Mini #516: Canyon City - Abandoned

[somestrangeflea]

I have absolutely no idea what to talk about, so...

Someone ask me something, and I'll try to get back in this game!

[DragonsofSummer]

Well, DoS, what would you have me do? Lie? I see Phate as scummy. Just because it is for the same reasons as everyone else does not in and of itself make my suspicions scummy. Besides, why are you not attacking Yagami for doing the same thing you accuse me of? I do not wish Phate to be lynched over the accusations thus far, he is just the scummiest at this moment for me. Why do I keep explaining this and nobody listens?

Also, I find Phate flipflopping a lot. Kind of like Kerry. He is thinking it's "fairly likely you(spambot) are scum.) And he votes. His very next post, instead of waiting for the "splaining" he wants from Spambot, he attacks me, the very target of Spambot, whose argument, phate says himself, is unwarranted. And he bases his attack on, get this, the same argument that he found so unwarranted a few posts ago. What did DoS say that Spambot hadn't? Was his word choice so different from spambot that, despite the fact that they are saying the same things, you find his attack warranted and spambot's unwarranted? So, you finally deserve my vote.

Unvote, vote:phate

No I don't want you to lie. I want you to give reasons why you think the same things everyone else does instead of just regurgitating information that has already been said. I am not attacking Yagami for this reason. He is saying he agrees in the posts you are talking about and then adds why he agrees.

Phate is flipfloping no more than a few other players in this game first off. I like the second paragraph in this post though. It provides some good analysis of its own and leaves something to think about if either phate or spam come up scum later.

[DragonsofSummer]

Mod could we get a VC?

[Phate]

SomeStrangeFlea!!! How dare you post and try to get us to contribute without doing so yourself??? How can you criticise other people when you're not helping yourself?!? You're just trying to make yourself appear helpful, aren't you!?! OMFGSSFSCUM.

If you had read my post, Kabenon, you'd know my "flip-flop" was actually based on a reread with DoS' analysis in mind, which I stated in my in my post. As opposed to you who have held the same view and stuck to your guns regardless of annoying things like evidence. Kind of like Bush.

I think Spambot is scummy because he vigorously went after me, and then made a very fast, very sharp change of direction with minimal evidence. I think you're scummy because you've been headed in the very same direction for a long time with minimal evidence. I think at least one of you are scum. Perhaps kab/span/yag, I could see that.

And here I am at L-2, where you said that scum could easily slide onto the wagon... but I don't think they will, 'cuz I think some of them are already there. For the record, however, I'm a town powerrole - just thought you should know.

Mod: Can the Mafia target NPCs for a night kill?

[somestrangeflea]

SomeStrangeFlea!!! How dare you post and try to get us to contribute without doing so yourself??? How can you criticise other people when you're not helping yourself?!? You're just trying to make yourself appear helpful, aren't you!?! OMFGSSFSCUM.

Not once did I criticize the other players!

BWAHAHAHAHAH!

Wait, what?

Also...

For the record, however, I'm a town powerrole - just thought you should know.

To be fair, claiming "Town Powerrole" is only just less self harming than actually claiming what it is...

I think.

[Phate]

*shrugs* I'm new to being a powerrole. Didn't want to wait to get to L-1 and be scumhammered. If I get to L-1, I'll mention what it is.

[kabenon007]

I just completed a reread. There is a lot of interaction between Spambot and Phate, I will address this later.
My reasoning for voting phate at this moment is mainly because of his odd switch from spambot to me. It seems very opportunistic, after spambot votes for me, then DoS confirms his vote, and THEN phate swoops in and switches from his "likely scum" in spambot to me. One thing that stood out to me was an exchange between Shanba and Phate.

Both of these are examples of scum making jokes - in the first, I jokeclaimed scum d1. In the second, EmpTyger jokeclaims scum halfway through day 1 - he ended getting lynched for it (and also got his title). Now, it's not an exactly comparable situation, as he didn't fakeclaim scum. However, it's enough of a scumtell for me to base my d1 vote on. Also, I dislike the way he asks us to move forward without actually doing anything about it in the post I said I disliked.

Those are scum jokeclaiming, not making jokes. Large difference there. I think I'll go look at the first three pages of three random games and tally the joking scum to joking town ratio.

