Mini 500 - Cult Mafia - Game Over!

[Guardian]

Official Vote Count #53

Not Voting[6](Oman, vollkan, Tarhalindur, pwayne66, Trojan Horse, theopor_COD)

[pwayne66]

It's no small wonder that this has been reduced to quibbling. You keep changing your case against me!

First it was:

1) Anybody that pushes an anti town idea is scum
2) pwayne66 pushed an antitown idea
therefore) pwayne66 is scum!

after I pointed out that you pushed an anti town idea as well, you changed you theory so that it excluded you:

1) Anybody that pushes an anti town idea past post 992 is scum!
2) pwayne66 pushed an antitown idea past post 992
therefore) pwayne66 is scum!

When I decide to play along with your ridiculous "line in the message board" application of scumminess, and point out that I didn't push it after 992, you claim that I did... all the way to post 993 (gasp!!!)


This despite the fact that there can be no doubt that post 992 is what changed my mind. But you were aware of this right? That is why you change your position again to better make it fit:

1) Anybody that pushes an anti town idea past 951 is scum!
2) pwayne66 pushed an anti town idea past 951
therefore) pwayne66 is scum!

Lets be accurate though. Any of the following two are a more accurate representation of your argument:

1) Anybody that pushes an anti-town idea past the point when vollkan stops supporting it, is scum.

blah blah blah. I'm done defending myself on this issue against you. You have a clear agenda and I am not playing along with it. If anybody else has questions about this, I am game.

Now, I have a TH PBPA to do...

[vollkan]

It's not the case has been altered; my line has been consistent. It's simply that we are narrowing things down in terms of specificity.

The second issue is that I did not find my post 951 until after I had made my first post.

First it was:

1) Anybody that pushes an anti town idea is scum
2) pwayne66 pushed an antitown idea
therefore) pwayne66 is scum!

See ^ that is a very broad analysis of my suspicion of you.

after I pointed out that you pushed an anti town idea as well, you changed you theory so that it excluded you:

1) Anybody that pushes an anti town idea past post 992 is scum!
2) pwayne66 pushed an antitown idea past post 992
therefore) pwayne66 is scum!

That makes it more specific. And, on that note, you make it sound like I have suddenly become aware of the fact that I did support the vanilla lynching. If you read 951, I make it quite clear that whilst I initially thought it was a valid line of argument, the discussion had moved firmly against it.

This despite the fact that there can be no doubt that post 992 is what changed my mind. But you were aware of this right? That is why you change your position again to better make it fit:

1) Anybody that pushes an anti town idea past 951 is scum!
2) pwayne66 pushed an anti town idea past 951
therefore) pwayne66 is scum!

Okay, let me draw things back to how I see them so we can understand our respective positions:

I think that anybody who advocates a position that is demonstrably anti-town is scummy when that position has been refuted, if they fail to properly address that refutation.

That's a broad general rule.

In your case, you continued to argue your line without really having regard to the counter-case right up until 993 when we first got the hint that you were realising that there were problems in your position. Before that, you had failed to respond directly to my points, instead arguing your position with MoS. It was the gap from 951-993 where my suspicion formed. And it was only after hard numerical evidence that you backed down.

You have a clear agenda and I am not playing along with it. If anybody else has questions about this, I am game.

I know some of this has been confusing because of the 951 mux-ip, but I think you should see my position now.

[pwayne66]

I think that anybody who advocates a position that is demonstrably anti-town is scummy when that position has been refuted, if they fail to properly address that refutation.

Long story short, I am sorry if you feel that I didn't give post 951 the consideration that it deserved. I was fighting off what I thought was a surprising situation, multiple posts from MoS, CDK and others. Oman was totally missing the point and was siding with me. You saying that I didn't consider the counter-cases is insulting. All I did that entire time is consider and defend my position against counter cases. It was the very fact that I consider your post 992 that caused me to change my position. Your revamped:

"I think that anybody who advocates a position that is demonstrably anti-town is scummy when that position has been refuted, if they fail to properly address that refutation."

...fails your scum test. I stopped supporting the position once I thought it was refuted. Perhaps you think I should have done so in 951 rather in 992. There were 14 hours between the two posts. I was asleep for several of them. If that is your case, so be it. I have no further defenses and I don't think any further defenses are necessary.

[vollkan]

Long story short, I am sorry if you feel that I didn't give post 951 the consideration that it deserved. I was fighting off what I thought was a surprising situation, multiple posts from MoS, CDK and others. Oman was totally missing the point and was siding with me. You saying that I didn't consider the counter-cases is insulting. All I did that entire time is consider and defend my position against counter cases. It was the very fact that I consider your post 992 that caused me to change my po

Alright.

I think we are both clear on this then. If what you say there is the case, then your ignoring it is understandable. Of course, I will take it with the usual grain of salt.

Perhaps you think I should have done so in 951 rather in 992. There were 14 hours between the two posts. I was asleep for several of them. If that is your case, so be it. I have no further defenses and I don't think any further defenses are necessary.

Heh. I checked the times and you are right. This clears things up significantly.

[pwayne66]

Well hell. Two things:

1) I'm doing this on my work computer. My work network blocks mafiascum so I run through a proxy. Since it takes 3-5 minutes for a page to load, I couldn't imagine going through 53 pages searching for TH's posts. I sorted by his name instead. The downside is that I don't have real post numbers, only the number of the post that HE made.

2) I'm tired. I'm going on vacation starting tomorrow, so I won't finish until Monday.

