STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Almost50]

OK, RR moves up to "as good as confirmed Town" (I won't be explaining why). Skybird also moves up to the same level, but this one I can explain if you want to rant about nothings for the rest of the day.

In fact, it's bc allying with Steven Universe got mod-confirmed in public. If Sky was scum I very much doubt she would've been allowed to ally with SU in the first place, let alone be told it IS SU they've allied with.

I'd also suggest the lack of such a mechanic similar to the monocular in Bloodborne (a PT spying ability/tool) for the same reason. If scum ever got THAT it'd be fairly easy for them to target Sky with it and see whom she's allied with -other than Foxbird- and thus identify SU.

Feel free to attack, criticize and ridicule this line of thought. This is my logic and these are my reads none-the-less.

[Firebringer]

dont make me daygun you fire

ill give you one if you promise to do it.

[Killthestory]

okay

[Firebringer]

Well I need us to raise stress first.
Also ally me.

[Reasonably Rational]

I think its strikingly weird you agree with the case on Cakez, when its made by Mastin who you already say you disagree with.

What makes them right about Cakez but wrong about you? You just say she is wrong about it. You don't contemplate a real thing that most town players do when a person reads them wrong. That the chance is that other of their reads are likely also wrong.

Mastin didn't make a case on sircakez. She said he's doing a vague thing, which she also accused our slot of doing(which we know to be an inaccurate portrayal of our play). I went through his iso and actually identified MULTIPLE suspicious things he was doing beyond her vague handwavey suspicions.

Also, how exactly are you privy to our private thoughts? Perhaps you don't know this, but the chance that she's wrong is the EXACT reason why I do the footwork myself to check whether or not someone's suspicions are justified instead of just sheeping people.

-Cerb

Pedit: we used that same flawed logic to lose SU 1(plus some other stuff, but that was what ultimately drove the lylo mislynch), except we had EVEN MORE REASON to think scum wouldn't possibly be given confirmation of Stevens identify than you do, and we were STILL wrong.

Don't be us. Don't close your mind to the possibility. Evaluate Skybirds play on its own merit.

[Not Chara]

OK, RR moves up to "as good as confirmed Town" (I won't be explaining why). Skybird also moves up to the same level, but this one I can explain if you want to rant about nothings for the rest of the day.

In fact, it's bc allying with Steven Universe got mod-confirmed in public. If Sky was scum I very much doubt she would've been allowed to ally with SU in the first place, let alone be told it IS SU they've allied with.

I'd also suggest the lack of such a mechanic similar to the monocular in Bloodborne (a PT spying ability/tool) for the same reason. If scum ever got THAT it'd be fairly easy for them to target Sky with it and see whom she's allied with -other than Foxbird- and thus identify SU.

Feel free to attack, criticize and ridicule this line of thought. This is my logic and these are my reads none-the-less.

i think Cerb and Drixx would have a lot to say about that, Almost. i finished reading the first SU.

pedit: oh. he was faster than me.

[Reasonably Rational]

AND I said a lot more.

From my phone.

-Cerb

[Firebringer]

Mastin didn't make a case on sircakez. She said he's doing a vague thing, which she also accused our slot of doing(which we know to be an inaccurate portrayal of our play). I went through his iso and actually identified MULTIPLE suspicious things he was doing beyond her vague handwavey suspicions.

I am pretty sure that isn't true.

[Firebringer]

Posts like these make me think SC is TOWN. I don't care if his reads are accurate or not. It's the fact that he has a DYNAMIC read list that is moving rapidly with every update. To me; scum (and scum!SC to be precise) have an almost static read list and try to move 2-3 names at most just to make it look like they're doing something.

Yeah, bullshit.

SirCakez's reads are changing, yes, but they've changed to fit the pushes of other players. His reads are being tailored to fit the reads of most players: there's no "stick-out" reads. There's no reads that are stubborn defiance of all logic. All of his reads are convenient. All of his reads are easy. Now, that in of itself wouldn't make him scum! Some players just get beaten to the punch, and would have given those reads regardless. But that's just the thing:

SirCakez

isn't

pushing.
There's no aggression from him.
There's no real attempt to do anything beyond surface-level "scumhunting", to look good.
He is putting in just enough to put on a show. And nothing more. No hard, firm defenses, no hard, firm attacks, this in spite of him

agreeing with me

on RR about that, when he is guilty of it himself just as much if not MORE than RR. He's not bringing up his own reasons. He's just reflecting those of others. He's not adding. He's just restating.

No attempt to solve the game.
No attempt to unify the town.
No attempt to take control of the game.

He's content to sit in the background and let the town just go at it, largely as we have been, because we keep on arguing with each other and getting distracted by the shiny while also lacing venom into our words about one another.
If he were actually town, he'd be doing the same thing I am: planting his foot down and trying to get it to stop.

