Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[Transcend]

one can never be too confident

but i feel good about rosske rope

[Wingback]

Why do you think Rosske decided to kill Io?

[Transcend]

possibly to keep thor vs. tenshii. i haven't analyzed the kill that much and i'm not going to either.

[tojam2]

VC Day 4 - 7

Transcend L-3 - Rosske
Rosske L-2 - Transcend, Tenshii
Tenshii L-2 - Thor665, gigabyteTroubadour

(expired on 2016-08-29 09:30:00)

No new votes.

[Thor665]

Not being town aka Not helping town aka Lurking

So your answer is that the DEFINITION of not being town is lurking.
That is weird.

So do you just assume that Rosske wouldn't explain himself a lot as town? Is this and a night kill really your whole town read on Rosske?

Evidence supports the theory that Rosske would explain himself more as scum.
Yes, that info, the nightkill, and my expressed opinions about the question of Karnos about the lack of a Thor vote are all of the reasons for my stated town read on Rosske, and there is no other info I have suggested is relevant.
Considering 'lurking' can be the DEFINITION of not being town, that is a pretty big pile of info, far larger than any case you have offered - so I'm not sure what your boggle with it is.

So then why are you townreading Transcend?

As stated, because I read him as derpy town, not as derpy scum.

The best way for me to stop looking like an easy lynch is to get better at playing this game, which isn't going to happen overnight. After this game I'm probably gonna head back to newbie games. I don't mean to ignore your questions, I just don't always have an answer.

Not having an answer does not validate ignoring the question. Even if your answer is 'I dunno' you should provide it.

Like, it could have been a bus? it might not have been? And what do I have to say about my meta over then people that I saying I'm playing this game like I did when I was town are correct in their deduction? At the same time tho, this is a different game. I'm playing differently this game. I can't get any reads, I spent a huge chunk of the game just being confused by the mod. Maybe I'm being selfish for wanting to stick it out and see what I can get out of it, maybe if I had replaced out someone else could have contributed more. But I'm trying

I don't actually care about you trying - I care about what I do or don't get out of you.
A question of how you think your meta does or does not match up to your town/scum playstyle is a perfectly valid question and one you ought to be able to answer.
The same thing with the bussing question - you ought to be able to look at that and offer an opinion on whether it does or does not seem a likely scum bus action or not.
These are very simple questions looking for opinion answers.
You should answer both.

Thor, how sure are you that Transcend is town? How likely would it be for two town players to death tunnel in on each other like we've done?

I am not sure he is town, I simply tend to think he is.
On the reality that at least one of you is town, we have 100% evidence that town can death tunnel. At that point, all you need is to theorize that two town could do said death tunnel to each other.
Of far more concern to me is that both of you have great difficulty explaining your death tunnels and require near constant abuse to do so - if you can't describe the case clearly and (in your instance) have been cited as making up evidence repeatedly - why are you so sure that you're death tunneling?

so has anyone read my 1925 in its entirety

I read it at length - I could have posted a wall discussing it and why I disagree but saw no real value in that action as you have shown zero interest in debate on your thoughts and had to be abused into even stating said thoughts.
Would you like to debate your case?

possibly to keep thor vs. tenshii. i haven't analyzed the kill that much and i'm not going to either.

If scum Rosske wanted to keep Thor v. Tenshii - the smarter kill would have been Giga, who was widely townread and also not a strong Rosske defender.

[Transcend]

Scum won't always make the correct kill or the logical kill

Hence why all this night kill analysis should be put to rest and we analyze in-game tells / actions.

[Transcend]

I read it at length - I could have posted a wall discussing it and why I disagree but saw no real value in that action as you have shown zero interest in debate on your thoughts and had to be abused into even stating said thoughts.
Would you like to debate your case?

sure but i'm ignoring your debate if you use the word meta in it.

[Thor665]

Scum won't always make the correct kill or the logical kill

Hence why all this night kill analysis should be put to rest and we analyze in-game tells / actions.

But town won't always make the correct or logical action, hence we should analyze actions we know for a fact come from scum.
Your debate point is circular - yes, town and scum can make bad choices. That doesn't preclude one type of info over another, they are equally viable sources.

I read it at length - I could have posted a wall discussing it and why I disagree but saw no real value in that action as you have shown zero interest in debate on your thoughts and had to be abused into even stating said thoughts.
Would you like to debate your case?

sure but i'm ignoring your debate if you use the word meta in it.

