems more likely to come from a Town player (there's a path of less resistance if you're Mafia just looking to fabricate some reads). Your case on PenguinPower agrees with my read and does not strike me as likely to come from a Mafia partner (unlike Gamma Emerald); this is further reinforced by the way that PenguinPower responds to you.
User avatar
Dierfire
Dierfire
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Dierfire
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3083
Joined: February 17, 2015

Post Post #533 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:32 pm

Post by Dierfire »

@Zoronos
In post 523, Zoronos wrote:So, you're either missing an obvious cause for the tone shift, or not understanding the tone shift. There is a better case available against Penguin (in my mind), so I'm really curious why you chose this specific case.
I suppose that the best explanation that I could give is this: I'm not seeing the tone shift from aggressive to dismissive, but more like aggressive/dismissive to avoidant.
If you see a better case (and if it doesn't look to be related to my existing line of questioning), I would like to hear it (particularly given your most recent posting).
User avatar
Zoronos
Zoronos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Zoronos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1488
Joined: April 6, 2015

Post Post #534 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:20 pm

Post by Zoronos »

In post 533, Dierfire wrote:I suppose that the best explanation that I could give is this: I'm not seeing the tone shift from aggressive to dismissive, but more like aggressive/dismissive to avoidant.
If you see a better case (and if it doesn't look to be related to my existing line of questioning), I would like to hear it (particularly given your most recent posting).
I may be projecting, since I moved from aggressive/dismissive to straight up dismissive. But, I think that's the accurate read on Penguin's tone and that yours is wrong.

The case I would make, if I were doing one, would look about like this:
I'd be focusing on if I were looking at Penguin's interactions with Grendal was his pejorative "Are you a first year psych student or something?" -> It's an attack on credibility of the player, rather than the argument.

I think his original case () on Gamma was flawed. He cracks back at Gamma for Gamma's Implosion vote (Implosion talked about A, then voted B without any further mention of that player), which was an incongruence on the part of Implosion; I can see a town mindset where Gamma brings that up. So painting it as scummy is incorrect. Going after Gamma for it is not really reasonable; it's searching for something that can be painted as guilty but which has no real correlation with guilt.
Similarly, going after the wording 'serious vote' is silly; why is clarity suddenly a scumtell.
I attempted to engage him on Gamma, but he just waved it away without discussion () then voted . I can kinda see a world here were PP thinks I'm just a moron, and envisions an Implosion / Gamma scum team, but he already got on Gamma's case for voting Implosion, and now he's voting Gamma for thinking Implosion is town.
So, yeah, I think Penguin's case on Gamma was built on a heap of not alignment indicating factors, and that to me says it's a bad case and one worthy of attack.

He's also not spending any time working with other players or cooperatively developing reads. He's camped out in his own valley, where he mostly just squabbles with Gamma and Grendel; not very contributory towards the greater town objective.

However
I am not really ready to make that case yet. There are some counter indicating factors I'd like to sort out first.
Reading the connecting theme of his posts, there is a strong tone of aggrieved frustration. Between asking for the lynch to complete, complaining at Grendal about his methodology (without calling Grendal scum, this is important), and generally just sniping at Gamma. When he noted that Salandar's slot was afk, that's could be a legitimate frustration. Having someone just not participate is shitty for town, so it's easy to envision a town getting annoyed at an obvious oversight. For scum it's much less of an issue (unless that slot is also scum) since it's one less person they have to trick.

I also think your commentary in is off base. It's NAI (in my opinion) for him to note it. He responded to Grendel (in a frustrated fashion), posted about an AFK, and then went right back to talking to Grendel. It wasn't some epic deflection.
User avatar
MariaR
MariaR
Alternatively,
User avatar
User avatar
MariaR
Alternatively,
Alternatively,
Posts: 19765
Joined: July 11, 2016

Post Post #535 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:55 pm

Post by MariaR »

VI means?
I bet Maria is scum this game
~Firebringer
Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
Charloux

MariaR goes for the uwu owo tsundere-dere look but you never know if she has a knife behind her back.~
Bitmap
User avatar
MariaR
MariaR
Alternatively,
User avatar
User avatar
MariaR
Alternatively,
Alternatively,
Posts: 19765
Joined: July 11, 2016

Post Post #536 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:56 pm

Post by MariaR »

UNVOTE:
I bet Maria is scum this game
~Firebringer
Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
Charloux

MariaR goes for the uwu owo tsundere-dere look but you never know if she has a knife behind her back.~
Bitmap
User avatar
Zoronos
Zoronos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Zoronos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1488
Joined: April 6, 2015

Post Post #537 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:25 pm

Post by Zoronos »

In post 535, MariaR wrote:VI means?
Village Idiot.
User avatar
PenguinPower
PenguinPower
He/Him
.peng
User avatar
User avatar
PenguinPower
He/Him
.peng
.peng
Posts: 24420
Joined: June 15, 2016
Pronoun: He/Him

Post Post #538 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:07 am

Post by PenguinPower »