This was handwavey?

[Firebringer]

Also, how exactly are you privy to our private thoughts? Perhaps you don't know this, but the chance that she's wrong is the EXACT reason why I do the footwork myself to check whether or not someone's suspicions are justified instead of just sheeping people.

Thats the impression I get from your posts.

I don't know everything your thinking, I can only base what I know from what you say and interpret from there.

[Reasonably Rational]

Yes.

Absolutely.

Do you see her linking to specific examples? Anything less than that is handwavey to me. I am quite rigorous in my standards for cases FB.

She merely describes her interpretation of the way he's approaching the game. It's meaningless mastin fluff, as far as actually JUSTIFYING something is concerned.

It only works on those already suspicious of the slot by putting words to their thoughts, but it does nothing to CONVINCE other people.

Cases need to convince people.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

This is a waste of time though. Drixx already predicted that nobody would care that I spent like an hour or two of my life going through SC'S crap, and here you are living up to those expectations.

-Cerb

[Firebringer]

I thought you guys scumread me?
Why do you care what I think of your SC case?

[Firebringer]

Furthermore, just ISO Firebringer for yourself ... I rest my case. Something's WAY off on that slot, and it hasn't gotten any better (apart from him dropping the nasty attacks, but I credit that to Varsoon's intervention).

Like this and your previous post doesn't add up to me.
Do you think I am town or scum?

[Firebringer]

Wait that was Drixx.
Meh

[Reasonably Rational]

I thought you guys scumread me?
Why do you care what I think of your SC case?

I never scumread you? Drixx pushed you because you were and are acting weird, just like beeboy is. I not especially suspicious of beeboy, and I'm also not especially suspicious of you. You're both worth watching BECAUSE of the abnormalities in your play style, but it's not something that means you're scum.

And, honestly, this head isn't even convinced SC is scum either (because of his response, mainly), but regardless of that, it's EXTREMELY irritating to put hours of my time into this game and have people be too stupid to understand my contributions.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Firebringer ... stop it. Mastin hasn't made an actual case against anyone. She declared that 4 people were scum and then has been a sarcastic prat for the rest of the day. Of course we disagree with her about her "read" on us, especially since she

lied to the game

to try and justify it. If you have a good reason to think someone is scum, you don't have to resort to LYING,

especially

if you happen to be part of an outed two way mod-confirmed mason claim and therefore are viewed as conftown. When you're in that position, you should be leading the town. Want to see an example? Check out the original SU game. We were Steven and Mastin's terrible day one declaration that she would be conftown on day 3 caused us to have to out ourselves to rescue her from the rope, after which point she disagreed on our scum reads as we proceeded to send scum to the rope one after another, until it got down to the final day and she just said nothing and didn't help at all.

That shit is there for you go to go look at. Mastin is a

considerably

better player than she has demonstrated so far this game (SU was an abnormaly low spot for her; in general, she's very strong). I'm more disappointed in her play than anything else, frankly.

You want to know why SirCakez is going to eat rope? Click our ISO and read Cerb's complete evisceration of his ISO and look at SC's responses. A couple of SCs posts since Cerb put up his case are among the worst posts I've ever seen in forum mafia. I would eat my underwear if SC flips town at this point. But it's not because of Mastin, and it's not because of me even. I told Cerb not to waste his time, but he saw something and did the work, and now there's an actual case and, more damningly, SC's responses. Cerb gets credit for everything but the vote and the only reason he doesn't get credit for that is because he has an absurdly high bar for voting. He uses the vote less than I do, which is saying something.

I don't know what to make you Fire. Your early play pinged me and I pushed but you didn't give any overt scum signals in our back and forth. You did regress a little bit back towards your usual troll nature, but apart from that ... something's off about you this game. Get your head in the game man. Right now you're just a distraction and that's not helpful in the least.

~Drixx

P-Edit: First, just LOL at Cerb and I crossposting. Second:

Posts like these make me think SC is TOWN. I don't care if his reads are accurate or not. It's the fact that he has a DYNAMIC read list that is moving rapidly with every update. To me; scum (and scum!SC to be precise) have an almost static read list and try to move 2-3 names at most just to make it look like they're doing something.

Yeah, bullshit.

SirCakez's reads are changing, yes, but they've changed to fit the pushes of other players. His reads are being tailored to fit the reads of most players: there's no "stick-out" reads. There's no reads that are stubborn defiance of all logic. All of his reads are convenient. All of his reads are easy. Now, that in of itself wouldn't make him scum! Some players just get beaten to the punch, and would have given those reads regardless. But that's just the thing:

SirCakez

isn't

pushing.
There's no aggression from him.
There's no real attempt to do anything beyond surface-level "scumhunting", to look good.
He is putting in just enough to put on a show. And nothing more. No hard, firm defenses, no hard, firm attacks, this in spite of him

agreeing with me

on RR about that, when he is guilty of it himself just as much if not MORE than RR. He's not bringing up his own reasons. He's just reflecting those of others. He's not adding. He's just restating.

