Newbie 509 - Game Over

[spurgistan]

Vote: Dean Harper

for having a real-sounding name. Didn't you get the memo, this is the Internet, hombre. Real names are for losers [fingers in L shape on forehead]

[spurgistan]

I

nexperience-

C

hallenged player (Essentially, not a newbie, each newbie game has 5 newbies and 2 IC players)

[spurgistan]

I think so too. Although that's just sad. Feel free to ask me if you need things answered, anyways. It's just I sure as hell don't listen to myself, don't know why you would

[spurgistan]

Why would you FOS somebody for possibly being an IC? Experience doesn't make you any more likely to be scum, and anyways, IRC games are about as different then forum games as cricket to baseball (similar, and it's easier to figure one out if you know the other, but they are far from being the same thing) Anyways, this IC/Newbie thing is designed so that we don't have a game with 7 players all new to forum Mafia, if there are more experienced players than need be, it should be a better game.

[spurgistan]

Firstly, nice name. Secondly, I don't like getting into fights over quibbling stuff day early 1, that always seems to be townies trying like hell to get each other lynched (at least in my most recent games, the first two to get into a verbal fistfight page two ended up getting lynched despite being town)

I definitely think everybody who hasn't (and I feel like there are a few of us here who haven't) should check the Wiki out. Even if you've played a ton before, but not her (Xyl) there's plenty of stuff we do differently here. Thanks.

[spurgistan]

If your going to run unofficial vote counts, you might as well list who voted for who. And like I said before, I try to stay above the fray the first few pages simply because information doesn't really start coming out until after townies stop strawmanning each other.

[spurgistan]

Glad Dean got out of range, I think he's scumhunting very aggressively for a first-time player, hate to see him get lynched for that. Broad-brush

FoS

on everybody who voted him, especially Xylthim. Still can't spell that. Xylthixlm. There you go.

[spurgistan]

Adds a nice touch. And I don't have anything against Xyl in general, actually, and quicklynches are something of a staple of IRC games, in my past experience, so putting somebody at L-1 50 posts in wouldn't be all that unusual to him - it's just something that draws attention to him in this game, since we like to take things slower.

[spurgistan]

Well, it seems like every newbie game I'm in, we tag team an annoying newbie who turns out to be town (like me in Newbie 391 , and don't really get much out of it, because in the end, everybody agrees they would have lynched him. In retrospect, it looks weird that I kept my vote on DH while Fos-ing those who voted him; I didn't actually know it was still on him, seeing as how there haven't any official vote-counts. So, since I like what he's trying to do, if not the actions themselves,

Unvote

[spurgistan]

Spurgistan has a Captain Haddock avatar so I won't be hounding him without significant cause. That earned you at least one day of peace.

...wait.

I think he's scumhunting very aggressively for a first-time player, hate to see him get lynched for that. Broad-brush FoS on everybody who voted him, especially Xylthim. Still can't spell that. Xylthixlm.

That smells, though I wish I knew better how to describe why. The "aggressive newbie, let him have his fun" argument for not hanging Dean Harper is kinda messed up, especially in Dean's case. For all we know, you're just trying to defend him from the noose now.

I'm not saying "let him have his fun." I'm saying that I actually like what he's trying to do, he's scumhunting, which is a town-tell. I understand why people are voting him, because he over-reached a bit and bounced his vote around a bit, but I'll bet my pony he's town. Although if he were to start playing like an uber-experienced genius, I'd like that even more.

[spurgistan]

I meant to call out Rishi in that post. Consider yourself called out for not really giving us any substance so far.

FOS

I know it's Thanksgiving, but we experienced scummers aren't supposed to have lives. Get it straight.

[spurgistan]

First partial scumlist, best to worst:
Spurgistan: Flawless play so far, clearly very intelligent as well. Good-looking, too.
Mispeled: No bad vibes from his replacee, has been aggressive thus far this game.
Deano: Good typical newbie. Inexperience showing in his play, but strong protown vibes.
Xyl: Way aggressive out of the gate, but I think chalking that up to IRC games makes a good excuse, typical symptom of chatroom players on Mafiascum.

