Mini 499: Just Your typical Mafia Game GAME OVER!!!!!!!!

[somestrangeflea]

Ssf - humm. So my vote was the most suspicious because i pushed a point that turned out to be false, right, which was that his claim was probably not a role in a normal mini?

Not once did I say "most suspicious". I stand by the point that it is a slight scumtell if you push something which turns out to be wrong. Of course, town makes mistakes too, which is why it's only a slight scumtell...

Nobody else's reasoning was as faulty as that?

Not sure what you're getting at...

Mod Edit

Vote Count

cicero- 1 (Skruffs)
White- 1 (HackerHuck)

Not Voting- 7 (ChocolateAttack, cicero, pwayne66, shaka!!, somestrangeflea, theopor_COD, White)

5 to lynch

[pwayne66]

Pwayne-
Are you asking me if i am the vig???

No.

I am more just curious why you side with cicero and gorgon on a lot of issues and were trying to lynch the one person who was publicly suspicious of the known scum rather than saying ' wow, skruffs was right about something.'

I don't get this... first, what issues do I side with Gorgon and Cicero with? Second, who are you talking about that we were trying to lynch? Third, you were suspicious of at least 7 players. 5 that you voted for and two that you never voted for. You get no praise from me for being right when the odds were that you would be.

And finally and must importantly, do you think that stating suspicion of a player, then voting for 5 other players is suspicious? When that players turns out to be scum, should people ask questions about it? If so, why are you threatening to OMGUS me for doing what I am doing?

One of the reasons I'm also adding Cicero to the mix is because of the way you were so nervous about a possible lynch-2 on Cicero early on in the game. Somethign about yoru reactions to him was very strange.

I don't remember cicero being at lynch -2, let alone being nervous about it. I do remember BM's case against him and defending him. If I am wrong, please point it out to me.

Also, while you thought P Guppy was likely town (Cicero was also suggesting the same) when he was acting very scummy, you have changed yoru mind when I replaced in, someone who (supposedly) is more experienced and a better player.

This is inaccurate. You suggest that it was your subbing in that caused me to change my mind. This isn't true (I'm not sure how you could think that it is) I have stated very clearly why I suspect you and what triggered this suspicion.

But both of your opinions of me have remained identical through the game. You bhoth thought P Guppy was likely town, just a douche, and you both are suggesting I Was distancing from a scumbuddy, today.

True. Again, I think the distancing question deserves to be asked. It really is you subsequent reactions that cause me to keep pushing it. You just now got around to dropping the victim act long enough to address the real allegation.

However, what's really strange is that two other people who were TOWN were also suspicious of Gorgon yesterday. They could NOT have been distancing from him - right? So why would you therefore say that I am? Presumably, if any of them were alive, you would be saying the same thing about the two ot them, right?

I would have asked (like I did you), maybe voted for them (like I did you). I would have expected them to answer my questions and understand that suspicion is par for the course. If they could handle their shite, and answer the suspicions, I probably would have dropped it and moved on.

[cicero]

Not to be tunnel-visioned but in the absence of anything else to go on, and since one half of my AlyG was nut scummy analysis from the beginning of the game came true, I'm putting my vote back in a predictable place. I think my case against flea is better than anyone else's case against anyone else at this point.

vote: somestrangeflea

[HackerHuck]

Also consider replacing Theopor.

Prodding Theo and ChocolateAttack

Unfortunately, I just had to replace Theo in a newbie game since his access has become incredibly limited.

I really don't like how you are focusing on it, in any case.

OK, now you're trying to strawman me a bit. I certainly was not focusing on it by any means. I made mention of it in my very first post and

you

have brought up the subject again.

I find it very interesting that Pwayne has now gone out of his way to hunt scum. I'm not sure if he's reacting to my case because he's scum or because he's town and realises that we need to hunt scum. Let's say that the jury is still out...

[pwayne66]

I find it very interesting that Pwayne has now gone out of his way to hunt scum. I'm not sure if he's reacting to my case because he's scum or because he's town and realises that we need to hunt scum. Let's say that the jury is still out...

[sarcasm]But doubtlessly it was because of you...thanks HH![/sarcasm off]

[ChocolateAttack]

i got my prod, i post sometime later today. i been busy with my school lately.

