Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[Transcend]

Giga mdude

[Transcend]

GIGA.

IM GETTING FUCKING BORED.

THE DESIRE TO SELF HAMMER RIGHT NOW IS REALLY HIGH SINCE I ALREADY KNOW FINAL SCUM AND I WANT TO SEE THE SCUM PT AND THE DEAD PT ALREADY.

MY DESIRE FOR WINNING IS LESSENING QUITE A BIT BECAUSE YOU ARE DOING NOTHING ABOUT THE SITUATION.

CAN YOU PLEASE WORK YOUR WAY TO A DECISION!?!?!?

[Transcend]

hammer wrong or hammer right, i frankly don't care anymore.

i'm proud of myself for redeeming my awful d1 by campaigning to lynch final scum yesterday.

i just want this game to kick the bucket already.

[Transcend]

like at this point, even smith is done making walls about me.

i think he probably just wants you to respond as well.

this is getting boring or me and i can't speak for smith but most likely him as well.

[Transcend]

i think i might have more posts in this game than everyone who isn't in this 3 way lylo combined.

sorry about the hyperposting <3

[Transcend]

Slots that weren't in 3 way lylo post amount (incuding hydra slips)- 1091.

My post amount- 829.

Disgustingly close.

[Transcend]

I'm not going to re-read a 200 page-long ISO but key points that stuck out to me:

1) Mhsmith's case and jump onto Karnos is the only one out of everyone here that makes sense as a smooth hop onto a bus wagon. Everyone else has interactions that stick out in a way that is unlikely to be bussing (except Rosske but he has the nightkill going for him).

2) Mhsmith asking people what they thought of the evidence against Karnos is something I've seen scum do before when they are last-minute bussing.

3) Mhsmith is one of the few that doesn't react to the KTS scumclaim.

4) Mhsmith's subtle push on Transcend after I outlined suspicion of him without explicitly agreeing with me and using information he had for months is a scummy positioning move.

VOTE: Mhsmith


This is who I think will slip scum. There's no real reason I can find to townread him other than lots of effort but that's something I could see him doing as scum given how thorough and focused and determined to win he is in his other games regardless of alignment. I could see him kill outside Thor for the WIFOM and chaos.

I'm bringing this post up again.

I know you'll be like "lolfalcon lolbanneduser lolnocredibility" but he was dead on with his read. And his reasons are correct.

Smith outlined suspicion on me when Falcon had doubts about me, fairly sure he placed a vote as well.

However, when I don't become a possible lynch at all, he evades any of that logic that as Falcon said he's had for months to pursue scapegoat mislynches on the Rosskeslot and Tenshii. Which is ridiculous because his posts tended to learn towards Tenshii getting lynched vs. the Rosskeslot and both of them were positioned to being lynched on d4, but he went with the one he thought had "less a chance of being mafia" which coincidentally was the one with more momentum.

Giga, I cannot stress this to you enough. He is not town. I am. There has been no town motivation behind his play at all.

He's only been trying to sound towny by overfluffing his posts.

I don't even know why I'm still trying when you're a clear that's not even taking what I say to heart but man....

[Transcend]

If you're scared about Night Kill analysis please don't be, I bet there's 1,000 games on this website where scum made a kill that didn't logically make sense but ended up giving them the W. So maybe the "illogical kill" is actually a "logical kill". I have one of those games in my records (Fire and Ice).

I know you're leaning towards smith being town because he's expanding on his meta and he's wifoming harder about why the night kills point to me and not him which apparently is what you like.

If I can be frank with you one more time, the iraona kill is not something I would have likely done. Tenshii would've been an easy mislynch for scum!me in 3 way lylo and iraona was leaning towards smith being mafia. I would've killed you or Thor to make the kill on smith super easy and then the mislynch on Tenshii being super easy in 3 way.

[Transcend]

Also Mhsmith's reaction to KTS flip was nearly damning and I wish I pushed on it harder than I did because it was flat, basically a change of tone on his behalf. "Wow you guys fucked up even though I helped you lynch this slot, good job guys good job".

I really hope you can get to this game today because frankly it's getting tedious defending myself and attacking him and I just want a result.

I promise you, I will be mad for at most 10 minutes if you mislynch me. Our friendship will not go anywhere, I value it very much. I will only be upset not because my foe was bad but because you doubted yourself for the 4th time this game when you did that 3 times already and it fucked you. Mhsmith is a very formidable opponent and I've been happy to be in this 3 way lylo with him. Would've been happier if he got flipped yesterday!!! But yannoe, I respect good players and I always love a challenge.

