Mini Normal 1829 - Game Over

[Shadow_step]

Why would you waste a check on me

Because I didn't understand your strong town read one me from both the days.
After blitz flip of maf goon, I was sure there was at least 1 scum on his wagon. I thought if NC is town he probably ly gets killed cause he'll be very hard to mislynh after that flip.
So it was between Thor/Kraska, I ead getting all paranoid that scum! Kraska figured out that I was a town PR from my play and was buddying up to me to prevent me using an NA on her.
That's why I chose kraska.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

^that's town..... imo

[kraska77]

Sigh
Idk
VOTE: karnos

[Thor665]

Voting self is bad play, but so is lynching someone without giving any reasons for it. I don't have time to catchup now.

The scum read exist on you because you're basically doing nothing and you're a good lynch to remove a slot that is difficult to read due to doing spit all - people are just wimpy about admitting that for some reason nowadays, but it's clearly the press on you.

Even look at your posting here;
"Didn't read arguments about mass claim"
"no opinion"
"wah-wah why suspect meeee?"
"No time"
Also didn't popcorn.

You're a terrible slot if town and are actively playing to help scum.
If you're scum your play makes sense.

I have no idea why you're being mopey about it or surprised.
I want to lynch you at this stage, because you're an anchor on the game.

Idk I feel like if the consensus is lynching karnos no matter what then there's no point to massclaiming today

Nah, we should massclaim.
It will help coordinate stuff at night and lock scum into claims.
Especially if we are lynching Karnos with a Vanilla cop claim.
I mean seriously now.
What are you suggesting in implying it's a not good idea?
You're being about as empty as Karnos, quite frankly - what reads do you even have? I couldn't describe them. Give me a couple of the ones you feel strongly about.

I don't see her guessing there's a vig unless there's a scum doc

I basically agree

i feel like the facts are pointing to shadow being town... why am i the only one that thinks this...?

The reason you are saying this and others are saying the opposite is that both sides are getting pretty loose with their definitions of "fact".
We can be fairly sure he has a gun (not a fact, but a reasonable deduction from evidence and claim)
His claimed role has a gun.
The Mafia roles have guns unless Doc or maybe something else I'm forgetting.

That actually doesn't point to him being either town or scum - there isn't enough info.
I will admit - presumed Mafia Doc + presumed Town Vig + Gunsmith + Presumed Town Vanilla Cop seems like kind of a giant finger to the Gunsmith role, as he is built in for at least 2 potential false results.
But that might then justify the extra investigative.
But that's a matter of opinion, not fact.

[Elyse]

Nah, we should massclaim.
It will help coordinate stuff at night and lock scum into claims.

Coordinate what exactly? Who the vig is going to shoot? I don't think that's a good idea. And do you think scum is going to claim a PR with this many out in the open already? All massclaim will do is expose the vig and everyone else will claim VT. Scum won't be locked into anything.

Especially if we are lynching Karnos with a Vanilla cop claim.
I mean seriously now.

Karnos claimed VT?

What are you suggesting in implying it's a not good idea?

If the end result of today is a karnos lynch no matter what, I don't see the problem with allowing the vig to be anonymous another night.
You're being about as empty as Karnos, quite frankly - what reads do you even have? I couldn't describe them. Give me a couple of the ones you feel strongly about.[/quote]
I've already said that I think you, karnos, and Shadow are my scumreads. Outside chance of Michel.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I will admit - presumed Mafia Doc + presumed Town Vig + Gunsmith + Presumed Town Vanilla Cop seems like kind of a giant finger to the Gunsmith role, as he is built in for at least 2 potential false results.
But that might then justify the extra investigative.
But that's a matter of opinion, not fact.

Don't forget the tracker.

Alone, I think Tracker+Gunsmith is a lot of investigative power for the town, so it makes sense to have 3 roles that "weaken" both of them. Arguably, if people believe that the Ascetic is town, the fact that you can't get results from them (well, me) doesn't matter in the long run, and the Vanilla Cop has investigative power on its own so it's not an absolutely terrible NU.

