California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[Talitha]

I just wanted to add, for Gaspar's benefit, that I'm not ignoring his quasi-question.. just want to hear from another player before I address it.

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

6 to lynch.

the silent speaker: 1 (Gaspar)

[Gaspar]

I think if Foolinc is scum, then there are two scum groups, or else Logictus was killed by a vig.

I'm not sure why you think Logic would have been targeted by a Vig. No vig in their right mind would shoot a claimed Mason like that.
The "two scumgroups" bit is interesting, given Tally's earlier statement/conclusion that multiple kills was likely a result of multiple scumgroups.

IH - if foolinc is scum do you think there's a doc in this game that hasn't claimed? If so... why do you think they didn't protect logicticus?

Kind of makes no sense.

This is quite a turnaround from just a handful of posts ago, when you were voting Foolinc. Reason?
Also, IH is implying with the two scumgroups or a vig thing that Logic would have been targeted by multiple kills, meaning Doc protection on him would have failed.

[Setael]

You must have missed this post:

I suppose there could be a mafia roleblocker. It is weird that foolinc hasn't been counterclaimed if he's lying. If there's a real doc out there who hasn't counterclaimed in order to stay hidden, that real doc would've protected logicticus. *sigh* I still don't believe superstition as a reason, but I'll let it go for now.

unvote

If someone is targeted by more than one person, does the doc protect fail?

Does anyone else believe the "superstition" answer?

[IH]

I'm not sure why you think Logic would have been targeted by a Vig. No vig in their right mind would shoot a claimed Mason like that.
The "two scumgroups" bit is interesting, given Tally's earlier statement/conclusion that multiple kills was likely a result of multiple scumgroups.

Actually it could be another SK.

If Foolinc is scum there HAS to be another killing group, because they'd surely know about Foolinc. They'd want to keep Logictus alive, because that would implicate Foolinc too much.

So, IF Foolinc is scum that means that there is another killer other than whatever group Foolinc is in.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Busy weekend, did not realize we had started again. Placeholder post to aviod (I hope replacement), will go through the events later today or tomorrow. More later y'all. Ta.

[Setael]

I've seen no reason to change my suspicions of DP and IH, though I was obviously wrong about Tamuz and I don't know what to think about foolinc. Both DP and IH have pretty much ignored my suspicions of them.

vote: IH

, DP, everyone else, no lynch, me

[IH]

Setael could you direct me to where your suspicions were by either Post number, link, or reposting them? Thanks in advance.

[Setael]

Posts 1447, 1517, 1548

You're welcome

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

been cramming for midterms, I will post something much more concrete at a later time.

Very annoyed with the NL, wondering what I have to do to kickstart this game.

demand more activity from some of our less vocal members, don't like the direction we are heading in.

[Gaspar]

Pooky brings up a really good point.


I'd like to hear DP respond to Saetel, as he promised to "pick [her attacks on him] apart" today.

I'd also like to hear more concrete input from Sarcastro and TSS (still).



I'd be up for wagoning some fools and forcing some claims right about now. If there are three Parisian Mafiates left, we're only a single mislynch removed from LyLo, potentially. Like Pooky said, yesterday's No-Lynch was pretty terrible, and there are a lot of people who seem to be content sitting on the sidelines and watching. The more I think about it, the more it bothers me... minus points for TSS, Zindie, Sarc, and DP. Consequently, it's time for a Condorcet update:

Unvote
Vote: the silent speaker

, Zindaras, DP, Talitha, Sarcastro, Foolinc, Saetel, Pooky, IH, No Lynch, Gaspar

[Gaspar]

EBWOP: Pooky, where were *YOU* at the end of the day yesterday? Were you keeping an eye on the game? If not, why are you claiming the need to be responsible for "kickstarting the game"? If so, why did you not try to secure a lynch somewhere?

[Sarcastro]

Bah, I am having so much trouble with this game. I realise that isn't a valid excuse for not participating much, but I've got to say something.

I kind of just want to lynch Gaspar. I'm not entirely sure why.

To be honest, I'm a bit surprised I haven't been lynched yet, considering how poorly I've been playing.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Midterms

[Gaspar]

I kind of just want to lynch Gaspar. I'm not entirely sure why.

Oh My God, I Suck.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and i really dont get this condorcet crap.

can we please try to get a lynch the normal way and pretend this condorcet stuff doesn't exist?

[Gaspar]

Now *that* I can agree with.



Let's start with TSS.

[IH]

When this was suggested earlier, an attack was made.

What has suddenly changed your minds? (See day 1)

Setael I will respond to your attacks soon.

[the silent speaker]

Run that by me again, Gaspar? In what way am I "content sitting on the sidelines and watching" when I've been in the game for all of three days, and one of them was a Saturday?
If Gaspar is scum, this list probably represents him distancing from his scum buddies by listing them with a few innocents, thus getting him the best of both worlds: if his list is followed, he sees to it that the people who go first are the townies (viz. my place on top of the list) and inters the people who must die toward the bottom; or if his list is not followed and his buddies are killed, he's on record as listing them as top suspects. Accordingly,

if

Gaspar is scum, almost certainly at least one and quite probably two out of Zindaras, DP or Sarc are scum with him. If Gaspar is town, obviously nothing is said about the other three.

This caught me eye:

Not necessarily foolinc, as it seems we have 2 scum groups. The scum would probably know from the size of their group that there's likely another family out there.

