Open 44 - Twofold Mafia: GAME OVER! before 506


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Post Post #675 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:00 am

Post by pwayne66 »

shaft wrote:Sounds like the classic too townie fallacy. Why aren't more people voting for Tobiassen?
Fallacies aren't always scumtells. tobi didn't vote for Jdodge only said that he thought he was a good player and required extra watchin'.

I take it that you think that tobi is more likely very very bad scum than very bad and disinterested newbie. Is this accurate?
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Post Post #676 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:03 am

Post by shaft.ed »

pwayne66 wrote:
shaft wrote:Sounds like the classic too townie fallacy. Why aren't more people voting for Tobiassen?
Fallacies aren't always scumtells. tobi didn't vote for Jdodge only said that he thought he was a good player and required extra watchin'.

I take it that you think that tobi is more likely very very bad scum than very bad and disinterested newbie. Is this accurate?
I'm reading him as scum right now. I guess it's because I've been burned in a couple games recently where I gave erratic play too much of the benefit of the doubt and I am trying to adjust accordingly. Two times they've come up scum in my games here, so I'm trying to be more firm in this regard. It seems others think I'm over-reacting. I'll try to get one last re-skim in today to see if my scumdar needs adjusting.
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Post Post #677 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:15 am

Post by Tobiassen »

shaft.ed i know you're secretly in love with me, and have no fear, i'm chaning avvie soon, lookin for that picture i want O.o
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Post Post #678 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:22 am

Post by pwayne66 »

... on the other hand... I have advocated lynching people just b/c they are obnoxious...
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Post Post #679 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:41 am

Post by Rishi »

pwayne66 wrote:... on the other hand... I have advocated lynching people just b/c they are obnoxious...
I'm not totally against the "lynch all wild cards" philosophy. Even if the person isn't scum, they end up being a liability later in the game.

I still don't know what to do about Tobiassen. He is a wild card, but he seems harmless to me.
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Post Post #680 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:45 am

Post by Tobiassen »

yay, im harmless :]
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Post Post #681 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:53 am

Post by Tobiassen »

that's not what shaft.ed would say O.o
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Post Post #682 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:58 am

Post by pwayne66 »

No, I imagine that he would say that you are worthless. Why not prove him wrong?
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Post Post #683 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:18 am

Post by Tobiassen »

hmm,
need to search wiki ehow on how to make myself not worthless then O.o

cuz i suck at making people think that i am, i'm just am,
and if i'm killed, i'll be missed,

it's the hard life.
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Post Post #684 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:19 am

Post by Rishi »

Tobiassen wrote:hmm,
need to search wiki ehow on how to make myself not worthless then O.o

cuz i suck at making people think that i am, i'm just am,
and if i'm killed, i'll be missed,

it's the hard life.
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Post Post #685 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:54 am

Post by Tobiassen »

noted.
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Post Post #686 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:57 am

Post by TylerJ »

yeah tob, post something of actual content I'm being persuaded more and more that you are scum and not just a newb, you don't even try.

Note on Jdodge. I can't reference a game, but I played a game with Jdodge before when he provided no Reasons for voting. He didn't once scum hunt. Town lynched him and he was a town. This could be a scam that he uses to esape the radar when he is scum, I don't know. All I know was that he wasn't contributing at all in the game and he came up town.
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Post Post #687 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:11 pm

Post by shaft.ed »

TylerJ wrote:yeah tob, post something of actual content I'm being persuaded more and more that you are scum and not just a newb, you don't even try.

Note on Jdodge. I can't reference a game, but I played a game with Jdodge before when he provided no Reasons for voting. He didn't once scum hunt. Town lynched him and he was a town. This could be a scam that he uses to esape the radar when he is scum, I don't know. All I know was that he wasn't contributing at all in the game and he came up town.
JDodge is very active on site. I haven't played with him, but his general style is to lay fairly low early game. Then turn it up a bit once more information is available (you can see this in his Dasq loves waffles post). It's a very effective style as it gets him through the game without much posting which means dropping fewer scum tells regardless of alignment.

I'm about to be out of the thread until iminent deadline. I'm pretty certain I'm going to leave my vote on Tob over my time away. Him + Max = scummy. I don't really like lordy's play, but bandwagoning him and ChronX has just been far too easy for the number of tells given off. Also not liking Rishi much, but that's a more subtle issue, which I think will be cleared up as the game progresses further. ckillor is also scummy, but not replaced yet, it seems like a poor move for the town to lynch someone without any defense (or subsequent discussion) when other D1 candidates are also worthy.
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Post Post #688 (ISO) » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:06 pm

Post by TylerJ »

The little part about you being harmless tob isn't ture, even if you are innocent, you are a liability in the fact that you don't provide much content.
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Post Post #689 (ISO) » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:40 am

Post by somestrangeflea »

4

lordy - 4 (Sikario8, ckillor, aioqwe, TylerJ)
Tobiassen - 2 (shaft.ed, Dasquian)
Sikario8 - 1 (groinhammer)
ckillor - 1 (pwayne66)
Dasquian - 1 (JDodge)
JDodge - 1 (lordy)

Not Voting - Rishi, Tobiassen

12 alive, 7 to lynch, 4 at deadline.