You don't need to - you spent a long time in your case explaining why something was not alignment indicative, and then a paragraph immediately afterwards explaining it as the lynchpin of your case, and the entire thing falls apart without that lynchpin - which makes the case super weak as stands.

[Transcend]

k w/e maybe i don't need your vote then lol

[Transcend]

like if i spill my heart out and you still won't budge then at this point i'm just gonna let you lynch me or tenshii and not really give two s***s.

[Thor665]

I think you're mistaking spilling your heart out with effort with making a compelling case. Just because you worked hard on something does not, by definition, make it good. That I was able to poke a hole in it with a very simple observation that, as a reply, has you tossing your hands int he air and walking away - suggests that I have a rather valid point about the strength of the case.

[Transcend]

Well I personally feel it's good so you can f*** off.

[Thor665]

You're a pretty rude kid.

[Transcend]

Not a care in the world

[Wingback]

Going through Gigabyte's ISO and I really don't like their play post-Karnos flip. My initial townread came from how they treated Karnos and the interactions not looking like scum-scum. Examples are "no one's quickhammering you, Karnos, I'll fight them if they try" seems odd coming from a partner. Also, thought the reaction to KTS scumclaiming was town-looking on the surface.

The most troublesome thing for me is that while Karnos was alive, Gigabyte was tunneling him, but after he flipped, it's a lot of back and forth uncertainty. There's been a marked playstyle changed before and after. That's something I find indicative of scum because at one point they had a buddy to bus but after, it's just about looking town and not blowing your load pushing for a mislynch too early.

I can't see Transcend as scum so I'm reversing my read there. Lots of occasions where he genuinely looked like he was trying to sort the game. Tenshii's suggestion that he be lynched rings town as does his wondering if he could game the mod's activity although I do want it explained what exactly he was trying to do here.

Gigabyte's push on KTS solely to do something that Transcend wasn't reads fake. Gigabyte doesn't strike me as whimsical and if you are interpreting their action seriously, declining to vote someone just because Transcend is voting them is pretty horrible reasoning. Their switch around on Phantom after being so certain that he's town is another point of concern, as is their vote on Rosske while ignoring meta when most of their early reads are meta-based. Clearly gigabyte isn't against meta. I see the argument for Rosske only has one town and scum game but Gigabyte has gotten a townread on Phantom presumably based on one other game.

I've been thinkng about this game over and over and no one's really clicking as scum. That could be because I've been mostly ignoring the actual scum.

[Wingback]

Gigabyte's posting fading out is somewhat scum-indicative too as is the suggestion to make a townbloc including themselves and lynching outside of it. I much prefer mhsmith's proposal of just using every day to scumhunt and re-assessing who needs to be lynched. It's the pro-town strategy, and while I don't think it makes him town to suggest it, it's still the way to go.

If Gigabyte is such a good scumhunter that they could catch Karnos off of RQS, where's the same scumhunting drive to catch his partner? The townbloc idea is at odds for someone that caught scum so early and reeks of just hammering down a few mislynches so that the game doesn't go on forever and the drive to post fake-analysis drops down. Gigabyte continuing to post elsewhere but not here also fits into that mold.

[Transcend]

I'll be honest wing, in terms of giga, i think he's had a few scummy lines (hence my vote on him a few times) but i think his town motivated posts/actions significantly outweigh his scummy ones.

[Transcend]

Analysis of his rqs was very genuine and you gotta remember, he started the karnos lynch. I fail to see scum voting their partner due to a bad rqs response 2 pages into the game and then banking on winning the game solo throughout about 5 lynches.

Just some food for thought.

Still think Rosske is the move.

[Wingback]

My biggest hangup with Rosske is why is going to kill the one person who's sticking up for him and calling him obvtown?

An experienced scum player could do it for the WIFOM and push the argument that he wouldn't kill his biggest defender. But a raw newbie at Rosske's level doing it when alone is something I see as very unlikely. When I first started playing mafia, I certainly didn't kill townies who could be allies to me. And at the level Rosske was playing, he needed all the help he could get.