And then this post:

When I see an Italian guy with a fedora and trenchcoat, I'll point him out. [In unrelated news, I am Italian and wear a fedora and a black leather jacket]

It seems that Phate is jokeclaiming here, not just making jokes. Just something I noticed, which I consider to be a scumtell. I joke as scum all the time, trying to get people to think, well, I like this guy, I’m going to keep him around for awhile. Not that only, but you get the idea. However, as I said, I did not think that my suspicions based on his use of humor were enough for a lynch. However, recent events, like Phate and Spambot’s posting back and forth, and then Phate’s switching to me, I believe are worthy of my vote.
Now, Phate and Spambot…
I did not notice this post before, but it came after the phate and spambot debate. Spambot made a large post against phate, post 78. For some reason, Phate asks him this question:

Spambot, has your opinion changed? If so, do any accusations jumped out at you as being unwarranted? If not, please respond to 80. Also, what leads you to think groinhammer is scum?

What? Where did you get the idea that his opinion was changing? His last post made no reference to a possible opinion change. And then, lo and behold, a few posts later, Spambot switches from attacking phate to attacking me. I could possibly see this as scum buddy communication, a slip up on phate’s part. There, DoS, I have added my own opinions of the situation at hand. I hope it helps, either if the wagon on me continues, and I end up dead, or if this can dissuade some of the people on my wagon. Not likely, seeing as how I am attacking most of the people on my wagon. Perhaps dissuade others from joining said wagon.
I don’t know what to make of Phate’s claim. It seems a bit premature, it didn’t seem like anyone was likely to put him at -1 and then hammer right away, after all, according to spambot, a ninja lynch is very unlikely, and would only help the town.

[Phate]

*grins*

You're ridiculous, kabenon.

I'm going to respond to this, but first I'd like to ask the rest of the town: is this last post by Kabenon as far-fetched-sounding to you guys as it is to me?

[kabenon007]

Why do you need to know what the rest of the town thinks? Will that influence how you respond? Cuz it shouldn't. Your opinions are your own. And forgive me for saying this, but you've been saying that every one of my posts is ridiculous, so...

[Phate]

No, actually, I ask because if you're scum (and I think you very well may be), any defense to you is meaningless. Any defense is merely to the rest of the town. So unless the rest of the town actually thinks there's a valid argument somewhere in there, I don't see any reason to bother with responding.

But, because I'm bored and have no life, I'm working on a response.

[Phate]

My reasoning for voting phate at this moment is mainly because of his odd switch from spambot to me. It seems very opportunistic, after spambot votes for me, then DoS confirms his vote, and THEN phate swoops in and switches from his "likely scum" in spambot to me.

I've explained this. I think both of you are scummy, Spambot for strongly pushing my case with minimal evidence and then rapidly switching to pushing your case with minimal evidence, and you for sticking to my case with minimal evidence and laughable posts. In lieu of anyone else, I would support either of your lynches D1 (although I doubt I'll make it through the night, now that I've claimed).

I have never in my life jokeclaimed. I am actually, in meatspace, Italian, and I wear a fedora (but not a trenchcoat). I thought this was amusing in the context of playing Mafia, so I mentioned it. At any rate, joking is a playstyle choice for me and I don't plan to quit anytime soon.

What? Where did you get the idea that his opinion was changing? His last post made no reference to a possible opinion change. And then, lo and behold, a few posts later, Spambot switches from attacking phate to attacking me. I could possibly see this as scum buddy communication, a slip up on phate’s part.

Ooh, that's good. I have to applaud you for this one, Kabenon, I think that's the best argument you've come up with so far this game. Not only did I miss that interaction, I missed that argument in your post on the first reading of it.

I asked if his opinion had changed because he'd been silent for awhile and I'd thoroughly responded to his arguments... and therein lies the rub. He was on me. If I was his scumbuddy dropping a covert hint to change wagons, that'd be one thing, but if he was distancing from me, I wouldn't have to tell him.

Kabenon, you have, what, two votes on you? I'd hardly call that a wagon, and IMO it's too early to worry about what the town should do if you end up dead. Someone's feeling fatalistic today.

It is possible that I claimed too early. Again, new to being a powerrole.