[Transcend]

Yeah no shit. What wolf bothers to dump final reads post hammer when his death ends the game? Also talk about your tenshii town read? What's driving that?

Giga seriously, look at this change of tone in this post vs. the rest of his game. He parked his vote on KTS and I'm fairly sure did not change.

[Transcend]

"Talk about your Tenshii townread, I think you're wrong, I think he's scum... What's driving it? Oh pardon me while I get PhantomCobalt and Rosske's slot lynched in the process."

[Transcend]

"No shit KTS wasn't mafia guys... no shit..."

[Transcend]

I can honestly see the Dead PT exploding right now because quite a few people exited the game with a fos on smith or a TR on me and he's survived so many lynches.

KTS: "Why hasn't smith been lynched yet, he knew I was town before I flipped."

Tenshii: "Man I was voting scum yesterday and I still got horribly mislynched."

MariaR: "Transcend is really obvious town why hasn't Giga hammered smith yet?"

Iraona: "I said smith was scum and here I am in the dead PT. Maybe Giga will realize why I'm here and hammer him."

This is what I imagine the Dead PT will look like post game.

[Transcend]

Take a closer look at who was the bigger waffle in 3 way LYLO. Me or him.

Spoiler: The case of the biggest waffle

Mhsmith's posts of which I won't quote consist of inconsistent waffling and not committing to an FoS between me and Giga until I end up voting him.

Not analyzing the kill, it's irrelevant to me just like all the other kills.

I kinda want this game over with. I still fos mhsmith but I respect the hell out of him and I'm not going to insta vote him. I just can't see him being town over Giga but I'm willing to let him attempt to convince me if he wants to.

Are we at a fos triangle? LOL.

I respect smith even though I believe he's scum. I don't instantly vote for two reasons. 1. I hella respect him 2. I'm not gonna be that guy.

Why did all my confidence for this game fly out the window? It's one thing when you have mislynches but now that we have no more I'm absolutely frozen. I've had fairly good reads sans karnos being scum. I still think that it's mhsmith but Giga had questionable actions as well. AFJFJSLSJSJSSS

Still leaning towards smith!!!

I was fairly sure either Giga or Thor were gonna die.

RN I'm at 75 smith and 25 giga but it's not enough to make a vote.

Still leaning towards smith!!!

mhsmith don't twist my words. I still think you're scum but I'm playing it safe and investing this game until I am absolutely positive on who is scum. I.E. I'm not giving Giga a cake walk win if he's scum. I can say one thing on a mislynch but when it's LYLO my mind can completely change.

Still leaning towards smith, he's twisting my words!!!!

I feel bad for whoever is the other townie because I feel like I'm gamethrowing at this point when I'm trying to justify bad townplay

Don't feel bad if you are town. I've half-assed several town games whether it was due to other, more interesting ongoing games, or if it was just due to me having a lack of care in the game. You didn't throw the game if you're town because you strongarmed scum d1.

Don't feel bad if you're town... hey I think you're town... you're not bad buddy.

Anyways FMPOV: karnos was bussed by his partner.

This points to mhsmith being wolf because his vote and tunnel were over all softer and possibly less genuine than Giga. However his answer to my question stated he was "w/e" with the lynch as he claims he was about a 7 in confidence.

Now it could also point to Giga because no one can be 100% certain that a wolf is wolf unless they are actually wolf. Being a 10 that someone was scum sounds incredibly risky. Also mhsmith brought up a point that Giga could've voted karnos and then Io and Thor dumped on him so him unvoting would be inconsistent. He might've had no point of return.

I think that's enough analysis of the karnos bw because it's mostly inconclusive for me and both of you bussing is plausible. Gun to head if I were lynching off of this I'd probably choose mhsmith.

Gun to head Smith is scum!

ntruging theoryu got there buck-o


(i'm drunk don't take anthing i take seriously)

Even drunk!me thinks Giga is town!!!

Reading that makes me confident that, regardless of who is scum, I'm supposed to have the hammer here. That implies scum!Transcend more than scum!Mhsmith, because scum!Mhsmith probably would rather have Thor as a townbeard.

Oh noez Giga scumreads me!!!!

you probably will. I'm back on D2, I don't feel as strongly about your D2 being bad and trans's being good as I previously did.

Oh hey Giga townreads me now, let's steamroll Transcend.

Bout ready to vote smith honestly and say eff it. This is frazzled me though and i will take one more look at this game when I'm fully awake but i went into this day fosing smith and i just had a few questions to ask giga which he answered fairly well.

