I agreed with the first part of Rishi's post: That some of your logic is a little weak but that Jdodge is dangerous if scum. The second part I clearly didn't agree with.
(10:50:24 PM) xcaykex: GODDAMNIT I DONT WANNA GET RID OF MY TENTACLE RAPE PORN
Shanba wrote:I agreed with the first part of Rishi's post: That some of your logic is a little weak but that Jdodge is dangerous if scum. The second part I clearly didn't agree with.
Interesting; so you're voting me because I'm "dangerous if scum"?
Shanba wrote:Rishi, if that's what you think I said then you missed the point.
I realize that's not what you said, but I think that might be some of the motivation behind your reasoning.
The reason you have pro-town reads on everyone else is that you probably have no read on JDodge.
Lynching him is one surefire way to get a read.
Eh. Bolded part is untrue (also I'd like your explanation of how you reached that conclusion), italics part is true, and interesting. We have one scum alive out of 7 players. We have three guaranteed lynches left, in which time we need to correctly identify the scum. If we leave Jdodge alive, this becomes more difficult, as he's difficult to get a read on. It eliminates one of the variables, as he's one of the most likely to be scum to my eyes. Better that than lynching someone I have a pro-town read on, even if it's a mild one.
(10:50:24 PM) xcaykex: GODDAMNIT I DONT WANNA GET RID OF MY TENTACLE RAPE PORN
Analysis of Jack/White/Sikario. This one is more difficult, due to the number of replacements.
Jack's first act is to vote for dylan, and FOS: Patrick, Shanba, Mneme. This might be distancing, and indeed he unvotes fairly quickly, stating that he'd read over some of dylan's other games. But then he votes for mneme, then votes thin man: "*wonders if that was a poorly concealed attempt to save dylan*" -- which seems an awful lot of linking if Jack were actually their scum partner. Votes mneme again, has some reasoned argument with him, and pushes the wagon: "mneme sounds like scum trying to pretend to have genuine suspicions and failing"; "I hate slow games. Can we get some more votes on mneme please?"; and "Let's just lynch mneme." During most of this Jack and Thin Man were the only two votes on Mneme, so if this was bussing, it was determined and persistent bussing.
White replaces in, and votes xyzzy (me, now) as his first act. Doesn't post much of substance other than sniping at xyzzy for lurking (justified sniping, in my view), and then claims confusion: "Wow guys, I am so lost and confused in this game. I honestly can't keep up. I'm sorry, i'm going to have to reread. The quantity of replacements makes this much harder to keep up with." Then yells at the lurkers, JDodge and xyzzy (this seems completely justified to me), and gets involved in a skirmish with JDodge.
Agrees with Guardian's logic at first regarding Setael, but then says "I like stirring the pot, it's making me feel better about Seta, not afraid to make waves which is protown in my book."
And his last post, "Wow guys, tons to read. I've just been swamped recently and i'm trying to catch up in all my games. I want to reread the Guardian-Seta thing but I can't right now." Votes Rishi, claims my recent behaviour is a nulltell.
I'm not going to analyse Sikario because I think he's honestly still learning the game and I don't think it would be that revealing at this point. But ... if I were judging based on Jack's behaviour, I'd call it very pro-town. White seemed either honestly confused and lost, or completely scummy.
Still, Jack's behaviour with mneme and dylan is either extremely believable distancing, or legitimate scumhunting. White's behaviour probably should be given the benefit of the doubt, so I'm going to say that right now, and by a narrow margin, I'm thinking Sikario is probably town.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
Shanba wrote:Rishi, if that's what you think I said then you missed the point.
I realize that's not what you said, but I think that might be some of the motivation behind your reasoning.
The reason you have pro-town reads on everyone else is that you probably have no read on JDodge.
Lynching him is one surefire way to get a read.
Eh. Bolded part is untrue (also I'd like your explanation of how you reached that conclusion), italics part is true, and interesting. We have one scum alive out of 7 players. We have three guaranteed lynches left, in which time we need to correctly identify the scum. If we leave Jdodge alive, this becomes more difficult, as he's difficult to get a read on. It eliminates one of the variables, as he's one of the most likely to be scum to my eyes. Better that than lynching someone I have a pro-town read on, even if it's a mild one.
Rishi, the person my vote is on, and the last piece of analysis I promised I'd do.
Starts with a random vote on dylan. Unvotes to vote somestrangeflea, who is lynched. Rishi does not vote for mneme. Makes this rather odd comment, "Anyway, I don't have any major suspicions at this point. I figure someone will slip up sooner or later."