Here is what I have:

0- Random votes Dr.Bs
1- Comments on Dr. BS' sig
2- cult theory discussioon. goes to check on MoS
3- MoS is posting elsewhere
4- Tells tyhess he can't edit posts
5- Unvotes BS. Doesn't think he is scummy. Should we claim?
6- Disaproves of the Flamewagon.
7- Suspect tyhess. is he newbietown or newbscum?
8- Votes tyhess to "see how he reacts..."
9- unvotes tyhess. Looks more newbie than scum. gonna look at flameaxe next.
10- question's theo about his accusation of pwayne.
11- tyhess has been on all the wagons, unsure about him. Dr.BS and Flameaxe are okay. ACFAN votes one and FOS another. Votes tyhess
12- Doesn't like theo or his vote against pwayne. Theo=slightly scummy.
13- Defends push tyhess= "I guess his bandwagon jumping just didn't sit well with me. My vote still stands, though". ACFAN is lurking and has a weak argument against Oman.
14- TH post his scumdar:

Mastermind of Sin: So far, seems to have been playing exactly as per form, except for the fact that he didn't jump in until some time had passed. Unusual for a veteran like him, but perhaps he just forgot about this game.

Oman: Okay, I finally took a closer look at the "duel" between MoS and Oman a few pages back. So, Oman was suspicious of flameaxe and theo, while MoS was not so suspicious of them, and that set Oman off. Or something like that. (I'm a bit more confused about it now than I was before I read it.) That "duel" didn't make either of them seem more or less scummy to me.

ac1983fan: Hard to pick up on scumtells when there are so few posts to analyze. Perhaps a "come on now, talk" vote is in order. I'll think about it.

vollkan: Seems to be the most reasonable player so far. I really hope he's not scum.

Dr. Blackstrike: Dare I say it, his game has been the most similar to mine so far, outside of that faulty strategy comment at the start. An occasional post to say that he hasn't picked up on much yet, but that he's still looking. Guess I'd be the uber-hypocrite if I attacked him for that.

curiouskarmadog: Middle of the road. Haven't picked up on anything unusual yet.

pwayne66: Was one of those that helped disarm the early bandwagon on Dr. Blackstrike, and rightfully so. Then again, if the Doctor does turn up scum, this will be a mark on pwayne. Just something to file in the memory banks for later.

If I was really cruel, I'd pull out an LAL vote for pwayne, since he said he wouldn't post all weekend, then proceeded to post. Smile

tyhess: Still the newb, and still my vote, though I give him a slightly lower scumdar rating now than I did before. I'm open to alternatives.

Flameaxe: Was subject to an early bandwagon. I didn't quite buy the reasons for it at the time, and I still don't. Oy vey... I'm starting to realize that I've put most people into the "possibly scummy, but no hard evidence, I dunno" category, including Flameaxe. I gotta kick this scumdar again.

White (r. Rump-Wat): Man. He's posting way differently as White than he did as Rump-Wat. Maybe he got recruited during the day? Wink

Seriously though, White has a much better scumdar than I do if MoS turns out to be scum. I really don't want to jump on that bandwagon, considering MoS seems to be playing as usual. But I can't fault White for applying a little pressure.

(By the way, White, I'm only a newb when in comes to forum games. I've been "making my lettuce" in chatroom games.)

theopor_COD: An early lurker, but a solid contributer since.

Adds this at the end:

So, who's at the top of my list? Tyhess, barely. I guess acfan would be up there as well, simply because he's said so little...

15- tyhess is more mafia than cult. Says he will research MoS. Struggling to find evidence.
16- unvotes until acfan responds or is replaced. MoS's game style is different. MoS moves up scumdar..."OK, MoS. You may attack me back, now. "
17- MoS is acting more conservative than normal
18- tick tick waiting for acfan to post and for theo to breakdown all the players. "Hope he doesn't think I'm too scummy."
19- "Oh man. There was supposed to be a smiley at the end of that post. That comment was in jest."
20- ^^was intended for MoS^^
21- OMGUS vote on MoS. "This is about my gut feelings about him being scum."
22- Don't claim MoS! Unvotes MoS to give Kakeng time to post. Points out that MoS wasn't @ L-1.
23- Responding to White's suspicions about his rapid vote/unvote of MoS.
-"My vote was based on some very weak evidence"
-"I unvoted to give things some more thought; my concerns, weak as they were, were not "dealt with". I'll put the vote back on MoS if I can't find any better alternatives. "
-"But I'm not going to vote at all until acfan is replaced. "
24- Where is theo. This game is really MoS, pwayne, and white bickering.
25- Scumdar:

Mastermind of Sin: As I said before, took a while before honing in on a suspect. A bit longer than I thought he would take.

Oman: Pushing me into making this post. Wink

ac1983fan: Nothing beyond his total absence. I'll have to wait until he is replaced.

vollkan: Seems to have more interest in the game than anyone else. Maybe he's so interested because he's scum? (Weak, I know.)

Dr. Blackstrike: There was his strategy suggestion at the start, of course. But now there's something bigger: somehow, he keeps finding time to make posts, but not to make posts with any content to them. Doing just barely enough to avoid modkills and suspicion, perhaps?

curiouskarmadog: Can't find anything yet.

pwayne66: Defused the early bandwagon on Dr. Blackstrike. Could be townie behavior; could be he just didn't think the Doc was scummy. Or it could be he was defending a scummate.

tyhess: The bandwagon hopping is the most suspicious thing.

Flameaxe: Not posting since Monday, despite early contributions.

