Mini 523 - Game Over!

[VampyreLord]

Vote Count

deepthought (5)

- Nudude, liamcool, Thanatos, charter, Disciple Slayer
liamcool (3) - Gorgon, Hang'em High, deepthought
Dark_Lady_Shaiann (1)- Insurgent
Disciple Slayer (1) - VampyreLord

Not Voting (2) - Infinitive, Dark_Lady_Shaiann,

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Hi all! sorry I havn't been here. Was catching up on everything.

DLS/DS Thier argument seemed to be, well, over-defensive townieish behind all the crap so neither are that suspicous in my eyes any more.

unvote

DT has been the favorite to lynch so far, but I'm not worrying that much. I'd rather lynch hjim tomorrow, maybe. I want to lynch....

Thanatos

' posts have almost seemed to me like he's giving fellow scum instrcutions on what to do at night...

By not killing you, the scum has two options. (assuming you're town)

1. They kill you, deciding that you're worth the effort because you're a Doc.

2. They let you live, and kill someone else. By doing this, they have the ability to kill someone else, and then you're almost sure to be dead on D2 or 3. By doing this, they draw alot of suspicion off of themselves, take away a lynch from the town, give us the moral defeat of killing off our own doc, and get one more townie killed than they would have if they killed you.

It's almost like he's telling his scum-buddies to do one of these things, or a quick way to raise a topic to discuss during the night.

Tsk, tsk. Not liking that kind of play at all

vote:Thanatos

.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

@Infinitive, DLS

Just noting that it's 17 pages into D1 and you still aren't voting for anyone.

Yeah...I already made a note of that.....

[Nudude]

Hi all! sorry I havn't been here. Was catching up on everything.

DLS/DS Thier argument seemed to be, well, over-defensive townieish behind all the crap so neither are that suspicous in my eyes any more.

unvote

DT has been the favorite to lynch so far, but I'm not worrying that much. I'd rather lynch hjim tomorrow, maybe. I want to lynch....

Thanatos

' posts have almost seemed to me like he's giving fellow scum instrcutions on what to do at night...

By not killing you, the scum has two options. (assuming you're town)

1. They kill you, deciding that you're worth the effort because you're a Doc.

2. They let you live, and kill someone else. By doing this, they have the ability to kill someone else, and then you're almost sure to be dead on D2 or 3. By doing this, they draw alot of suspicion off of themselves, take away a lynch from the town, give us the moral defeat of killing off our own doc, and get one more townie killed than they would have if they killed you.

It's almost like he's telling his scum-buddies to do one of these things, or a quick way to raise a topic to discuss during the night.

Tsk, tsk. Not liking that kind of play at all

vote:Thanatos

.

C'mon VL.... One could explain your stretches of logic early in the game, but there's enough to go off now that you should be able to put together a more convincing case than this.

For starters, why would scum risk discussing strategy in the thread when they can talk about it secretly at night? Even if he is, why would he confuse his scum buddies by giving them mulitple choices?

It sounds like to me Thanatos was putting forward an idea. It is a bit WIFOM, but it is logical and makes sense.

You'll have to do better than that before I let you off the hook. What do you think of everyone so far?

[VampyreLord]

1. It's convincing enough for me....
2.Thanatos is looking too much into what the scum will do at night, methinks. I said in my last post that he could be setting up a quick discussion for night, possibly incase it is deadlined. As I also said, it seemed hidden to me. It'd hardley confuse his scumbuddies IMO, also possibly setting up a quick topic for night (so they don't have to ponder too much).
3. As I

also

said previously, DLS and DS are looking fairly pro-town in my eyes, and Thanatos a bit scummier than DT.

@Nudude, liamcool, Thanatos, charter and Disciple Slayer.

Could you guys all give me a post on why your voting for DT?

@Gorgon, Hang'em High and deepthought.

Same as above but why liamcool?

Thank you.

[Infinitive]

I know, I know. Mostly, I'm trying to decide whether to vote for Liam or DT right now. I'm just about certain that DT is scum, except for one nagging thing at the back of my head. The problem is, I've heard several times about people getting very close to being lynched day 1, getting passed, and then not getting lynched even when they should because people feel reluctant to start the bandwagon up again. As I'm 90% sure that DT is scum at this point, I don't want him getting away if he is.