And then come the lurkers. I can't judge, and probably shouldn't even be posting lists given that half the field has posted less than minimal content.

IGMEOAOY

[spurgistan]

I'll unvote too for now, just in case that helps with the tension here. The Dean Harper thing is, well, interesting... but, I'm not going to bandwagon him just yet. Not that I wouldn't LIKE to but I think he can have a chance to try and escape the noose.

This seems strange as all hell. Sure, it's page 2, but in it, he admits to a) unvoting "to take the tension off" (Why? if somebody's actions didn't earn taking a vote off them, why do it to "avoid pressure?" Pressure is good for the town. And b) asking somebody else to hammer, essentially. If you think he deserves the lynch, lynch him, don't ask some innocent to do the dirty work for you. And c) blaming lack of posting on drunkenness and WoW. While one of these is a much more acceptable reason for lack of posting (not WoW) this games been going for two weeks. You should have more than 4 posts, dude.

Vote: Tenebrys

[spurgistan]

Personally, I thought Cepi's vote was the only one when I voted. I even went back to make sure, but I guess I miscounted. This would be longer, but I have exams out the wazoo. Be back in a bit.

[spurgistan]

Neither of the two dead townies said anything that could point to who killed Mispeled. Tenebrys obviously posted little all game, which is why that one bad post hit me as scummy. Mispeled thought I was lurking for most of the game, but never did more than grunt and say that nobody else was playing particularly effectively, either. So, unless somebody can catch something that I missed (Rishi's point is interesting, but unconvincing for now) day 1 seems to have been something of a waste, only now we are in a Lynch or Lose situation. So yeah, no votes until we know how this is going down.

[spurgistan]

Thanks, Xyl. You are correct. It was an oversight on my part, but it brings up an interesting point - spurgistan posted after my "fun fact" and didn't say anything about my mistake.

Also, I don't find Xyl on Tenebrys's wagon that suspicious. He was the first vote there and the lynch happened so fast that he can't be blamed for not unvoting.

I'm not so sure about spurgistan though, who put the L -1 vote. I actually find that vote more suspicious than Dean Harper's hammer, since it's obvious that DH actually made an effort to find out where the vote count was at, but miscounted. (As evidenced by DH's unvote.) I really hate using the argument that an IC should know better, because I've met some really dumb ICs. But spurgistan, as far as I know (haven't played with him before) is not a really dumb IC. So he should have known better.

What do the rest of you think?

Righto, on that. I didn't say anything because I keep forgetting I had that random vote on DH. And no, I at least like to think I'm not a dumb IC. And yes, I should have checked the vote count. But Cepi's vote really looked like somebody putting a first vote on somebody. I realize this is asking a lot of somebody who's been through a bit on this site. But no, I can honestly say that Tenebrys did not deserve to be put at L-1 by me, not to mention lynched; if anything, he needed a replacement, he hasn't posted since. I like putting people who aren't posting under the microscope, but putting lurkers at -1 is generally a bad decision. If I'd been aware, I'm sure I wouldn't have.

[spurgistan]

After going over the posts again, i agree with Spurgistan. Tenebyrs has not been contributing hardly at all, and what he does contribute is a lot of dodging around what other people have said and trying to make it look like something new.

He has the most amount of suspicion on him from me, and i see no reason to not suspect him as scum. Unless you count the fact that no we really have very little to go on with him. The only other person i suspect about the same as Tene is Xyl, because he unvoted me so quickly. So, without further ado, i give you my

Vote: Tenebrys

Now, Spurg is still high on my priority list, as he put Tene in -1 as an IC which was not a smart thing to do for a townie

OMG, I cant believe u just posted that. Do u remember who hammered Tenebrys? Why are u and Rishi, both attacking Spurgistan with such silly arguments?

SFoS : Dean Harper, Rishi

Yes, i remember Cepi, it was me. Is this really such a "silly argument"?