No attempt to solve the game.
No attempt to unify the town.
No attempt to take control of the game.

He's content to sit in the background and let the town just go at it, largely as we have been, because we keep on arguing with each other and getting distracted by the shiny while also lacing venom into our words about one another.
If he were actually town, he'd be doing the same thing I am: planting his foot down and trying to get it to stop.

This was handwavey?

Yeah that's not really a case. That could be applied to at least half of the game right now. Even if it were a case, it came 43 posts after Cerb's complete evisceration of SC. That would mean that, if anything, Mastin came in with weaksauce to try and get credit after Cerb did the work.

And

that

, Firebringer, is why you should actually pay attention to the game. I'm not asking you to convert to our rationalist approach and put in the large amount of work. Cerb and I tag team it and we talk to each other so much during any given game that it generally comes out to something like 50,000 to 100,000 words, when you strip out timestamps and such. That's a LOT of effort. But at least put enough effort in to realize who actually made a real case, and who did it before whom.

Oh... and we

can

be wrong, despite the effort we put in. One needs only look at the original SU to see that pretty plainly. Of course... I'm pretty sure nobody blamed us for the decision we made. It's not like the player we decided to lynch had been at all helpful. In fact... his play, now that I think of it, seemed a lot like your play. Hrm...

~Drixx

P-edit: I apologize for Cerb calling people stupid. He's frustrated. He disagrees with me about SCs responses being caught scum responses. We try to keep our disagreements to ourselves (and whomever decides they want to read a novel consisting of us talking about a mafia game for months).

[Drixx]

I thought you guys scumread me?
Why do you care what I think of your SC case?

No. I said that you are behaving strangely. I also had a lengthy back and forth with you earlier in the game and you never gave any kind of scum signals and we talked a LOT. I don't know what's up with you, but something is off. Does that mean you're scum? No. Could you be? Yes.

What do I think right now? Put a gun to my head and even then I wouldn't be able to say with any certainty. Your ISO is full of trolling and things that are off but not sending out scum signals. There's one small concerning thing in your ISO, but it's nowhere near enough to assume you're scum.

So no, we're not scum reading you. We aren't town reading you either. You haven't done anything to move yourself one way or the other. For all we know, you're a SK or something, and that explains the strangeness.

~Drixx

[Killthestory]

ill vote with rr because it seems like a good idea

[Reasonably Rational]

I thought you guys scumread me?
Why do you care what I think of your SC case?

No. I said that you are behaving strangely. I also had a lengthy back and forth with you earlier in the game and you never gave any kind of scum signals and we talked a LOT. I don't know what's up with you, but something is off. Does that mean you're scum? No. Could you be? Yes.

What do I think right now? Put a gun to my head and even then I wouldn't be able to say with any certainty. Your ISO is full of trolling and things that are off but not sending out scum signals. There's one small concerning thing in your ISO, but it's nowhere near enough to assume you're scum.

So no, we're not scum reading you. We aren't town reading you either. You haven't done anything to move yourself one way or the other. For all we know, you're a SK or something, and that explains the strangeness.

~Drixx

*Sigh* - Picking up hydra slip.

~Drixx

[SirCakez]

P.S. I've seen SCUM!Cakez more than I've seen Town!him. *Nods firmly*

And, pray tell, how well did those games go for you by letting him live?

I did beat him the last TWO times he was scum (Soccer Spirits and Gistou).

You didn't "catch" me in either of those games tho

Got caught up. So this is silly and I have no idea what is wrong with you people. Cerberus I get because his bar for when he will vote for and push someone is calibrated way too high, especially on day one.

Cerberus basically deconstructed SirCakez and SC's resposne was to basically run up a white flag and surrender. This is as open and shut as it gets.

If by surrender, you mean completely wreck Cerb's attack on my ISO, then yeah I surrendered.

[Firebringer]

Cakez who would you have us FoS on your flip?
Obviously saying your town on flip.

[SirCakez]

Obi/McMenno/RR
This shoud be quite obvious

[DrippingGoofball]

If I am a lying, I a must be scum.
Vote me.

K

VOTE: Firebringer
But the game won't be the same without you

[Firebringer]

If I am a lying, I a must be scum.
Vote me.

K

VOTE: Firebringer
But the game won't be the same without you

The game would probably extremely improve without me.
The frequency of AtE would decrease sharply by 80%