Mini Normal 1809: Game Over

[Dierfire]

VOTE COUNT 4.02

No Lynch (2): Egg, MathBlade
Elyse (1): Killthestory

No Vote (3): Elyse, Wingback, BBmolla

With 6 players living, a lynch requires 4/6 votes.

TIMER

(expired on 2016-08-24 22:00:00)

NOTES

None

[Egg]

Prod dodge. Need to read up...

[Wingback]

@Egg, when you finish up, if you don't mind, give me a summary of where you are at with your reads with some explanations for each of them.

[Elyse]

@Elyse, if Math is so obvscum, why aren't you voting Math?

I'm withholding my vote so I can hammer any wagon that gets to L-1 that's not mine

[Killthestory]

@Elyse, if Math is so obvscum, why aren't you voting Math?

I'm withholding my vote so I can hammer any wagon that gets to L-1 that's not mine

confirmed herself as scum

VOTE: Elyse

[MathBlade]

@Elyse, if Math is so obvscum, why aren't you voting Math?

I'm withholding my vote so I can hammer any wagon that gets to L-1 that's not mine

confirmed herself as scum

VOTE: Elyse

Agreed. Will figure out which of Wingback/Egg tomorrow is scum.

VOTE: Elyse

[Wingback]

Mathblade's vote on Elyse is scummy and most likely a vote on a partner. I doubt she'd that put that scummy vote on a town player and make people second-guess. Makes much more sense to hammer after BBMolla and I vote if Elyse was town.

In any case, not doing anything until Egg lays out all his reads clearly.

Prod dodge. Need to read up...

Hopefully you have something good after the thorough reading you've done in the past four and a half hours.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade's vote on Elyse is scummy and most likely a vote on a partner. I doubt she'd that put that scummy vote on a town player and make people second-guess. Makes much more sense to hammer after BBMolla and I vote if Elyse was town.

In any case, not doing anything until Egg lays out all his reads clearly.

Prod dodge. Need to read up...

Hopefully you have something good after the thorough reading you've done in the past four and a half hours.

Nice flip from me being town to me being scum in .01 seconds.

You were concerned about no lynch scum going back to back which would make me town.
Then you double dip here.
Then you say I am voting my partner yet if you scumread Elyse why aren't you on them?

Then

[Egg]

Mathblade's vote on Elyse is scummy and most likely a vote on a partner. I doubt she'd that put that scummy vote on a town player and make people second-guess. Makes much more sense to hammer after BBMolla and I vote if Elyse was town.

In any case, not doing anything until Egg lays out all his reads clearly.

Prod dodge. Need to read up...

Hopefully you have something good after the thorough reading you've done in the past four and a half hours.

Sorry, can't read and sleep at the same time.

[Egg]

Wing, your posts right around my last one read like "Math is scum because Math is scum and Elyse is scum because of Math's meta and everyone else is town so here's 2 million words to say that". I don't really see where you're going or how you get there. If Math is scum, it might start to make some sense but you aren't really selling me on that point. I also feel like Elyse is winning the arguement with you, but the better arguer isn't always town so meh.

Elyse's 1450 alone is very scummy though. When did mathblade become anything even close to confirmed scum? How can you be that confident after tunneling town (Hoopla) all of Day 3? It's clearly fake confidence which means one of three things:
1) Elyse is bussing Math
2) Elyse is scum trying to lynch town Math for the win
3) Elyse is town who is using persuasion tools to manipulate the rest of town.

So I could probably vote Elyse for the above.

Math, I think we threw away no lynching when we started discussing things today. It's pretty obvious the NK will be one of two people who I won't name on the off chance I'm wrong and we still no lynch. Either way I don't think no lynching gives us any info now.

Elyse, if you want me to vote Math over you, sell me on why Math is such obvscum. I don't see it. Am I just dumb?

Unvote

[Wingback]

How is Elyse "winning the argument" exactly? I want to know your thought process here because I want to make sure I'm absolutely comfortable with you-town before proceeding.

I've laid out why Math is scum. I'll give you a short summary:

1. Math's over-reaction to my Hoopla hammer.
2. Math saying that Elyse and Hoopla are of the "same alignment." This is a ridiculous argument that I can't imagine town making but does make sense as scum to set up false associatives. Even if Math says that Elyse is bussing Hoopla (which is an absurd stretch), saying that Elyse is town if Hoopla is town is even more of a stretch and reads like Math wanting to clear her partner after mislynching Hoopla.
3. Math saying that you and me are scum and voting no lynch, and then out of nowhere, showing up to vote Elyse. Most of her play this game has been of the minimal "caught-scum-trying-to-plant-false-leads" type. There's a noticeable drop in activity level and pushes and it fits with the classic 2 scum mylo/lylo where you don't necessarily need to be townread but have to convince everyone that some townie is your partner.
4. Meta-experience. This fits with Math's scumgame and I'm not just claiming "meta" and leaving it at that. I explained exactly why if you look at the walls I've written.

Who is your best guess for an Elyse partner?

[Elyse]

@Elyse, if Math is so obvscum, why aren't you voting Math?