[Skruffs]

Sorry HackerHuck
I mean tot say
"I don't like how you seem to be going against the obvious in saying there may not be an SK". It strokes me as something mafia would do or something to 'team up' against supposed power roles - something that I am already suspicious of you doing.


cicero- You think that the entire game is 'blank' and without anything to investigate?
You have no opinion on either me or Pwayne, who voted me pretty much after you unvoted me? Why the neutral stance?


pwayne -
It's not that the distancing question shouldn't be asked, it's just very unusual for you to focus on someone who at least noticed something scummy about someone most others didn't, at the expense of looking at.... say... the people who have blatantly stated that Gorgon was town. Why would I, as scum, make an effort to distance from someone that a large number of players thought Was Town?
As for being 'tearful victim' - Yes, I feel like I've gotten an undue amount of attention from players, probably MORE than anyone else still in the game. Some attention is fine, before you say that you have to expect it, but who else has 'the spotlight' been on today? Cicero? Somehow, he's slipped from your focus... Hmm.

[cicero]

cicero- You think that the entire game is 'blank' and without anything to investigate? Why the neutral stance

There's lots to investigate. At the moment I think you are misguided town. I think Flea is scum. I think Pwayne is playing differently then in the two games in which I saw him being mafia, but I think he's smart. Can't read him easily. I think White needs another hard look but is absent. And I think Shanba and Chocolate Attack are below the radar. Hackerhuck I dont know. I only have the Kakeng meta to go on.

As it goes, there's no case that I see that is better than the one I have against flea. That doesnt mean I'm right. But its worth all of you going back and looking at that original play and putting a bunch of votes on flea in my opinion.

[Skruffs]

If you look through Gorgon and PWayne's posts, they both say each other is town. They do not directly question each other:
Pwayne' encourages gorgon to answer some questions, and GOrgon encouraged CHocolateAttack to respond to Pwayne's questions.

I mentioned this yesterday, this was Gorgon's response:

Well ... there is truth in both viewpoints. Lynching someone who behaves stupidly and is a liability for the town is as likely to yield a mislynch as a correct lynch, IMO, but Skruffs has a point when he says that it's better to get rid of those people before they become a liability in the endgame.

With regards to the supposed chumminess between me and pwayne, he just hasn't said anything that I disagree with or find suspicious. The same goes, e.g., for cicero ... I'm certainly not going to attack people whom I agree with just for the sake of some principle that I should find everyone suspicious, or whatever. I think pwayne and cicero are both quite likely to be town, and I make no apologies about this.

Right now, I could go for either a Kakeng or ssf lynch, although skitzer is giving me some pretty bad vibes.

Oh look. Gorgon is friends with PWayne and Cicero.
Pwayne is friends with Gorgon and Cicero.
Cicero is friends with Gorgon and PWayne.


Hmmm.
HmMMMMMMMmmmMMMmmmmMMMmMMMmMMMmmmmMMMMMm.
Let me think about this some more.

[cicero]

Yeah. You'd think we'd have the sense to distance. We're an awfully stupid mafia.

[Skruffs]

And yet you, flabbergasted at Gorgon being scum, have yet to reconsider the way he and pwayne buddied up to you day one.

And day two.

[cicero]

I obviously can't read Pwayne. I'm sure something is going on with him. I just don't know if it's mafia or power role. or plain disinterest. He just doesnt seem like he did before. Which, at the end of the day, means nothing.

And I was totally flabbergasted by Gorgon. It's true.

[pwayne66]

I don't get this... first, what issues do I side with Gorgon and Cicero with?

[pwayne66]

...also, I get that cicero and I have been buddy buddy. Gorgon was buddy buddy with everybody. You have said this yourself. Considering this, the fact that Gorgon and I had a non abrasive relationship is insignificant.

And yet you, flabbergasted at Gorgon being scum, have yet to reconsider the way he and pwayne buddied up to you day one.

And day two.

This is an odd quote. It seems as though you are accusing Cicero of not considering the fact that him and I are scum buddies. What is your position? That Gorgon and I are scum buddies and buddied up to cicero for giggles, or that Cicero Gorgon and I are all scum buddies together?

[ChocolateAttack]

Oh look. Gorgon is friends with PWayne and Cicero.
Pwayne is friends with Gorgon and Cicero.
Cicero is friends with Gorgon and PWayne.


Hmmm.
HmMMMMMMMmmmMMMmmmmMMMmMMMmMMMmmmmMMMMMm.
Let me think about this some more.

between Cicero and Pwayne, who do u suspect to be Gorgon scum buddy more?

