Mini Normal 1829 - Game Over

[kraska77]

Thor so far:
"Lynch Maria for erratic play"
"Lunch elyse for opportunistic vote on Maria"
"I'd policy shadow"
"we're not lynching gerry because thats who Maria says is scum"
"I'd lynch kraska for being low activity"
"Both the Maria and gerry wagons excite me"

[Thor665]

Thor who are you reading as town?

Well, as I've said a couple of times;

Transcend/Giga
Nero
JarJar Drinks
Michael Sableheart

I haven't really said the following, but would also add;

IAI
maaaaaaaaaaybe Blitz.

Why?

thor, I don't think the situation where you may have replaced out makes any difference. Also he p much put the mod in the situation that unless he force replaced Trans he'd have to get replacements for you and him, so his hand was a bit forced I think. So yes, I think its something that he could do as scum.

Seems to have limited gain for him - wht about Kraska with his 'everyone get along' play? Why no comment on that as an alignment tell?

Thor so far:
"Lynch Maria for erratic play"
"Lunch elyse for opportunistic vote on Maria"
"I'd policy shadow"
"we're not lynching gerry because thats who Maria says is scum"
"I'd lynch kraska for being low activity"
"Both the Maria and gerry wagons excite me"

I would alter the not lynching Gerry one to "because there isn't a case on him" and the Kraska one to "for not taking a stance"
But otherwise, yeah, that's relatively accurate of opinions I've said.

Why post this (with, as usual, no actual opinion being expressed)?

[JarJarDrinks]

god, i hate day 1 in forum mafia. it's such a clusterfuck. And I can never get reads until one person is lynched. Someone mentor me in better day 1s as town and what to look for.

And Gerry is prob town fml

3 days ago said I was prob town.

Now let's go back and put this in a time frame. I went from prob town about 2 days ago. to null about a day ago. to all of a sudden her voting me with her main scumread right now (who she was just voting) does anyone see something wrong with this?

Agree

[kraska77]

Why is Michel a strong townread(on par with nero and jar) when you have pointed out lots of inconsistencies/bad logic in his arguments?
Feels like you're approaching two similar situations(Maria and michel) differently

[JarJarDrinks]

Scum me could of prob flipped to the giga wagon if I felt like it because giga was offering herself on a plate and that's prob the play I would of went for but now I feel content with your lynch

lolwut? How in the world can u EVER vote giga this game? That'd be a scumclaim.

[kraska77]

Also gerry and karnos have been equal levels of useless so I'm assuming you want gerry lynched now bc you think gerry vs Maria is scum theatre?

[kraska77]

Why post this (with, as usual, no actual opinion being expressed)?

You're decentralising pressure and calling for like 5 people to get wagoned
On the surface it looks like you're doing stuff but all your pushes have been weak

[I Am Innocent]

kraska is moving up my scum list pretty quickly

[I Am Innocent]

kraska what's ur read on shadow?

[Shadow_step]

IAI, why are you ignoring my questions?

[karnos]

Scum me could of prob flipped to the giga wagon if I felt like it because giga was offering herself on a plate and that's prob the play I would of went for but now I feel content with your lynch

lolwut? How in the world can u EVER vote giga this game? That'd be a scumclaim.

Whats this "giga is obv town" thing that you have going? Did you forget where she implied fake claiming mason, and lying about the claim is towny?

I also don't like the ascetic claim, never seen the role used before, seems like a convenient claim for a scum player to fall back on to create doubt.

[JarJarDrinks]

Whats this "giga is obv town" thing that you have going?

I have a "giga is obv town" thing going?

[Thor665]

Why is Michel a strong townread(on par with nero and jar) when you have pointed out lots of inconsistencies/bad logic in his arguments?
Feels like you're approaching two similar situations(Maria and michel) differently

I have described why I find Michael's claims to be more likely town bad, and why I find Maria's to be more likely scum bad a while ago in this post;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8317120

Would you like to debate my thoughts, or are you just empty attacking?

