STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[mastin2]

hey lookie, most of rr's recent posts have been speculating about things that he shouldn't know as town
but what do they actually do
add nothing to the game and be scummy
hooray!

Basically, yeah!

Reason we don't have any wagon existing other than theirs.

[farside22]

Do you know snarky's meta? I tried to talk with fire about this because he modded a game with snarky scum and I pointed out his start here was strikely similar to here.

Not well enough. I know he's a low-content, borderline-VI poster alignment-regardless. I do have methods of reading players like him, and I'm probably one of the better players at doing just that, it's just that it's far from an exact science. There's lots of guesswork involved. SnarkySnowman's a solid null right now. Could be town, could be scum. What I've seen has me guessing at town, but I wouldn't know for sure until later. I'm good, but not perfect.

Fair enough.

I feel like hammering home how bad RR is being, but then I realized I really don't have to.

Carry on.

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside - Super anti-town play yesterday with what she did. If you think about the implications of it and how it could have been leveraged for maximum utility, her blowing up that event was the most anti-town thing I've ever seen on the site.
Foxbird - Read the ISO. Self-explanatory.
DGB - The whole Traitor thing. Makes zero sense. DGB also moved us to firm town late yesterday but then just voted us today. Back to the traitor thing: what would make DGB think there's a traitor unless she is one? It's not a thing I remember Varsoon using before and I don't see anything in the info we have to suggest one is present. Only way DGB is town is if it was a reaction test, but if that's the case, why isn't DGB engage din the main thread doing things like that?
KC - Something was off about the response to the DGB thing. If I were KC, there's no way someone could claim to be a scum to me and live. KC barely pushed it. That isn't a town response, imo.
You - Gut. You're too smart to actually think we're scum and you are also too smart to join in on an ego push, yet you seem to be doing both.

1) You missed the part where you're suppose to explain the scum motive
2) I'm reading the iso. Need this one explained to me.
3) Is DGB one of your buddies?
4) Decent point there on klingon, though.
5) What the heck is an ego push?

1.) Scum motive is distancing from a doomed scum buddy. I thought that was obvious and self-evident. I'm glad it wasn't though, because Farside appears to have scum slipped.
2.) Show me anything at all in there that's town. (To be fair, there's probably more ISOs like that, but I haven't ISOd the whole game yet; please see my earlier post about Stage 2 Decubitus Ulcer plus a night in jail)
3.) We're not masons.
4.) I know.
5.) Mastin hasn't given any reason to scum read us. Me grilling Firebringer trying to figure out why he was behaving unusual is not scummy. Me quoting her pointing out that she also got a scum ping off of him earlier is not scummy. In fact, it reinforces the fact that it wasn't just me who saw something off about him. As far as I can see, the whole push is Ego based. I mean ... look at yesterday. Cerberus put in a shit load of work to make a solid case against SC, which SC responded poorly to. Then Mastin made a super generalized post a couple pages later and tried to position herself to get credit after Cerb made it clear SC was probably scum. I mean ... to be fair to Mastin, she

did

have SC in her scum pool really early on ... but she never put the work in. She did want the credit though. And if you review the mid-late part of day one you'll see that some people thought her "case" was posted before Cerb put up his analysis. That's how much sway Mastin has over some people ... they will believe things happened in opposite order than they really do.

~D

[farside22]

I'll have to ask some questions to the mod first, farside

and get some sleep too... it's almost 3am after all

That's fine I'll give that notice and have it take effect 12 est.

So I'm going to suggest nicely to get your alliances in order.
Skybird, you and me again, ok.

Also the event thing that came about some people should not use there ability.
I'll offer if skybird is okay doing it too.

By the way this is serious.
I rarely do the gambit thing.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Wait wait wait.

So what you're saying is that farside is pretending to think that her being put into a hood with scum lends credence to her being town in order to get town-cred. And that destorying the joyride was scum theater?