I've been trying to think though... We've had a goon flip, and we're presuming that there's a doctor. What about an encryptor? This might seem like irrelevant set-up spec since knowing whether or not the scumteam has daytalk isn't super important for us, but remember that we know for sure that Kraska and Elyse are both vanilla (unless one of them are scum with shadow). So, if the scumteam is in fact a Goon/Encryptor/Doctor, then Kraska and Elyse are pretty close to confirmed town... There's always the possibility of a Encryptor Doctor but I feel that's too much power for one slot.

[Thor665]

Coordinate what exactly? Who the vig is going to shoot? I don't think that's a good idea. And do you think scum is going to claim a PR with this many out in the open already? All massclaim will do is expose the vig and everyone else will claim VT. Scum won't be locked into anything.

Coordinate the Vanilla Cop.
It's not like the theory Vig is utterly sunshine and dewdrops of brilliance, so I have zero issue with outing them now.
Also, yeah, if zero scum want to claim any PRs during the claim I'm *super* happy with that.
Considering your scum list is four long, I would presume you would be as well.
No?

Karnos claimed VT?

He did. Learn to reads?
I don't even get this - go iso him and use Ctrl+F - why are you asking something provable within the thread?

I will admit - presumed Mafia Doc + presumed Town Vig + Gunsmith + Presumed Town Vanilla Cop seems like kind of a giant finger to the Gunsmith role, as he is built in for at least 2 potential false results.

But that might then justify the extra investigative

.
But that's a matter of opinion, not fact.

Don't forget the tracker.

Refer to the bold.

Alone, I think Tracker+Gunsmith is a lot of investigative power for the town, so it makes sense to have 3 roles that "weaken" both of them. Arguably, if people believe that the Ascetic is town, the fact that you can't get results from them (well, me) doesn't matter in the long run, and the Vanilla Cop has investigative power on its own so it's not an absolutely terrible NU.

Sure.
So?
It could also be that either you or Shadow is lying, and the setup could still be fine.

I've been trying to think though... We've had a goon flip, and we're presuming that there's a doctor. What about an encryptor? This might seem like irrelevant set-up spec since knowing whether or not the scumteam has daytalk isn't super important for us, but remember that we know for sure that Kraska and Elyse are both vanilla (unless one of them are scum with shadow). So, if the scumteam is in fact a Goon/Encryptor/Doctor, then Kraska and Elyse are pretty close to confirmed town... There's always the possibility of a Encryptor Doctor but I feel that's too much power for one slot.

We should finish the massclaim, then thoughts like this could matter more.
Here, I'll help;

Claim: VT
Popcorn: Elyse

[Elyse]

Why would you be happy with scum claiming VT? That just means all massclaim did was out the vig.

You said "especially if we are lynching karnos with a vanilla cop claim" and I said "he claimed VT?" as refutation of your statement.

I also think it's scummy af for you to just start massclaim when there's opposition to it.

[Nero Cain]

THOR! ELYSE CLAIMED DAY 1 WHEN SHE WAS RAN UP!

[Nero Cain]

vote:Thor

He's pretending to be a derp.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i thought you don't skip over people in mass claims...? i thought that's what was going down

confused yet again

[Nero Cain]

I don't really see a point in having players claim again and besides, I never agreed to a popcorn massclaim.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i kind of want the vig to claim if he shot someone other than Titus N1, because chances are he has a confirmed guilty on someone (if his kill was blocked, it was most likely a mafia doctor protecting a partner)

if they're one-shot i don't see a point in hiding, plus we know for a fact that tomorrow is MYLO if we ml.

if they're 2 shot or more though i guess i can see the merit in not claiming if he didn't shoot N1.

so that's why i didn't oppose a massclaim. it would also help coordinate shadow's night actions because i think he's likely making it to XYLO, especially with so many VT claims I think that Shadow will actually get a guilty on someone

[Elyse]

vote:Thor

He's pretending to be a derp.

Yeah I'm fine with lynching Thor today too

[Thor665]

Why would you be happy with scum claiming VT? That just means all massclaim did was out the vig.

You said "especially if we are lynching karnos with a vanilla cop claim" and I said "he claimed VT?" as refutation of your statement.

I also think it's scummy af for you to just start massclaim when there's opposition to it.

