Newbie 1732 [Game Over!]: InnocentVille

[shannon]

I try not to do sarcasm here because it's hard enough to judge intention and interpret people's tones without adding layers to it.

[PenguinPower]

Sorry for the lack of activity this weekend. Putting on a kid's Tri and it's taking more than I thought. I will catch up either tonight or first thing in the morning at the latest.

[Jibs]

Hello all.

I've reread most of the game now (up to page 11.)

I have to say, Chrimi's af+pp association is solid. If pp flips scum at some point, af looks bad. For example, af's readlist in 277 lets pp off the hook for this post:

Yet you answered AstralFlare's question to "why aren't you voting?" with "Chrimi's at L-2 and the IC says we shouldn't vote her until there's a vote count."

He brought up my comment in 147, which I was addressing. At that time, the only reason I wasn't voting you

was

because of what the IC said. Up until 175 that was still the case.

Between 147 and now there have been a few things that have made me rethink my positions, which also include my position on you.

...I don't think Chrimi posted anything alignment indicative between 175 and 207. Af seems to otherwise attack this sort of reevaluation, so this seems out of place. (Note that pp does explain his reevaluation--but only

after

af's readpost).

Of course, without pp's flip, af is still town.

I don't think it makes sense to scumread af over an association, and I don't really understand the rest of Chrimi's case on af.

Rereading is making me like shannon a little more--that's just a gut read, I don't really have a good reason for it. I didn't notice all of her posts the first time through.

I don't quite understand why people seem to be clearing Rocnix. My recent posts maybe exaggerate my suspicions, but I think posts like this

My vote will stay on 0x40

since he's not really at risk of being lynched

and I would like to hear more from him.

(my bold) indicate a scum mindset--like she's afraid of being called out for her vote.

I don't know what to make of imp solving the game with five-and-a-half (count 'em) town reads...

I think I'm starting to get a better handle on reads this game. I actually think Rocnix's push on me was somewhat town and her backing off has cemented that it looks to me like it's coming from a genuine interest in finding scum. AF is still town, Jibs is still town, 0x40 is likely town. Chrimi is moderately townish at this point as well I think, or at the very least the way she's been playing the game is enough for me to not really be interested in lynching her today. shannon still has a little bit of towncred but we'll see how the game plays out because I'm not confident on her in any capacity yet. Penguin/tne are where I think I'll focus my efforts for a bit unless I see good reason to look elsewhere. I am interested in what tne was looking at with respect to shannon.

...and then not really following up(?) (My quote is a bit unfair, but I think my point still stands.) For af and Chrimi who seem to feel that imp was "fence sitting", have you checked his meta? I haven't but it seems like a reasonable thing to do, no?

Tne needs to explain how she cleared shannon and also post some awesome reads that crack this game open and send scum running with terror.

0x40 is still town for me, although a bit less than he was. Rereading the thread made him seem more reasonable, but it sure felt like he lost interest in finding scum after he started getting townread (by imp, me, af). I don't want to read too much into this because he could just be getting bored with the game, regardless of alignment.

That brings me to my final point--I'm pretty sure this is my last game of forum mafia. It eats up a lot of time and energy, but it doesn't provide what I got from face-to-face Avalon. Nothing against you guys, you've all been great, but I'm pretty tired of this game.

[Chrimi]

VOTE: AstralFlare Refuse to participate and you'll fail to sway my vote.

How am I refusing to participate? I'm not defending myself from your case, yes, but I'm participating in other ways. I see more value for town in doing this rather than pointlessly defending myself.

Suit yourself.

[innocentvillager]

	VOTECOUNT 1.3
Player	Being voted by (in chronological order)	Number of Votes
1. Jibs	shannon	1
2. AstralFlare	Chrimi	1
3. PenguinPower
4. 0x40	thenewearth	1
5. Rocnix	PenguinPower	1
6. Chrimi	0x40	1
7. thenewearth	AstralFlare, Rocnix, implosion	3
8. shannon
9. implosion

Not voting: Jibs

Deadline to lynch is in (expired on 2016-08-21 21:23:28).

With 9 eligible to vote, it's 5 to lynch

Please let me know if there are errors in the VC, or have any other questions in general. Don't forget to bold such requests to me.

[implosion]

That brings me to my final point--I'm pretty sure this is my last game of forum mafia. It eats up a lot of time and energy, but it doesn't provide what I got from face-to-face Avalon. Nothing against you guys, you've all been great, but I'm pretty tired of this game.

