Mini 517: Tree Stump Mafia: Game Over

[scotmany12]

Khorlash all I can do is laugh at you. Pretty ironic how you call me a hypocrite. Maybe you should go look at how many times you contradict yourself in your case against me.

[JDodge]

JDodge:

Post 12:

Assumes he read his role PM and would thus know who his scumbuddies were.

Post 33:

Damn, I'm so scummy for random voting

Post 70:

LYNCHING PEOPLE WITHOUT SOLID REASONING THAT WOULD INDICATE THAT THEY ARE SCUM IS BAD.

BAD

.

BAD.

We got lucky with Quag. Nothing more.

Post 86:

A) It gets rid of a person creating unneeded hinderances to the town.
B) He is more or less the most obviously suspicious person at the time
C) He keeps disobeying orders that he is given

by a majority of the town

D) It is a lot better then wanting someone lynched on a basis of nothing.. which is about all you have had this entire game… (So far XD)

A) It gets rid of someone who could

just as well be town playing poorly

. Lynching town in a setup where lynching is bad is, in general,

BAD

.

Same Post:

...

Same post:

Are you being intentionally dense?

Post 90:

Ow my context

And no one should play neutral. You should in fact PLAY TOWN no matter what side you are on. (see above point) Both town and mafia players alike benefit from appearing “Pro-town” and so to play neutral is idiotic. So being unreadable = being dangerous. And being dangerous and NOT STUMPING = scum. As proven already. Or that’s my take on it. You being scum of course makes you semi biased right? :p

No, your goal as a mafia player should be to not give off any tells indicative of you being scum/town/SK/cult/survivor/lyncher/jester/whatever. That is what I mean by neutral.

Being unreadable is indeed dangerous.

Lynching people for it is more dangerous.

No what do you see? Seriously I stared at it for like 3 minutes and cannot see what yoru talking about.. or more… not talking about… STOP IT! I would not be surprised if I hammered you for the exact same reasons I did Quag.. You annoy, confuse, and piss me off at the same time…

Why do you want to hammer people?

Post 91: ~FIXED~

It's called

fixing your punctuation

. Most people with a basic grasp of the English language would know that it takes it from its original statement form to its intended form.

Post 101:

Are you being intentionally dense?

Post 105:

Yeah... It is so anti-town to agree in a fashion that keeps with my sense of humour

Post 154:

HOW THE HELL

IS GOING AFTER PEOPLE FOR OPPORTUNISM

OPPORTUNISM?

Post 169:

i find it ironic how in agreeing with me you prove yourself a hypocrite

Post 172:

And the world record for quickest flip-flop has just been broken! You agree with me above, but when I restate it, you disagree!

Like magic

.

Post 174:

R.I.P Logic, beginning of intelligent life - November 4th, 2007

Pot 180:

HOW THE HELL IS ME DISAGREEING WITH SOMEONE WHO I'M SCUM WITH FOR "BUDDYING UP TO THEM" SCUMMY?

Post 182:

AGAIN, I AM ASSUMING HE DID NOT READ HIS ROLE PM.

Post 203:

Allow me to be the first to say "f*** you".

Post 209:

1. Not stupid
2. I don't think Adele is scum. Which you would realize if you look at the next post.

Post 211:

Because SP was acting scummy

And I didn't want to lynch him, I wanted to stump him

Post 215:

Not advice, it's called burden of proof. I don't want to present a case, that's my problem. I admit it.

Post 253:

...

Quit assuming that not giving a reason = not having a reason

Post 257:

The easiest way to respond to this is just to say "you're an idiot".

Post 259:

*snip*

Absolutely no pro town reason for this…

So thus, not being pro town, I want you dead…

CALLING DR. FREUD

Post 272:

my not having a read on someone is so scummy

Ok thats about it on him... I would like to iterate here that I kinda became a little bias against both JD and Scot this game and some of my attacks became a bit to personal and I deeply apologize for them. I will outline my stupid MoS/Adele partnership idea next...

hi scum

[SilverPhoenix]

Being unreadable is indeed dangerous.
Lynching people for it is more dangerous.

You can be unreadable w/o not actually reading your role PM. He could have actually played and been unreadable w/o telling us that he didn't read his PM and he probably would not have gotten lynched. People don't want to hear that you don't know what role you're playing. What I'm trying to say is that it was there were other ways of being unreadable that Quag could have explored if that was the reason why he didn't read his role, not the way he did which he handled horriblly. Which is why he was lynched. I agree we were lucky but it was Quag's own fault.