Okay, here's the thought at the back of my head, and apologies if I screw anything up or whatever. For this to work, we have to presume that DT is town and liam is scum (which is, as I've noted above, only a possibility). Now, what if he's a generic Townie, with no power whatsoever? Further, he gets a read on someone scummy (Liam), and pushes on him, pointing out to the rest of us that he IS scummy, while at the same time making himself look a little suspect. Then, as a bandwagon forms, he roleclaims Doc at the very first opportunity presented to him, a maneuver that, with his experience, he knows will make the town reluctant to lynch him on day 1. On the other hand, he's pushing for another scummy person and has claimed Doc, so the scum almost HAVE to nightkill him on night 1. If we've lynched Liam, then we're one scum down and have lost only a generic Townie, while almost-but-not-quite roleblocking the Scum kill for that night. The downside to the plan? If we lynch DT, the town has in reality lost only a generic Townie, not the doc, and the scum have to scramble come nightfall to figure out who to shoot.

This is something that I wouldn't even think of for a less experienced players, but the thread seems to have confirmed that DT is more or less the most experienced player in this game. Sorry to start confusion up, but his posts since about page 12, while not very good at allaying suspicion, have been troublingly good at pointing out discrepancies, and that just seems out of place for a scum player.

Like I said, it's something that's been niggling at the back of my head. It might just be a very good scum ploy to survive a day.

[VampyreLord]

(hypothetical situation: DT is pro-town).If we don't lynch DT, I doubt the scum/SK? will NK him because he is so suspicous already, we'll probably lynch him tommorrow, giving the scum another townie-kill.

[deepthought]

If we've lynched Liam, then we're one scum down and have lost only a generic Townie, while almost-but-not-quite roleblocking the Scum kill for that night. The downside to the plan? If we lynch DT, the town has in reality lost only a generic Townie, not the doc, and the scum have to scramble come nightfall to figure out who to shoot.

Speaking of discrepancies, you seem fairly convinced that lynching liam nets the town a scum for someone whose last comment regarding him was "an alternative to DT, but not close on my list of suspects".

Also, I'd hardly consider losing a vanilla townie vs. a doc and making the scum scramble a bit a "downside".

[deepthought]

stuff

You seem to have avoided talking about me altogether (aside from "Thanatos is slightly scummier than DT"), and surely you realize this looks like you trying to avoid a bandwagon you know is going to turn sour at the end of the day.

I propose a trade: you tell everyone what exactly you think of me and why, and I'll expand my case against liamcool.

[Disciple Slayer]

stuff

You seem to have avoided talking about me altogether (aside from "Thanatos is slightly scummier than DT"), and surely you realize this looks like you trying to avoid a bandwagon you know is going to turn sour at the end of the day.

I propose a trade: you tell everyone what exactly you think of me and why, and I'll expand my case against liamcool.

Try expanding your case against liamcool. You're already in a bad position. I also like how you keep labeling the truckload of valid suspicions against you a "bandwagon".

[Disciple Slayer]

@Infinitive

Interesting idea, but it sounds too out-of-this-world. I didn't think of that and I doubt DT did either. My money's still on him being mafia.

@VL

Your case against Thanatos is waaay weaker than the current one against DT. Are you just afraid to put DT at L-1?

Also, don't make me hunt through 18 pages and a shitstorm of fail to quote you why I voted DT. You were inactive, so get reading.

[Disciple Slayer]

Come to think of it, why are people afraid of putting DT at L-1 and hammering him? Here's a list of the people who aren't voting for DT.

Gorgon
HeH
VL
Infinitive
DLS

Tell me why you aren't voting for DT when he's the prime suspect of this game. Tell me what you think of him, in-depth. Give us some information to work with. Unless, that is, you're scum and you want to withhold information from us.

Requesting prod on HeH

[Thanatos]

1. It's convincing enough for me....
2.Thanatos is looking too much into what the scum will do at night, methinks. I said in my last post that he could be setting up a quick discussion for night, possibly incase it is deadlined. As I also said, it seemed hidden to me. It'd hardley confuse his scumbuddies IMO, also possibly setting up a quick topic for night (so they don't have to ponder too much).
3. As I

also

said previously, DLS and DS are looking fairly pro-town in my eyes, and Thanatos a bit scummier than DT.

@Nudude, liamcool, Thanatos, charter and Disciple Slayer.

Could you guys all give me a post on why your voting for DT?

@Gorgon, Hang'em High and deepthought.