I mean, it WAS Spurgistan who put him in -1, not me. I voted for Tene for legitimate reasons, and I mad the mistake of hammering him.

So while when you voted, your reasons for voting Tenebrys were the same as mine. You said so. But now, your reasons were "legitimate", while mine, by extension, were not. I'm liking you less after that.

[spurgistan]

And no, DH, a mass-claim (what I think you asked for) would not at all be a good thing, now. We need to lynch one of the scumlords today, or the game is lost. If we manage to pull that off today(40% odds, although I can obviously call that 50% if we don't lynch me) we go into tomorrow with either 3 townies : 1 scum or 2:1, depending on whether or not we get a doc protection (3:1 against). Also, the cop's investiagation becomes incrementally more powerful as the players dwindle. If we have a power role survive the night, that basically wins the game for town. Anyways, in a c-9 game a mass-claim is essentially worthless, as there are only 3 roles with no character names to claim, and anybody can claim vanilla. All that will do is add five posts with everybody claiming vanilla.

So while I seem to be a popular possible scumpartner these days, I'm not really hearing a lot of reasons why. I put Tenebrys at -1, and I'm sorry for that, I had no idea. Looks like he hasn't posted since, so what he really needed was a replacement, anyways. Another brave soldier lost to WoW [shakes head]. But anybody want to point to anything tying me to anybody? I'd love to address it.

[spurgistan]

First off, happy birthday Dean. 16, eh? Congrats.

But then to dispense with that, if I were scum right now, I'd be pretty happy with the way this game is going. Last thing I'd want to do is be aggressive. In fact, if I got lucky and was off the townie bandwagon day 1, I'd be pretty glad with the way this game is going, and would be keeping a very low profile. Which is part of the reason I'd like to hear from Rishi. The other bit being like the fact that I like his analysis, but anyways, anybody feel like sticking their neck out a bit? I personally am willing to express my suspicion of Rishi again.

FOS

[spurgistan]

This isn't an accusation, Rishi, I really like hearing you post. But would you agree that the correct play for scum here, as they're on the verge of winning with no evidence of power roles thus far, would be to sit back and let the townies yell at each other?

[spurgistan]

One thing is Dean, a valuable part of scum-hunting is to see if you can't guess who a player would be partnered with as scum. Going through the thread, it's not entirely obvious who a Cepi scumpartner would be. I guess I voted Tenebrys right after he did, so that could be considered a tell, but I thought that Cepi's was the first vote on the WoW freak. The only other notable interaction anybody has had with Cepi (he's been aggressive, but equally so, more or less; if you are scum, very well played so far) is you (Dean) always hounding him, which is possible busing, but I think we ought to look aways from you guys for a while. I'm a bit confused on Xyl right now, think I'll run a read through and quick n' dirty analysis on him.

[spurgistan]

Xyl, do you have anything to tie those pairings together? Seeing as how this is lylo, we should have a decent plan going forward before we start putting votes on. Additionally, I can't think of any reason why Rishi and cepi are anything like a scumpair. Separately, sure they haven't acquitted themselves well, but I don't see anything tying themselves together.

Oh wait... hmm...

[spurgistan]

Oh hey, I just saw that Risi posted something similiar to this, I've been working offline on papers and such for a while. Cheers!

Interesting, Cepi seems to be getting impatient. Yes, we need to lynch a scumlord today and tomorrow or the baddies lose. But why would a townie be so dead certain of a scum right now? We have to be looking for

two

, or we lose. Even if Rishi is scum (that's non-judgmental, btw; I actually like you as town, Rishi) we're going to have to scope out his partner if we want to pull this out. And yes, the fact that Rishi's hasn't been posting doesn't bode well for the town; but we can't afford to Lynch All Lurkers (not to mention people who haven't been able to make type for MafiaScum, as Rishi seems to be; trust me, people, it happen). But even if he is, getting all pissy at him without looking at who he could possibly be connected to doesn't get us anywhere day 3.