Also gerry and karnos have been equal levels of useless so I'm assuming you want gerry lynched now bc you think gerry vs Maria is scum theatre?

I am not actually advocating either a Karnos or a Gerry lynch - my vote remains on Maria.
I did express happiness with a Gerry wagon and the push there, which dismantled the Transcend/Giga wagon - a slot I'm townreading.
So that seems pretty logical from my perspective.
Why do you think I want Gerry lynched? You even noted awareness I had said the opposite.

Why post this (with, as usual, no actual opinion being expressed)?

You're decentralising pressure and calling for like 5 people to get wagoned
On the surface it looks like you're doing stuff but all your pushes have been weak

I have consistently been calling for only one person to be lynched, Maria, except for a brief period where I had desire for Elyse to be lynched.
Me noting scumreads is different than me pushing for a lynch.
Maria even went so far as to complain that I'm ego tunneling here - I am pretty sure that if she believes that, and you believe that I am pushing 5 peopel equally, then at least one of you is utterly wrong.

I mildly agree with her value call

[JarJarDrinks]

What I'm saying is:

MARIA has treated giga as confirmed scum this entire game. Then she says that if she was scum she would have voted giga a few pages ago.

I'm saying that MARIA would be scumclaiming if she voted for giga @ any point this game so her statement is an obvious lie.

[Thor665]

I also don't like the ascetic claim, never seen the role used before, seems like a convenient claim for a scum player to fall back on to create doubt.

That's silly - you can't fake ascetic too well, I believe it's his role. You can debate the alignment, but I don't really see the scum advantage of an open fake claim.
That's like fake claiming Dayvig - it doesn't work for long.

[karnos]

Whats this "giga is obv town" thing that you have going?

I have a "giga is obv town" thing going?

I misread thinking you meant how could anyone vote giga without it being a scum claim.

durh, I see you were specifically talking about Maria. Never mind, sometimes I am dumb.

[karnos]

I also don't like the ascetic claim, never seen the role used before, seems like a convenient claim for a scum player to fall back on to create doubt.

That's silly - you can't fake ascetic too well, I believe it's his role. You can debate the alignment, but I don't really see the scum advantage of an open fake claim.
That's like fake claiming Dayvig - it doesn't work for long.

1- it could be mafia aligned ascetic, nothing about the role implies town.

2- if you are scum and expect to be investigated, what else can you do? claim ascetic first and at least you can put up a big fight against the cop, and require the cop to out himself if he does investigate you. compared to just getting lynched, i see that as a big win, even if the lie can be proven eventually.

[karnos]

What I'm saying is:

MARIA has treated giga as confirmed scum this entire game. Then she says that if she was scum she would have voted giga a few pages ago.

LOL that slip.

[JarJarDrinks]

heh, yeah u got what I meant.

Readlist almost ready

[chilledtea]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT 1.15

gerryoat (L-3) : MariaR, Shadow_step, gigabyteTroubadour, Elyse.

MariaR (L-3) : Thor665, MichelSableheart, gerryoat, Blitzkrieg.

Shadow_step (L-5) : I Am Innocent, Nero Cain.

gigabyteTroubadour (L-6) : karnos.

Blitzkrieg (L-6) : kraska77.

Not Voting (1) : JarJarDrinks.

Day will end in (expired on 2016-09-13 10:30:00)

[karnos]

Reads.