Same as above but why liamcool?

Thank you.

That's stupid logic. Have you ever played as scum? Unless their really stupid, or night is like 5 minutes long, you're fully capable of discussing this at night. Why would I dare to, as scum, discuss my plans? I'm telling this to the town so that the town knows this is a possibility, and, as I have said, it is dangerous. Call it OMGUS if you want, but

FOS:VL

.

As for the other thing, Because, also as I said, I want him to be at L-2. I don't want him at a hammer position, but I want it to be a threat to him, because I'm not convinced to pull it off yet. If I wasn't, it would be on Liamcool.

Also, the scum/SK might kill him simple because he's the doc. The risk I see is that they will let him live as a decoy, thus being THE ENTIRE POINT OF MY PLAN.

...Actually, given you're last post, you just said (albeit in less words) exactly what I've been saying for the past 5 pages. I guess that means you suspect yourself.

[Gorgon]

Wow VL, you really are stretching it. Of all the people here, you vote Thanatos because you suspect him of being scum who discusses scum tactics

in the open thread

. That's just silly. No non-braindead person would dream of doing this, when there is plenty of time to discuss any potential topic in private during the actual night, and when more information is available (i.e. who's actually lynched at the end of the day).

FoS: VL

You ask me why I'm voting liamcool. I think that's pretty plain to see. He's been wanting to lynch DT for a while now, while giving this conviction almost no solid backing on his own. Here are some choice quotes:

Okay, it seems blaringly obvious due to his nature and all the evidence piling up. I'm probably going to regret this, but I'm going to join on the bandwagon..

That's just hopelessly vague. This has already been flagged as scummy, and I've already questioned him about this. And as has also been pointed out before, he pointedly says that he's "probably going to regret this" (getting on the bandwagon) ... this can easily be seen as a way to distance from the bandwagon while still riding it.

As for his doctor claim, I think it's totally false, it seems very desperate in trying to get out of being lynched by saying "ooh, look at me, I'm the doctor".

Again, I've already questioned him about this. He offers no explanation as to why he feels that the claim "seems very desperate".

I feel that it damns DT as scum, the evidence, in my opinion, is just too strong. His attempts at trying to convince people he's the doctor are pretty pathetic and just a desperate attempt at saving his life.

Yet again, hopelessly vague ... and I've already questioned him about this. What is the evidence, man?

I note that liamcool has yet to respond to any of these questions.

Do I really need to go in depth? I can if you want me to, but I feel I've made my case well enough.

Regarding DT, for one thing the doc claim is holding me back. I still feel that the real doc would have counterclaimed at this point ... unless it's Lord Nikon, but statistically that's unlikely, of course. Also, DT has said he's from a different background (SA), where games are played differently. Sure, he's pretty toungue-in-cheek, and has said some things that raise eyebrows, but on the other hand, he

has

done what I would call genuine scumhunting. Take his scumdar post (his post 35). I agree with a lot of his thoughts. Also, take his most recent post where he says to VL:

You seem to have avoided talking about me altogether (aside from "Thanatos is slightly scummier than DT"), and surely you realize this looks like you trying to avoid a bandwagon you know is going to turn sour at the end of the day.

1. This is genuine scumhunting, IMO. DT levels a reasonable accusation.

2. DT actually

chastises

VL for not paying attention to him (DT). This gives me the impression that DT is not that worried about the prospect of getting lynched ... instead looking more concerned with finding scum. He's just sitting calmly, with 5 votes on him, and actually flagging people as scummy for

not

joining in discussing him. I would expect scum to be more panicky at this point; more willing to join other bandwagons mindlessly while defending themselves vehemently.

So, in conclusion, I'm increasingly of the opinion that DT is actually town. There are worthier targets here.

However, his bandwagon still doesn't seem to be moving. There are still plenty of people convinced he's scum. Therefore, I am also increasingly of the opinion that if he is in fact town, the scum will be very tempted to let him live the night in order to mess with the town.

[deepthought]

Try expanding your case against liamcool. You're already in a bad position. I also like how you keep labeling the truckload of valid suspicions against you a "bandwagon".

Do you expect a vampire lord to uphold his end of a bargain after the fact?

Because I don't.

[charter]

@Nudude, liamcool, Thanatos, charter and Disciple Slayer.

Could you guys all give me a post on why your voting for DT?

