Open 44 - Twofold Mafia: GAME OVER! before 506

[Dasquian]

Pretty much. ckillor was scummy for lurking, but in the more active "I'm here but won't contribute" sense rather than being absent. My vote was also partially due to pushing him into action and taking a stance, which now won't happen. I will carry across suspicion for him being an active-lurker, but the last week or so of posts are a null-tell since he's getting replaced, and in addition, I like to give replacements a few days to show me how much of my suspicion was of the role and how much was of the (previous) player.

So he's now a bit of a dead-end, at least until he gets replaced, so I need a new bandwagon, which means a reread, which I'll try to get to in the next 24 hours or so.

[lordy]

Yes, I would admit my posting pattern over the last few pages have been quite lurky, I as very much gone over the weekend. As many times as I've tried rereading this game, what really stands out is how the votes appear with really any logic at all. I try to trace the logic for a single vote, a short while later I find that there really is little logic over some of them.

As for the role fishing incident, I am rather perplexed over why my predecessor done things the way he did, and thus I can only excuse his behavior, not explain it (because i can't explain his behavior.) However, at one point the amount of votes on me spiked to 5, and from what I can tell some of them are really unfounded.

Panzer's play(now sik) appeared to me at times to be rather suspicious, but seeing that he/she claimed doc and is pretty much going to die tonight, I'd just continue to keep my eye on him/her.

In the meantime, I will wait for ckillor's replacement to come in. During my rereads he has really stood out. Not only has he offered the town little content, he even continued to disregard our requests and to date has mostly defended his lurking, or just jumped on bandwagons.

In the meantime, just in case anyone's wondering, I requested for people to justify their votes on me so that I can gain their fresh updated perspective regard me, and my predecessor's behavior. Some of the logic use thus far has been utterly weak, and I do not want to be forever defending myself 10 pages into the past.

And as such, from this point onward most of my posts will be pertaining to current discussion and developments as they happen.

[shaft.ed]

In the meantime, just in case anyone's wondering, I requested for people to justify their votes on me so that I can gain their fresh updated perspective regard me, and my predecessor's behavior. Some of the logic use thus far has been utterly weak, and I do not want to be forever defending myself 10 pages into the past.

I agree with this sentiment. While I did supply reasons I thought were adequate for a vote, it seemed quite a few people were voting to counter a bandwagon. I'd like to hear from JDodge and Rishi about their votes since they are the only players left from that bandwagon.

And thanks aioqwe.

[pwayne66]

Happy Birthday Shaft.

[shaft.ed]

Happy Birthday Shaft.

Clearly lurking in plain site . Thanks

I'm going to try to get up all my opinions of everyone(s) today. I wish I could put it all in one post for easy reference, but I don't think I'll have the solid block of time to do so. I'll use a 100 point scale, 0 being town 100 being scum.

Dasq:

Aggresive but straight forward player. Pushes bandwagon's and states clearly ahead of time that he wants claims or lynches from most. At first I was hesitant about such a strategy. I still am not 100% behind it, but as power roles in this game are not as useful as in other set ups (ie cop innocent doesn't mean innocent) and the Doc is presumably outed already, I think this is actually quite a protown strategy to force claims. I find his votes reasoned though I do not always agree with their placement.

30

TylerJ:

While I do agree he gives off scum tells, I am still under the impression they are primarily newb tells. He was bandwagoned early for very little reason, but his reaction was defensive and non-effectual. His arguments against others were quite poor and he seemed easily flustered. His move against Panzer at the time looked justified and I agreeed with his vote, but Panzer's subsequent Doc claim casts a new light on the possible motives behind the vote. I'd say he's scummy, but I am still thinking he could be a nervous townsperson.

60

CA/Panzer/Sikario:

I have already posted my feelings about CA's scumminess in detail. He was the scummiest standout in the early phase of the game. Panzer's play very much ping'ed my scumdar, but meta'ing him made me realize this was normal play for him, so a little less weight is applied. His Doc claim is also suicide meaning I very much doubt he could be anti-town. Sikario has added nothing that would outweigh the Doc claim contribution of Panzer. This comment is wrong however and I missed commenting on it at the time:

Dasquian

Pressure Panzerjager; On Panzer’s ass. If mafia killed Panz, I’d say Das was mafia.