Cicero play quite interesting to me. He is the most active players in the game. He contribute quite much in the game. I don't think Cicero is a scum because with that much amount of talk in a game, scum will easily be seen but Cicero doesn't. Yet, Cicero too stand out so it make me wonder a little bit.

Given SSF is a scum, who would he killed first? This question kinda led me to believe SSF is not scum, because consider Cicero pushing on him, i found it suprisingly to see Cicero still alive.

Jester, he too agressive, given his position, he was too stand out. His death really left us with no clue.

Shaka like me, as Cicero said, laying under the radar. I kinda suspicious of him. I went back and read his posts. His posts until this point doesn't really said anything.

FOS: Shaka

[cicero]

Why didnt you address Pwayne, Chocolate?

[HackerHuck]

Sorry HackerHuck
I mean tot say
"I don't like how you seem to be going against the obvious in saying there may not be an SK". It strokes me as something mafia would do or something to 'team up' against supposed power roles - something that I am already suspicious of you doing.

Perhaps I'm beating the dead horse here, but I want to try and clear this up. I neither said nor implied that there may not be an SK. My comments were that we cannot take it as fact that we have both an SK and a Vig. I then made a comment that I felt implied I believe that an SK targeted Gorgon. In any event, I'm of the opinion that we have at least one other killing role besides the mafia, which I feel is likely to be a Serial Killer. If we do have a vigilante, that's just gravy for us and I don't see how it is scummy even if I were to have denied the possibility of a vig.

Skruffs - I definitely see your point, but I'm going to echo Cicero in thinking that those three can't be that bad at being scum. Especially considering we managed to lynch a townie.

I must go back and reread that newbie game Skruffs, since I was thinking we were on the same side.

Chocolate Attack - keep in mind that even if SSF is mafia, he might not have decided on their night kill.

Cicero's tunneling has me a little worried. SSF was one of my suspects, but I'm also getting a wierd feeling about how Cicero is playing his cards.

[cicero]

When I talked about Shaka, I hadn't gone back to do a re-read. And I though he was laying low under the radar. But I just went back and read. How can you think that he "said nothing" to this point?

Especially when you talked about him earlier your thought was:

Shaka: not much thought on him, accept he active and somewhat town to me.

When asked about Cicero and Pwayne why didn't you talk about Pwayne?

[Skruffs]

I have focalized my suspicions about pwayne/cicero. Why are you asking me if i think it's one or the other, pwayne?
That comment to cicero was any analysis of him. I think it's all three of you, and he, as town, should be suspicious of the way you and gorgon got along, as well as the fairly heavy defense you gave of him (cicero) day one. As town, he should be.
Instead, he's fairly ambivalent. He's ceded that he was wrong about gorgon, he backed off after his attack on me, and now he's 'defaulted' to ssf. Oddly, gorgon was suspicious of ssf too. Right? I mean, am i wrong?

Hh:
The backup had a baseball bat, however, nobody was bludgeoned, though. However, him having a weapon almost certifies there is a vig. The morning scene says that gorgon and jester were shot, and that jester was also stabbed. If the same person targetted both players, shooting them, then they aren't mafia, or they would not kill one of their own. However, shooting is the traditional mafia form of death, stabbing is unlikely.
Unless the vig was roleblocked, or the doctor (needles in backup) was successful, then... Well, maybe you are right, i don't know what to make of it.

mod: does the backup's baseball bat represent the vig's mode of killing?

Sorry, but I can't reveal things like that

[cicero]

Given SSF is a scum, who would he killed first? This question kinda led me to believe SSF is not scum, because consider Cicero pushing on him, i found it suprisingly to see Cicero still alive.

Jester, he too agressive, given his position, he was too stand out. His death really left us with no clue.

You used to think Flea was scummy. Now he isnt because I'm alive. I'll tell you exactly why I'm alive and Jester's dead. Two reasons: first because, I've fallen under heavy suspicion twice. Once from Battlemage and consistently from Skruffs. and second because my death would point TOO directly to Flea and at almost no one else. Yet the other person who died was a person who suspected flea -among others - was a good detective, and didn't appear at all scummy.

The second thing I find interesting about your post is that you think Jester's death leaves us with no clue. Jester's death is replete with clues, which I've already outlined in a previous post. I added some more in that last paragraph.

What's going on with you, Chocolate? Are you forgetting your lies as you sail along on the prevailing winds?