[kabenon007]

Why does it matter whether or not the town thinks there is a valid argument? If a person is town, it is their duty to point out every piece of evidence they can muster. Because what if there is crucial information you hold out and then the next day you are NKed? I think you are just trying to keep from getting forced into saying something that is far-fetched yourself.

[Phate]

Perhaps I should repeat myself slower.

If you're scum and accusing me, then you already know I'm town. If you're scum and accusing me, responding to your accusations is meaningless. If you're scum and accusing me and I respond, it's only to satisfy the rest of the town town, because they're the only ones who don't know whether I'm scum or town.

[kabenon007]

So unless the rest of the town actually thinks there's a valid argument somewhere in there, I don't see any reason to bother with responding.

I repeat it once, cuz it won't matter how many times I repeat it, you will still ignore it. This is what I was referring to. I know that responding to accusations of scum is meaningless, but you said that you wouldn't post a response until you made sure the town would be behind it. Repeating yourself only condemns yourself more times.

Here, for you, slower...
If you're town, you should give the town as much information of your own as possible. If you're town, you shouldn't need the opinion of the town before you post. If you are town, post and then ask if people agree, that way you can say that the opinion is your own and not just going along with the majority. If you're town... it doesn't matter... cuz you're not.

[tyhess]

Mod: Could I please get a replacement? I don't feel like I'm putting a decent effort into this game.....

[Phate]

you said that you wouldn't post a response until you made sure the town would be behind it.

That isn't AT ALL what I said. I said and maintain that I think you're scum, so any defense to you is meaningless except for the benefit of the town. So if the rest of the town recognises how baseless an attack is, responding is unnecessary.

Here, for you, slower... If you're town, you should give the town as much information of your own as possible... If you are town, post and then ask if people agree, that way you can say that the opinion is your own and not just going along with the majority. If you're town... it doesn't matter... cuz you're not.

Unless you or someone else can point out something in here worth responding to, I'm going to yawn my way through this, because I don't really see much in here that's relevant to this discussion other than "you're scum."

If you're town, you shouldn't need the opinion of the town before you post.

Let me clarify this for you with this handy-dandy quote.

If you're scum and accusing me, then you already know I'm town. If you're scum and accusing me, responding to your accusations is meaningless. If you're scum and accusing me and I respond, it's only to satisfy the rest of the town town, because they're the only ones who don't know whether I'm scum or town.

[kabenon007]

If the town doesn't think an attack is baseless, they are behind it. If they think it is baseless, they are not behind it. So if the town thinks an attack is baseless, and are therefore not behind it, you would not post a response. That is what you said. A response, baseless or not, would give information, which is something any townie would want. Are you afraid of giving out information?

[Primate]

Votecount

Kabenon - (D.O.S, CTD, Spambot, Phate) - 4
Groinhammer - (Tyhess, Shanba) - 2
Phate - (Yagami, Kabenon) - 3

Not Voting: Theo, Zakarum + all NPCs

7 to lynch.

Mod: Can the Mafia target NPCs for a night kill?

NPCs can be targetted with any action that doesn't specifically disallow it.

Deadline is the 14th of November, 12pm GMT, so about one and half days away. I'm prodding everyone in the game. If replacements are needed (which at least one is, probably two), I'll extend the night until everyone is back in the game.

[Phate]

Defending oneself from an attack by scum, especially one as weak as this one, does not give the town any information (unless they believe the attack to have merit). It merely clouds the issue.

[kabenon007]

Whatever. Think what you will. Neither of us is going to give in on this one. So it's up to the town on this one. I refuse to continue to argue the point that can be made by previous posts. It merely clouds the issue to keep bringing it up.

[Phate]

Polly want a cracker?

[kabenon007]

It'd be nice, yeah...

[Phate]

Ok, people. I have claimed a town powerrole. The deadline is less than 36 hours away. Kabenon is scum, so that explains that, but Shanba and Yagami, why are you still voting me?

[kabenon007]

alright... so I have four votes on me... with 36 hours until deadline. If no one removes their vote from me, I will have to claim. Which is something that nobody wants. However, if no removes their votes and the majority doesn't shift, I will claim. I will wait until about tonight before I will claim.

[kabenon007]

EBWOP: I will wait until tonight before I claim, if necessary... my bad.