Mini Normal 1829 - Game Over

[JarJarDrinks]

So yeah, I'm pretty sure I still wanna lynch shadow, even w/ the claim.

But I wanna make sure people are onboard w/ that before I derail the blitz wagon.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Only thing that makes me feel conflicted about the case vs. Shadow is that Elyse is literally the TOWNIEST option for a town!Vanilla cop to pick. Scum would rather investigate someone to learn something new about them, while the best use for a town vanilla cop is to confirm what's already known. So, there is 0 scum motivation to investigating Elyse. I'm not objecting to the belief it's a suboptimal investigation (Gerry imo would have been the best choice, especially bc Shadow was scumreading Gerry for softing Vig), but it's the last choice Mafia would make.

It being the towniest choice, however, doesn't mean it's true. But what compels scum!Shadow to lie about his target if it risks his credibility? We lost our tracker, and Tracker+Watcher is a very unlikely combination of PRs for town, so for now I'm going to believe his claim and target because lying to hurt your credibility doesn't seem logical. I still think that Tracker/VCop/Ascetic is lacking investigative power and something seems strange about the set-up, even if we have two investigative roles.

Let's not get caught up in the idea that sub-optimal play or being unable to keep facts straight makes someone confirmed scum and save Shadow for later. That's my 2 cents at the moment.

The Slayer's Gambit thing and the difference in Shadow's approach this game isn't making me feel super good about giving him a townread, so I'd rather look into, say, Kar-Keys or Blitz for today.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

btw shadow you never answered my questions

what DID you learn from trying out slayer's gambit? can you cite quotes where you tried to act scummier and explain why?

Also, what have you learned fron your D1 pressure on Gerry bc I didn't really see much pressure.

[kraska77]

Jar don't you feel you're doing your Maria tunnel all over again
Things are not so clear cut. inconsistency is not necessarily a scum tell. Scumtells are usually more covert than that. You can go on with this dumb wagon and see shadows town flip. Or we can lynch obvious scum Titus and sort people like karnos and gerry instead because this is more pressing

[gigabyteTroubadour]

^^ that p much

[JarJarDrinks]

Only thing that makes me feel conflicted about the case vs. Shadow is that Elyse is literally the TOWNIEST option for a town!Vanilla cop to pick. Scum would rather investigate someone to learn something new about them, while the best use for a town vanilla cop is to confirm what's already known. So, there is 0 scum motivation to investigating Elyse. I'm not objecting to the belief it's a suboptimal investigation (Gerry imo would have been the best choice, especially bc Shadow was scumreading Gerry for softing Vig), but it's the last choice Mafia would make.

It being the towniest choice, however, doesn't mean it's true. But what compels scum!Shadow to lie about his target if it risks his credibility? We lost our tracker, and Tracker+Watcher is a very unlikely combination of PRs for town, so for now I'm going to believe his claim and target because lying to hurt your credibility doesn't seem logical. I still think that Tracker/VCop/Ascetic is lacking investigative power and something seems strange about the set-up, even if we have two investigative roles.

Let's not get caught up in the idea that sub-optimal play or being unable to keep facts straight makes someone confirmed scum and save Shadow for later. That's my 2 cents at the moment.

The Slayer's Gambit thing and the difference in Shadow's approach this game isn't making me feel super good about giving him a townread, so I'd rather look into, say, Kar-Keys or Blitz for today.

Confused on why you think that if Shadow is scum, he actually investigated Elyse. Why wouldn't he just lie?

[JarJarDrinks]

I didn't tunnel Maria. And I'm not tunneling Shadow either

[JarJarDrinks]

which leaves shadow/karnos/blitz as the scumteam

All people I'm willing to lynch today.

[Shadow_step]

what have you learned fron your D1 pressure on Gerry bc I didn't really see much pressure.

His wagon never took off early on when I voted him, and when it did he just laughed it off(like he knew most of them were pressure votes) and the wagon derailed on him and I couldn't learn much.
Today he hasn't done anything either and from this post we can see that he isn't reading the thread either.

hi shadow can you answer me? Why didn't you check me. I was your biggest scumread, and Maria said you should lynch me after she was lynched. Why was I not checked??