One thing i will say before i go out against my own fucking will is that i did not pocket tenshii. And i will not stand for having being accused of doing such. Yes, i defended the shit out of scout in creatures mini, but that was tactical. I knew he was jk and i knew i could pseudo confirm someone as mafia. This time it's entirely different and not tactical. He's been my best town read throughout the course of the entire game. He was someone i was not worried in the slightest about being scum. I made a massive fucking wall defending the shit out of him and attacking smith that took me three fucking hours. With all that and being labeled as pocketing genuinely pisses me off.

Yeah I don't think smith can be town, not like I ever really considered it, but this is the last straw!!!

And if you think my tr was implausible, giga he was in your top tier of town reads along with me, kts trd him, and he was the best tr of wing/ira who got flipped immediately when they joined the game.

Gonna start appealing to my townread since I'm giving him hammer!!

if you wanna vote me go for it. I'm solidly leaning towards it being you, and if I'm wrong and it's giga then so be it.

Hey trans I think it's you but uh.... I'm gonna hammersit a bit more if that's alright with you

And yeah no pressure or anything but i will be extremely gutted if you lynch me after all the effort i exerted and after all the sleepless nights I've had from trying to solve this game. It won't impact our friendship at all though it's a tough hammer and i don't hold anything against you personally.

I'm likely gonna vote very soon and clear you. Enjoy your scum win if I'm wrong. But it's almost next to impossible for you to be scum.

If it's giga I'll be impressed. Annoyed that we as town never really forced giga to do anything meaningful post D1, but I just can't see their D1 as being w/w with karnos, while I can see that from you (the lack of interest in the karnos case was bizarre as a town perspective), and the D2+ stuff doesn't look nearly as clearing on you as I'd originally thought.

I'll be impressed if Giga is scum but no hammer 4 u!

@Transcend, i completely understand and i feel the same way about you

i really do not want this to be an AtE fest though

@Mhsmith, You've made a good case explaining why you wouldn't kill Io. Logically speaking, that makes you more likely to be town than Transcend, who I think has the motive to make all of the kills that happened. What I want Transcend to do is at least explain why that isn't the case because I think it's only fair to use the evidence we've been provided with to find the last goon. The nightkills is where there are unresolved questions, essentially, and I think that's the most important thing for Transcend to look at if he wants to prove it's you because you've been put in an auto-loss position if you are in fact scum.

sorry i was really uninterested this game, mafia is a team effort and i really did not pull my weight this game.

It's the uninterested bit that does make me suspect you, it's theoretically conceivable that you bussed and then coasted behind being uninterested. My problem with that idea is that your D1 really didn't look like it was a bus, either on your end or from karnos's end.

You say hmmm it still might be smith. And he says hmm... I still possibly suspect you. You might have bussed karnos, Giga!!

let's take our time then for everyone's sake

Sure.

Well I'm sure Trans is scum but sure I can hammersit longer.

"this is why trans sucks" "this is why giga sucks" they both suck but trans sucks more

just a lot more fluffier

Literally mhsmith is still waffling here.

I doubt I see myself reaching any other conclusion. If you flipped scum I HAD YOU D2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So wp if you dodged that bullet.

VOTE: mhsmith0

And there's the vote!

[Transcend]

Like Giga, the first post you announce suspicion on me, not one post later he's like "well yeah trans is probably scum" after he opened the day thinking YOU were scum.

That was a tactical, non-genuine 180 of him and you're smart enough to realize this.

[Transcend]

Now I'm not saying that I wasn't a waffle at all, because I was. I genuinely was not confident enough to make a vote due to having suspicions on both of you throughout the game. More-so on smith, but enough to where I wanted to question Giga and give smith benefit of the doubt for a little bit. Your answers to my inquiries sounded way more genuine than mhsmith's and thus ended my waffling.

His waffling did not end until I voted him. He concluded I was scum (after you posted that I might have been scum lol) but still waffled, still dug into our posts, still asked questions, still didn't vote.

[Transcend]

As for the karnos bussing meta whatever the fuck it was, his vote on me was meatless on me as it was RVS and I wasn't going anywhere. When K busses, he actually gets them lynched. In Diffusion of Power he might have won the game in 8 way had he not bussed SirCakez. So when he busses he busses by getting them to the rope. I wasn't gonna get to the rope there. In his list of random.org reads (yeah I called them random.org reads) he has mhsmith's slot in there. Aka a possible lynch he would've done in the future had he not gotten d1'd. So you can count that as a bus.