[scotmany12]

Silver I have a question for you. Do you think it is fair that khorlash attacks me for not considering that your "mistake" was just a mistake rather than a scummy move, but when I make a mistake, when I answered your question wrong if I believe quag looked at his role, I don't get the benefit of the doubt? That is only one of the hypocritical things that khorlash has done.

[Korlash]

You know I was about to come back and tell you to give me some examples but it looks like you just did...

I am all ready to give you the benefit of the doubt, except I have NOTHING but scummy acts from you, and so i highly doubt you actually made a mistake. While at the same time Silver being proven town kinda HAS to be given the benefit of the doubt you know... Not to mention it was kinda you that threw him into stumping, along with JD, and mith to a lesser degree... So I think you should not get to be forgiven for even a "mistake." That mistake got a towny killed you moron and I don't like that. Either way I look at it you still come up lynchable material today.

Hmmm... I woulda been happier with JD's comebacks if they all didn't span around me being dense... As for the 169/172 scandal thats about the only thing I can see your side on. I feel the two sentences are different enough for me to have taken different sides but I can totally see how that makes me look contradicting. Props for having at least one good comeback. Unlike Schot at least... Thats why your my number two

And as far as Long posts go I hate them too... This is probably the only post longer then 4 paragraphs I will ever post here again... That is just all my stuff up to know laid out because I have more or less been totally unhelpful all game.

But Schot, you might as well keep hounding that little bit you got there... I bet it totally gets you out of the gallows

[scotmany12]

Khorlash in your post you said a neutral lynch was a good lynch. Do you not remember that you were against the quag lynch? At times you say it was a bad lynch and that the town got lucky, but when you make a case against me, you say it is a good lynch?

… Second most scummy post from you… Of course we should attack the people who defended quag you nut… Do you not get the idea of a partnership? And Opportunism? Like how you and JD are both oprotunising the fact that D3sisted went after you? And how you are opprotunising Quag’s lynch as a reason to focus on the real town and not you two scum? Stop using OPPROTUNITY AS A REASON FOR A VOTE/LYNCH! IT IS NOT REAL EVIDENCE! EVER!!!!!

First off, opportunism is a viable reason. Second off, do you not just realize you just attacked me for being opportunistic when you said it was not a real reason?

This is a good one. Not exactly hypocritical but you will see.

Are you a dumb town, or a stupid scum? Either way I hope you die today…

So you don't care if I'm scum or not? Even if I'm town you want me dead? [sarcasm]That has got to be the most protown move this entire game.[/sarcasm]

[scotmany12]

Also, how did I throw silver into stumping? I wasn't even voting for him on day 2 when he stumped.

[Korlash]

Also, how did I throw silver into stumping? I wasn't even voting for him on day 2 when he stumped.

Really? I honestly thought you were... So what your "mistakes" that you made when you attacked him were done after he stummped? That seems like a not so scum move..

First off, opportunism is a viable reason. Second off, do you not just realize you just attacked me for being opportunistic when you said it was not a real reason?

Yeah I attacked you for using it because it is not a real reason... So your second point makes no sense to me. And as for your first thing, almost EVERY SINLGE CAN can in some way be called "Opportunism" and it really cannot be proven or disproven. So it is, more or less, a really really bad reason to do anything and a really bad piece of evidence. It's more of an "Opinion" then fact almost every single time it is used. And seeing as how many times you and JD seem to call people "Opportunistic" I think you guys need to find some actual case against someone...

So you don't care if I'm scum or not? Even if I'm town you want me dead? [sarcasm]That has got to be the most protown move this entire game.

I have already said I think you are 100% scum, I would advice you not to try and twist my words and put words in my mouth.

[SilverPhoenix]

Silver I have a question for you. Do you think it is fair that khorlash attacks me for not considering that your "mistake" was just a mistake rather than a scummy move, but when I make a mistake, when I answered your question wrong if I believe quag looked at his role, I don't get the benefit of the doubt?

Normally, I would say yes, you would get the benefit of the doubt. But being wrong twice about alignment (Quag being the first) is somewhat pushing it. If Korlash comes up town, you should be lynched.

[Korlash]

Well I already said I will stump so there is a very high chance I may in fact come up town... I just figured I would rather lynch him first... =D

[scotmany12]

But silver, I never said quag was town. I never said he was scum. I believed that he did not look at his role, and that we should focus on other things on day 1. So i was wrong once, and that was with you silver, who others were also wrong about.