So right now as I type this I'm thinkingthat Cepi is a likely scum for today. My personal theory would involve Xylthixlm being his partner, simply because of the antagonism they've had for each other all game. Crazy, say you? Like a fox, say I. Cepi is new to the game. This is indisputable, and if you are scum, Cepi, then you are really learning fast. But then there's Xylthixlm. He has been in on both bandwagons (Dean and Tenebrys), which of course I was too (as the Fun Facts pointed out) but I would like to highlight the Dean wagon, which he really just jumped all over page 2.
But that's just how IRC players play, yes. But IRC scum, I would argue, even more.
And then there's how Cepi and Xyl have interacted, which is jumping rapidly from being at each others throats (IIRC) to what they've been recently, as in somewhat assured of each other. So, yeah, I like Cepi and Xyl for a scumpairing as of now. Any other thoughts? (Besides you now, Rishi?)

[spurgistan]

If there is a cop with a guilty result, he SHOULD claim now so that we're guaranteed to lynch Mafia. A cop with an innocent result to claim to derail a mislynch, but otherwise, claiming is a bad idea. A doctor should NOT claim.

Why do you think it's a bad idea?

Read this. I couldnt have put it better myself :

And no, DH, a mass-claim (what I think you asked for) would not at all be a good thing, now. We need to lynch one of the scumlords today, or the game is lost. If we manage to pull that off today(40% odds, although I can obviously call that 50% if we don't lynch me) we go into tomorrow with either 3 townies : 1 scum or 2:1, depending on whether or not we get a doc protection (3:1 against). Also, the cop's investiagation becomes incrementally more powerful as the players dwindle. If we have a power role survive the night, that basically wins the game for town. Anyways, in a c-9 game a mass-claim is essentially worthless, as there are only 3 roles with no character names to claim, and anybody can claim vanilla. All that will do is add five posts with everybody claiming vanilla.

This also has a bit to do with Rishi's last post.
Just to clarify, while a massclaim and cop claiming are not one and the same, and my response was to DH's suggestion of the former while Rishi wanted to know if there is a guilty investigation result. However, the math about outing power roles still exists, and given that we're in lylo I'm not quite sure that claiming right now with a guilty is the best play for town. Breadcrumb like woah so that if you're NKed we can try and figure out your investigations, but I'm not sure automatically claiming if you get a guilty makes sense.

[spurgistan]

Finally out from under the iron thumb of exams, once I get back home I'll put some good facts in you

[spurgistan]

Finally, a vote. I'm not convinced of the xyl-cepi pair yet, I still find that a bit curious given their animosity, but I can't think of anybody else Cepi would be paired with. Consider me a) not lurking, I've been really freaking busy with exams and now I'm on break and b) growing more open to a cepi-xylthixlm link.

[spurgistan]

Also, seeing as it's not guaranteed that the scum are on at the same time, quicklynching can be hard to pull off, considering that in IRC games you can be fairly certain that your scumpartner is on. On the forums, if you make a quicklynch-looking vote, and somebody notices before your partner comes on, you're good as dead.

Also, Dean, your logic in 213 works just as well if Rishi is scum. I don't think he is, but if we assume that the fact that nobody has hammered means one of the two of them is scum (I don't think it does, because of the slow pace of this game; I do think the fact that they have been so vindicative toward eachother means that, however) but you can't let the fact that Rishi could be scum slip by. Even if he's been acting as the most pro-town here, he could definitely be scum as long as he hasn't been confirmed in any way.

[spurgistan]

Sorry to check in like this, had been working on a few big posts, but

Vote: Cepi

[spurgistan]

Merry Christmas.

[spurgistan]

Naw, that's game.

[spurgistan]

Good call. That was kind of an ugly game, but regardless, good game Xylthixlm.

[spurgistan]

Just for the record, I actually did think I was putting the second vote on ole Tenebrys. I didn't even lie that much, most of what I said I actually believed. Wish I could have been a bigger part of this game. Hasta luego (or in DH's case, until my next post in 542, coming soon) Peace, dudes.