What interactions stand out to you as scum/scum wrt to farside and cakes?
I don't remember them interacting very much at all in-thread at least.
I know that it seemed like farside was townreading cakes because he was doing a lot of buddying towards her by making his stances sorta appeal to her perspective in some cases. But nothing to make me think they're buddies. Or at least nothing that blasted out to me as such.

If I was playing scum, Farside treated Cakey liked I'd treat my buddy. I'm sick and weird though soo...

[Reasonably Rational]

@mastin: Or it could be the fact that we're 5 hours into the start of the day phase and the people who have actually showed up and vote thoughtlessly are the same ones who fall into the category I described earlier.

You're right that my posts haven't done much yet though, since I let myself get drawn into stupid defending myself discussions.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

hey lookie, most of rr's recent posts have been speculating about things that he shouldn't know as town
but what do they actually do
add nothing to the game and be scummy
hooray!

Basically, yeah!

Reason we don't have any wagon existing other than theirs.

We wouldn't know that Firebird was almost certainly not killed by scum if not for YOU saying what you did Mastin.

The only other speculation we have engaged in is about the publicly announced event the scum team started. Did you guys pay any attention to that at all?

~D

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Of course, RR is acting exactly like I did in SU...

[farside22]

Farside - Super anti-town play yesterday with what she did. If you think about the implications of it and how it could have been leveraged for maximum utility, her blowing up that event was the most anti-town thing I've ever seen on the site.
Foxbird - Read the ISO. Self-explanatory.
DGB - The whole Traitor thing. Makes zero sense. DGB also moved us to firm town late yesterday but then just voted us today. Back to the traitor thing: what would make DGB think there's a traitor unless she is one? It's not a thing I remember Varsoon using before and I don't see anything in the info we have to suggest one is present. Only way DGB is town is if it was a reaction test, but if that's the case, why isn't DGB engage din the main thread doing things like that?
KC - Something was off about the response to the DGB thing. If I were KC, there's no way someone could claim to be a scum to me and live. KC barely pushed it. That isn't a town response, imo.
You - Gut. You're too smart to actually think we're scum and you are also too smart to join in on an ego push, yet you seem to be doing both.

1) You missed the part where you're suppose to explain the scum motive
2) I'm reading the iso. Need this one explained to me.
3) Is DGB one of your buddies?
4) Decent point there on klingon, though.
5) What the heck is an ego push?

1.) Scum motive is distancing from a doomed scum buddy. I thought that was obvious and self-evident. I'm glad it wasn't though, because Farside appears to have scum slipped.
2.) Show me anything at all in there that's town. (To be fair, there's probably more ISOs like that, but I haven't ISOd the whole game yet; please see my earlier post about Stage 2 Decubitus Ulcer plus a night in jail)
3.) We're not masons.
4.) I know.
5.) Mastin hasn't given any reason to scum read us. Me grilling Firebringer trying to figure out why he was behaving unusual is not scummy. Me quoting her pointing out that she also got a scum ping off of him earlier is not scummy. In fact, it reinforces the fact that it wasn't just me who saw something off about him. As far as I can see, the whole push is Ego based. I mean ... look at yesterday. Cerberus put in a shit load of work to make a solid case against SC, which SC responded poorly to. Then Mastin made a super generalized post a couple pages later and tried to position herself to get credit after Cerb made it clear SC was probably scum. I mean ... to be fair to Mastin, she

did

have SC in her scum pool really early on ... but she never put the work in. She did want the credit though. And if you review the mid-late part of day one you'll see that some people thought her "case" was posted before Cerb put up his analysis. That's how much sway Mastin has over some people ... they will believe things happened in opposite order than they really do.

~D

I know self meta is like a no no, but you should really read my scum games. Because that is not in the realm of something I do.
Heck, ask mastin if you want. I bet she has seen what I do.

[Reasonably Rational]

@all

- We're literally a few hours into the day phase and Farside is claiming to be unilaterally deciding to end the day. This coming right as I point out what might be a slip by her, and she's in a gigantic hurry to get us dead and the day over, despite a pretty huge elephant in the room that needs to be discussed.