I'm withholding my vote so I can hammer any wagon that gets to L-1 that's not mine

confirmed herself as scum

VOTE: Elyse

Agreed. Will figure out which of Wingback/Egg tomorrow is scum.

VOTE: Elyse

THIS WAS A JOKE

omg

VOTE: MathBlade

What happened to Wingback scum MathBlade?

@Egg

As I said earlier don't see Hiplop and Elyse being scum together.

Your opening posts were all geared towards showing us how Elyse and Hoopla were cross-bussing so no, that's not what you said earlier.

Can't keep your story straight I see.

This is why MathBlade is basically confscum.

They spent the entire day saying that Hoopla and I are scum together and then randomly decided that they didn't see us as scum together. They know they're going down and want to take me down with them.

Which is why lynching ME over them is ridiculous because their plan all along was clearly to get me lynched first. And now it's coming to fruition. I mean look at that switch from "Wingback is scum" to voting me when it looks like I'll be the lynch.

It mostly pisses me off that the reason town is going to lose is because Wingback either genuinely thinks that Egg won't lynch me or he's scum and made that idea up in order to get me lynched today and win the game without having to go up against me in LyLo.

[Wingback]

You never responded to my point that as scum, I don't need Egg for anything. I don't need to make stuff up about how Egg won't vote you when I'd happily vote no lynch and once in 5P, allow KTS or BBMolla to quickvote you before hammering. Like if I was scum, I pretty much already have a path to victory so I'm confused about why you think I'm making up stuff about Egg not voting you.

You still never re-evaluated Egg. Your entire post to him is simply trying to persuade him because you think he'll be easier to sway than me who have mostly made up my mind, and not of actually trying to read his motivations. If your biggest reason for townreading Egg was his Hoopla push and him voting Hoopla over Grendel, you should have re-evaluated that and at the very least, came up with new reasons for townreading him.

[Elyse]

You're right. I still haven't responded to your giant walls.

I think banking on BB or kts is riskier than you're making it out to be. People can change their minds on a dime. The best move for any scumteam today is to lynch me.

My townread on Egg is certainly weakened after Hoopla's townflip, but I find his reaching out to me and asking to explain Math obvscum very townie. If he was scum with Math his choices are probably only me and Math today. There's no reason for him to even pretend to be considering voting Math when he could easily vote me and win because we have you and kts tying the noose around my neck as we speak.

[Wingback]

BBMolla has been calling Elyse/Mathblade team since the middle of D3 and never changed. KTS never removed his vote from you on D3 and was the first to vote you today. If not both of them, it's a pretty safe bet at least one of them would. No, the best move for a scumteam if Molla/KTS/Elyse are all town is to no lynch. If we no lynched early on in the day, providing content would have been completely unnecessary.

If Egg saying he'll vote you but asking for a case on Mathblade is townie, then you are stretching to a ridiculous amount to find any small straw to call him town and keep him as an ally. You still haven't tried to read him in the slightest. If he's scum with Math, why wouldn't he just wait for me or BBMolla to vote before hammering? His post reads as null to me.

[Wingback]

I'm asking you to show me where I'm going wrong if you are town but you are not doing that in the slightest. I asked you what you thought of Egg and you haven't tried to read him or re-read his posts at all, simply content to appeal to him which doesn't strike me as town motivated at all.

[Wingback]

And I find it hilarious that your response to Egg about why you are so sure Math was scum is a post that

I

made which while indicative of Math not being able to keep their story straight isn't some sort of "scumslip" as you are making it out to be. The supreme confidence feels more like you are grasping at whatever you can to bus your partner and I don't honestly believe you think that's a slip.

[Elyse]

Ok??

[Elyse]

Also idk why you're acting like the optimal play here for me is to bus my buddy MathBlade.

Let's say I get them lynched today. What does that buy me? Hmmm nothing considering everyone thinks I'm scum with him anyway.

If I was scum with MathBlade I'd "reevaluate Egg" and try to get him lynched.

[Wingback]

I've already outlined what I think was the optimal play for scum-Elyse in my two walls at the beginning of the day. Bus Math for towncred. Kill BBMolla and KTS. Set up an Egg/Wingback/Elyse lylo given Egg and I were going after each other.

Once I threw a wrench in your plans by doing an about-turn on you, your optimal play then became the (slightly less optimal) play of Elyse vs Wingback in LYLO with Egg casting the deciding vote. That necessitates that you look as good as possible during the Mathblade lynch so you're pushing her with all sorts of stretchy reasons but with a whole lot of conviction "Mathblade is definitely scum for a non-existent slip, how could you guys lynch me!! Wing and Math are scum guys!"

You need Egg on your side so you absolutely refuse to re-evaluate him. You never even bother trying to figure out his alignment because he's not set on you but I am.

You most likely cannot get Egg lynched by "re-evaluating" him. You just don't have the numbers (BBMolla, KTS, and I are all scumreading you). You blow your shot and Egg turns against you so that doesn't work out. You are playing this EXACTLY like I would expect a scum-you to play. Buddying Egg. Stretching to call him town. Insisting that Math and I are scum and pushing your buddy first.

