Mini 1830 - Game Over

[VictorDeAngelo]

Which is more convenient: A self-proclaimed metagame that allows someone to get away with always being scummy, or a policy against it?

So are you policy voting him or are you voting him because you think he's scum?

You can't have it both ways.

[CCC]

Is your vote the only thing you're doing to push RhazhBash?

Pretty much, yes. This question seems to imply I'm not doing enough, so I'll ask this. Given how little Rhazh is posting what else do you think I should be doing at this point in the game?

I understand that asking him questions and trying to engage with him is an important part of the process.

[CCC]

I am getting townvibes from Square World.

How? What has he done that's at all townish?

[CCC]

Wait, never mind, eagerSnake already asked that, and here is the reply:

@Victor What exactly has Square World done that was inherently townie?

If you must know, I liked his response to the second question in 250.

The "response to the second question" in question being:

And on another note why not a direct response to 229. Should I infer Gerry and Manual are your only scumreads?

calm down, i dont get a read on everyone within 2 days

Ummmmm... this is a clear null statement to me. How is this possibly Townish?

[eagerSnake]

Which is more convenient: A self-proclaimed metagame that allows someone to get away with always being scummy, or a policy against it?

So are you policy voting him or are you voting him because you think he's scum?

You can't have it both ways.

I've found that "guilty until proven innocent" works better in this game.

When Square World posted, he didn't even try to explain anything. Frankly, I think your townread on him is inexplicable. His response to my accusation was then a self-proclaimed metadefense of always being scummy, which doesn't help and never will. Like I said, I have a policy of not accepting metagame defenses that allow people to get away with always being scummy. His responses, therefore, did not manage to alleviate even my original suspicions.

My perspective: Scum do scummy things more often than town do scummy things. Thus scummy things are scummy, even if townies do them too. People who deliberately play in a way that is scummy hurts the town should be lynched for it, repeatedly, until they stop.

Posting your honest opinions of things only helps the town. Partly because it helps us not misread you, partly because we can check for changes in opinion, and partly so we can check for people who are avoiding expressing concrete suspicions. The only other side of this is when town hides their thoughts because they have the ulterior motive of gauging a reaction. This is sometimes useful, but should be retroactively explained.

[Square World]

the problem is that you're assuming me not explaining in a way a 5-years-old kid would understand is scummy

[Square World]

@Gren

I fos RhazhBash , hence the vote. I think you have had townie lines like i've explained. I don't see the rush in making reads when we aren't even 10 pages in yet. But, I'd be confident lynching RhazhBash the most right now

lol

VOTE: gerryoat

isn't the quote auto-explainable there?

[eagerSnake]

You didn't explain AT ALL. What are you talking about? Where have you explained anything? At all?

ninja'd: No, it's not "auto-explainable." I don't see how that makes gerryoat scum, and I don't think anyone else does either. If you were town, you would want us to see it.

[Square World]

he's being opportunistic

Opportunism is the conscious policy and practice of taking advantage of circumstances – with little regard for principles, or with what the consequences are for others. Opportunist actions are expedient actions guided primarily by self-interested motives. The term can be applied to individual humans and living organisms, groups, organizations, styles, behaviours, and trends.

[CCC]

In his last game he had a scum or town read on every player in the game, 1 day after gamestart. This post is 2nd day after gamestart.

Hmmmmmmmmm. Poking through those links, I notice that Square World didn't explain his reads there, either. Sure, he had them, but he maintained his habit of short, near-useless posts.

Looking at

this

game, he's claimed that real life prevented him from paying as much attention to this game as he otherwise might have. I'm temporarily willing to give him enough benefit of the doubt to assume this is true for the moment. (Which would leave him mostly null so far).

Today

, however, he's clearly got time to spend on the game, so I'll expect to see his more complete reads list fairly soon.

[Square World]

i noticed you used to sheep reads with little to no explanation, what happened there?

[CCC]

Now my vote on Manuel is serious. He looks more like he's pushing on low hanging fruit than hunting scum. There's a lot indicative of the type of player Snake is in the thread, but not his alignment IMO.

I get more bad feels from this post than anything eager has done though.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RhazhBash

And to pre-empt the next question:
No, I'm explaining further at this time.

Victor: You posted this quite a while back and, as far as I can see, you have never yet explained further. Have I missed something? If not, then would you like to explain further now?

[Square World]

so I'll expect to see his more complete reads list fairly soon.

Creature's early posts don't really contribute much of substance. If the game needs more 'spice', as they claim, it would be lovely if they were to introduce that. Random reads with no explanations, an unwillingness to explain any of them at all on post #108, followed by a deflection towards the inactives in #130. If he is, as he claims, a man of few words, this makes sense. I might read a previous game or two to get a better read.

I like JaeReed's first few posts, although as others have pointed out the reaction tests had been exposed well before he entered the game properly. Engages well to make up for the relative lateness, and asks perceptive questions. This continues for the rest of the game up to this point. Leaning town.