Pretty much all my posts for the last few days have been on this. The fact that he has to decide which role to claim to try and save himself when he's created a mountain of suspicion on himself. No townie would fake a power role to save their own skin. They should do what's best for the town and just take the lynch rather than lie to the rest of the town. It also makes me not believe his claim.

(hypothetical situation: DT is pro-town).If we don't lynch DT, I doubt the scum/SK? will NK him because he is so suspicous already, we'll probably lynch him tommorrow, giving the scum another townie-kill.

I can't imagine any other situation than this if we don't lynch DT today. The scum would have to be crazy to murder him when several people have said they'll lynch him tomorrow if he survives tonight.

stuff

You seem to have avoided talking about me altogether (aside from "Thanatos is slightly scummier than DT"), and surely you realize this looks like you trying to avoid a bandwagon you know is going to turn sour at the end of the day.

I propose a trade: you tell everyone what exactly you think of me and why, and I'll expand my case against liamcool.

Try expanding your case against liamcool. You're already in a bad position. I also like how you keep labeling the truckload of valid suspicions against you a "bandwagon".

QFT

Try expanding your case against liamcool. You're already in a bad position. I also like how you keep labeling the truckload of valid suspicions against you a "bandwagon".

Do you expect a vampire lord to uphold his end of a bargain after the fact?

Because I don't.

How is this anything but a blatent dodge of answering his request? You do this all the time to all kinds of requests. No one else seems to pick up on it and find it to be even more suspicious of you though...

[Numenorean7]

Insurgent is replacing Lord Nikon. Thanks Insurgent, and welcome to the game!

Hang 'em High has been prodded.

[Hang 'em High]

Responding to my prod. I'll admit I got turned off to this game due to the flame war and ridiculous personal attacks. It seems like that has ended, so I'll try to catch up and post some content soon.

[deepthought]

Pretty much all my posts for the last few days have been on this. The fact that he has to decide which role to claim to try and save himself when he's created a mountain of suspicion on himself. No townie would fake a power role to save their own skin.

I didn't consider it to save my own skin, I considered it as a "fuck you" after the bandwagon took off on little more than an argument-by-repetition that I'm an asshole. If it had succeeded I probably would've been lynched outright and kicked off the site.

How is this anything but a blatent dodge of answering his request? You do this all the time to all kinds of requests. No one else seems to pick up on it and find it to be even more suspicious of you though...

VL pops in after lurking hardcore with a throw-away vote for Thanatos and an "everyone else, tell me why you're voting for who you're voting for". This

1) Makes him look like he's contributing by holding others' feet to the fire, when in reality he's just listing off players and saying "post stuff", and

2) Directs attention

away

from the fact that he hasn't posted anything substantive concerning the big pink gorilla in the room. This could potentially be an effort to keep his name away from a bandwagon he knows will result in a townie lynch, which is usually what you look for in a day-1 "where'd that come from?" vote.

If 2's correct, it's a smokescreen for idiots. Hence, "give me something substantive you're willing to attach your name to and then I'll talk to you about liamcool".

[Infinitive]

Deepthought- The pink gorilla in the room being...? I suspect that you're referring to Liam, but I want to hear these things out of your mouth.

[Insurgent]

Hey guys, I've been reading the thread and this is what I think.

Nudude: town
Vampyrelord: maybe scum
Gorgon: town
liamcool: maybe scum
HangemHigh: town
Disciple Slayer: town
Dark Lady Shaiann: town
Thanatos: town
Infinitive: maybe scum
deepthought: maybe scum
charter: town

[unvote

I dont think I'm going to explain what Lord Nikon did. I can't talk for him.

[Insurgent]

unvote

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

I like the way I got called out for being slightly inactive, and then when I contributed no one commented on it...... Even if my post was a bit 'out there' I still feel it deserves some type of acknowledgment and a constructive response.

[Thanatos]

Well, DLS, the reason I didn't say anything was because, honestly, it's nothing I hadn't thought of or mentioned before.

[deepthought]

Deepthought- The pink gorilla in the room being...? I suspect that you're referring to Liam, but I want to hear these things out of your mouth.

You seem to have avoided talking about me altogether (aside from "Thanatos is slightly scummier than DT"), and surely you realize this looks like you trying to avoid a bandwagon you know is going to turn sour at the end of the day.

[deepthought]

I dont think I'm going to explain what Lord Nikon did. I can't talk for him.

It wouldn't take long if you did anyway.