White: Being willing to replace into a silly game like this. Wink Seriously though, nothing looks fishy at all.

theopor_COD: The unwarranted attack on pwayne early on, back when pwayne was defusing the early bandwagon on Dr. Blackstrike. Does that contradict what I said about pwayne? I guess it does.

And finally, can't let myself off the hook:

Trojan Horse: Being swayed easily by other people's arguments. Are they really changing my mind, or am I scum trying to avoid suspicion?

26- BUMP!!
27- Says "no!" to no lynch
28- Redread some, didn't find much... CDK is the only player not to be accussed of being scum
29- DL exetension request
30- Responds to theo's accusation of "fencesitting"
-"The reason why you haven't seen any hardcore feelings from me yet is because... well... I sadly don't have any yet."
-" At the moment I'm looking at either lynching MoS for being a bit too conservative at the start, or lynching tyhess for too much bandwagon hopping."
Goes on to challenge theo on his Kakeng lynch logic.
31- Responds to white's FOS for not having opinions:
-"I said I had no HARDCORE feelings. I didn't say I had no opinions. I've had plenty of them"
-"If I don't find something better to go on, I'll have to vote for MoS or tyhess based on weak evidence. "
32- "Okay. I'll raise acfan/Kakeng's scummy level a notch. But just a notch."
33- ^^^Clarifies this statement^^^ AC's timing was questionable.
34- "Alright then MoS, I'll commit. Not happy about it, but I'll commit. " Votes tyhess
35- "I'm in a d***ed if I do, d***ed if I don't situation right now." Unvotes tyhess. and then:
-"I will point out one thing though; tyhess has now jumped onto yet ANOTHER new bandwagon."
36- Clarrifies that he forgot to put on a smiley to theo. POV on FA vs White? "Null tells from both."
37- Says that he needs to stop joking. Restates his case on tyhess.
38- "ust a note to say that I checked the thread once again, and that I'm signing off for the night. I'm tired, and I'm in no state of mind to respond to more arguments right now. It'll have to wait."
40- SCUMLIST:

In approximate order of scumminess:

tyhess: I know, I know, he's an easy target. But easy targets can be scum too. I think all his opportunistic bandwagon hopping is too much, even for a newb. If there had been a night round at the start, I wouldn't be as concerned. I would think tyhess is newbtown, since I would assume any newbscum would be cautioned by more experienced scummates not to stand out in the crowd. But we started with day. Could be tyhess is newbscum, and hasn't been forewarned.

MoS: It's still about how long it took for him to focus on a suspect at the start. Not something I would attack most players for, but this is MoS after all. Incidentally, if he is scum, that would've been a brilliant move on his part: pushing me into voting, knowing that everyone else would jump on me for it. But it's his behavior early in the game that I'm mostly concerned about.

curiouskarmadog: If you want to attack me for "flying under the radar" (as someone said), why aren't you attacking this guy too? We're in the same boat.

White: This would be my final option. He's been taking control since he replaced in, putting pressure on several people in turn. Scummy? Not in and of itself. That's what players do: look for scumtells. But is this his usual style of play? As I did with MoS, I'm going to take a quick look at some other games he's in and see if he's doing the same thing. If he is, fine. If not, I'll give him the eye of suspicion.

I see nothing in anyone else worth lynching over. You'd have quite a time trying to convince me to lynch someone other than these four.

41- "Yeah, forgot about acfan/Kakeng there. It was an awfully small notch. Smile Put him on at the same level as White: I expect that I'll be satisfied with Kakeng's behavior, and that will be that."

42- Asks Theo who is scum?
43- I'm no newbie!!! and, the timing of acfan's departure is a minor tell.
44- Looks over white's links, and is satified that white isn't scum.
45- Good bit of metagaming here clearing up suspicions about acfan's departure.
46- *awaits*
47- No excuse, MoS! /w smiley
48- ^^not an attack, an attempt at humor^^
49- Notes that humor is a scumtell...
50- Where is Tar?
51- "Ah, I see. Ok."
52- prods Tar
53- Kakeng is missing and it ain't right!
54- MoS was more suspicous before he got attacked than during.
55- whoaletmereadwhatmossaid
56- Jokingly tells tyhess not to joke.
57- He's with white on self imposed DL
58- Shakes head (rightfully so) @ pwayne for being suspicious about his random BS vote.
59- Is tyhess scummy or newbie?

[Trojan Horse]

Decided to look at vollkan first. Man... I had no idea these things take so long! I've gotten through 40-some posts by vollkan, and already I'm getting tired out. I need a break.

I was thinking that it would be best for me not to post any part of vollkan's breakdown until pwayne is done with mine, so that things don't get too confusing. But I noticed that pwayne said he won't be done until Monday. Hmm... eh, probably best if I wait anyway. Then I'll be able to post the full breakdown of vollkan (and possibly part of pwayne's) in one shot.

[vollkan]

To everybody attempting PBPAs. For your own convenience and so that the post numbers are accurate it is a good idea to use this Mafia Thread Parser

To operate it,
1) Enter the thread's home URL in the first field. For us it is (remove quote marks) "http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6131"
2) Enter the name of the player you wish to PBPA. This is not needed, though if you just want to see votes. But if you enter someone's name ALL their posts will be shown in full
3) Click the little box to ignore guardian ^^

Someone I am in a game with named Gemelli developed this as a means of sifting through things and I use it all the time. The other nifty thing is that all post numbers are hyperlinked to the thread. So, if you read something that makes no sense out of context, you just click the link and it takes you to the actual forum.