I don't want you to hammer based on that though, it's stupid.

I'll stop posting for now that way page 124 is not entirely filled with Transcend posts but please read it. I'm positive it will make you 180 again.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

sinking my teeth back into the game right now since i have free time

[mhsmith0]

I'm not going to re-read a 200 page-long ISO but key points that stuck out to me:

1) Mhsmith's case and jump onto Karnos is the only one out of everyone here that makes sense as a smooth hop onto a bus wagon. Everyone else has interactions that stick out in a way that is unlikely to be bussing (except Rosske but he has the nightkill going for him).

2) Mhsmith asking people what they thought of the evidence against Karnos is something I've seen scum do before when they are last-minute bussing.

3) Mhsmith is one of the few that doesn't react to the KTS scumclaim.

4) Mhsmith's subtle push on Transcend after I outlined suspicion of him without explicitly agreeing with me and using information he had for months is a scummy positioning move.

VOTE: Mhsmith


This is who I think will slip scum. There's no real reason I can find to townread him other than lots of effort but that's something I could see him doing as scum given how thorough and focused and determined to win he is in his other games regardless of alignment. I could see him kill outside Thor for the WIFOM and chaos.

I'm bringing this post up again.

I know you'll be like "lolfalcon lolbanneduser lolnocredibility" but he was dead on with his read. And his reasons are correct.

Smith outlined suspicion on me when Falcon had doubts about me, fairly sure he placed a vote as well.

However, when I don't become a possible lynch at all, he evades any of that logic that as Falcon said he's had for months to pursue scapegoat mislynches on the Rosskeslot and Tenshii. Which is ridiculous because his posts tended to learn towards Tenshii getting lynched vs. the Rosskeslot and both of them were positioned to being lynched on d4, but he went with the one he thought had "less a chance of being mafia" which coincidentally was the one with more momentum.

Giga, I cannot stress this to you enough. He is not town. I am. There has been no town motivation behind his play at all.

He's only been trying to sound towny by overfluffing his posts.

I don't even know why I'm still trying when you're a clear that's not even taking what I say to heart but man....

1) Instead of bothering to engage with the counter-points I made to wing, he just cites wing's case and leaves it at that. A villager would actually be able to engage with the back and forth, trans just dumps a "well see, wing thought he was a wolf", dressed up a bit
2) I'd actually had reason to push and then back off of trans. See my unvote post

The sheer contempt in transcend there is kinda interesting. Compare that to his iso in his scum game, notably

i'm so fucking pissed off that alpaca flipped town. i pushed his lynch super hard because i thought he was mafia and town would be in basically autowin.

also i reread the entire fucking game overnight, but ignored scout since i thought he was gonna die.

i concluded bacde/lowell mafia.

not voting yet.

Where he talks about being pissed off while pretty clearly not actually being pissed off. I think that's a hard engagement to fake as a wolf.
UNVOTE: transcend
Still suspicious of him, but his reaction there is highly consistent with a townie who thinks he's surrounded by a bunch of total idiots. I don't think he fakes the contempt dripping through his posts if he's a wolf there. It's really hard to do.

at that time, I was actively struggling to figure out who the last wolf was, and my posts reflected it. I was working on engaging people and trying to game solve. Trans is insinuiating that I just pissed off onto easier wagons, but that wasn't how that went down. I unvoted him tuesday, spent the next few days working to try and game solve (as well as defend against the bad case on me), and then SIX DAYS LATER I hopped on to Maria. The idea that I just lazily hopped right off of him onto an easy wagon isn't substantiated by what actually happened.
PS looking at that quote again, what I pulled from the other game is another example of trans as a wolf talking about being pissed off without actually being pissed off. @trans: that's a hole in your wolf game, probably worth fixing going forward.

[mhsmith0]

If you're scared about Night Kill analysis please don't be, I bet there's 1,000 games on this website where scum made a kill that didn't logically make sense but ended up giving them the W. So maybe the "illogical kill" is actually a "logical kill". I have one of those games in my records (Fire and Ice).

I know you're leaning towards smith being town because he's expanding on his meta and he's wifoming harder about why the night kills point to me and not him which apparently is what you like.

If I can be frank with you one more time, the iraona kill is not something I would have likely done. Tenshii would've been an easy mislynch for scum!me in 3 way lylo and iraona was leaning towards smith being mafia. I would've killed you or Thor to make the kill on smith super easy and then the mislynch on Tenshii being super easy in 3 way.