I don't like the way Parama enters the game. Maybe that's just because their first few posts look far too serious for the RVS/immediately post-RVS stage, and their serious interpretation of posts made early in the game, but something about it rubs me up the wrong way. Remark on post #141 is particularly annoying ('why do you care about jaereed's post 8 townreads') since they're happy enough to read into something as early as post #2. Reading later into the game, however, I'm beginning to like the content of their posts a little more, if not their tone.

Dunnstral I'm null-leaning-town on. Early game comments are useful, but then there's a fairly confusing mess about misinterpretations with KittenLicks later on. This reads as town on town to me, not least because they both seem to be working in the same direction and some of the disagreement is about theory rather than just comments. Later posts clear up confusion and serve to focus the conversation where it might otherwise have gone somewhere less promising.

BDT6_Maker we have almost nothing on. Half of their posts are excuses for not posting. I don't like this. Seconding calls for a replacement if they can't give the game the attention it deserves. I don't like post #325, however. Nothing about the post he's quoting demands a response calling attention to roles.

GreyIce and thenewearth are both recent entrants and I have little on them as of right now, although I'm not a fan of the latter's attacks on KittenLicks. P-EDIT: really not a fan.

I'm not all that convinced by the case on Kitten. The discussion of the circle mechanic is null, especially since it occupied other players such as Dunnstral and Creature, the former of whom doesn't appear in thenewearth's suspect list. I don't think post #26 is rolefishing either, since Kitten attempted to shut down discussion before (and does it again in this post). If anything, this exchange just reflects badly on GuiltyLion, who not only keeps asking about something it's clear might be damaging, but then goes on to talk about potential PR claims in post #23, which is far more rolefish-y. I generally like Kitten's posts, so I'm leaning town here too.

I do, however, agree with Dunnstral's assessment of Clumsy Phoenix's early posts. Post #45 is a little scummy; it seems needlessly preoccupied, given there's only a couple of votes on Clumsy Phoenix, with proving their own innocence, and it isn't actually doing anything. It takes until post #81 for them to start being proactive (and even then there's a reference to them being not scum), and then in their next post, #83, we return to the introspection. Incidentally, the first time I read the whole 'any response I make will look scummy' thing, I thought it could be frustrated town, but the reiteration in their most recent post gives me the opposite impression.

Here's the problem with your statement: you're not playing to it. I agree with the sentiment, explaining yourself clearly and moving on is a good thing to do, but you keep returning to the issue (and there have been several issues) all the while reminding us of what you're (not) doing and how it's actually town behaviour (or, at least, how any behaviour you could engage in is scummy, so you're not scum).

Unvote

Vote: Clumsy Phoenix

There was unsurprisingly a lot to read, so if anyone wants clarification or more detail, just ask.

[CCC]

Posting your honest opinions of things only helps the town. Partly because it helps us not misread you, partly because we can check for changes in opinion, and partly so we can check for people who are avoiding expressing concrete suspicions. The only other side of this is when town hides their thoughts because they have the ulterior motive of gauging a reaction. This is sometimes useful, but should be retroactively explained.

I would like to take this opportunity to thoroughly agree with this paragraph.

[Square World]

i can post my opinions, but not explain them like the quote from 287

[CCC]

@Gren

I fos RhazhBash , hence the vote. I think you have had townie lines like i've explained. I don't see the rush in making reads when we aren't even 10 pages in yet. But, I'd be confident lynching RhazhBash the most right now

lol

VOTE: gerryoat

isn't the quote auto-explainable there?

No.

Are you scumreading him because you think his avatar is annoying? Are you scumreading him because you're townreading Rhazhbash? Are you scumreading him because you disapprove in principle of fingers of suspicion? Are you scumreading him because he thinks Grendel is Town? Are you scumreading him because he uses @ signs in his posts?

[CCC]

he's being opportunistic

Opportunism is the conscious policy and practice of taking advantage of circumstances – with little regard for principles, or with what the consequences are for others. Opportunist actions are expedient actions guided primarily by self-interested motives. The term can be applied to individual humans and living organisms, groups, organizations, styles, behaviours, and trends.

Okay,

how

is he being opportunistic?

[Square World]

rhazhbash is probtown because there are opportunistic scum on him

@Gren

I fos RhazhBash , hence the vote. I think you have had townie lines like i've explained. I don't see the rush in making reads when we aren't even 10 pages in yet. But, I'd be confident lynching RhazhBash the most right now

lol

VOTE: gerryoat

[Square World]

he's being opportunistic

Opportunism is the conscious policy and practice of taking advantage of circumstances – with little regard for principles, or with what the consequences are for others. Opportunist actions are expedient actions guided primarily by self-interested motives. The term can be applied to individual humans and living organisms, groups, organizations, styles, behaviours, and trends.

Okay,

how

is he being opportunistic?

rhazh is lynchbaity, wouldn't be surprised if there were scum on him

[CCC]

i can post my opinions, but not explain them like the quote from 287

I like the readslist that you quoted in 287. Thoroughly explained, lots of detail. It has everything. Just a pity it's neither yours nor applicable to the game.