Deadline in 3 days, 6 hours, 20 minutes.
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Post Post #690 (ISO) » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:49 am

Post by Dasquian »

I am still happy with my Tob vote. I think he's a good candidate for scum, and if not, isn't someone we want in end-game. Sorry dude, I give everyone a fair shake but you've been in this game a while now and haven't really managed to make any coherent arguments, as well as dropping a couple of cliched scum-tells.

Sure, they're so obvious that the WIFOM "I wouldn't do that as scum, duh!" argument usually carries weight, but in Tob's case, I do feel that he might genuinely be stumbling into classic scum pit-traps.

From a numbers game, and assuming lordy to be town, I think there is likely to be at least one or two scum on his wagon, and with Sikario almost certainly town, that's likely where I'll be looking tomorrow (unless lordy gets lynched and shows up as scum, in which case I'll probably be trying not to get lynched myself).
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Post Post #691 (ISO) » Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:25 am

Post by somestrangeflea »

Korlash replaces ckillor!
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Post Post #692 (ISO) » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:24 am

Post by Rishi »

Hi Korlash! Does that give us a full list of players again?

I don't want Tobiassen alive in an endgame situation either. However, there are way too many variables with two Mafia groups being in the game that I have no idea when lynch-or-lose will come.

In fact, in some situations, the endgame won't even make that much of a difference. For example: 2 Townies, 1 Mafia A, 1 Mafia B, the lynch is practically irrelevant. If the lynch is of a Mafia, the other Mafia will kill a townie and win. So the actual better lynch is of a townie - the town can only win with a cross-kill.

Remember, this is not a normal setup. Both of the Mafia groups need the town to help eliminate the other Mafia group. Having a wild card in the mix means that it is one person that you can't push in one direction or the other. The Mafia could see him as a liability and kill him themselves at some point (or if the Mafia suspect he's part of the other Mafia group).

Besides, I'm not fully convinced that Tobiassen won't be replaced by the time an endgame situation comes up.
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Post Post #693 (ISO) » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:37 am

Post by Dasquian »

Does that mean that you think Tobiassen is more likely to be town than scum? If so, why?
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Post Post #694 (ISO) » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:25 am

Post by Rishi »

Dasquian wrote:Does that mean that you think Tobiassen is more likely to be town than scum? If so, why?
I do. He's playing like a clueless newbie. If he was a clueless scum newbie, he'd be clueless while following other people's suspicions and voting for the person most likely to get lynched (in this case, lordy).
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Post Post #695 (ISO) » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:55 am

Post by Korlash »

Sup...

Hmmm deadlined already... Ok I guess I'll start that ever dreaded read up and get back to you in a bit...
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Post Post #696 (ISO) » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:17 am

Post by Tobiassen »

damn, gl Korlash. rereading this is a mess.
I gave up and voted for ze doctor ^^,

and btw, i dont think Alaska is a real place.
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Post Post #697 (ISO) » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:32 am

Post by Korlash »

... Oh it isn't... Alaska is more a state of denial then an actual state.. but living here is fun sometimes...

Well I'm half there... should be caught up by tonight unless something catastrophic happens.. like The end of the world, or I stub my toe or something like that...
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Post Post #698 (ISO) » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:58 am

Post by Korlash »

Alright caught up to page 22 now.. I need a break... :|

Um... Initial thoughts...

CA/Panzer/Sikario8-Rishi scum pair
Theopor/pwayne66-JDodge As the other...

Why? Not really gunna go into it as it is all based on the first 20 pages and as a replacement extrodinaire(sp?) i know how useless anything I bring up from that long ago is. So when i get back I will actually be forming a case off these last 6 pages I have to reread.

Other thoughts: I don't really like Dasquian or GH so far. But they really haven't done anything to actually make me think they is scum yet. Just bad vibes...

I get a town vibe from Tyler.. simply because his style/way of thinking is so much like my own I cannot actually see him as scum.

As usual Shaft.ed seems like the "Pro-town" guy and the good thinker so far... I can never really say anything bad about him...

I really haven't been following the wagon on ChronX so far so... I may need to look at him again...

Nothing yet on Lordy really... I didn't like how Max played but ehh... I can't say much for the way my predecessor played either...

And I even almost forgot aioqwe was playing... Ehh... Nothing to go on really... Seemed a bit lurkish to me lately...

Ok those are all my initial thoughts. Take them as you will. I will probably be changing my thinking now that I am in "Vote mode" More later tonight. For now I have to go see a movie with buddies of mine...
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Post Post #699 (ISO) » Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:55 pm

Post by TylerJ »

he'd be clueless while following other people's suspicions and voting for the person most likely to get lynched (in this case, lordy).

That seems more like scum than townie.
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