Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[Transcend]

And if you think my tr was implausible, giga he was in your top tier of town reads along with me, kts trd him, and he was the best tr of wing/ira who got flipped immediately when they joined the game.

[mhsmith0]

if you wanna vote me go for it. I'm solidly leaning towards it being you, and if I'm wrong and it's giga then so be it.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

why does possibly being in the hammering position have to be so emotionally taxing

yeah a tenshii townread isn't implausible at all, but the nightkills don't really make sense with a mhsmith goon

[mhsmith0]

I'd say very little this game makes snese with me as the goon.

1) KC's push on KTS with karnos as the #2 is just strange if buddies; like, the advantage to lynching a buddy D2 instead of D1 is nearly zero, and it mainly just makes him look bad if the KTS one went through first.

2) NK's make very little sense from me

3) the work I did to try and actually clear people, most notably D2

etc.

The case against me was always silly IMO.

[Transcend]

I need to look at a few things before i make any final decisions. Like i said, i have a massive amount of respect for you and your effort this game. It would absolutely destroy me if you did flip town and i was the reason we both lost. But throughout the course of the game i don't think that your effort was town motivated, rather, just really good scum play. I make no decision until I'm fully awake though.

Pedit please fuck off with the night kill analysis bullshit. I am town and i would be gutted to be hammered off of some stupid shit like nka. I have told you countless fucking times why using it is ineffective. Scum can kill whoever the fuck they want to win the game. Whether it makes sense or not.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

the thing is, the townbloc is horrible for mhsmith because if it was entirely town, he's put in auto loss. That requires him to actually make optimal nightkills and think about the game carefully. So, sure Thor could be a WIFOM kill or something, but there needs to be a good reason to think so.

so if it is in fact mhsmith, you need to push him the way he is pushing you because i'm starting to get swayed.

[Transcend]

Anyways giga i have a feeling you will get hammer and you will hammer me. I swear on everything that's not the right choice. You have waffled this entire fucking game and you've been letting town reads you've had get lynched left and right due to doubting yourself. You're not a shit player giga. You pounced karnos d1. You correctly had two town in your top tier on day 2. Your constant waffling has led you to participate in mislynch after mislynch. You need to learn to trust your initial thoughts. Because from the bottom of my heart if you are town you were correct with me being town for all of the game. I refuse to let you hammer me after you had me as confident town all game. I refuse to get hammered when i tried my absolute damndest to make sure you didn't lynch my tr which was formerly your tr.

[mhsmith0]

NKA is part of the discussion. What matters as much is that the NK's seem to fit pretty nicely with what wolf!you would be trying to do. N3 rosske's biggest defender dies, you push there. N4 one of my attackers dies (someone who'd posted with more energy than substance frankly), you push there. It's easy to see NK's dovetailing with whta you're trying to do.

I also look at your stuff today as weak. Serious AtE early on, and then question spamming, but it was weird for you to miss the answers to your questions that I'd made (see http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8337796 ).

I also kind of read http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8338401 as off. Like, I'd agree the last goon played well, but I'd also say that much of the town played poorly. Going from a day 1 wolf lynch to LYLO is annoying, would be even more annoying to outright lose.

[mhsmith0]

the thing is, the townbloc is horrible for mhsmith because if it was entirely town, he's put in auto loss. That requires him to actually make optimal nightkills and think about the game carefully. So, sure Thor could be a WIFOM kill or something, but there needs to be a good reason to think so.

so if it is in fact mhsmith, you need to push him the way he is pushing you because i'm starting to get swayed.

So where is your headspace at this point? Questions for one or the other of us?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hghghg

you're right though transcend

but the only reason i scumread mhsmith AT ALL was because i felt you out-towned him. if the townbloc could have included 6 people, he would have been in there too. no matter what though in that case, there would have been scum in that townbloc.

and like... my read on you absolutely COULD be wrong. when there's a stronger case against you and no case in favor of you, waffling is the natural reaction

like it's obvious whoever is the last goon put me in the hammering position for that reason... which is why

maybe

it can still be mhsmith. but wth is mhsmith killing Io and not letting Tenshii get lynched, which is like the only reason I can think of for him to not kill Thor until now.

@Mhsmith, obviously I'm leaning towards Transcend scum, but Transcend is right that my waffling is exactly what lead us here and I don't think I'd forgive myself for mislynching him. I really do not know what to ask of you but I would like Transcend to at least give something more of a case that isn't just rehashing his own quotes!

[Transcend]

Anywho giga if you're going to vote based on who has the better case, mhsmith is gonna win this game and I'll just self vote right now and speed up the process. I have exerted a shit ton of effort in this game i made a giant recollection of thoughts from my iso to support smith scum and Tenshii town. Smith seems to be taking every flaw in my game and absolutely dumping on it to benefit his.

I will not stoop to doing massive quote walls to win a game. I have other things i need to do. But i have given all my thoughts and i really have nothing more to bring to the table.