Yeah - it is a very, very different beast. I also played a lot of face-to-face resistance with my college friend group, and it is a lot more of a sort of direct mindscrew where nothing makes any sense and you have to gauge things in the moment as a resistance member, or you have to focus on not giving behavioral tells as a spy. Forum mafia gives a different kind of thrill for me - because of all of the effort, it's a lot more rewarding to have been correct about a divisive read as town, or to fool a town as scum. It is really easy for it to get tiring.

If anyone is interested in my town meta, one excellent little piece of it is a large normal that I just completed that shannon was in. By two real-life days into the game, I had 11 townreads out of the 18 other players in the game.

This game is starting to stall out a tad - we'll see after the weekend if it's just because of schedules, or because different people are waiting on more posts from specific players, or other reasons. Hopefully it's just that people in this game are more active on weekdays.

[AstralFlare]

Hello all.
Rereading is making me like shannon a little more--that's just a gut read, I don't really have a good reason for it. I didn't notice all of her posts the first time through.

This I can agree with.

I don't quite understand why people seem to be clearing Rocnix. My recent posts maybe exaggerate my suspicions, but I think posts like this

My vote will stay on 0x40

since he's not really at risk of being lynched

and I would like to hear more from him.

(my bold) indicate a scum mindset--like she's afraid of being called out for her vote.

I like her vote behind TNE, and I think the same logic can be extended to why it's on 0x40.

Tne needs to explain how she cleared shannon and also post some awesome reads that crack this game open and send scum running with terror.

^

That brings me to my final point--I'm pretty sure this is my last game of forum mafia. It eats up a lot of time and energy, but it doesn't provide what I got from face-to-face Avalon. Nothing against you guys, you've all been great, but I'm pretty tired of this game.

It's not for everyone. My first time here was pretty rough too, but I'm getting a much bigger kick out of it this time! Play whatever you like best, but I for one hope you stick around. :p

[AstralFlare]

If anyone is interested in my town meta, one excellent little piece of it is a large normal that I just completed that shannon was in. By two real-life days into the game, I had 11 townreads out of the 18 other players in the game.

This game is starting to stall out a tad - we'll see after the weekend if it's just because of schedules, or because different people are waiting on more posts from specific players, or other reasons. Hopefully it's just that people in this game are more active on weekdays.

Eh. I don't like this post. For one thing you're cherry picking a game for us to look at, where you've had a reasonably good prediction rate, at least for this early in the game. For another thing you're appealing to ethos. Sure, you might be correct this game as well, but it's different players and a different setup now.

I'll definitely take another look at your meta when I have time, but over there you come off way more declarative. Just look at the average post lengths, for example.

And yeah, I'm mainly waiting for TNE.

[shannon]

Agree re: Implosion's most recent post, I don't like the appeal to our just-finished game. It was a very different game from this one, it had 19 players and an unknown setup, and it was full of very strong characters and completely rubbish gambits and hundreds of pages wasted on utter tosh. I was unsure how to interact with it in the early stages, it just seemed too big to me, I'd wake up to tens of pages every morning. (My disengagement didn't serve me well in the late game, when no one really listened to/cared about my thoughts because I'd been deliberately useless early on - lesson to town, always participate). This game is nothing like that!

I think it's really helpful to see the votes in list format, it makes connections a bit clearer.

We have Chrimi on AF, AF on TNE ,TNE on 0x40, and 0x40 on Chrimi in a round-robin of OMGUS and early game grudges. I think one of our scum is here, waiting for the point when *fine*, if town demands it, they'll abandon their grudge and vote on a popular wagon. So I need to ask who's doing the most to keep this thing going?

Rocnix and Implosion are also on TNE. I can't see why TNE is scummier than any of the others in the Alt Drama Squad. Rocnix says she's there because TNE isn't participating 297. From what I can tell, TNE's entire gameplay is Alt Drama Squad stuff and then supposed tunneling of me. So OK, I can see that. Implosion gives roughly the same reason in 296. I'm not sure whether I buy it entirely. Something about Implosion's phrasing, 'ironically join the wagon', throws me off. I need to see how this develops once TNE rejoins the game.

Jibs, why aren't you voting?

[thenewearth]

I'll do stuff in 2-3 hours

Net is bullshit right now and I'm waaaaaayyy too lazy

[PenguinPower]

I'll do stuff in 2-3 hours

Net is bullshit right now and I'm waaaaaayyy too lazy

I'll be more serious after I'm done doing my shit

brb prod dodging

You keep saying that while we are now more than halfway through Day 1. It's a scummy thing to do to draw town close to deadline before they lynch, right? That's what derailed my first newbie game, ending in a scum win. I'll be back to check in 2-3 hours to see if you have posted anything...