Re: opportunistic voting. Read his ISO here in this towngame. It's only 27 short posts so it's not so tedious to read. Notice how he mostly pushed on TheNewEarth (basically omgusing him similar to what he's doing with you), and then out of absolutely nowhere in the tenth post of his ISO, votes an L-1 wagon (it was Karnos, funnily enough). There's no read progression, no suspicion stated, just simply an opportunistic vote. For someone that plays the way he does as town, your case doesn't really resonate with me. I think you should take a quick look at the game and re-evaluate mhsmith/Gigabyte because on balance, I find them more suspicious by virtue of being in the background than Rosske.

[Transcend]

I just can't see myself voting anyone besides Rosske.

[Transcend]

Like at best you'll see me compromise lynch just so the ml doesn't go to waste.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Going through Gigabyte's ISO and I really don't like their play post-Karnos flip. My initial townread came from how they treated Karnos and the interactions not looking like scum-scum. Examples are "no one's quickhammering you, Karnos, I'll fight them if they try" seems odd coming from a partner. Also, thought the reaction to KTS scumclaiming was town-looking on the surface.

The most troublesome thing for me is that while Karnos was alive, Gigabyte was tunneling him, but after he flipped, it's a lot of back and forth uncertainty. There's been a marked playstyle changed before and after. That's something I find indicative of scum because at one point they had a buddy to bus but after, it's just about looking town and not blowing your load pushing for a mislynch too early.

For reasons I'm not comfortable discussing online, it's not really that much of a scumtell for me. Compare my D1 and D2+3 play in my newbie to what's going on here. Even though there was a town lynch instead of a scum lynch D1, I'm kind of going through the same thing as I did there

Gigabyte's push on KTS solely to do something that Transcend wasn't reads fake.

It was obviously a joke??

Gigabyte doesn't strike me as whimsical

lmao r u sure.... i'm FULL of WHIMSY

and if you are interpreting their action seriously, declining to vote someone just because Transcend is voting them is pretty horrible reasoning.

...which is why it's a joke

Their switch around on Phantom after being so certain that he's town is another point of concern, as is their vote on Rosske while ignoring meta when most of their early reads are meta-based.

most of my early reads on who? i only remember getting a meta read from phantom

Clearly gigabyte isn't against meta.

I only use it on hard-to-read players

I see the argument for Rosske only has one town and scum game but Gigabyte has gotten a townread on Phantom presumably based on one other game.

don't presume. you only need to read the playerlists of phantom's games to know he gets lynched D1 a lot. that tells me he's lynchbait, and i won't lynch lynchbait unless there's a convincing case, which Io brought out

I've been thinkng about this game over and over and no one's really clicking as scum. That could be because I've been mostly ignoring the actual scum.

well we have the same problem. hence my wishy-washiness

Gigabyte's posting fading out is somewhat scum-indicative too as is the suggestion to make a townbloc including themselves and lynching outside of it.

First, the townbloc was Tenshii's idea. i liked it because i felt that i had better townreads this game, if you can townhunt well you can PoE. and me posting much less just means i'm not as interested in playing this game.

I much prefer mhsmith's proposal of just using every day to scumhunt and re-assessing who needs to be lynched. It's the pro-town strategy, and while I don't think it makes him town to suggest it, it's still the way to go.

If Gigabyte is such a good scumhunter that they could catch Karnos off of RQS, where's the same scumhunting drive to catch his partner?

i lost interest in the game, me posting elsewhere shows that... you're reading way too far into me.

The townbloc idea is at odds for someone that caught scum so early and reeks of just hammering down a few mislynches so that the game doesn't go on forever and the drive to post fake-analysis drops down. Gigabyte continuing to post elsewhere but not here also fits into that mold.

no. i aboslutely love playing scum (i play mafia to be mafia tbqh) and i'm not the kind of person who coasts at this point. i know self-meta is useless but in my face-to-face games i'm generally more pushy and assertive as scum, and I love bsing people so i do it a lot. i don't know if i'm the same way in forums but there's a huge disconnect between my actual personality/playstyle and how you're reading me it seems

in a nutshell i think you're reading too far into things when i'm just really disinterested in this game. now that i have a few seconds of free time i'm going to see if i can weigh in on Tenshii vs. Rosske but i think this is a bit ridiculous (but i do deserve it)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

responses are in bold btw

[Transcend]

That was confusing to read

Giga your vote puts ross at L-1

Given that our time to lynch is bubbling down, I'd really like for you to take the initiative and run him up in votes a bit more.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i don't know if it's the lynch i want any more though

i think i've turned to the dark side.... sorry transcendentalism