Mini 515 - The Pine Barrens - Game Over!

[mcpaltp]

Thanks Opie, that clears things up. I wanted to make sure you knew where your vote was.

And I'll get a little more serious here, and stop needling Adel so much. Sorry guy . And no, there was not actually a breadcrumb in Jabberwocky. Sorry for the confusion. I was just having a little fun.

I'm also waiting for the slackers mentioned in hasgdfas (nonsense names unite!) to respond to the crunchy discussion we've had so far. I will actually not be in front of the computer for several hours, so I'd like to encorage people to really think before hammering anyone. Remember, the more info we have, the better!

Preview Edit: To emphasize, the breadcrumb "hint" was a joke. I was posting Jabberwocky to screw with the algorhythm. Just be happy I didn't post "Hunting of the Snark"

[Bookitty]

Breadcrumb means to hint at your role, so that you have evidence for it later when you are forced to claim it.

Why someone would breadcrumb WEREWOLF? That, I've no idea about.

[Adel]

Ugh. This must have been posted while I was composing my post.

I'm slightly baffled my this. I see mcpaltp suggesting a breadcrumb, but where are you coming up with werewolf? And if he was werewolf, why would he claim now?

it would be a cute and smug thing for him to do, which fits my very rough and amateurish psychological profile for him.

And now that you are following a FOS with a vote, should I consider this a scumtell on you?

thinking along those lines leads to recursive logic errors. Good luck being successful at mafia.

[mcpaltp]

Breadcrumb: to hide hints in one's post that are not immediately identifiable as to your role to lend credability when you claim later on. Or for people to ferret out when you flip as cop or something like that. Not everybody does it, but it can be fun. Enterprising scum can do it too, so buyer beware. Screw you, scum.

FAKE BREADCRUMB: BONES (capitals of my sentences, this could be a good breadcrumb in a OS star-trek mafia)

[Elias_the_thief]

Frankly Adel, if youre town, youre bad at it. Someone who has looked into the game in as much depth as you have should realize that pissing the town off when you're under close threat of lynch is really likely to lead to your lynch actually occuring. Things like "good luck being successful at mafia". Youre not helping your scenario there. Anyways, I doubt that any scum player would actually breadcrumb scum. I just dont understand it. Also, I dont get the "jabberwocky" connection to "New jersey devil". I must be missing something obvious here.

[Adel]

if you have an interest in breadcrumbing, this thread contains a few interesting ideas.

[Bookitty]

Elias:

My understanding was that the werewolf thing was derived from the "tail end" that mcpaltp mentioned. I don't know for sure but that was my take on it.

[Adel]

the jabberwocky is a big monster in the woods that you have to kill with a magic sword, found in a poem that is am example of literary nonsense. mcpaltp is a fountian of nonsense claiming a role with a poem about the jabberwocky. the flavor of our game would allow for the presence of werewolves.

i think mcpaltp spends a lot of typing to amuse himself at his own cleverness, and hinting at his scum role in such a obtuse way would give him a case of the giggles, i'm sure.

[Rishi]

Tenth Vote Count - Day 2

Adel - 4 (opie, mcpaltp, Bookitty, neko2086)
Bookitty – 1 (Elias_the_thief)
neko2086 - 1 (TheHermit)
mcpaltp – 1 (Adel)

Not voting: Boggzie, ThAdmiral, hasdgfas

10 alive. 6 votes to lynch.

Deadline: November 20, 11:59pm

Five votes will be enough to lynch at deadline.

Deadline may be extended to December 4 at the request of a majority of the players. Requests so far: 0

[Boggzie]

I'm feeling Neko's vote on Adel is a distraction. I felt Zak was scum, but wanted to hold my vote to see how his replacement played - his replacement, weighing even his own evidence, leads me to believe he's pushing too hard.

"The lady doth protest too much."

Or maybe, in this case, "accuses too quick". My suspicions still lay on Adel/Zak, neko, and Admiral.

Admiral - I'd like to see you elaborate on who you're pointing your finger at. Why have you been so cautious?