The night kills are evidence. They're part of the case. Trans's shots on Io and Thor point to him more than me, and he knows that he can't effectively argue against that fact, so instead he chooses to just try and discredit it as evidence. As far as the Ira kill goes, it easily could be a setup kill to make my mislynch easier. Ira wasn't making good points, he was just making them with energy. Far easier to lock in his read and have it point to me than to give me a chance to effectively argue against them (see Tenshii's response to my counter-points to win on D4 for an example of this). N4 Trans obviously could have shot you instead (and debatably that's a better shot), but to say that it doesn't fit what he could do in that spot is IMO silly.

[Transcend]

night kills are all you have to rely on not getting hammered for. that's literally it. you can't properly defend your actions that everyone could visibly see for the past 2 months.

[Transcend]

and i have defended myself from making the night kills that were made.

i'm just not selecting to make a case from them because

1. they're inconclusive, the night kill could be made by either of us and there's that
2. it's cheap
3. i have a plethora of other reasons for you to be scum.

[mhsmith0]

Also Mhsmith's reaction to KTS flip was nearly damning and I wish I pushed on it harder than I did because it was flat, basically a change of tone on his behalf. "Wow you guys fucked up even though I helped you lynch this slot, good job guys good job".

I really hope you can get to this game today because frankly it's getting tedious defending myself and attacking him and I just want a result.

I promise you, I will be mad for at most 10 minutes if you mislynch me. Our friendship will not go anywhere, I value it very much. I will only be upset not because my foe was bad but because you doubted yourself for the 4th time this game when you did that 3 times already and it fucked you. Mhsmith is a very formidable opponent and I've been happy to be in this 3 way lylo with him. Would've been happier if he got flipped yesterday!!! But yannoe, I respect good players and I always love a challenge.

Yeah no shit. What wolf bothers to dump final reads post hammer when his death ends the game? Also talk about your tenshii town read? What's driving that?

Giga seriously, look at this change of tone in this post vs. the rest of his game. He parked his vote on KTS and I'm fairly sure did not change.

This was extremely obviously a response to what KTS was posting after his lynch. His "scum claim" was half-assed garbage. If you want a good example of a fake scum claim, see
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7983722
and his follow up posts. It didn't really work out (the wolves were BTD and kappy, and while BTD's reaction sucked, kappy's was really convincing) but at least it was a decent and believable attempt. KTS was flagrantly half-assed. "I'm a wolf, but here's my town block". That should have convinced nobody.
And look at the posts after the "scum claim". Trans is going along in a blah way, with a bunch of posts that are not difficult to fake as a wolf. Like, if you're a wolf in that situation, the obvious move is to try and hop on and get town credit for looking like you "fell for it".
Meanwhile if I'm a wolf, I tell people that they're being dumb for falling for KTS's crappy fake scum claim... for the town credit? Because I would as a villager? Trans is trying to twist my reaction to what KTS said as if somehow I knew he was a villager all along, or as if it wasn't obvious that he wasn't scum from the post, which you yourself noted

Town bloc as it stands is Tenshii, Townscend, Luna, Giga, and Io,

scum doesn't post this transcend

that's the 180

i was too excited to think straight lmfao

[Transcend]

your case on me bubbles down to "tone" which i've been known to have ridiculous tone changes in every single game i play and "he would make those night kills, not me". it's very fluffy and at the same time very flat.

my case on you is based thoroughly on the actions that you did throughout the course of the entire game. how EVERY SINGLE VOTE you made was tactical and not genuine. how you had flat reactions and tone changes upon flips. reading your iso you had fairly consistent tone throughout the game, which you did a good job of, however when kts was hammered your tone immediately changed.

[mhsmith0]

night kills are all you have to rely on not getting hammered for. that's literally it. you can't properly defend your actions that everyone could visibly see for the past 2 months.

Yes, clearly there's no case on you other than night kills

Let's all pretend none of the following are out there:

1) Your lack of interest in the karnos case D1
2) Your constant attempts to change the conversation away from karnos and onto literally anyone else you could think of D1, including shitty cases on luna and thor
3) Your fake emotion
4) Your lying about people being obv!town
5) Your handling of giga today, from "I'M TOTALLY GONNA SOLVE THIS GAME TODAY GUYS" to abandoning your stated suspicion of giga once it became clear that I was back to thinking it was you
6) Your tacit consent to KTS/PC wagons (super bizarre as town since you'd indicated opposition to those)
etc.