Her push to try and get us dead and the day over is ridiculously over the top scummy. We give out an investigate in a game where there are not likely to be many others (if any). That is something that will be voted on and there's two obvious conftowns so if we live, that hurts scum. Furthermore, there's a scum event that got triggered. Go look at the start of day post and think. What would happen if the day suddenly ends super fast and alliances aren't worked out and no discussion goes on about how to try and blunt the scum event that was announced?

Only scum want this day to end fast.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside - Super anti-town play yesterday with what she did. If you think about the implications of it and how it could have been leveraged for maximum utility, her blowing up that event was the most anti-town thing I've ever seen on the site.
Foxbird - Read the ISO. Self-explanatory.
DGB - The whole Traitor thing. Makes zero sense. DGB also moved us to firm town late yesterday but then just voted us today. Back to the traitor thing: what would make DGB think there's a traitor unless she is one? It's not a thing I remember Varsoon using before and I don't see anything in the info we have to suggest one is present. Only way DGB is town is if it was a reaction test, but if that's the case, why isn't DGB engage din the main thread doing things like that?
KC - Something was off about the response to the DGB thing. If I were KC, there's no way someone could claim to be a scum to me and live. KC barely pushed it. That isn't a town response, imo.
You - Gut. You're too smart to actually think we're scum and you are also too smart to join in on an ego push, yet you seem to be doing both.

1) You missed the part where you're suppose to explain the scum motive
2) I'm reading the iso. Need this one explained to me.
3) Is DGB one of your buddies?
4) Decent point there on klingon, though.
5) What the heck is an ego push?

1.) Scum motive is distancing from a doomed scum buddy. I thought that was obvious and self-evident. I'm glad it wasn't though, because Farside appears to have scum slipped.
2.) Show me anything at all in there that's town. (To be fair, there's probably more ISOs like that, but I haven't ISOd the whole game yet; please see my earlier post about Stage 2 Decubitus Ulcer plus a night in jail)
3.) We're not masons.
4.) I know.
5.) Mastin hasn't given any reason to scum read us. Me grilling Firebringer trying to figure out why he was behaving unusual is not scummy. Me quoting her pointing out that she also got a scum ping off of him earlier is not scummy. In fact, it reinforces the fact that it wasn't just me who saw something off about him. As far as I can see, the whole push is Ego based. I mean ... look at yesterday. Cerberus put in a shit load of work to make a solid case against SC, which SC responded poorly to. Then Mastin made a super generalized post a couple pages later and tried to position herself to get credit after Cerb made it clear SC was probably scum. I mean ... to be fair to Mastin, she

did

have SC in her scum pool really early on ... but she never put the work in. She did want the credit though. And if you review the mid-late part of day one you'll see that some people thought her "case" was posted before Cerb put up his analysis. That's how much sway Mastin has over some people ... they will believe things happened in opposite order than they really do.

~D

I know self meta is like a no no, but you should really read my scum games. Because that is not in the realm of something I do.
Heck, ask mastin if you want. I bet she has seen what I do.

You're right. Self-meta is bad. You're also acting ridiculously scummy. Even if we were actually scum, ending the day super fast is the exact last thing to do.

~D

[Almost50]

@Farside/Almost, I do hope you stick around. I'm sorry that I wasn't clearer or that we didn't have effective communication yesterday. If you could give me feedback on how to get reasons from you to see where things went wrong, that'd be great. Same with you Almost. I respect you both and think you both are town.

I .. have no excuse for being a fool. 4th time Scum!SC tricks me. That said, I now have no clear reads AT ALL. Most of my reads were centered around the idea Cakez was TOWN. Of course, those who kept pushing him despite resistance are now as good as confirmed town to me, but I'm talking about others (i.e. the Majority of players).

I think I'll just shut up and just sheep you and Mastina. Just tell me where to vote and I'll do it.

[mastin2]

@Mastina, Do you believe that there's other hidden protectives?