[Egg]

Wing, you're throwing around a lot of words and Elyse did a good job of showing that and addressing anything you may have had on her. As far as your Math case, I chalk most of that up to personality, but #3 is pretty good. And for a best guess, I choose not to answer because why help scum with their NK. I'll vote when I have my mind made up and I'll keep the partner speculation to myself.

THIS WAS A JOKE

omg

I actually didn't realize that lol.

This is why MathBlade is basically confscum.They spent the entire day saying that Hoopla and I are scum together and then randomly decided that they didn't see us as scum together. They know they're going down and want to take me down with them.Which is why lynching ME over them is ridiculous because their plan all along was clearly to get me lynched first. And now it's coming to fruition. I mean look at that switch from "Wingback is scum" to voting me when it looks like I'll be the lynch.

Hmm. Sure, maybe, but confirmed scum? You don't really believe that. You might like your case and maybe even not be willing to hear another option for today, but confirmed? No.

It mostly pisses me off that the reason town is going to lose

^That feels genuine though. I might need to skim some Elyse LYLO games.

You never responded to my point that as scum, I don't need Egg for anything. I don't need to make stuff up about how Egg won't vote you when I'd happily vote no lynch and once in 5P, allow KTS or BBMolla to quickvote you before hammering. Like if I was scum, I pretty much already have a path to victory so I'm confused about why you think I'm making up stuff about Egg not voting you.

But for that to work, you'd have to NK me which would surely raise red flags. Like say we no lynch and you NK molla for example. Then we lynch your buddy (let's assume mathblade because Elyse's scenario requires she and I to be town I believe). For killthestory to be there to quick vote, you have to NK me. I don't think you'd be able to win that WIFOM battle of why I died over killthestory. Use BBMolla instead and it's even worse for you because he's thinking "holy shit killthestory and egg died before me, wtf happened?". If you are scum, getting your town cred or a win today makes just as much sense, if not more, than what you are trying to push as being a sure thing (no lynching). Hell, Elyse and Math can't both be scum with you so if you are scum you clearly have a shot of lynching town by proposing that team today which is a quicker path to victory.

The best move for any scumteam today is to lynch me.

^See, this doesn't feel like fake scum AtE either...

the best move for a scumteam if Molla/KTS/Elyse

I feel like if you believed that, you'd be pushing Math and myself as scum for voting no lynch rather than Elyse and Math. Or at the very least considering it. Having your mind made up is dangerous if you are town, but could also be scum...

Elyse vs Wingback in LYLO with Egg casting the deciding vote. 

Oh God, no. Don't let that happen lol.

[Egg]

Ok, I didn't want to get into town reads and scum pairs but...

Maybe mathblade is the best lynch and here's why.

I think most of us are assuming killthestory is town. Bbmolla maybe too (but can someone remind me why?)

If those things are true, we are left with (from my point of view):
Elyse/Wing in a weird pointless cross bus
Elyse/math
Wing/math

So either math is scum or Elyse and wing decided getting into a pissing match as scum together made more sense than just lynching mathtown.

So if someone can show me why BBMolla is town, you might have my vote for math.

[Wingback]

@Egg;
1) Where did Elyse do a good job of addressing what I said? I'd like to see some specific examples so I can see where you are coming from.
2) Even if I no-lynched and nk'd one of BBMolla/KTS, that still leaves the other to vote Elyse in 5P LYLO in the scenario that I'm scum with Mathblade so that doesn't make any sense.
3) I actually AM considering Math and you as possible scum. I don't like one bit of your play today. You've been sitting on the fence pretty hard in those last few posts of yours. The only reason I'm more confident on Elyse is that for some reason, she's ignoring all of that and just appealing to you like she doesn't give a damn about your alignment and just wants to suck up to you. I'm trying to dissuade her from doing that if she's town and encourage her to assess your alignment so I can solidify reads on both of you and feel more confident.
4) Your wanting to lynch Math contradicts your previous post of not wanting Elyse/Egg/Wingback lylo because that's exactly what will happen if we lynch Mathblade and no offense but I don't really trust any one person to make the right decision here, and you haven't given me any reason yet to think you'd be accurate.
5) This is mylo so it's absolutely essential that you give your reads. That post reads more like you want an excuse for not posting your reads. I don't care what it might tell scum. I want to figure out if they are genuine.
6) Why do you care if most of us are assuming KTS and BBMolla are town? What's

your

read on them?

[Wingback]

No, I don't want your vote for Math. I want you to take firm, concrete stances on every player in the game. None of that "Math could be scum with either Elyse or Wingback" fence-sitting.

[Wingback]

I'm hotly debating which of Elyse or Egg are Mathblade's partner. Lynching Mathblade and getting to 3P is a pretty sure recipe for a loss given they won't vote each other.

I don't want to lynch Mathblade today. I want to lynch whichever of them is the partner. Then the auto-lynch on Mathblade ends the game.

Elyse, if you are town here, I really, really need you to look at Egg's posts and give your read on him in as much depth as you can. If you keep sucking up to him and calling him town for no reason and we wind up losing and he's scum, I'm putting this loss on you.