[Korlash]

Um... You said you believed he had looked at his role if I remember the 8 times I quoted it correctly... I don;t really see any point you would be lying about that right now so I don't know that it actually means anything... Just feel like pointing it out...

Post 118 if you don't believe me...

[scotmany12]

And that was an honest mistake. I think you would have realized that judging by the rest of my actions.

[Korlash]

Sure... You made a mistake on top of all your scummy actions. I can accept that. Still want you dead. But at least now I feel we can kill each other and still be friends =D

[scotmany12]

Are you a dumb town, or a stupid scum? Either way I hope you die today…

So you don't care if I'm scum or not? Even if I'm town you want me dead? [sarcasm]That has got to be the most protown move this entire game.[/sarcasm]

I have already said I think you are 100% scum, I would advice you not to try and twist my words and put words in my mouth.

I'm not twisting words or putting words in my mouth. It doesn't really matter if you think I am scum or not. The fact is you still clearly said you want me dead whether I am town or scum.

[Korlash]

You... have.. not... Put words in your mouth? What... So everything you say did not come from your mouth eh... plagiarism is a crime!

And yes, If mafia I want you lynched, and if town I want you to be stumped. So either way I do hope you die today. Now that that is out of the way I need to find some kind of copyright law I can bring up on you...

Ohh a surcharge for sarcasm! Happy days! =D

[scotmany12]

What the hell are you talking about korlash? Show me where I put words in your mouth. All I did was simply restate what you already said.

[Korlash]

??? Ok... In my last post I was talking about you saying you didn't put words in your mouth not mine... You seem kinda jumpy man... Or paranoid...

When I said you were putting words in my mouth I meant the way you said I thought you were either town or scum when I had already listed you at 100% scum... Granted the post you quoted could be used against me for that, I still feel my scumdar overrides that one little sentence...

However I enjoy how you keep trying to find little holes in my case and try to push them with all your might.. Your not getting out of this... But you are putting up one hell of a fight! Good show ol' chap! Jolly good show!

[SilverPhoenix]

But silver, I never said quag was town. I never said he was scum. I believed that he did not look at his role, and that we should focus on other things on day 1.

I still consider that a mistake. You showed that you believed Quag without question, which I have a large problem with. Not considering all the options is not very pro-town, IMO. Even if the option is unlikely, it still should be at least acknowledged. You didn't acknowledge that Quag could have been lying. You didn't acknowledge that I could have been a (initially) confused town. This type of playing is very problematic and seems to me only to have one goal: to kill someone (by that I mean anyone). Not very pro-town indeed.

I wrote:
Korlash wrote:
Are you a dumb town, or a stupid scum? Either way I hope you die today…

So you don't care if I'm scum or not? Even if I'm town you want me dead? [sarcasm]That has got to be the most protown move this entire game.[/sarcasm]

Did Korlash say that during his super-tirade? Hmmm.....troubling....

However I enjoy how you keep trying to find little holes in my case and try to push them with all your might.

That is what scotmany seems to be good at...

[Korlash]

Did Korlash say that during his super-tirade? Hmmm.....troubling....

Why is that troubling? I already explained my reasonings behind it...

That is what scotmany seems to be good at...

Yeah but I don;t think he can honestly get out of some of the things I brought up... I just hope people actually read some of my cases and don't just base it off what he is bringing up...

Ehh I'm not worried.. Even the things he is bringing up I know I have good reasons for... So bring it on Scum.. I mean Scot.. sorry.. i always get those two mixed up! GO figure XD

[Thok]

DrippingGoofball replaces Max, effective as soon as she posts in the thread.

Official Vote Count

d3sisted (2): (JDodge, scotmany12)
scotmany12 (2): (d3sisted, Korlash)
DrippingGoofball (1): (Aimee)
Korlash (1): (Mith)
JDodge (0):
Adele (0):
Aimee (0):
Mith (0):
Mastermind of Sin (0):

Not voting (3): (Mastermind of Sin, DrippingGoofball, Adele)

[Adele]

That's a lot... ok, I'm writing this post as I read. Just fyi.

Adele, I can't control what quag does. And originally it was going to be mos, but we switched to you.

Quag decided to switch to me. You decided to follow him. That

ws

under your control, as was your choice to not criticise him.

Korlash: damn, but you're posting a lot! Thanks and all, but it's tough to keep up.

Also I find it odd you talk about all these pints Adele made and yet vote for Silver… Weird… Only wanting to vote for townies others have already voted eh?