It's possible.
I'm frankly expecting about 2-3 sources of confirmed town (I'm one of them, via my ability), about 4 investigations, and about an equal number of protectives, with the rest of the abilities in this game filling up the gaps to make no player vanilla be various miscellaneous effects that either augment, interfere, or have no interaction whatsoever with the abilities above.

And, I'm expecting these (with the exception of the confirmed town) to be spread across in an absolutely random pattern between town and scum.
Well, I say "absolutely random", but what I more mean by that is "not easily setup specced into town/scum clearly by role alone". There's certain things I expect from town (for instance, what I know of Skybird makes me think her role is something town is more likely to have). There's certain things I expect from scum. (SirCakez was a great example of that; that was a role which by itself you wouldn't be able to guess was scum but which I thought scum would be more likely to have.) There's certain things I expect both to have, and there's certain things I hold no expectations for at all.

So given those factors: it wouldn't surprise me to see more protectives in the game, nor would it surprise me to learn we have none other than the claimed; we're in the right zone for both.

This is helped by my psychological profiling skills not applying to just players; I like to think that my hundreds of games of experience have given me a fair idea of how moderators think about their games, and I've been in/spectated enough V games to have a decent idea of how he goes about creating things. (Notably, he was an inspiration to me in my design of Gistou; I made that game partially trying to imitate his way of doing things.)

I may not get things perfect, but again, I like to think I do have a decent idea of what is, and isn't going on in the game.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Farside, Please don't end the day if you can.

I want to hear from DGB why we have no alliance. I need to get in sync with Beeboy. I also need to do the reread I promised Shiro.

[mastin2]

Because scum distance from other scum who are about to die.

Gee, I wonder what I've been calling your posts in regards to SirCakez?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Farside/Almost, I do hope you stick around. I'm sorry that I wasn't clearer or that we didn't have effective communication yesterday. If you could give me feedback on how to get reasons from you to see where things went wrong, that'd be great. Same with you Almost. I respect you both and think you both are town.

I .. have no excuse for being a fool. 4th time Scum!SC tricks me. That said, I now have no clear reads AT ALL. Most of my reads were centered around the idea Cakez was TOWN. Of course, those who kept pushing him despite resistance are now as good as confirmed town to me, but I'm talking about others (i.e. the Majority of players).

I think I'll just shut up and just sheep you and Mastina. Just tell me where to vote and I'll do it.

You see. This is the last thing I want. I want to be fought on my scumreads. I want to have them tested. That's how I verify them. Scum can easily hide in sheeping conftown.

Go out and find me scum. That's what I want. Even if we wind up disagreeing, I'm not going to automatically scumread you for it.

When my reads are untested, that removes a failure mechanicsm, particularly if there's some fact I don't know.

[farside22]

@all

- We're literally a few hours into the day phase and Farside is claiming to be unilaterally deciding to end the day. This coming right as I point out what might be a slip by her, and she's in a gigantic hurry to get us dead and the day over, despite a pretty huge elephant in the room that needs to be discussed.

Her push to try and get us dead and the day over is ridiculously over the top scummy. We give out an investigate in a game where there are not likely to be many others (if any). That is something that will be voted on and there's two obvious conftowns so if we live, that hurts scum. Furthermore, there's a scum event that got triggered. Go look at the start of day post and think. What would happen if the day suddenly ends super fast and alliances aren't worked out and no discussion goes on about how to try and blunt the scum event that was announced?

Only scum want this day to end fast.

~D

Well I plan on vig shooting you by that time, but it ends the day.
So you can try to explain why I didn't do that day 1 are you die at noon and I don't care.

And after day 1 shit Strom I think most players might be happy for a short day.

[Reasonably Rational]

Of course, RR is acting exactly like I did in SU...

Stop it. I didn't spend my small amount of time sitting up while dealing with a decubitus ulcer investing in getting your help for you to veer off into paranoia mode.

Look at what's happening right now. Help us put the freaking brakes on. Even if we had a cop guilty, we wouldn't want to end THIS day fast, let alone in just a few hours. It's scummy as fuck that this push to get the day ended so fast is happening, and if you posit us as town, it's even more scummy since I outed the fact that our event rewards an investigate and so scum can kill 2 birds with one stone if they can rush our lynch through.