Mafia will kill Panzer regardless of who they are. Him dying is a null tell sicne he is the claimed Doc.

10

Rishi:

In every game I undoubtedly have a player setting off my Subconcious Scumdar TM. Rishi has been that player in this game. I can't really put my finger on it, but I find Rishi scummy. He's been on three bandwagon's (two of which were in common with me) and made a joke about being bandwagon buddies which makes me fear scum buddying up to me. I found his reasoning behind the TylerJ bandwagon to be almost non-existant, as well as his inclusion on the two ChronX wagons. He also overreacted when I said I disagreed with some of his points after a long post of his. I realize if I'm going to make a case against Rishi I will need more specifics, so I will be doing a more in depth analysis of him later on.

65

ChronX/ lordy:

I've already posted and reposted my feelings on ChronX. I've also initiated two bandwagons against ChronX during this game. The fact that they were so easy to get off the ground makes me strongly consider that there were scum on both (note me, JDodge, and Rishi were on both wagons, JDodge and Rishi were also on Tyler together). However, ChronX is not well liked by certain players that are/were in this game so it may have had personal undertones. I think lordy's subsequent play has been a bit lurky and until the most recent post a little paranoid. But I liked the aggresive tone of his last post and this did erase some of my suspicions towards lordy specifically. I think my suspicions of ChronX have been diminished by lordy's recent play.

40

That's all for now. I'll try to finish up later today.

[Rishi]

The second ChronX wagon was a reaction to the Panzerjager wagon. I've already stated my reasons several times. We are coming close to a deadline, and we can't just sit around and wait for someone else to do something scummy while we're waiting for a new wagon.

Maybe it's all the replacements, but people seem to have short memories in this game. I don't think replacements should automatically get a free pass. That's one of the reasons, perhaps, the replacement problem is so bad in this game. It's a valid strategic move, considering how forgiving everyone else is being.

I found ChronX scummy not only once, but twice. I'm going to trust my instincts. I'm not going to look at the last week of posts and continuously find new reasons to vote for lordy. I am sorry that lordy has nothing to defend against regarding his predecessor's behavior, but that's no excuse not to participate. He could post a list of who he thinks is scummy. He could comment on other people's behavior. He's not. He even admitted that he doesn't want to look for things in a re-read and will only comment on what happens from this point forward.

I'm done with vote-hopping. I think we have enough information to make an informed lynch. The only players I am willing to vote for today are lordy and aioqwe.

[shaft.ed]

I'm done with vote-hopping. I think we have enough information to make an informed lynch. The only players I am willing to vote for today are lordy and aioqwe.

I have to say I am quite surprised that you are so sure about aioqwe. The only argument I can find you ever making against aioqwe is:

aioqwe -- Doing exactly what I have been accusing TylerJ of doing. I am surprised this guy doesn't have more votes. He has not really been commenting except to call this and that scummy. He uses a lot of FoS's instead of votes (scummy because you play both sides of the fence - if the person isn't scum, you can say, "Well, I didn't vote for him." And if they are scum, you say, "I was suspicious too!). Has not been helpful at all lately.

And that was nearly a month ago with no added pursuit from you or scum tells, that I could find, coming from aioqwe. I can see you wanting to push a lurker, but if that's all you require, there's a town roster full of lurkers in this game. I hope you will clarify your narrow lynch choices on such a generic player with a little more evidence.

until then

FoS Rishi

[Rishi]

happy birthday shaft!

Okay since the game isn't moving

vote: lordy

Just another bandwagon vote to get things moving

Re-reading isn't helping me... No matter how many times I look back I can't pick out anything. New posts seem the way to go for me (:

There is a substantial argument against chronx that has been detailed that I mostly agree with (shated's posts mostly). Lordy also seems quite lurky... in the past 4 pages ckillor (getting replaced), Jdodge (was replaced during this time), and GH (2 posts) have posted less than Lordy (3)

Albeit it's hard to read through 23 pages but the other replacements seem to have done so and you have made 2 redundant posts. It just seems your posting to avoid the prod...