[AstralFlare]

We have Chrimi on AF, AF on TNE ,TNE on 0x40, and 0x40 on Chrimi in a round-robin of OMGUS and early game grudges. I think one of our scum is here

Why do you think scum is there? Last I checked, you had Chrimi and I as town, and PP and implosion who aren't in the round robin as null. Assuming your first scumread is Jibs, what makes you so quick to discount PP and implosion, and so confident that it's either TNE or 0x40 as second scum?

[thenewearth]

Ya'll are reading waaay to into texts btw

[thenewearth]

So basically what's happening is

0x40 is tunneling the weakest player right now, chrimi

His reasons are beyond mortality and stuff and is setting up an easy lynch for a weak scumread. At least that's how I see it

[thenewearth]

Also can ya'll stop wall-text'ing?

Nobody likes reading walls of text unless its a good book. And gents this isn't a book I'd buy for 2 US Dollars on the book surplus shop

[thenewearth]

Why I was voting shannon?

Simple:
1) Echooooooo
2) Tone of half-heartly agreeing to a case 0x40 did on Chrimi. Again, coinciding with how I was, and still am, scumreading 0x40

Though at least Shannon is acting town lately for reasons I'm never gonna give out because that's pretty stupid for me to do

Also #164 was a complete 180 to #51

Could be bussing but its a newbie game sooooooooooo fuck that.

[thenewearth]

I mean seriously how hard is it to make reasons for someone to be scum with about less than 10 lines?

Like... holy shit I ain't reading a 600 word essay just to pick out 10 significant words.

P.S. As for my town reads? Lmao fuck that :>

[PenguinPower]

So...you were too busy, and needed 2-3 hours, to basically say that 0x40 is scum because he's tunneling your subjectively-called weakest player, Chrimi; and, that shannon is town because you said so but will never tell us. Oh and screw providing your town reads because...yeah...

Solid reasoning...thanks for your contributions...you have definitely helped town out here.

[thenewearth]

Yeah because making it easier for scum to NK the towniest player is the greatest contribution

bzzt

[Chrimi]

We have Chrimi on AF, AF on TNE ,TNE on 0x40, and 0x40 on Chrimi in a round-robin of OMGUS and early game grudges. I think one of our scum is here, waiting for the point when *fine*, if town demands it, they'll abandon their grudge and vote on a popular wagon. So I need to ask who's doing the most to keep this thing going?

If you think my vote is OMGUS, you need to read my case over again.

[Chrimi]

Yeah because making it easier for scum to NK the towniest player is the greatest contribution

bzzt

But as long as you continue contributing a shitty amount, scum doesn't need to kill you because you won't be helping out.

The goal of this game isn't to live longer than the rest of town, it's to kill the scum.

VOTE: thenewearth

Yes, AF is still scum.

[PenguinPower]

Yeah because making it easier for scum to NK the towniest player is the greatest contribution

bzzt

You're the only one not discussing the other people, so your lack of content in that regard doesn't do much. However, you are the only one not discussing other people or providing any sort of rationale for your read on 0x40 besides his tunneling, which is weak rationale on its own, and that does hurt the town.

Keep on lurking, delaying, and providing little to no content. That helps.

p-edit

is that L-1?

[0x40]

is that L-1?

It is. Some VIs can't even bother to announce when their vote puts someone at L-1 apparently.

[0x40]

she isn't a VI. She's playing fine.

Do you still think she's not a VI? Is putting someone at L-1 without declaring that it's L-1 something that players that know how to play the game would do?

Do you not consider this to have anything to do with policy lynching?

I don't think that lynching a VI for being a VI would be a policy lynch unless that was the primary reason.

[Jibs]

Hello folks.

Shannon, I'm not voting because I wasn't sure whether tne was at L-1, and now she is, so I'm still not voting.

Tne, I'm a little confused.

Why I was voting shannon?

Simple:
1) Echooooooo
2) Tone of half-heartly agreeing to a case 0x40 did on Chrimi. Again, coinciding with how I was, and still am, scumreading 0x40

Though at least Shannon is acting town lately for reasons I'm never gonna give out because that's pretty stupid for me to do

Also #164 was a complete 180 to #51

Are you saying that 164 made shannon look more scum or more town? I don't understand how it could be alignment indicative in any way--it's clear that shannon made 51 with the intent to post something like 164 later, but that doesn't say anything about her alignment.

I'm also dubious of the reasons you are never going to give out, but I agree that talking about this stuff usually helps scum more than town, even though the cat is kinda out of the bag at this point.