I am almost positive we're looking at a three person team of scum at this point.

[neko2086]

So, how is my vote on Adel distracting, exactly? I don't see anything Pro-town about what Adel is doing, and I'm not the only one, either. I'm interested to know why you picked me out, as I'm not the only with a vote on Adel.

[ThAdmiral]

Well I think adel is the best thing that has happened in the game so far.

Her analysis, and interpretation of the results, is simply not a scumtell. The fact is she does the same thing as scum or town. It's interesting to see a lot of people not knowing how to deal with what she has brought forth, responding with omgus. These people seem almost frightened at something that is new and different, and, in my opinion, are reacting out of fear.

[ThAdmiral]

Admiral - I'd like to see you elaborate on who you're pointing your finger at. Why have you been so cautious?

Opie would be my number one choice at the moment. I am also suspicious of the hermit, and zakarum was looking suss before adel took over (but I certainly don't want to vote adel out).

I've been cautious for two reasons - first of all I started off on shaky ground with the whole day 1 absence thing, and also while I am suspicious of opie I don't feel like I have a watertight case.

[Elias_the_thief]

Well I think adel is the best thing that has happened in the game so far.

Her analysis, and interpretation of the results, is simply not a scumtell. The fact is she does the same thing as scum or town. It's interesting to see a lot of people not knowing how to deal with what she has brought forth, responding with omgus. These people seem almost frightened at something that is new and different, and, in my opinion, are reacting out of fear.

What is your basis for saying that Adel runs this algorithm every game and then votes based entirely off of it, besides what she has told you?

[Adel]

A point of clarification: I have never run my system in a game that has completed as of this date.

[Adel]

a mini that just ended tonight because of the unusual mechanic, I used a simplified (i.e. quick and dirty) version of my system. The first lynch worked out fine, but once the game came down to pdcakes and JDodge my system told me that pdcakes was the guilty one. I almost voted him too.. but I don't have blind faith in my system so the town won the game.

As a few of you have suggested, I didn't mention my system in that game, and I didn't use any graphics. I took the results my system suggested and then tried to develop a written case against that suspect. I though I would try being a little more honest in this game- and actually explain what is driving me to the conclusions I reach.

[ThAdmiral]

Well I think adel is the best thing that has happened in the game so far.

Her analysis, and interpretation of the results, is simply not a scumtell. The fact is she does the same thing as scum or town. It's interesting to see a lot of people not knowing how to deal with what she has brought forth, responding with omgus. These people seem almost frightened at something that is new and different, and, in my opinion, are reacting out of fear.

What is your basis for saying that Adel runs this algorithm every game and then votes based entirely off of it, besides what she has told you?

When I say she does the same thing I mean use mathematics + some form of a graph to help her decide who she should vote for. I was in a game with her and also heard tell of other games in which she did this.

[Boggzie]

neko - you're off my list.

Adel - why defend your process in another game when no one called you on it?

Admiral - You seem like you're dancing. Suspect here, thought there. That's troubling, overcautious either means you're town/cop, or you're trying to blend in. I need more info to help me decide. You and Adel now top my list.

I've went over over the graphs again and again, to the extent of looking at them at home trying to be wholly separate from the game. They're simply nothing, noise if you will.

Looking for more info on Admiral and Adel.

[mcpaltp]

I'm fine with people putting in some serious analysis, but it sure struck me as Adel comes in, posts a huge amount of data, says that s/he run it through a magic algorhythm that is SUPER SECRET and s/he just can't tell us how, but these guys are 60% scum, but I can't tell you why. Trust me guys. I feel as though it was startlingly disingenuous, and while I could see why s/he would want to keep this

magic method

under his/her hat, it sure as heck doesn't help me trust him/her.

In my re-read, I was startled to notice that you voted for me now! Were you just frustrated with me, or do you

honestly

think I was breadcrumbing scum from something as obvious as Jabberwocky, and then making sure to point it out? You are reaching, but I forgive you for it. I'm cool with the vote, and don't blame you that much, but I'd appreciate if you'd admit that it was born out of frustration.