By itself, not noteworthy; I took it to mean that the fact of two kills suggests two killing groups. But then Talitha elaborates:

Well, this is totally hypothetical, but if I were in a scum group of 3 people and my group name was Parisian mafia, and in a game this size... would I not conclude that there was very likely another group?

Here she not only assumes a group of specifically three, but she connects the scums' posited suspicion to the name of the group. That is a much more dramatic leap than the one she made previously, and casts both statements under a much blacker light.
And then this makes it even worse:

I still maintain that a scum group, who know how many members they have,

what their abilities are

, etc, would have a decent idea of whether there are other killing groups in the game.

I see no mention of abilities.

How does Talitha know the scum group has abilities?

IH rightly called her on this last. Cogito, now Setael, agreed with Talitha that a scum team of three should know there's another (for the record, I agree that a scum team of three should at least be concerned of the possibility of another group, but the assumption of a scum group of three is Talitha's and hers alone. Yet CES quotes it as if it were fact.)

Pooky stated that he believed her, and foolinc asked Pooky why. This is pro-townish on foolinc's part, IMO. Let the record show that Pooky does not seem to have answered this question.

Interestingly, it was Sarc, Talitha and Pooky who spearheaded the LML lynch. Sarc noted the capitalization, but did not mention that Lee capitalized "could" in the same post; Talitha was first to bring up a connection between "lace" and poison (not specifying what, btw -- though one can lace a drink with poison, there is also the connection of Arsenic and Old Lace. However, as I suspect that Lee was the type of poisoner-role whose kills are delayed, it follows that he had killed xyzzy the night before, his use of the word was purely coincidental, and the only conceivable relevance this might have is in Talitha's own vagueness allowing other players to draw their own conclusions and believe they had drawn hers; and that is rather too attenuated to be a basis for suspicion in its own right.) Pooky was the one who first pressed Lee hard on the question because he was "very concerned" about this coincidence.

A god bit later, Talitha wrote:

It wasn't desperation, it was just my way of saying that I am not going to get upset and go full-on defending myself right now, because i just don't have the energy to spare.

Sound familiar? Compare with IH's observation on LoudmouthLee:

First off, it looks like Lee is panicked. I rarely see the statement "There's no other way I can defend myself, I didn't do it!" from anyone but a newbie player. Why this choice of words? We know that Lee.

(I'm comparing Talitha's reaction with LML's, not IH's, obv.)

oh, and by the way, IH:

I was actually stating about a nightkill as well.

I know, but the point is the same. The nightkill part of your post reduces to, "If foolinc was town, scum would have killed him by now. Since scum haven't killed him, obviously foolinc is scum!" My point remains irrespective of the means by which foolinc didn't die.

Provisional condorcet: Talitha, Pooky, Setael, Gaspar, [Zindaras, Sarc, DP], IH, foolinc, but I'm still not firm enough in my convictions to cast any bold text.

[IH]

...... so why is that provisional? I'm not sure what the advantage is. It's like withholding a vote outside of lylo.

[Talitha]

TSS: What a load of baloney.

Just for starters -

When I am talking about hypotheticals to illustrate a point, HOW does does that translate into me making assumptions???

I DON'T know that the scum have abilities. I know that the SCUM KNOW if they have abilities, and THAT was the POINT.

Furthermore I have been scum in many games and I challenge anyone to find a game where I slipped up and mentioned how many scum were in my group, or did anything REMOTELY like that.

Besides, I was under the impression we were assuming there were four scum. Am I wrong?

[foolinc]

TSS: What a load of baloney.

Just for starters -

When I am talking about hypotheticals to illustrate a point, HOW does does that translate into me making assumptions???

I DON'T know that the scum have abilities. I know that the SCUM KNOW if they have abilities, and THAT was the POINT.

Furthermore I have been scum in many games and I challenge anyone to find a game where I slipped up and mentioned how many scum were in my group, or did anything REMOTELY like that.

Besides, I was under the impression we were assuming there were four scum. Am I wrong?

I'm getting the same sort of vibes from this post as LML's posts in response to the lace argument. Maybe it's just the all caps words, but something seems odd to me.

[Talitha]

It looks odd to me too when I read it now. I was exhausted and grouchy.

[Zindaras]

Lynching MBL or Logicticus would have given us a lot more information. I've basically been everybody's second-place Condorcet throw-in. Had you even expressed suspicion of me before the last minute of yesterday?

That wasn't the point. I looked at the stuff I got from Grey's site, and I thought I could lynch you, and not anyone else. It said that there was a tie between MBL and you. I was already voting MBL, so I couldn't get him any higher, so I went for next best, which was you.

Zindy: I would not say that a traitor role is "extremely rare". I have seen it in mith and DP games before. And can you please explain the "unbalanced" comment further? I don't understand how one role on its own could be considered unbalanced without knowing all the other roles in the game.

Ah, you're thinking Traitor. I thought you were thinking Recruiter.

[Gaspar]

Run that by me again, Gaspar? In what way am I "content sitting on the sidelines and watching" when I've been in the game for all of three days, and one of them was a Saturday?

That's re: Your most recent predecessor, MBL. I've already explained why I feel his "contributions" feel forced, insincere, or otherwise shady. I trust by now you've read my case against him?


It's no fault of your own (as of now, anyway)... Adele and MBL have pretty much convinced me that you, collectively, are scum.