/agree. It's like he wants to damage my credibility just to hurt someone else by association, because he perceives my credibility as to high to be a plausible lynch right now.

Which is why, ok, it's wifom, but it makes me slightly more reassured to see Korlash scrutinising me (and putting me together with mos). It reduces the chance of Korlash being scum in my eyes, but then marginally increases the chance of Korlash being scum with mos. So, I guess I'd better answer his case:

If we let people off being lynched because they refuse to treestump, refusing to stump will become the dominant strategy for town and scum alike. However, I agree that a quicklynch is a Bad Thing (tm).

I was stunned to have four votes on me at the end of page 2, and didn't pay much attention to how many votes were on quag. So, for now:

Unvote

however, I won't support antitown play by inaction. If quag won't retract or agree to play a solidly protown game (you know, post "ok, I checked and guess what? I'm a tree! Shocker, no?" so we can get on with the game we're here to play) then I support his lynching.

As much I as want to not believe in a partnership between them I find it funny mentioning how she would be all for a Quag lynch yet unvoted just the same…

I said in that post I wanted to prevent a

quicklynch

. Also, what did that post have to do with mos?

Seeing as how much Quag kept fighting more or less to get himself killed I am beginning to see the MoS, Adele, and Quag trio more and more. A good plan that could have very easily been thought of by MoS and Quag. While I like others more, if this turns out to be the case I am going to probably do a little jig… 9 times out of 10 I’m wrong though… No dance for me…

Today started with 8 town to 2 scum. Doesn't seem like a good plan to me. Again, how does that show the trio? I guess there was the early "me quag hate mos", but jdodge and scot say that happened pregame.

Kinda dumb to wait if you ask me… he has more or less said 50 times he will not stump.. waiting 24 hours is kinda dumb…

heh... at some point in the thread I think that was criticised as not long enough.

I don't really see it, any more than any other random pairing being scum with quag. But then, I guess I wouldn't.

Regarding Bapa Bail / mith: I usually hold replacements accountable for their predecessor's actions, save for lurking. However, there were 2 things about this case that made me not want to do that:
1) The reason why bapa bail was chucked off; because of a history of screwin' round
2) mith's first (2nd?) post was so vehemently at odds with bapa's attitude, and so firmly grounded, that it seemed only fair to wipe the BB slate.

Jdodge:

Long posts are bad.

5-6 long posts are worse.

5-6 long posts consecutively with terrible logic are a violation of the Geneva convention.

That doesn't count as a rebuttal, y'know...

Lynching town in a setup where lynching is bad is, in general, BAD

1. He wasn't town.
2. We had no reason to believe he was town
3. To avoid lynching people, we have to punish them if they refuse to stump. We can't just let "I won't stump!"-ers off the hook. Ironically, this is a case where if we want peace we must be prepared for war.

HOW THE HELL

IS GOING AFTER PEOPLE FOR OPPORTUNISM

OPPORTUNISM?

I think his point is,

everything's

opportunism, in that in order to do something you must have the opportunity to do it.

HOW THE HELL IS ME DISAGREEING WITH SOMEONE WHO I'M SCUM WITH FOR "BUDDYING UP TO THEM" SCUMMY?

Admittedly I find this whole post impossible to follow (way to include quotes but exclude the quotations from them), but did Jdodge just say he's scum with someone? Did Jdodge just tell us he's scum?

edit: heh. "Paging dr freud".

OK. So, Korlash and Silver really don't get along with jdodge and scotmany... and that summarises pretty much the last page of posts. Yow.

I want to hear from max's replacement, and from mith and mos and aimee again... (I'm a bit worried that max never justified his Adele-trust before slipping out). To clarify, I wanna hear from max's replacement and aimee because they've gotten away with undercontribution, and from mith and mos because I've found their input to be of value.

And Jdodge, If you don't explain why you're voting d3sisted now, I'm going to vote for you. This isn't just going to fly under the radar, y'know.

[JDodge]

i'm going to work on giving the reasons on d3sisted at some point today

[DrippingGoofball]

Logging in to replant Max.

[DrippingGoofball]

I looked up dead scum Quag and I don't buy his claim of not having read his role PM. He said it over and over again, I suspect a hidden agenda, especially since he was scum #1.

Massive Day 1 distancing with Adele, and vice-versa. I bet the farm that Adele is scum #2. Textbook case here.

Next I am going to find scum #3, and possibly scum #4. Sit tight, Goofball is here.