Do you have any townreads Gerry?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Confused on why you think that if Shadow is scum, he actually investigated Elyse. Why wouldn't he just lie?

It doesn't make sense to lie if it makes you look worse because your actions don't match your thought process.

Jarjar, what about Gerry?

[JarJarDrinks]

Jarjar, what about Gerry?

Thoughts are still the same:

Spoiler:

gerry

- townlean. I think the fake vig "claim" reads town to me. Scum don't like calling attention to themselves. Wish he'd give us more content but I don't see anything to scumread him for

And regardless, there's no chance I'm lynching Gerry while shadow is still such a strong scumread.

[Elyse]

Sorry I've had a super busy week and didn't even get to read the end of yesterday. Catching up soon.

[Blitzkrieg]

Oh look, another half-hearted Giga wagon counter push to attempt to rolefish.

[Blitzkrieg]

I think giga is scum. I think transcend did a gambit and tried to buddy maria the town. giga has also seemingly been ok with voting pretty much anyone so far.

VOTE: giga

This.

Giga will vote anyone and practically every slot has been counterwagoned against Giga. Might as well be a neon sign scum aren't bussing and Giga is scum.

[kraska77]

Nice try
This is giga's way of poking people
And scum try to opportunistically push wagons on her every game she's in for this reason
Your read on karnos and gerry pls?

[Elyse]

I'm good with a Shadow or Blitz lynch.

Blitz has done nothing townie at all. It's just a scumslot, there's nothing else to it.

Shadow saying that he was playing lynchbaity so he could get results seems like BS to me because he's a vanilla cop. Like maybe I could see that if he was an actual good role, but vanilla cop sucks. It doesn't add up. The check on me is also very convenient because if he's scum, he knows I'm telling the truth and doesn't have to worry about calling a PR vanilla.

[Shadow_step]

I'm good with a Shadow or Blitz lynch.

Blitz has done nothing townie at all. It's just a scumslot, there's nothing else to it.

Shadow saying that he was playing lynchbaity so he could get results seems like BS to me because he's a vanilla cop. Like maybe I could see that if he was an actual good role, but vanilla cop sucks. It doesn't add up. The check on me is also very convenient because if he's scum, he knows I'm telling the truth and doesn't have to worry about calling a PR vanilla.

Why would I lie about investigating you with investigative roles a possibility ?

[Elyse]

Well the tracker is dead

And you were under pressure to claim

[Shadow_step]

Ever heard of watcher or follower etc?

[JarJarDrinks]

What would you have claimed if ur scum?

[JarJarDrinks]

Like what a ridiculous argument. W/ no tracker in the game, ur gonna try to tell us that as scum, you would never lie about who you targeted?

[chilledtea]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT 2.05

Blitzkrieg (L-2) : kraska77, JarJarDrinks, gigabyteTroubadour, Nero Cain.

gigabyteTroubadour (L-4) : Blitzkrieg, gerryoat.

JarJarDrinks (L-5) : Shadow_step.

karnos (L-5) : Thor665.

Nero Cain (L-5) : karnos.

Not Voting (2) : Elyse, MichelSableheart.

Day will end in (expired on 2016-09-23 00:00:00)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Might as well be a neon sign scum aren't bussing and Giga is scum.

The IaI kill makes zero sense if this is the argument you want to push against me. IaI was probably the most important person who pushed AGAINST the Maria/Me scumreads. If either me or Maria were scum, he'd have to be kept alive to make sure my lynch can't go through. But BOTH of the people who died were pushing against my lynch.. If my ""partners"" refuse to bus me, then why aren't the people pushing me/who pushed me D1 dying?

The Shadow push is well intentioned but it's a better discussion for a later time because I still think his choice of action makes sense, and having a town ascetic to me implies that there are multiple investigative roles that may work against each other... (Vanilla cop gets guilties on trackers, right...?)

[Shadow_step]

Why the hell would I claim a vanilla cop then? Why not claim a cop and say that I have a town result on whoever the fuck I want because I would know everyone's alignment.

[Shadow_step]

Response to JJD ^