Sure... you want more on aioqwe, here we go. I am surprised no one looked at this post. First, he blatantly says that he is going to bandwagon lordy. JDodge and I have votes on lordy based on things that ChronX did a while back, and we have left them there. Doesn't this seem like a convenient attempt to just get at the person with the most votes?

His justification for the vote is based on counting the number of posts that people have made. I'm not totally against lynching people for chronic lurking, but simply saying that lordy is scummy because he's made the fewest posts? That's a super-weak argument. Then, he just points to other people's posts for reasons for the vote.

Throw in the fact that he admits that he's not even going to attempt to read the old posts and you have someone who is not even trying to be helpful.

[shaft.ed]

Sure... you want more on aioqwe, here we go. I am surprised no one looked at this post. First, he blatantly says that he is going to bandwagon lordy.

JDodge and I have votes on lordy based on things that ChronX did a while back

, and we have left them there. Doesn't this seem like a convenient attempt to just get at the person with the most votes?

I find it a bit odd that you would speak for JDodge in such a way. Especially since he's admitted to having no reason behind his ChronX/lordy vote

Meh.

Unvote, vote: ChronX

This is blatant wagon-hopping. Discuss.

So aioqwe has now done the exact same thing as JDodge, but aioqwe is scum because JDodge had non-existant reasons for his vote.

I also don't see aioqwe admitting he's not going to attempt to read old posts:

Throw in the fact that he admits that he's not even going to attempt to read the old posts and you have someone who is not even trying to be helpful.

Re-reading isn't helping me... No matter how many times I look back I can't pick out anything. New posts seem the way to go for me (:

Sounds like he has been rereading "many times" in fact. He says he's just not commenting because he's not picking anything up.

In summary, I agree aioqwe is lurky and his vote on lordy is bandwagoning, but he's said that. I don't know how this is a big enough scum tell to make him one of two people that you are comfortable lynching today.

[TylerJ]

Chronx has enough votes on him, but I don't think Max has any pressure for his role fishing. I'm thinking about placing my vote there.

On the other hand, because of the deadline, maybe it would be best to place my vote on Chronx. Is his replacement Lordy? If it is, he just got another vote, in which case I wouldn't want to vote him just yet.

[JDodge]

my reason for my vote on ChronX was to get reactions over the shameless bandwagoning thing.

But either way, Dasquian is scum.

Vote: Dasquian

[shaft.ed]

my reason for my vote on ChronX was to get reactions over the shameless bandwagoning thing.

It seems the only reaction you got was Rishi's recent use of your vote to add some kind of import and rationalization to his vote on the same wagon. I suppose you found nothing odd about this as you've dropped a vote on Dasq instead?

[JDodge]

Dasq is scum with pwayne.

But Rishi can be part of the other scumgroup.

[shaft.ed]

Dasq is scum with pwayne.

But Rishi can be part of the other scumgroup.

Man, how many games do you have to play in order to find three of the four scum on D1? If you think Rishi, Dasq and pwayne are scum why only vote Dasq? I'll vote Rishi if you do.

[shaft.ed]

OK this is probably dangerous, but I'm going to try to rush in a couple opinions before I log out for the day.

theoper/pwayne:

Theo was very lurky during his play and didn't explain his actions often. He did indicate a couple times that he was having access issues, so this may have been excusable. His contributions were generally pro-town to me. He was part of the first ChronX wagon and actually gave a reason for the vote. Seemed to take on the lurkers more than anything, giving a post against aoiqwer with a vote, and also went after Tyler for accusing people without taking a stance. Switches his aioqwe vote over to ckillor as a part of that mini-wagon. Didn't really have much else to say. Pwayne came in with a pretty detailed analysis of everyone in the game, quibbled a little bit about the meaning of panzer's claim and then refuted lordy's suggestion that noone had given a reason for their votes on him. All together they seem generally protown.

35

Max/Tobiassen:

Max lurked a lot and conflicted his statements a few times. Didn't like his play. In his first substance containing post he attacks CA for using bad logic to attacks me for playstyle, and then me for "playstyle" (bad logic much?). He maintains his suspicions on me without ever substantiating anything, which I didn't like and he never really addressed. Has a quick suspicion of ckillor. Then FoS's panzer before leaving. Note that he never voted for anybody after the random stage, and his accusations are really all over the place. I don't know how he didn't get more attention before, but I guess the Tyler and Panzer incidents were distracting people. Tobiassen hasn't really added anything but soft core elf porn sicne replacing in for Max. So I'd really really like to here your thoughts on Max's play. But for now, I'd have to say Max is the scummiest player of my reread.

75

I'm going to finish revisiting everyone before I vote again, which will hopefully be tommorow.

[lordy]

Dasq is scum with pwayne.

But Rishi can be part of the other scumgroup.

my reason for my vote on ChronX was to get reactions over the shameless bandwagoning thing.

But either way, Dasquian is scum. Vote: Dasquian

Mind explaining your votes and suspicions?

I have my eyes on JDodge. Shaft.ed's picking up of his and Rishi's voting pattern only helps me justify my vote. Both have largely been votehopping and getting on bandwagons, some times (especially J Dodge) with little or no reason.

vote: Jdodge

And no Rishi, I don't want a free pass, and neither should be giving anybody one

[Rishi]

Man, how many games do you have to play in order to find three of the four scum on D1? If you think Rishi, Dasq and pwayne are scum why only vote Dasq? I'll vote Rishi if you do.

Bargaining? If you think someone is suspicious, then vote for them. Don't ask for support.

Also, I would take what JDodge is saying with a grain of salt. He is notoriously bad at reading me. I can point to more than one game (including completed games) where he was absolutely convinced that I was scum and was completely wrong.

As far as aioqwe goes, it is true he's doing many of the same things that JDodge is doing, but I've played with JDodge A LOT and I'm fairly comfortable with the fact that he isn't scum. Perhaps I should do a meta-read on aioqwe, to see if he always plays like this. I'd probably do this before a vote.

[JDodge]

Dasq is scum with pwayne.

But Rishi can be part of the other scumgroup.

my reason for my vote on ChronX was to get reactions over the shameless bandwagoning thing.

But either way, Dasquian is scum. Vote: Dasquian

Mind explaining your votes and suspicions?

I have my eyes on JDodge. Shaft.ed's picking up of his and Rishi's voting pattern only helps me justify my vote. Both have largely been votehopping and getting on bandwagons, some times (especially J Dodge) with little or no reason.

vote: Jdodge

And no Rishi, I don't want a free pass, and neither should be giving anybody one

I explained my Dasquian suspicions ages ago; haven't you read the game?

And I do not like explaining secondary suspicions; an explanation for them helps no one.

Also, I dislike giving reasons. You might want to get used to it.

[shaft.ed]

EBWOP: Bah I butchered a sentence in the above post. Really shouldn't rush these longer ones.

In his first substance containing post he attacks CA for using bad logic to attacks me for playstyle, and then me for "playstyle" (bad logic much?).

Should read
....he attacks CA for using bad logic to attack me, and then he attacks me for "playstyle"......

Bargaining? If you think someone is suspicious, then vote for them. Don't ask for support.

Also, I would

take what JDodge is saying with a grain of salt

.

I was just posting in a similar vein as JDodge. I would take my comment with a grain of salt as well.

[Dasquian]

I got mobbed by work today, but I've done most of a write-up of my thoughts. If I don't get it posted in the next 20 minutes, I'll try to get it posted first thing tomorrow morning.

[Dasquian]

OK, this wasn't the result of a full and meticulous reread, but I've done the best I can with 24 pages without getting lost. In order of the front-page:

JDodge (briefly Frostypants) - Has thrown a vote on me, with nothing I can directly answer. Seems to favour a style of play where he doesn't stop to explain himself very often, which sets off my alarms as if that's taken as read he can basically do anything and not get called up on it. I also don't like being paired with pwayne66, and if JDodge is scum pwayne could very likely be a scum-partner: if I die and am town, JDodge is discredited and is distanced from pwayne, if pwayne dies and is scum, JDodge has support and tries to get me lynched/NKed. Frostypants was just weird. I have no idea what his deal was, but he didn't seem to make much impact.

pwayne66 (formerly theopor COD) - I like pwayne's posts so far; he seems to me to be a good likelihood of being townie. Nothing really setting off my scumdar.

Sikario8 (formerly ChocolateAttack, Panzerjager) - This is the easy one. He's claimed doctor, so he doesn't get lynched today. I suspect he really is the doctor, too, because it's such a suicidal claim. It's possible he will survive til tomorrow, but if he does, I expect at least one mafia group and probably both will get him the following night.

TylerJ - I've done a complete u-turn on this guy; I tend to think he's much more pro-town than I did earlier in the day.

groinhammer - Hasn't posted much recently. I don't have a great read on him, but he doesn't seem particularly scummy to me.

aioqwe - Has been posting more in the last couple of pages than earlier in the game, but doesn't stand out to me as being particularly pro-town. Another ChronX voter (572) that I can't really get behind.

Rishi - I can't remember who said this earlier, but Rishi caught my eye very early on as a potential scum, just on gut feeling, and still does for acting in a way I can't criticise but totally disagree with. He seems to be hanging around in my blind spot, and could well be scum playing in the sweet spot of being active and appearing to contribute, helping along bandwagons, but not being the one carrying the can in any particular case.

Tobiassen (formerly Max) - Max did literally nothing. Tobiassen has done nothing except ask clueless-sounding questions, and making some trite pattern observation about the votes. This has necessarily got to be a bone of contention and had better change very soon.

lordy (formerly ChronX) - I saw nothing wrong with ChronX's postings and felt he got a lot of early game pressure undeservedly. To be honest, at the time the ChronX bandwagon was at its highest, I was too busy pressuring Panzerjager to give it proper attention. Looking back though, it looked like he went to 5 votes very quickly - Rishi and JDodge in 387 and 388, Pj in 402, and ckillor in 418. Of those, only Pj bothered to support his vote with an explanation.

shaft.ed - Seems like a straightforward, high-posting player, who says logical and rational things. I would reiterate the previous thought that he's been suspiciously agreeable all game, but find it hard to make that into a case for scumminess. Nevertheless, I get the feeling this guy could well be scum playing the careful game.

ckillor - Getting replaced. Actively lurked, and getting thoughts out of him was like getting blood from a stone. His vote on ChronX (418) was very suspicious, it felt like a grudging "oh well, if you're going to

force

me" vote. If he wasn't getting replaced, I would be pressuring him hard, now. Unfortunately, he is, so I will wait to see how his replacement fares.


So, current feelings: the most suspicious people in the town, for me, are Tobiassen, Rishi, ckillor and JDodge, with shaft.ed and aioqwe as ongoing concerns. Tobiassen I don't want to lynch, I want to hear from. ckillor is off the hook til his replacement arrives. JDodge is now claiming his argument 10 or so pages ago still holds up; I'm sure as hell not going back to find it, he can damn well restate it if he cares. Rishi I actually find more insidiously scummy though, so:

vote Rishi

.

[somestrangeflea]

7

lordy - 4 (Rishi, Sikario8, ckillor, aioqwe)
ckillor - 2 (pwayne66, shaft.ed)
Sikario8 - 1 (groinhammer)
Dasquian - 1 (JDodge)
JDodge - 1 (lordy)
Rishi - 1 (Dasquian)

Not Voting - Tobiassen, TylerJ

12 alive, 7 to lynch, 4 at deadline

6 days, 22 hours, 49 minutes until deadline.

[somestrangeflea]

Groinhammer has PM'd me a V/LA for 7th-12th, so will not be prodded. Sikario, on the other hand, will be.

[Tobiassen]

hmm, i feel kinda sorry about not being able to vote for anyone,
but i'm not sure on who to place my vote on :/

[shaft.ed]

voting for someone 101:

Before voting for someone be sure that you are not casting a vote for another player as this is not allowed. In order to do this type

unvote

and be sure it is bolded. You can bold text by highlighting the said portion and clicking the B at the top of your interface.

Now that you know how to unvote, voting is simple. Simply type in the name of someone you want to vote with the word vote preceeding it. For example

vote Tobiassen

. Now bold your text as above.

See that was easy.


Seriously Max was scummy, you aren't contributing and that last post is full of scum trying to look careful.