[pwayne66]

Are you effing kidding me? Awesome... at little late, but awesome for future reference. I might even use it to run what I have of TH just with real post numbers. Anyway, off for St. Louis. Have a good weekend.

[Oman]

I'm throwing some more townie brownies around. These ones are going to vollkan for what seem to be very logical and well looked at PBPA, he doesn't inflate anything on me and doesn't deminish it either.

I would say that deserves the brownies.

[vollkan]

And now the final installment:

PBPA of Theopor

74: Apologises for forgetting the game
81: Promise of content
132: Balanced attack on BS. Votes Pwayne for defending BS and for opposing pressuring tactics.
136: Doesn't like Pwayne's recent list and affirms his disagreement with Pwayne on pressuring.
139: Says the tone of Oman was an over-reaction. This is..strange.
143: Turns out the tone wasn't that bad after all. Affirms suspicion of Pwayne but unvotes because of Oman's suggestion that Pwayne has a defensive playstyle meta.
177: The Pwayne thing was a "misunderstanding". Acknowledges that he is under suspicion for it but "at least it generated discussion". Is neutral on tyhess and thinks ac1983 is scummy.
179: Corrects somebody
189: Asks why ac1983 wants to defend him so much
216: Wants to hear from ac1983
252: Votes ac1983
264: Thinks ac1983 is not going to reappear.
290: Still waiting for ac1983
303: Can't be arsed doing anything until ac1983 shows up
311: Won't comment on everything until ac1983 responds. Quotable quote:

Day One I'd rather concentrate on one or two people than analyse and comment on everything going on, doing it only makes you night kill fodder.

That makes me tingle a little
326: Reaffirms he is going to use a narrow scope, at least until ac1983 posts.
330: Accuses tyhess of fence-sitting
332: Questions flame
341: Wonders if tyhess made a town-tell slip
344: He didn't mean a scummy slip, just an error
346: Orders Oman to stop "fishing" because Oman wondered why Theo said it was a town-tell. An odd accusation from Theo
355: "I don't need to explain why I think that particular post of Tyhess strikes me as a townish thing. It's pretty obvious really." Is not budging until ac1983 posts
373: Misrepresents tyhess.

Seriously though theo wtf are you talking about.....

I was starting to think that you might be protown,

[theo's underlining] but then you post this and no one else can figure out what your talking about??? With 10 other players, not counting you or myself, you would figure one of them would know what your talking about. Please explain.

My underlining, is this despite your list of suspicion? And the fact your vote is on me.

As for the cult issue which everyone has gone ape at me over, Tyhess included, it was the fact Tyhess commented that the cultist knows that only one other person wasn't town. When obviously there's two mafioso. Seems pretty stupid if your scum and can't remember how many of em they are, meh maybe I'm reading too much into it, Tyhess's play doesn't exactly deserve a pass does it.

The underlining thing is my concern. Theo makes it look like tyhess is voting for someone that tyhess considers to be pro-town which, in fact, is ignoring that tyhess was basically saying "You were beginning to look protown"
374: Clarifies something
375: (rightly) Accuses flame of being evasive.
376: Responding to a question from me about the weird "fishing" thing, theo says: "fishing for information". He then goes and says Oman is good for building discussion. More weirdness. If it was just fishing for information, why bother ordering Oman to quit.
392: More "waiting for ac1983"
393: "I don't like Flameaxe's or Blackstrike's lack of content lately either." That's the entirety of it.
395: Wants to hear from his main suspects ac1983, flame and BS
400: More suspicion of BS
404: Criticises white, promises content
407: Promises content, and suspicion of ac1983
425: promises content
426: The promised content.
Things to note:

ac1983

Criticises ac1983 for suggesting BS is "pro-town but flawed". Theo says: "Blackstrike is pro-town. Nothing else. " This contradicts his earlier stuff about suspecting BS. Accuses ac1983 of picking on an easy target, one that Theo himself was picking on. ac1983 gets 8/10

CKD

He likes CKD, mostly because their views align. 3/10

BS

"more silly than anti-town" 5/10

Flame

A well-deserved 6/10 for lurking and being useless.

MoS

Likes MoS. 3/10
550: promises content
590: promises content
647: Doesn't like ac1983 still, and TH is now giving off scumvibes
655: Won't let kak off the hook for ac1983
664: More anti-ac
706: Votes TH for the "horrible" post 699
FTR

Alright then MoS, I'll commit. Not happy about it, but I'll commit.

Vote tyhess

Never was happy with all of his bandwagon hopping at the start of the game. Could just be newbishness, but it could also be an opportunistic scum, hiding behind the fact that he's a newb.

Sure hope I got it right.

718: Thinks TH is picking on an easy target
723: Thinks TH is scum
730: TH has said he sees nobody worth lynching other than tyhess, MoS, CKD and White. and theo responds with "Not even ac/kakeng?" More oddness..
731: At least TH stuck his neck out
738: TH and kak are major suspects
741: Asks white whether he thinks TH is scum
746: Prods tar and kak. Wants TH lynched
829: TH and kak are scummiest
876:

Unvote, Vote Kakeng

I'm still pretty happy with thinking Trojan's scum but AC1983's replacement Kakeng is probably even more likely scum with his great lack of input.