Comments on Setael: "Setael is someone I am keeping an eye on. I definitely think her arguments seem weak at points, but I'm not sure if they're just weak arguments or actually scummy arguments." Pretty weak distancing, in my opinion.
Votes xyzzy, and little of content for a while. Then, waiting for xyzzy's replacement: "I do not like the way Setael has been acting lately. She has been stirring the pot, but I'm not sure what she's trying to accomplish. Besides, I'm waiting to hear what she thinks of me before I say what I think of her. (That's a semi-joke.)"
And this regarding xyzzy, which seems odd to me, like Rishi is justifying not voting for Setael (who had two votes and at one point not long before had had three votes): "Well, I probably would continue to vote him when replaced, but the point that I was emphasizing is that I will definitely not unvote or switch my vote at any point before that. After the replacement shows up (or xyzzy himself), it would depend on what they say."
And recently: (Looking for roleclaims) "But narrowing down the list of candidates with so few players is more helpful than you think." contrasts oddly with "I think it's fairly lazy to lynch JDodge just so that you can satisfy your own curiosity about whether he is town or scum."
I think I'm keeping my vote where it is. I see the case on JDodge for certain, but at least he did place votes on scum, and Rishi seemed to be finding excuses not to do so.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
Yes, and I thought I'd included that in my post, but apparently I missed it. And it is a point in your favour, and deserves to be mentioned, so thank you for pointing it out.
Rishi did vote for Setael, stating:
"dylan41985/Setael -- On a re-read, I don't really see the suspicion that arose on dylan. He really didn't do much of anything in this game. Setael, however, has more than made up for that. She got on the mneme bandwagon late, perhaps to distance herself. She has been posting a lot of accusations. First, she accused Shanba, then backed off. Then Patrick, and backed off. Then she got into an argument with Guardian, and backed off. Now me. And, with her last post, she cast some minor suspicion on Bookitty. She hides her weak arguments behind a lot of words and quotes. This is not an OMGUS vote (it would have come sooner after her vote for me if it were), but I just think she's jumping around too much."
And while I think of it, Rishi, why, if JDodge is scum, would he be dangerous? I didn't really get that.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
Currently I'm wavering between Rishi and JDodge, though I doubt I'll vote either until sikario actually does something. Bookitty hasn't played the cleanest game, but her recent efforts seem genuine to me.
Rishi's stances towards known scum don't fill me with confidence this game, and unlike Shanba, I could see Setael attacking her scumbuddy if she'd predicted that she would be going down. Why not? Gave him a reason to vote for her. Setael was at 3 votes with 5 needed to lynch at the time, so I could see her having the foresight to do a last minute distancing attack. Rishi's recent comments about JDodge seem a little odd, and make me wonder if he's trying to gain town points for if we lynch JDodge as town.
Guardian wrote:I am unsure of Rishi now, if we were going to lynch someone other than Bookitty and Jdodge, I'd rather it were Patrick atm, I think. Rishi has made a lot of sense this game, and looking back, it is not obvious that he was busing Setael.
What do you mean by "it is not obvious that he was busing Setael"? Is there something about his Setael vote that makes you think notbusing?
Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
I hear what everyone is saying. There are definitely scummy things about my play. For example, I have a terrible voting record. I voted for ssf, I didn't vote for mneme and I came on to the Setael lynch in the middle. I still contend that, as both mneme and Setael were trying to get me lynched, that it was a little too much for distancing. If a majority of you find me scummy, though, then I think you should lynch me. I would rather you make the mistake now than on Day 6.
I do regret not being on the mneme lynch. I think if things went a couple days longer, I would have voted for him.
JDodge is dangerous because he's difficult to read and especially easy to mis-read. I think, if he's scum, there's a good chance of a mistake in the endgame.
We haven't really talked about why Thin_Man was targeted. I think his death also makes me less likely as scum. If I were scum, why would I get rid of someone who was defending me?
Taking a break from MS. Please send e-mail if you want to get in touch with me.
Rishi wrote:as both mneme and Setael were trying to get me lynched, that it was a little too much for distancing.
Mneme did say "Most suspicous: Rishi, Thin_Man, Patrick." And to Jack: "I'm pretty convinced Rishi's scum, actually, and your (lacksidasical) defense of her is noted. I picked you over Rishi because your attack on me is also fairly scummy in form -- coming into the game and following while not really giving anything resembling reasoning, whereas Rishi mostly just hasn't been here." Under pressure, does land a lonely vote on Rishi, but removes it fairly quickly to vote for Shanba.
So mneme wasn't really trying to get Rishi lynched, so far as I can see.
However, Setael definitely was pushing a lynch against Rishi. Nearly all her posts were dealing either with that, or arguing with Guardian.