But just a list of who you think is or is not scum would be a good start.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I am getting townvibes from Square World.

How? What has he done that's at all townish?

It's responses are somewhat impulsive. In my experience that comes from town more than scum. Scum need time to calculate their posts whereas town do not. Furthermore, now Square's arrived it seems keen to play the game and I agree with more of it's points than I disagree.

Wait, never mind, eagerSnake already asked that, and here is the reply:

@Victor What exactly has Square World done that was inherently townie?

If you must know, I liked his response to the second question in 250.

The "response to the second question" in question being:

And on another note why not a direct response to 229. Should I infer Gerry and Manual are your only scumreads?

calm down, i dont get a read on everyone within 2 days

Ummmmm... this is a clear null statement to me. How is this possibly Townish?

In addition to what was said above, I like the way in which Square wasn't rattled here. It didn't seem to want to rush or force a read like scum would. This answer in fact would be likely to be unpopular. So ask yourself this, who is more likely to post in such a way; town or scum?

Which is more convenient: A self-proclaimed metagame that allows someone to get away with always being scummy, or a policy against it?

So are you policy voting him or are you voting him because you think he's scum?

You can't have it both ways.

~snip~ loads of words that don't acutally answer the question~

Snake, are you policy voting SquareWorld or are you voting him because you think he's scum?

Now my vote on Manuel is serious. He looks more like he's pushing on low hanging fruit than hunting scum. There's a lot indicative of the type of player Snake is in the thread, but not his alignment IMO.

I get more bad feels from this post than anything eager has done though.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RhazhBash

And to pre-empt the next question:
No, I'm explaining further at this time.

Victor: You posted this quite a while back and, as far as I can see, you have never yet explained further. Have I missed something? If not, then would you like to explain further now?

Nope, I don't think I explained this further. I'll say this in case it wasn't obvious; the quoted post was the reason I voted Rhazh. Rereading Manuel post's prior this should tell you why I got so many bad feels.

[CCC]

Here's my current list, for example:

1. gerryoat - Null leaning Townish - hasn't stood out, but has been quietly scumhunting
2. Gamma Emerald - Null leaning scummish - more sure of the size of the mafia team than the total number of scum
3. Grendel - Null leaning strongly Town - doing a hefty share of scumhunting
4. RhazhBash - Near complete null, leaning weakly scummish - needs to do more scumhunting
5. CCC - Town all the way
6. Square World - Null leaning scummish - needs to explain himself a little more
7.

GreenNope

Huntress - Null for now - needs to post something
8. Manuel87 - Null leaning slightly scummish - don't think he's made a non-RVS vote yet (could be just cautious)
9. The_Jester - Null leaning very slightly scummish
10. eagerSnake - Townish. He's really making a lot of good points and asking a lot of right questions
11. VictorDeAngelo - Null leaning scummish. I don't like how he's shutting down certain questions, and I don't like his inexplicable Townread on Square World.

[CCC]

I am getting townvibes from Square World.

How? What has he done that's at all townish?

It's responses are somewhat impulsive. In my experience that comes from town more than scum. Scum need time to calculate their posts whereas town do not.

Huh. I'm surprised. This is actually a reasonable reason.

I don't agree that it makes him Town, but I do see how a Town player might think this.

In addition to what was said above, I like the way in which Square wasn't rattled here. It didn't seem to want to rush or force a read like scum would. This answer in fact would be likely to be unpopular. So ask yourself this, who is more likely to post in such a way; town or scum?

I do think that scum trying to maintain flexibility in reads might want to be slow to commit to a reads list; but again, I can see how a Town player might have this opinion.

Now my vote on Manuel is serious. He looks more like he's pushing on low hanging fruit than hunting scum. There's a lot indicative of the type of player Snake is in the thread, but not his alignment IMO.

I get more bad feels from this post than anything eager has done though.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RhazhBash

And to pre-empt the next question:
No, I'm explaining further at this time.

Victor: You posted this quite a while back and, as far as I can see, you have never yet explained further. Have I missed something? If not, then would you like to explain further now?

Nope, I don't think I explained this further. I'll say this in case it wasn't obvious; the quoted post was the reason I voted Rhazh. Rereading Manuel post's prior this should tell you why I got so many bad feels.

Okay, I'm going to tell you the same thing I've been telling Square World - just because it's obvious to you doesn't mean it's obvious to me. Elaborate, please?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Okay, I'm going to tell you the same thing I've been telling Square World - just because it's obvious to you doesn't mean it's obvious to me. Elaborate, please?

Quick question, did you reread Manuel's early posts?

[CCC]

Okay, I'm going to tell you the same thing I've been telling Square World - just because it's obvious to you doesn't mean it's obvious to me. Elaborate, please?

Quick question, did you reread Manuel's early posts?

Yes, and I can see why Rhazh was scumreading him for them.