TH is scummy, but kak is more likely to be scum because he is not giving input.
879: Comments on ac1983's lack of content
914: Wants kak lynched
916: "I think it's more likely he's scum. Simple."
920: Wants kak lynched for lurking. Distinguishes from Tar and BS because they were, respectively, more pro-town in appearance and foolish. This is also a strange post; don't know why it bugs me though.
921: Wants kak lynch, and prefers TH to Tar
952: Criticises me saying Tar is a known vanilla
961: Asks Pwayne to name his quotees.
973: Tar doesn't deserve a free pass
975: Doesn't want Tar lynched
977: "Pwayne - Do you think Kakeng is more/less scummy than Tarharlindur?"
979" "And Blackstrike?"
1013: This is quotable

What I see against Kakeng is that he is lurking. Is this a good enough reason to lynch? What do we learn from his death?

And he's scummy and he's not very helpful and ac1983 fell down a big hole got outed as likely scum and left. And yeh I've got a fetish for him because I think he's scum, the only other person who concerns me as much is Trojan, mind I don't like Oman much lately either.

He's really egging on the kak lynch and being rather ambiguous about things. Also, leaves his options open for Trojan and Oman. Doesn't explain why Kak is scummy or why Oman is.

1019: Is pissed off at the games length
1024: Votecount
1027: "we'll have to wait and see"
1028: Didn't see white's unvote
1048: Unvotes kak on claim. Prods flame
1068: Agrees with MoS on kak. Also suggests suspicion of TH and flame
1071: Votes kak
1080-1094: Complaining about flame's lurkin
1111: Time for a reread
1166: is really bugged by Oman
1192: Promises content
1203: tyhess PBPA. Thinks is decent overall
1204: A correction
1205: Flame PBPA. "I'm pretty unconvinced if he's actually scum being useless or town being useless."
1211: Promises more content
1212: Likes my flame/TH post
1216: TH PBPA. "This guy just strikes me as scum, in every way. " Votes
1218: Promises content
1232: Prods TH and flame
1237: Is pleased with TH's response and swaps to flame
1248: Probes TH for content
1251: Points out flame's hypocrisy regarding MoS not being helpful
1286: Is having problems reading. Wants masslcaim
1289: Retracts massclaim call "ought to read first". Promises content

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A definite shift towards becoming more helpful over time. The early blind focus on ac1983 is strange, but not "scummy". Just weird. There are a few other oddities which are suspicious in aggregate, but nothing that I would be prepared to vote on. His latter content is definitely very helpful. I'll say 55%, mainly just for the early stuff.

[vollkan]

Gack! Not the final installment ; I was being too optimistic. I still need to do Tar, TH and Pwayne.

I might go lazy and not do TH since he has been done adequately by theo.

[Trojan Horse]

Besides, pwayne is working on mine. So don't worry about it.

Just do Tar's. His is easy. We can fight over who will do one for pwayne later.

I've got about 20 posts to go for vollkan. I'll post the full PBPA either later today or tomorrow.

[vollkan]

Okay, I'll just do Tar's then and we'll work out who can do Pwayne's later.

Expect it sometime later on today.

[Trojan Horse]

Whew! Done. Here’s the PBPA of vollkan. Hopefully what I say makes some sense; wasn't sure just how much I needed to say on each post.

(I hope someone with more time on their hands can do pwayne, since I really don’t want to do another one of these.)

Here we go...

5- random votes me, does the obligatory joke about my username
20- points out Dr. Blackstrike's “edited by” was part of his signature
34- says vanillas should avoid having to claim, as they would likely be culted; says we may have no choice but to lynch a claimed townie; goes after Dr. BS for saying that townies should try to get killed by scum
35- goes after Dr. BS for more scummy logic
40- corrects someone who says we have 4-6 vanillas total (we have 5-7)
69- doesn't like Flameaxe's vote on Dr. BS; votes Flameaxe
71- more arguments against Flame
77- points out problems which may arise if a vanilla claims
79- quotes CKD, who said no one should claim day 1 at all; vollkan points out that a protown power role SHOULD claim if at -1
94- clarifies reasons for vote on Flameaxe
110- 2 votes on tyhess isn't much of a wagon
118- says that some newbies fear saying anything, for fear it'll be turned against them (says he had that fear as a newbie, and Rump apparently has it now)
125- reclarifies vote on Flame; asks for opinions from tyhess
138- quotes theo, who said that he didn't like pwayne defending Dr. BS; points out that pwayne wasn't the only one defending him
142- Oman didn't like theo's vote on pwayne; theo doesn't like Oman's reaction; vollkan doesn't like theo's reaction
145- now votes for theo
147- looks at theo's list of suspects, says he sees nothing odd about it
159- gets newbie read on tyhess- more so than a scummy read
162- says cult leader will (for the moment) act protown, since there are no recruits to protect yet- cult will probably act scummier later on
164- clarifies 162
166- more clarification
178- quotes acfan's FoS of Oman (acfan doesn’t like Oman’s case against theo), asks for more info; mistakenly attributes the FoS to tyhess, instead of acfan
180- corrects mistake in 178
185- tyhess jumped on vollkan for the mistake in 178, vollkan wonders if tyhess is being serious; vollkan asks MoS for opinions beyond "one line remarks about the number of people here"
187- Oman wants acfan to pick someone scummier than theo- vollkan wants acfan to clarify his comment, but says acfan doesn’t need to pick someone scummier
193- quotes an apparent overreaction from tyhess (people didn’t like the fact that tyhess wanted to edit a post); quotes my comment about tyhess being a major newb, says “Newb..not scum.”
199- clarifies 193; says that tyhess could be newbscum, puts FoS on tyhess
200- asks tyhess to clarify his overreaction
202- more comments for tyhess- apparently I was the only one that spoke about tyhess’s attempt to edit
205- apparently theo mentioned tyhess’s edit attempt also, but passed no judgment
207- Dr. BS’s “edit sig” had been mentioned before, but not as evidence of scumminess
218- MoS is now talking about his own style of play- vollkan not satisfied with that
220- Oman votes MoS- vollkan wants to know why
224- not satisfied with Oman’s explanation; puts FoS on Oman
226- still apparently not satisfied; asks MoS about Flameaxe and theo (whom MoS said seemed “genuine”)
232- satisfied with MoS’s response; Oman is making vollkan’s “brain hurt”
240- still wondering about Oman’s suspicion of MoS
269- White replaces in; vollkan wants to give him a chance to read before we argue with him
309- vollkan’s first scumdar:

My scumdar:

Mastermind of Sin:

Lurker and then just posted theory stuff. Things seem to have sparked off with #209 which was the “Theo and Flame seem genuine” post. Evidently, people think he has been overly-defensive, though I am a little unsure as to whether I would react differently if someone accused me of having a "developed plan". I don't think the suspicion of him is unreasonable or baseless, but I don't feel strongly about MoS yet.

Oman:

I noticed, as White has, that Oman seems to agree with me a lot. I was a little off-put by his “developed plan” thing, hence my FoS, but his subsequent explanation of it being “developed stance” made it slightly more sensible. A few little things here and there, but I don’t suspect him to any significant degree.

ac1983fan:

Lurker; nothing to say.

Dr. Blackstrike:

Newbish lurker. I never really developed any suspicion for him, mainly because he was so quick to admit his error with regards to that plan.

curiouskarmadog:

Seems pro-town. My scumdar hasn’t hit any pings yet for CKD.

pwayne66:

I was in agreement with him on the BS thing and was pleased he stopped the BS wagon. I think White is correct regarding the pacifism thing and sometimes taking things personally, but I am willing to put it down to playstyle more than scumminess.

tyhess:

Numerous scummy actions, but also a complete newb. He has suspicion from me, but I need to see how things develop.

Trojan Horse:

Seems legit; no pinging as of yet.

Flameaxe:

I suspected him early on, but by slipping out of the game everything has progressed beyond that point. I will be watching flame or his replacement.

White (r. Rump-Wat):

Very strong contributor and is doing well at moving discussion forward, which can only be a good thing.

theopor_COD:

When I voted him, he was being slippery as all hell. Has been rather lurkish since then and I really would like to see some more discussion to either confirm or diminish my suspicions.

315- wonders why tyhess says his vote on theo could “change quickly”- possibly “trying to give yourself a way out to jump on a wagon”
347- doesn’t like tyhess’s suggestion for everyone to post top 3 suspects, since scum could exploit that. Wants pressure put on theo, tyhess, and MoS.
349- doesn’t seem to like Oman’s new vote on theo
351- responds to Oman’s scumdar
354- satisfied by a clarification from Oman
360- tyhess made a mistake, saying that cultist “knows that all but one person is protown”; theo called the mistake a town-tell; vollkan says could be an error by town or scum
361- cross-posts with pwayne; Oman asked theo for clarification about why tyhess’s mistake was a town-tell, then theo said Oman was “fishing”; now vollkan doesn’t get why theo accused Oman of fishing
366- still wondering why theo used the word “fishing”
369- tyhess wants us to work together and to narrow down our suspects; vollkan asks how he wants us to “work together”
372- points out problems with narrowing down the suspect list
424- looks at MoS’s latest scumdar, doesn’t like MoS’s comment against him; FoSes MoS
435- comments on MoS’s apparent “trap” to catch scum by acting a bit scummy, thus coaxing scum to jump on his wagon
453- not convinced by case against MoS; also not convinced that MoS’s plan would help
459- wants more pressure put on MoS; mistakenly says MoS is at -1
461, 464, 470- more pressure on MoS
474- MoS, now being bandwagoned, is not happy about not being asked to claim by anyone; vollkan said he wanted to look for reactions to MoS being at -1 before asking MoS to claim
476- vollkan not voting MoS, but should still ask for a claim “when the time is appropriate”
479- agreed with my comment that MoS only got to 5 votes, not 6
486- admits that he was the one that mistakenly said MoS was at -1; wonders about the “flurry” of unvotes after that mistake
490- points out that Oman said he wouldn’t ask for a claim until -1, and that Oman said he wouldn’t take such a claim seriously
496- asks Oman why he’d ask for a claim if he wouldn’t take it seriously
497- corrects mistyped phrase in 496
549, 552, 544- vollkan is confused about my reasons for voting MoS; MoS quotes me to clarify what my reasons were
565- expects to hear from Flame within a day, based on Flame’s post in another thread
570- tyhess says MoS hasn’t defended himself; vollkan curious as to what MoS HASN’T defended himself against yet
575- deadline looming; wants more discussion; prefers lynch to no lynch
597- wants an extension
620- MoS said that those who didn’t vote for the extension are slightly likelier to be scum; vollkan calls that “WIFOMic thinking”
631- wonders if Flameaxe “has any proactive interest in this game”
636- MoS said not asking for the extension is a minor tell, but vollkan doesn’t call it a tell at all
642- quotes Flameaxe saying he doesn’t have much time for a re-read
646- mocks one of Flame’s sarcastic posts
669- asks Flame to clarify his vote on White; also asks if deadline was extended
672- votes Flame since he refuses to clarify; looks like Flame’s vote is OMGUS
677- says vote on Flame is to pressure Flame into detailing his vote on White
688- more pressure on Flame, who still isn’t clarifying
714- extremely suspicious of my vote against tyhess, which I cast under pressure from MoS
717- doesn’t want me to vote/unvote based on pressure
722- quotes 717, wants me to respond
755- why on earth is MoS random voting?
760- TROJ. STOP JOKING.
795- wants input from Tar and Kakeng
820- agrees that we should try to settle things a couple of days before the deadline
839- pwayne looked at two earlier bandwagons (MoS and Dr. BS); vollkan wonders why he didn’t consider the Flameaxe bandwagon
844- looking at bandwagons not all that useful “when you don’t know anybody’s alignment”
854- says lynching a lurker costs us some info
860- not satisfied with Kakeng’s contribution (rightfully so, IMO)
862- wants clarification from Kakeng
898- mad that Tar claimed vanilla: “we now have a sitting duck for the cult.”
900- Kakeng suggested Tar could be a protown power role, pretending to be vanilla; vollkan doubts that; vollkan doesn’t like Kakeng jokingly claiming vanilla
951- gives reasons for/against lynching Tar; concludes we shouldn’t lynch Tar; FoSes pwayne for pushing a lynch of Tar
962- response to theo- said he thought Tar was likely a vanilla, but not a confirmed vanilla
969- wants Oman to lay off the “brownies” (hee-hee)
992- breaks down the numbers regarding a possible Tar lynch; concludes a Tar lynch is bad; votes pwayne for his stance
998- clarifies vote on pwayne
1017- unvotes pwayne, gives second scumdar:

The scale I will be using is 0% = Absolutely town, 100% = Absolutely scum

MoS

- I didn't have strong suspicions of him early on in the height of the wagoning with his ploy. Since then, he has been participating well. Slightly scummy, but I think more likely town. 35%.

Oman

- A few little things earlier (most notably the "developed plan" farrago). He hasn't been very helpful. 65%.

Kakeng

- Well, our lurky lurker ac1983 was replaced by a lurkier lurker. Completely unhelpful and has actually refused to post (the whole "It's still plenty of time" thing). I'd be happy with his lynch out of a combination of his lurking and obstinacy. 60%

Tarhalindur

- I was among those who weren't sold on the BS wagon. At the time, it seemed reasonable, given that we hadn't properly analysed the reality. I believe his vanilla claim; his actions make no sense at all otherwise. Having said that, his recruitment is very likely so I will be watching him like a hawk. 30%

CKD

- In my last scumdar, I said he seemed pro-town and I maintain that here. I don't get very many pings at all. 20%

Pwayne66

- I didn't have much of a read of him in my last scumdar. He was ambiguous. His latest pushing of the Tar lynch hiked up my suspicion considerably. He has since dropped it so

Unvote

. 75%

Tyhess

- What I said in my last scumdar remains unaltered: "Numerous scummy actions, but also a complete newb. He has suspicion from me, but I need to see how things develop." 60%

Trojan Horse

- A lot of small things aggregating from him
, but nothing earth-shattering. 65%.

Flameaxe

- I didn't like him early on. His only post in this whole Pwayne-Tar affair was an "I told you so". His previous posts were all useless one-liners. 70%.

White

- Forceful, direct and active (sounds like a shampoo ) Maybe a bit aggressive at times, but I often get accused of the same thing when I move into an attack on people, so I feel comfortable attributing this to playstyle. 30%

Theopor_COD

- Not very much help. His most recent stuff has been pushing for Kakeng and entirely ignoring the wagon on Pwayne. If Pwayne comes up scum, I think Theo is a potential partner. 65%

1021- not happy about length of game; wants to push things along; votes Kakeng
1025- points out that Kakeng is at 5 votes (theo thought it was 6); wants Kakeng to claim
1026- Kakeng’s townie claim must have been a joke (had a smiley)
1030- bit of a “mux-ip”
1033- wants Kakeng to claim
1037- unvotes; not happy about having a claimed vanilla and a claimed roleblocker
1041- tyhess not happy that Kakeng was asked to claim; vollkan’s reply: “You would rather we lynched a power role?”
1045- Flameaxe #2 on his list, and is lurking; would be happy with pwayne lynch also, but votes Flameaxe
1052- tyhess still saying that he doesn’t want to force roleclaims; said he’d “rather lynch a roleblocker than ask for a claim; vollkan FoSes tyhess
1054, 1056- still arguing with tyhess
1058- it’s WIFOM if Kakeng survives the night; says we should just proceed as normal if that happens
1062- asks me to clarify my latest vote on tyhess
1067- MoS votes Kakeng; vollkan prefers Flameaxe, but will vote Kakeng to avoid a no lynch
1078- time running out, votes Kakeng
1081- more reason to worry about Flame’s lurking- he “lurked his way to victory” in another game
1084- not buying the claim that Flameaxe is busy, since he posted multiple times elsewhere
1087- asked Flameaxe why he posted in other threads but not here
1089- doesn’t like the reply: “Because they were more important at the time.”
1093- clarifies theo’s question to Flameaxe (theo asked Flame where he stood, Flameaxe said “On…?” and vollkan said “The imminent deadline.”)
1098- still prefers Flameaxe lynch
1106- switches vote from Kakeng to Flameaxe, but will switch back to avoid no lynch (thing is, Kakeng already hammered himself)
1115- 2 kills night 1; argues against tyhess’s idea that second one was from an SK; must be from a vig; gives some odds breakdowns
1122- says that death of cult leader probably didn’t in and of itself prevent a recruiting; mistakenly says endgame with 1 townie & 1 cultie is a draw (mod later clarifies that cultie would win)
1134- denies having been recruited (MoS, tyhess, and pwayne all suggested that possibility); vollkan’s third scumdar:

I am not now and have never been a member of the cult. I was not recruited yesterday. That's really all I can say. There is no case for me to rebut, other than that I have been "too townie".