And honey, I have a permanent case of the giggles. When the doctor slapped me right after I was born, I giggled. When I graduated college, I giggled. When I got married, I giggled. It's a chronic case.

I would also like to know why Boggzie chose neko's vote over, say, mine or anyone else's as being "distracting". Distracting from what? Tia!

Preview edit: Boggzie, I now notice that neko is "off [your] list". Why is that? Seems like quite the 180.

[mcpaltp]

Oh yeah, this is slightly off-topic, but a great example of breadcrumbing as a cop is in the following post:

*Disclaimer* The game is still in progress, but I am not in the game in any way. This is from another forum and contains some naughty language, etc. Depending on your workplace this may be considered

NSFW

. This is a themed mafia, and the theme is Pulp Fiction (the Tarantino movie). That should give you an idea of why this may be NSFW due to language.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... t335838379

[neko2086]

Just for clarification everyone, I messed up my quote tags in my 354 post. The following section should have read

Could you plug every player into your model and post their results?

I did plug every player in, and I will not share the results

Ok, so you don't want to share this either? That's too bad, because I'd like to know where zakarum fit in all this. Maybe he was the scummiest of all.


I didn't catch this until recently. Sorry for any confusion





And Adel, I do appreciate your honesty, but I still don't find your tactics in any way helpful. Honestly, I don't care if this site was developed by math geeks (referring to your 373 post), and developing an elitist attitude is not going to make me sympathize with you or respect you in any way.

Anyway, question for Admiral, you said:

Opie would be my number one choice at the moment. I am also suspicious of the hermit, and zakarum was looking suss before adel took over (but I certainly don't want to vote adel out).

Ok, good, so you are alive and well and thinking about the game... do you have anything to follow up those suspicions with?

I've been cautious for two reasons - first of all I started off on shaky ground with the whole day 1 absence thing, and also while I am suspicious of opie I don't feel like I have a watertight case.

I guess not. Boggzie asked you to elaborate on your suspicions, and I'll ask the same thing as well. Maybe you see something we don't, so do share. Also, if you're being cautious because you weren't around much day 1, I can't say that's a great idea. If people thought you were lurky before, you won't ease suspicions by being lurky now, though you did have something to say on Adel so I appreciate that.

Boggzie, I won't complain about being off your list, but that seemed a bit too easy. Plus you didn't answer my question.

Hermit, I was hoping to hear from you. I believe you said you had some more comments.

[TheHermit]

I agree with the general sentiment of not trusting Adel and his magical mystery algorithm. Especially when he asks us to just trust it, then admits that it screwed up in the recently completed game. A-durr.

Everyone and their mother has a "system" for winning it big in Vegas. They all fail, spectacularly. Do you know why that is? Mostly because it's essentially impossible to predict randomness, but also because math ignores the human element, and you simply can't do that in a highly personal game like mafia.

So I don't believe a single word Adel says. Not unless he can back up his "algorithm" with actual, verifiable evidence.

[TheHermit]

I also love (and by love, I mean I'm really suspicious of) how Adel points out "scumtells" and then dismisses them when they're applied to him. So somehow you're immune to your own algorithm? Also, the "I think mcpaltp is scum but he's not a good lynch for today" reads like "mcpaltp is my scumbuddy, but I'd rather not bus him if I didn't have to".

Adel, you're currently at four votes. I will be putting the L-1 vote on you shortly. Now would be a good time to roleclaim.

[Boggzie]

In ref to neko - I would like to abstain from explaining why I took you off my list until Adel responds. I'm not ignoring your question. If it becomes obvious Adel's not going to cooperate, it's an answer in and of itself, and I'll be happy to explain then.

[Adel]

I'm in a game full of SA players. oh. lynch me now.

vanilla townie

here, not full of noise, but at least it is safer than continuing with the day and possibly outing a powerrole. I've said pretty much all that I want to in this thread for this audience anyhow.

unvote: vote:adel