Like i said you're the biggest waffle this fucking game and you've doubted so many trs to lynch them. Today is no different.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i am being manipulated but i cannot tell who is manipulating me

this is horrible.

[Transcend]

And yeah no pressure or anything but i will be extremely gutted if you lynch me after all the effort i exerted and after all the sleepless nights I've had from trying to solve this game. It won't impact our friendship at all though it's a tough hammer and i don't hold anything against you personally.

[Transcend]

I'm likely gonna vote very soon and clear you. Enjoy your scum win if I'm wrong. But it's almost next to impossible for you to be scum.

[mhsmith0]

Well, what makes you lean me? What makes you lean him? Talk about where your reads are coming from beyond "it's hard". Trans is pretty hard-core AtE'ing right now, which isn't 100% wolf from him, but seems likelier wolf than town. Like, it seems like his basic attitude today has been "holy cow I could actually win and NO WAY will I let myself be lynched when I was so close to winning". I also think it's weird that he's going hard on question spamming and seeming game-solving now, when he could have chosen to do that a while ago. It's such a disconnect from his earlier play that it makes me think that he's going for the win, not in terms of actually finding the last wolf, but just in terms of looking townie and not getting lynched.

[Transcend]

I ate in every single game i play. I think I'm a skilled AtEr

So yeah again you just point out any flaw i make then call it scummy.

[mhsmith0]

And yeah no pressure or anything but i will be extremely gutted if you lynch me after all the effort i exerted and after all the sleepless nights I've had from trying to solve this game. It won't impact our friendship at all though it's a tough hammer and i don't hold anything against you personally.

I'm likely gonna vote very soon and clear you. Enjoy your scum win if I'm wrong. But it's almost next to impossible for you to be scum.

If it's giga I'll be impressed. Annoyed that we as town never really forced giga to do anything meaningful post D1, but I just can't see their D1 as being w/w with karnos, while I can see that from you (the lack of interest in the karnos case was bizarre as a town perspective), and the D2+ stuff doesn't look nearly as clearing on you as I'd originally thought.

[Transcend]

Fuck off I've been game solving all game, not just today, and I'm not gonna let your stupid case on me say otherwise.

[mhsmith0]

I ate in every single game i play. I think I'm a skilled AtEr

So yeah again you just point out any flaw i make then call it scummy.

AtE is somewhat wolfy but nothing close to a lock case by itself. It's weird for it to come in hard today when it wasn't really around in previous days though to nearly the same extent.

It also seems like your game-solving efforts here have been more for show than for real.

I also don't think I've pointed out all your flaws to call them scummy. Some of them, yes, but I think I've been taking a pretty reasonable approach in terms of actually trying to evaluate what you've been doing and plausible motive behind it.

[Transcend]

You irritate me so much.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@Transcend, i completely understand and i feel the same way about you

i really do not want this to be an AtE fest though

@Mhsmith, You've made a good case explaining why you wouldn't kill Io. Logically speaking, that makes you more likely to be town than Transcend, who I think has the motive to make all of the kills that happened. What I want Transcend to do is at least explain why that isn't the case because I think it's only fair to use the evidence we've been provided with to find the last goon. The nightkills is where there are unresolved questions, essentially, and I think that's the most important thing for Transcend to look at if he wants to prove it's you because you've been put in an auto-loss position if you are in fact scum.

sorry i was really uninterested this game, mafia is a team effort and i really did not pull my weight this game.

[mhsmith0]

Fuck off I've been game solving all game, not just today, and I'm not gonna let your stupid case on me say otherwise.

Except you really haven't. Thor was blasting you a while ago for not really having substance behind your reads (see the "magic 8 ball" bit), and I'd say that is largely accurate. That part isn't necessarily strongly AI (I've seen bad town do it before), but your tenshii town read was IMO weakly supported (but strongly sold), but it contrasts to what seems like more valid and thoughtful game-solving from giga.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

like

the townbloc put mhsmith in a horrible position if he is scum

so he can't really waste any nightkills to intentionally sow confusion...

[mhsmith0]

You irritate me so much.

That's ok, I do that a lot

[mhsmith0]

@Transcend, i completely understand and i feel the same way about you

i really do not want this to be an AtE fest though

@Mhsmith, You've made a good case explaining why you wouldn't kill Io. Logically speaking, that makes you more likely to be town than Transcend, who I think has the motive to make all of the kills that happened. What I want Transcend to do is at least explain why that isn't the case because I think it's only fair to use the evidence we've been provided with to find the last goon. The nightkills is where there are unresolved questions, essentially, and I think that's the most important thing for Transcend to look at if he wants to prove it's you because you've been put in an auto-loss position if you are in fact scum.

sorry i was really uninterested this game, mafia is a team effort and i really did not pull my weight this game.

It's the uninterested bit that does make me suspect you, it's theoretically conceivable that you bussed and then coasted behind being uninterested. My problem with that idea is that your D1 really didn't look like it was a bus, either on your end or from karnos's end.