Please re-read the opening day post event info and then help us slow this madness down. The scum team is going to get a huge advantage if they can get this day rushed. We have two nights to counteract their event and ask yourself if you want to trust everyone to decide what to do or if it should be discussed and a plan put into place. Personally, I'd like to have a plan in place both to try and counteract the event and also because a plan in place and agreed to has the secondary benefit of restricting what scum can get away with doing.

This mad rush to end the day a few hours in has scum written all over it.

~D

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

If you wind up agreeing with me, then of course sheep. But I don't want to just be ok, Titus said X player is scum Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Doubly so when ill.

[farside22]

@Farside/Almost, I do hope you stick around. I'm sorry that I wasn't clearer or that we didn't have effective communication yesterday. If you could give me feedback on how to get reasons from you to see where things went wrong, that'd be great. Same with you Almost. I respect you both and think you both are town.

I .. have no excuse for being a fool. 4th time Scum!SC tricks me. That said, I now have no clear reads AT ALL. Most of my reads were centered around the idea Cakez was TOWN. Of course, those who kept pushing him despite resistance are now as good as confirmed town to me, but I'm talking about others (i.e. the Majority of players).

I think I'll just shut up and just sheep you and Mastina. Just tell me where to vote and I'll do it.

You see. This is the last thing I want. I want to be fought on my scumreads. I want to have them tested. That's how I verify them. Scum can easily hide in sheeping conftown.

Go out and find me scum. That's what I want. Even if we wind up disagreeing, I'm not going to automatically scumread you for it.

When my reads are untested, that removes a failure mechanicsm, particularly if there's some fact I don't know.

I still think Shiro and snarky are scum.
Cooldog and RR.

That's pretty much were I'm at.

[Reasonably Rational]

Because scum distance from other scum who are about to die.

Gee, I wonder what I've been calling your posts in regards to SirCakez?

SC doesn't get lynched yesterday without our posting against him and our vote making things seem inevitable. I mean, this is arguable, but there is a HUGE difference between distancing when someone is at l-1, and casing and voting someone at a time where doing so makes them the only viable lynch.

-Cerb

[farside22]

@Farside, Please don't end the day if you can.

I want to hear from DGB why we have no alliance. I need to get in sync with Beeboy. I also need to do the reread I promised Shiro.

Fine.
I'll be nice because I was an ass day 1.
How much time you want?

[grapes]

Let's not end the day yet obviously.

[Reasonably Rational]

Because scum distance from other scum who are about to die.

Gee, I wonder what I've been calling your posts in regards to SirCakez?

So your theory is that we first put in a bunch of effort to make a case and convince people to lynch SC, but then we wanted to distance from that? What the hell?

@all

- We're literally a few hours into the day phase and Farside is claiming to be unilaterally deciding to end the day. This coming right as I point out what might be a slip by her, and she's in a gigantic hurry to get us dead and the day over, despite a pretty huge elephant in the room that needs to be discussed.

Her push to try and get us dead and the day over is ridiculously over the top scummy. We give out an investigate in a game where there are not likely to be many others (if any). That is something that will be voted on and there's two obvious conftowns so if we live, that hurts scum. Furthermore, there's a scum event that got triggered. Go look at the start of day post and think. What would happen if the day suddenly ends super fast and alliances aren't worked out and no discussion goes on about how to try and blunt the scum event that was announced?

Only scum want this day to end fast.

~D

Well I plan on vig shooting you by that time, but it ends the day.
So you can try to explain why I didn't do that day 1 are you die at noon and I don't care.

And after day 1 shit Strom I think most players might be happy for a short day.

You basically just scum claimed.


~D

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Farside, Please don't end the day if you can.

I want to hear from DGB why we have no alliance. I need to get in sync with Beeboy. I also need to do the reread I promised Shiro.

Fine.
I'll be nice because I was an ass day 1.
How much time you want?

At least enough time to do the things I highlighted above.