FOS Chocolate

[pwayne66]

I have focalized my suspicions about pwayne/cicero. Why are you asking me if i think it's one or the other, pwayne?

Mainly because you are all over the place. You seem to be throwing anything that you can and seeing if it sticks. It seemed as though the referenced quote represented a shift in position. That's all. If you don't believe me, consider, Since I had voted for you, your OMGUS tirade against me includes:

Anyways, this is about you, not cicero. In your first post in response, you agree with cicero "at the risk of seeming chummy" (may have misparaphrased). So you are agreeing that me and jester both found gorgon suspicious.

Of course this was clarified.

However, even after acknowledging that, you decide to take my vote for the claimed power role as your reasoning for putting a vote on me.

This, too was clarified.

Also, why is it you only ask for prods of players you aren't voting? You didn't ask for a prod on White until you changed your vote to me, and then you didn't ask for a prod on me, either. Small small scumtell.

I have asked you to explain this "scum tell" but you haven't.

A lot of my suspicion of Pwayne, Cicero, and Gorgon comes from
Page Four, continuing through Five

Ditto here. I can't find anything scummy and I have asked.

Much like cicero yesterday, you seem interested in lynching good players and ignoring scummy ones.

I may be wrong, but Cicero is voting and suspicious of SSF. He has never voted you. I am not voting you now, as my orginal questions and suspicions have been satisfied. You seem hyper defensive and intent on mischaracterozing the situation.

One of the reasons I'm also adding Cicero to the mix is because of the way you were so nervous about a possible lynch-2 on Cicero early on in the game.

I have asked about this as well but haven't recieved an answer.

I am still happy with voting cicero, though pwayne is high up there now.

I am having trouble understanding this. What is the case on Cicero? It seems that his case depends on me and mine on his.

Despite all of this, your case stands as follows:

1)Cicero and pwayne have been chummy.
2)Gorgon was chummy with everybody.
3)Gorgon was scum
therefore- cicero and pwayne are scum as well.

Cicero and I have been respectful of one another for explained reasons. I defended Cicero from BM's BS case. Cicero and I have both asked you questions about your suspicions yesterday. Are these similarities indicative a mafia plot?


So, a new round of questions for you:

1) Was the relationship between Gorgon and me more chummy than that of gorgon's relationships with everybody else? This is important. This is the keystone to your case, so you should really answer this.

2) Was I wrong to defend Cicero against BM's case?

3) What have cicero, gorgon and I agreed on?

[pwayne66]

@cicero- I don't get why your death points to SSF.

[cicero]

@cicero- I don't get why your death points to SSF.

I'm not actually saying that I'm alive and therefore Flea is scum. I'm debunking a conclusion that ChocolateAttack is making that because I'm alive, Flea looks Townie. This is an exercise in the dangers of WIFOM though.

My argument is basically like this:

If you are mafia you generally nightkill for a few different reasons.
1. Really townie looking players: Nightkill someone who you doubt will get themselves lynched. They need to die some time and if the townies won't do it you have to.
2. People who are dangerous to you. Good investigators, people leading a good case against you.
3. Power-roles.

You don't, however, want to kill someone that will put you in direct suspicion.

In this game I've been (to my great and everlasting shame I assure you) fairly focussed on Flea. I actually hate being tunnel visioned to be honest. It isn't something Im wedded to and if I get reasons to change my mind, I will.

Also in this game, I've been accused by Battlemage and Skruffs. So I dont look purely townie, at least to some players in the game. So no ability to kill me as the towniest looking townie.

This is why Flea,

if he is scum

, couldn't just kill me last night. It would give my case against him more resonance.

Again, lots of WIFOM comes in to play. What it should illustrate is that me being alive doesn't mean flea is town, especially when Jester who had voted for flea and done a strong investigation is dead.

[pwayne66]

Not to quibble, talk too much about theory or be too WIFOMy, but you could add to your list:

4) Highly suspicious townies that were likely targets for investigation. This, in effect nullifies the cop's power for 1 day.

[cicero]

Not to quibble, talk too much about theory or be too WIFOMy, but you could add to your list:

4) Highly suspicious townies that were likely targets for investigation. This, in effect nullifies the cop's power for 1 day.

Smart advanced idea. I never thought of that one. I guess I'd only do it if I thought I was damned sure who the cop would investigate. And that would normally be quite the crapshoot.