In post 530, Zoronos wrote:In this theoretical world, who are the town on your wagon?
Grendel, boring, nn30, maybe you. Of course, several have dropped off my wagon now.
User avatar
nn30
nn30
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
nn30
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1457
Joined: August 15, 2016

Post Post #539 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:51 am

Post by nn30 »

In post 466, Gamma Emerald wrote:Actually, she doesn't really seem to be trying to lead, so she's solid town.
Not trying to lead is indicative of scum, not town.
User avatar
nn30
nn30
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
nn30
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1457
Joined: August 15, 2016

Post Post #540 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:57 am

Post by nn30 »

In post 470, MariaR wrote:
Shadow being paranoid about me being scum with faking a reaction screams town to me I know he's good enough to fake it but I think looking at his other posts he can be town aswell
I don't agree with this logic. He has presented two options - you could be genuinely pissed about a hammer or you could be faking it. He buttered you up by saying you're a good enough player to fake it.
User avatar
nn30
nn30
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
nn30
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1457
Joined: August 15, 2016

Post Post #541 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:07 am

Post by nn30 »


Made me laugh.

Well done.
User avatar
nn30
nn30
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
nn30
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1457
Joined: August 15, 2016

Post Post #542 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:22 am

Post by nn30 »

In post 477, Gamma Emerald wrote:Reads atm, not ordered by strentgh, just who I chose.
S_S: null scum
In post 485, Gamma Emerald wrote: As for ShadowStep, I want him to not be as tunnely.
In post 503, Gamma Emerald wrote: @PP: Because SS seems to be faking content.
In post 512, Gamma Emerald wrote: Also, my SS read has shifted to the town side.
VOTE: Dierfire
@Gamma - I 100% call BS.

Shadow Step said precisely nothing between 477 and 512 when you switch your read on him. At best this is town!Gamma being inconsistent / changing his mind on a read without explaining why. At worst it's scum!Gamma not being careful with what he says and being caught out.

@Town - I previously stated that I meta dived Gamma. In none of his town games (I read through 3) did he make a point to state town reads as they happen. He scum hunted and stated scum reads - never town reads.

In this game he's explicitly stated things that Luv & Snake were doing were town tells. He's explicitly said "I think you're town" to Shadow_Step, LUV, and Implosion.

Gamma smells
very
scummy to me.

VOTE: Gamma
User avatar
nn30
nn30
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
nn30
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1457
Joined: August 15, 2016

Post Post #543 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:00 am

Post by nn30 »

To add on - the reason his stating so many town tells feels scummy is that scum already know who town is - they have perfect information - what better way to gain cred with the town than "reading" their play and letting them know that he thinks they're town?
User avatar
Zoronos
Zoronos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Zoronos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1488
Joined: April 6, 2015

Post Post #544 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:14 am

Post by Zoronos »

In post 538, PenguinPower wrote:Grendel, boring, nn30, maybe you. Of course, several have dropped off my wagon now.
I am (pointedly) not voting you. You're not my top suspect. Anyway.

I'm really not sure what to think about Boring at this point; what makes you think she's town? She's in the middle of my ???? bucket.
I may be giving her less credit than she deserves because of that 'small coat' metaphor.
User avatar
nn30
nn30
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
nn30
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1457
Joined: August 15, 2016

Post Post #545 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:23 am

Post by nn30 »

@Zoro - what are your thoughts on my 542?
User avatar
eagerSnake
eagerSnake
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
eagerSnake
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3821
Joined: May 29, 2016

Post Post #546 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:37 am

Post by eagerSnake »

Zoronos what are your thoughts on:

MariaR
Grendel
boring
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 69100
Joined: August 9, 2016
Pronoun: She/It
Location: Hell on Earth (aka Texas)

Post Post #547 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:03 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 543, nn30 wrote:To add on - the reason his stating so many town tells feels scummy is that scum already know who town is - they have perfect information - what better way to gain cred with the town than "reading" their play and letting them know that he thinks they're town?
This case is bs
<Embrace The Void>


My pronouns are she and it, please respect that. I don't mind the occasional slip.
User avatar
eagerSnake
eagerSnake
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
eagerSnake
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3821
Joined: May 29, 2016

Post Post #548 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:05 am

Post by eagerSnake »

In post 547, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 543, nn30 wrote:To add on - the reason his stating so many town tells feels scummy is that scum already know who town is - they have perfect information - what better way to gain cred with the town than "reading" their play and letting them know that he thinks they're town?
This case is bs
This defense is bs
User avatar
nn30
nn30
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
nn30
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1457
Joined: August 15, 2016

Post Post #549 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:20 am

Post by nn30 »

In post 547, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 543, nn30 wrote:To add on - the reason his stating so many town tells feels scummy is that scum already know who town is - they have perfect information - what better way to gain cred with the town than "reading" their play and letting them know that he thinks they're town?
This case is bs
Instead of reacting to the whole case you chose to react to a single part of it which, on it's own, would indeed be a BS case.

That's why cases are made up of multiple pieces.

More Gamma votes please.
Locked

Return to “Completed Mini Normal Games”