My comment makes perfect sense - we're lynching Karnos with a vainlla cop claim able to check VT claims.
And you expect a Vig to exist too.
So...

The opposition is you - and I think you're scum. So how is that scummy of me?
I'll wait for you to try to weasel on that one.

I don't really see a point in having players claim again and besides, I never agreed to a popcorn massclaim.

Find me ever agreeing to any other type of massclaim - it's the only good type.

vote:Thor

He's pretending to be a derp.

Yeah I'm fine with lynching Thor today too

Oh really?
Describe the case on me Elyse - because Nero's is hillarious and silly - but it's Nero.
Are you *sheeping* that value call?
Or is there actually a case in your mind? I'd love to hear it. I'm sure everyone would.

[Elyse]

Ok chill you don't have to be so patronizing.

I thought you were saying karnos claimed vanilla cop. That's how your sentence was structured.

I'm not wasting time building a case on you. It's gut, PoE, the fact you've been utterly useless yet acting like you haven't been, proposing a massclaim that will have no effect except outing the vig and "directing the vanilla cop" which we can do anyway since we know who it is, calling me scum and not explaining why, etc.

Like I don't know if you've realized but there's a strong town bloc and you're not in it. It's just how it goes sometimes.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Michel, since you're reevaluating the game, what are your thoughts on Thor's massclaim?

[Nero Cain]

Thor, you were sorta town reading Titus yesterday and got on and quickhammered her. Why should I not think that's possible buddy play?

[Nero Cain]

My comment makes perfect sense - we're lynching Karnos with a vainlla cop claim able to check VT claims.

you could argue that we should not lynch anyone b/c the VT cop could check them but thats a trash idea.

Shadow/Thor team?

[Nero Cain]

but then Karnos makes alot of sense as scum too hrmmmm...

[Nero Cain]

Like if we lynch Karnos today and he is NOT scum this is prob a Shadow/Thor.

Like, Elyse being against the mass claim is kinda pro-town but I think she could maybe do that as scum? Gut says town though.

Lets here Michels claim and his catchup.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i feel like town deserves to know this

i wasn't scumreading karnos D1 because of a game that was ongoing at the time. There, Karnos felt a lot more slimey and manipulative than he is here (where he seems more useless and close-minded), but I can't honestly townread him, so I put him at null. With a lot of obvtown yesterday and karnos's hesitation to join my wagon at first, it made sense that he was a Blitz buddy but I wasn't as sure about him as I was with Gerry (who flipped town). And now that 646 is over, I can't help but acknowledge that Karnos is responding to pressure a lot differently there than he is here. There has to be a reason...

For the record, I think only possible teams are Elyse/Shadow, Thor/Shadow, and Thor/Karnos so? Leaning towards Thor/Karnos atm. Elyse/Karnos is technically possible but very unlikely considering Shadow's result on her... Pretty much ensures that Karnos fakeclaimed vanilla as a Doctor or doctor encryptor or something, which seems unlikely.

Kraska, Nero, and Michel are all super obviously town. I know I'm town for a fact. So PoE dictates that the pool

has

to be out of those four, and Elyse/Thor doesn't feel like SvS for sure. Haven't thought much about Shadow/Karnos but I can't really see it. Thoughts?

karnos

, srs question: you

are

an ISTP right...? like i remember you took the quiz last game but does that personality type suit you in your opinion? this is a very important question in judging your alignment.

[Nero Cain]

I think Shadow has to be scum here. Why is Thor/shadow not possible? Shadow/karnos seems possible as well.

[Nero Cain]

like Shadows whole "Nero has to be bussing!" is pretty manipulative and I still think his Elyse investigation is a bit weak.

[MichelSableheart]

Michel, since you're reevaluating the game, what are your thoughts on Thor's massclaim?

Thor's massclaim is perfectly fine. If we have a vig who shot someone still alive night 1, we want the vig to claim that because his target is almost certainly scum. There were a number of vanilla claims out in the open already. So just locking scum into their claims should help quite a bit.

Let's see... Shadow vanilla cop, Elyse VT, Karnos VT, Thor VT, Kraska didn't contradict shadows vanilla investigation on her, so:

I'm Vanilla Town.

Popcorn to Nero.

Reread to follow when I've spent time on it.