Shadow_step lurks a lot. voted me. probably scum because I am biased.
Thor665 logical player, hard to read.
Elyse seems towny, came to mostly same conclusions as me regarding transcends silly gambits.
gerryoat seems scummy, but might just be the EM play style shining through. unsure.
gigabyteTroubadour I miss the crying in spansish avatar. probably scum.
karnos I'm very town.
JarJarDrinks could jarjar secretly be the sith lord? probably not.
Nero Cain this seems to be some old player everyone respects. i don't like his reads so far.
I Am Innocent obviously town, his name isn't "i am guilty"
MichelSableheart awkward town, which some players read as scum. hope he gives some good insight before he gets misslynched
MariaR wildcard, fair chance of flipping scum but not my top vote for the day
kraska77 haven't read enough of her posts to say
Blitzkrieg "

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: MariaR

L-2

[Thor665]

1- it could be mafia aligned ascetic, nothing about the role implies town.

2- if you are scum and expect to be investigated, what else can you do? claim ascetic first and at least you can put up a big fight against the cop, and require the cop to out himself if he does investigate you. compared to just getting lynched, i see that as a big win, even if the lie can be proven eventually.

1. Sure, I already said as much.
2. So...your scum defense is you expect to be investigated, so you claim ascetic so people are obligated to read you based off that, and do so because of fear of a theory Cop, while also now making multiple non-Cop roles capable of being a Cop when targeting you.

Yeah...maaaaaaybe. Kinda don't see it as a good play, doesn't preclude it happened, but I'm hardly sold.

In other news, your theory top scumread just pulled a hail Mary reverse on Maria and also weakened the Gerry wagon.
There are 19 hours left in the day.
Three wagons exist that you find scummy to some degree (Gerry, Maria, and Shadow).
You're derping on a single vote wagon going nowhere fast.

You should move your vote.

[JarJarDrinks]

Thor

- Town. Like every one of his posts scream town to me. The scumhunting, the reads, the reaction to trans's shitposting. I don't agree w/ him scumreading Elyse @ all but hey, people make bad reads.

Elyse

- Town. Don't really get why people are scumreading this. Reads seem good and her response to her wagon reads town to me. Only thing about Elyse I don't like is how I kinda feel like she really knew the mason claim was fake. But I guess I had doubts too. And regardless that'd still mean maria or giga are better lynches.

Michel

- Town. I find myself agreeing w/ most of what michel writes. Him not wanting to lynch outside of the mason claims reads town to me as scum should be trying to keep his options open.

gerry

- townlean. I think the fake vig "claim" reads town to me. Scum don't like calling attention to themselves. Wish he'd give us more content but I don't see anything to scumread him for

IAI

- townlean. Scumhunting feels genuine and the progression of his reads feel very logical.

Nero

- slight Town lean. Lotsa scumhunting and putting his opinion and explanations out there. Was gonna have him higher but don't really like how when I read his ISO, his reads on maria/gig weren't really that clear.

karnos

- null. I don't like the attack on gerry for his "claim" and feel like he post too much game theory fluff rather than scumreads. But I like his approach to the mason thing and feel like some of his posts about it are just too ballsy for scum to make.

kraska

- slight scumlean. I've pointed out the scuminess in her defending so many people on day 1. not really much for me to townread BUT one thing DOES read pretty town to me: She seemed genuinely concerned about Thor replacing out and tried to make peace between everyone.

Blitz

- scumlean. After the mason claim blitz unvotes and says that she townreads trans but still scumreads maria. That makes no sense. Also there's not much scumhunting in blitz's iso @ all.

giga

- Scumlean. Hated trans. Like giga a little better but still leaning scum. Agree w/ IAI's reasoning about scum-giga/town-maria being unlikely so prob wont pursue this (until maria flips scum @ least)

Shadow

- Scum. No scumhunting @ all. Lotsa fluff in his posts and he has like zero reads. And man his "Your scum gambit isn't going to work" @ gerry is so contrived,

Maria

- Scum. I will work on putting a case together as this is who I think should be lynched today.

[Thor665]

BUT one thing DOES read pretty town to me: She seemed genuinely concerned about Thor replacing out and tried to make peace between everyone.

You're saying if she got a scum rolePM she *wouldn't* have done that?
Because these feels like a personality tell more than an alignment tell, just like Nero's white knight theory with IAI.