So Rishi does have a point about Setael. Not mneme, though.
Rishi, are you still convinced that JDodge is not scum? This comment:
Rishi wrote:I think, if he's scum, there's a good chance of a mistake in the endgame.
seems like a change of heart from this one:
Rishi wrote:So, I agree that JDodge could be more helpful, but I also don't think he is scum and shouldn't be lynched just because we don't like the way he plays.
Have you changed your mind? If so, why?
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
Bookitty wrote:Okay, I looked at Rishi's claim that
Rishi wrote:as both mneme and Setael were trying to get me lynched, that it was a little too much for distancing.
Mneme did say "Most suspicous: Rishi, Thin_Man, Patrick." And to Jack: "I'm pretty convinced Rishi's scum, actually, and your (lacksidasical) defense of her is noted. I picked you over Rishi because your attack on me is also fairly scummy in form -- coming into the game and following while not really giving anything resembling reasoning, whereas Rishi mostly just hasn't been here." Under pressure, does land a lonely vote on Rishi, but removes it fairly quickly to vote for Shanba.
So mneme wasn't really trying to get Rishi lynched, so far as I can see.
Okay. I will concede this point. I went and did a re-read on mneme. I just remember his suspicions on me and the vote, but it looks like he wasn't pushing as hard as I remembered.
Bookitty wrote:
Rishi, are you still convinced that JDodge is not scum? This comment:
Rishi wrote:I think, if he's scum, there's a good chance of a mistake in the endgame.
seems like a change of heart from this one:
Rishi wrote:So, I agree that JDodge could be more helpful, but I also don't think he is scum and shouldn't be lynched just because we don't like the way he plays.
Have you changed your mind? If so, why?
Sorry if I didn't make things clear. I don't think JDodge is scum. I was just speaking in hypothetical terms.
Taking a break from MS. Please send e-mail if you want to get in touch with me.
Shanba wrote:Rishi, if that's what you think I said then you missed the point.
I realize that's not what you said, but I think that might be some of the motivation behind your reasoning.
The reason you have pro-town reads on everyone else is that you probably have no read on JDodge.
Lynching him is one surefire way to get a read.
Eh. Bolded part is untrue (also I'd like your explanation of how you reached that conclusion), italics part is true, and interesting. We have one scum alive out of 7 players. We have three guaranteed lynches left, in which time we need to correctly identify the scum. If we leave Jdodge alive, this becomes more difficult, as he's difficult to get a read on. It eliminates one of the variables, as he's one of the most likely to be scum to my eyes. Better that than lynching someone I have a pro-town read on, even if it's a mild one.
Guardian wrote:Bookitty is trying really really hard. I tend to think she wouldn't leave so much analysis for us to scrutinize if she is scum. Eh, she is def still in my top three though.
However,
unvote vote: Jdodge
.
One thing really bugged me -- when I metagamed him, and said his not posting was scummy, he asked "remember the last time you tried to do this?" He was right to do so -- he was town in that game.
However, he FAILED to point out that
I
was scum in that game. There were two scum factions, but I was scum and the last time I made that argument it could have been just BS scum tactics -- and I would expect him to bring that up here.
His failure to do so makes me think he was possibly buddying --
he wasn't interested in figuring out if I was scum, he was only interested in making me think that he wasn't scum
.
Also, his behavior re: both scum wagons has been suspicious.
More Jdodge wagon please. Bookitty and Patrick can wait.
As I read, I noticed that some of the more outspoken players, i.e. Shanba and Guardian, have discovered what I've discovered long before when it comes to JDodge - it is impossibly to see through his facade.
Take this vote as my being envious of your poker-faced playing style or my attempt to find out who you really are, but, either way,
vote JDodge
'Sikario not having "Townsperson" disturbs me. Please rectify this thok.' --Oman
:roll:
Man, I am not sure about Sikario8's vote. However, I'm starting to lean against him as scum for a purely metagamed reason. White had been absent for much of Day 3 and then was replaced on Day 4. Obviously, the Mafia sent a kill during the night, and White has been completely absent from the site during the entire Night 3.
These meta-game arguments have gotten me in trouble in the past.
Taking a break from MS. Please send e-mail if you want to get in touch with me.
I understand your concern; however, what questions could have been asked to further any investigation? Have you not spent this entire game trying to read JDodge and failed? Unless you're implying that I am by far superior to the lot of you and should have entailed the aid of super-secret tactics, there should be no reason for you to be upset, but feel free - we'll find out soon enough who is town and who is scum, so have fun. Carpe diem, everyone.
'Sikario not having "Townsperson" disturbs me. Please rectify this thok.' --Oman
:roll:
