California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

6 to lynch.

Zindaras: 2 (PookyTheMagicalBear, Sarcastro)
Dragon Phoenix: 1 (Setael)
foolinc: 1 (Talitha)
PookyTheMagicalBear: 1 (foolinc)
Sarcastro: 1 (Dragon Phoenix)
Setael: 1 (IH)
Silent Lee/the silent speaker: 1 (Gaspar)

[IH]

Zindaras was also unattentive scum in open 20, where in lylo he didn't hammer for something like two days or so. I can't remember the exact time frame.

IH: post 1573: Logisticus killed by a vig? O rly?

If Foolinc is scum, yahrly.

DP why do you think Sarc is scummier than Setael, when you said she was likely scum?

I may be adjusting my condorcet and putting Sarc lower... I'm getting a better vibe from him, kind of like his play at the end of royal family.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I think they are both likely scum, but I rank Sarcastro even higher,

I really don;t get the connection between your supposed vigging of Log and foolinc being scum. Tehan againa I am slightly drnk, so.

[Dragon Phoenix]

OK, I have sobered up - apologies for that.

[Talitha]

DP -

About foolinc - you say he gets the benefit because there is no counter claim of doc... but in a game such as this, why do we assume that our doc must be pro-town?
There is a kill missing on night 1, I think. But I think we'd be foolish to assume it was definitely because of a doctor.

[Talitha]

Here's another synopsis of the d'avrigy character from a different source (answers.com)

Doctor D'avrigny

Doctor d'Avrigny is physician to the Villefort family. He suspects that the mysterious deaths of several family members are murder, but he says nothing to the authorities.

[Talitha]

I simply just do not believe that foolinc is a vanilla pro-town doctor, with nothing more to the role. Sorry.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I am not giving foolinc a free ride, but I do think it is too soon to string up our only claimed doctor. Especially since there are in my opinion better candidates.

I would not put it past mith to exclude a pro-town doctor altogether. But I am not willing to put my money on that right now.

[Talitha]

Fair enough.

[IH]

DP, if Foolinc is scum, or by that I mean Parisian mafia, then I'd say there has to be another killing group out there or that Foolinc is a traitor, or possibly that they're stupid scum.

First of all, why would the scum kill a claimed power role that the town would expect doc protection? That would implicate foolinc even more. While it is entirely possible the scum didn't think that through, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and base it's possible there is another mafia group, another Sk, or some form of a vig out there.

[foolinc]

I simply just do not believe that foolinc is a vanilla pro-town doctor, with nothing more to the role. Sorry.

What about this game tells you differently? We've had a good number of power roles, but we've also had normal townies as well.

In other news, I'm kind of disappointed my Wolverines lost, but the OSU loss cushions the blow.

[Setael]

First of all, why would the scum kill a claimed power role that the town would expect doc protection? That would implicate foolinc even more. While it is entirely possible the scum didn't think that through, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and base it's possible there is another mafia group, another Sk, or some form of a vig out there.

I think it's more likely that there's a mafia roleblocker that has been blocking foolinc. Another mafia group or an SK would be equally concerned about the doc protecting a claimed power role, so they wouldn't be any more likely to target him. A mafia roleblocker would better explain the mafia's confidence in picking off claimed power roles without being worried about wasting their kill.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Come to think of it, I am not buying the mafia role blocker theory, unless someone can convince me otherwise; In every game I have been in with role blockers (pro or anti town), a role blocked player was informed that his/her nightly action did not go through.

[IH]

I think it's more likely that there's a mafia roleblocker that has been blocking foolinc. Another mafia group or an SK would be equally concerned about the doc protecting a claimed power role, so they wouldn't be any more likely to target him. A mafia roleblocker would better explain the mafia's confidence in picking off claimed power roles without being worried about wasting their kill.

Since the whole reason for my above was if Foolinc was scum. If he's town, it doesn't matter anyway.

Tags removed. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[Dragon Phoenix]

So, is the discussion dying down again and are we heading for another pathetic no-lynch? We are really handing the scum this game on a silver platter. Anyone not voting yet, comit to someone!

[Zindaras]

Come to think of it, I am not buying the mafia role blocker theory, unless someone can convince me otherwise; In every game I have been in with role blockers (pro or anti town), a role blocked player was informed that his/her nightly action did not go through.

Actually, ever since I've been coming here, I haven't seen anything but the opposite: blocked people aren't informed of anything. Maybe Cops and the like, but they usually just get "no result".

I don't get why people are still voting me.

[Talitha]

I'm just looking at the numbers... I think it's time to really start thinking hard about how many scum we have vs how many players left alive.

We have 10 players alive. (I think it was) Foolinc (who) pointed out early in the game that a mafia group of four certain characters would make sense.. then one of those characters died and was revealed as a member of the mafia. So his theory is looking good. Also, a four person mafia group would seem about right for a game of this size. So, I think it would be best to assume that we have 3 allied scum alive. Then there is the possibility that the Dr D'Vrigny was recruited (instead of a kill on night 1?), or that he's always been a scumbag, but didn't know the identity of the other mafia members, or something like that.
So, best case 3, worst case 4.
If we are in the worst case, and we lynch wrong today, we go to night woth 9 players... a kill overnight seals the victory for the scum.
So, am I making myself clearer as to why I think foolinc is the best choice? If he's not scum, we get another day. If he is scum, we're in lynch-wrong-lose.

Pooky has been acting like it's lynch-wrong-lose (which really scares me) yet he's not voting for foolinc. This is one of the reasons I am getting surer about Pooks being scum.

I could be persuaded to vote for Pooks or Gaspar today if I can't get support on foolinc. I understand why foolinc inst a completely attactive option. It's logical to want to try and lynch one of the three, rather than someone who we know definitely isn't one of the three. I am just concerned about lynching wrong if foolinc is scum with the three.

[Talitha]

inst = isn't

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It's getting pretty close to LyLo wouldn't you say tally?

in fact we're exactly 1 day away from LyLo if we mislynch today,

which is why today should be the day where people begin attacking, cops begin claiming results because a cop claim at LyLo has as much chance to fly as a grounded potato and because counterclaiming at LyLo is a viable scum gambit.

Basically the game goes from town adv on claims to town disadv at LyLo tommorrow if we mislynch today.

And when faced with this, it seems most of the town is content with doing nothing.

Can you really be upset at me for being worried about our current situation?

[Setael]

I think if we all come together on a DP lynch, we'll hit scum. His last post telling us "we're handing the game to scum on a silver platter" just sounds like something scum would say to sound town.

Maybe anyone who thinks I'm wrong about DP and thinks he's town tell me why you think he's town. Otherwise vote him.

[foolinc]

I'm just looking at the numbers... I think it's time to really start thinking hard about how many scum we have vs how many players left alive.

We have 10 players alive. (I think it was) Foolinc (who) pointed out early in the game that a mafia group of four certain characters would make sense.. then one of those characters died and was revealed as a member of the mafia. So his theory is looking good. Also, a four person mafia group would seem about right for a game of this size. So, I think it would be best to assume that we have 3 allied scum alive. Then there is the possibility that the Dr D'Vrigny was recruited (instead of a kill on night 1?), or that he's always been a scumbag, but didn't know the identity of the other mafia members, or something like that.
So, best case 3, worst case 4.
If we are in the worst case, and we lynch wrong today, we go to night woth 9 players... a kill overnight seals the victory for the scum.
So, am I making myself clearer as to why I think foolinc is the best choice? If he's not scum, we get another day. If he is scum, we're in lynch-wrong-lose.

Pooky has been acting like it's lynch-wrong-lose (which really scares me) yet he's not voting for foolinc. This is one of the reasons I am getting surer about Pooks being scum.

I could be persuaded to vote for Pooks or Gaspar today if I can't get support on foolinc. I understand why foolinc inst a completely attactive option. It's logical to want to try and lynch one of the three, rather than someone who we know definitely isn't one of the three. I am just concerned about lynching wrong if foolinc is scum with the three.

I'm not sure why I would be considered the best choice. If I was scum, the town would kill scum and everything would be fine. But if I am who I say I am (and I am the good Doctor) we not only lose a townie, but also the closest thing we have to a confirmed townie.

[Gaspar]

I am extraordinarily sure that there are exactly three allied scumbaggoes left. Playing Outguess the Mod on the character identities of the scums is awfully dangerous, IMHO... we don't know if one of the "obvious" four isn't scum, or if Foolinc fake-claimed himself, or what. I find it alarming that people are throwing around discussions of characters and setup rather than looking more stictly at gameplay.

I am currently thinking that if Foolinc *IS* protown, DP is almost surely scum. He seems to want to wrangle a lynch on Foolinc without actually doing so. Am I the only person who finds it odd that while he's got Foolinc

lowest

on his Condorcet, he just openly stated that he A) Doesn't think there's a Scum Roleblocker [and by the way, DP, I've modded at least one game in which a Scum Roleblocker's target was not notified of having been blocked]; and B) isn't willing to accept the existence of a protown Doctor? This seems to be a product of a

very

conveniently-shifting stance as momentum against Foolinc continues to mount.




Also.... IH, I'd

REALLY

like you to explain the rationale behind a vig killing a claimed Mason, because I'm not seeing it

at all

. I'd also like you to throw your weight around in a manner more relevant to finding scum here and now, rather than debating why Logic died.

I'd give 85% that the remaining scums are among [Tally, DP, Zindaras, SiLee]. Accordingly:

Unvote
Vote: Zindaras

, [Tally, DP, SilentLee], [Pooky, IH], [Sarc, Saetel, foolinc], No Lynch, Gaspar

[IH]

Hey. Glorkspar. Look closer.

1.Only if Foolinc is parisian mafia
2.It's not necessarily a vig, it's another killing group other than the parisian mafia

I've explained reasoning. If you don't want to read my rationale, please quit asking = (

[Gaspar]

*shakes head*

You are missing my point, sir. Supposing Foolinc is Parisian Scum and somebody else killed Logic, there's still no reason a Vig would kill Logic. And if there were two scumgroups, there's no explanation as to why there has been at most one kill each night (if we assume that LmL's claim to Thesp's death is still legit).



I don't know why you're giving any weight behind a VIG killing Logic.
I don't know why you're giving any weight behind there being a second scumgroup.

[IH]

I didn't say vig.... someone else said vig.

I said another killing group.

Ok, once more. Last time.

Let's assume Fool is scum and in contact with his buddies. Surely, they know that the majority of the town believes Log's claim. They know that Fool has claimed doctor, and that he will be expected to protect, right? So, if Fool is actually NOT a doctor (or is a scum doctor) why would they implicate their own member?

On second thought there are other possibilities, though I'm unsure how much more likely they are. Like Fool is a traitor, that there are scum that didn't think it through, or there are scum that are trying to get their on buddy lynched by way of bussing.

If neither of those three are true, then it means that either there is A.Another killing group (Second SK, Vig, second Scumgroup, etc etc) B.Fool is town who seriously didn't protect logictus last night.

Further more, Foolinc HAS to be Parisian mafia for any of this to make sense, since if he's part of a second group, then the Parisian could have done the kill. I repeat. Only for this to MAKE SENSE.

If Foolinc does turn up scum though (especially doc scum), I would say that Zindy is his partner. Why? Because he protected Zindy. I have a feeling, from what I would do as a scum doc, that he is telling the truth of his target, mostly from fear of a tracker or something of the like. Therefore, if he is indeed protecting a buddy last night from some type of kill, then that would be Zindaras.

Understand?