Anyway, my alignment list thing with %s. My last post of this nature was in Post #1017:

MoS

: No change from last time in terms of my level of suspicion. The Kakeng thing is a bit of a null to me right now, though it might become relevant later on. 35%

Oman

: As with my last scumdar, Oman had a few tells early on and was unhelpful. Nothing has happened to shift this. 65%

Tarhalindur

: I believed his vanilla claim, so my feeling is that he is either vanilla or CR right now. Just going by his behaviour, 30%.

pwayne66

: The tar lynch thing was very scummy yesterday. He dropped it, but I still suspect him for it. 70%

tyhess

: Scummy actions but very newbish. 60%

Trojan Horse

: Numerous scumtells aggregating up. 70%

Flameaxe

: Lurking, unhelpful and scummy. This guy is topping my list. 75%.

theopor_COD

: Not very much change since yesterday. 55%

I intend on doing a reread of Flameaxe to reassess whether my suspicion is actually warranted.

1170- Tar is probably townie or cultist; votes Flameaxe
1177, 1180, 1183, 1188- confusion over what tyhess said was a scumtell; FoSes tyhess, then unFoSes once the confusion is resolved
1196- doesn’t like Oman’s “casual support” of my wanting a Flameaxe lynch
1210- goes through the mafia parser, sees an apparent connection between me and Flameaxe
1221- doesn’t like my using Flameaxe’s “Town being useless” line; doesn’t like that Oman voted me because I suggested doing a breakdown of theo’s posts
1228- MoS quotes tyhess and Oman, and says “uh-huh”; vollkan asks what the connection was between the two quotes
1238- asks me to clarify part of my response to theo’s breakdown of me
1244, 1246- Flameaxe not being helpful
1257- I pointed out that Flame was at -1; vollkan wonders why I didn’t ask for a claim
1260- I pointed out that he already claimed; vollkan satisfied
1274- Day 3; vollkan’s fourth scumdar:

Right, first up we are in 4:2 LYLO now, which means

extreme caution

is needed. I'll remind you all: A wagon over 2 votes could trigger a quick-hammering.

As for my scumdar:

Oman

- As I have been saying consistently now, Oman was unhelpful early on with a few tells. His hammer for flame was very odd. 70%

Tarhalindur

- Either vanilla or cultist. Either way, lynching him is a bad idea. On behaviour alone, 30%.

Pwayne

- His Tar vote was scummy. He has been of no real help and his flameaxe vote had very little reasoning behind it. 70%.

Trojan Horse

- Numerous small scum tells aggregated, but he cleared them up rather well yesterday. Still scummy, but significantly less so. 65%.

Theo

- Early on, he wasn't much help and I was pretty suspicious of him, particularly for going after Kakeng and ignoring Pwayne. Since then, his contributions have been solid and seemingly pro-town. Based on his early behaviour, I am not going to rule him out, but I do not suspect him highly either. 55%.

1276- breakdown of why we shouldn’t mass claim
1279- responds to Oman’s strange post (Oman must have misunderstood what happened at night)
1283- not happy with pwayne getting too emotional
1285- more arguing with pwayne; vollkan says he’ll do a PBPA of Oman
1290- PBPA of Oman
1292- clarifies earlier suspicions of Flameaxe; why does pwayne call vollkan’s Oman-pwayne theory “ridiculous”?
1299- more arguments with pwayne, including connections between Oman and pwayne
1302- more against pwayne
1304- satisfied with part of pwayne’s defense
1307- gives us the link to the mafia parser
1310- PBPA of theo
1311- who to do a PBPA for next?
1313- agrees to do Tar, the easy one

Conclusions: Let me just say that if vollkan is scum, he is sure hiding any connections between himself and his teammate very well. My scumdar is calling him “protown” all the way; and yet, because my scumdar has been proven very wrong already, I can’t help having some doubts. I may be fooled.

[vollkan]

PBPA of Dr. Blackstrike/Tarhalindur

13: Random vote for tyhess.
28: "any townie claim should be punishable by lynch." and "townies should try get killed by the mafia. It hurts the cult."
33: Affirms that townies should try to die
36: Stands corrected (after I argued against him)
38: Being killed is better than being recruited.
39: Wrongly says we have 4-6 vanillas.
41: Realises blunder after I point it out
43: "If a townie is killed in the night by the mafia, a power role has escaped for another night AND a potential cultist has been removed."
49: Says he doesn't want townies lynched, he just wants them to be killed by mafia. Votes flame because "I'm not sure I like how you play either. "
75: Thinks time has been wasted talking about him. Suggests dealing with mafia to get them to go after cult.
107: "Seems a bit odd that tyhess has gotten several votes on him in quick succession... "
146: FoSes Theo for exclusively picking on pwayne for defending BS
242: Promises content
272: Doesn't like White's attitude
295: Basically just playing the newbie card.
<Exit: Dr. Blackstrike>
<Enter: Tarhalindur>
607: Promises content
614: Strongly supports deadline extension
788: Promises content
801: Votes MoS because his playstyle is off
882: May need to be replaced
885: Votes kak. "When in doubt and close to deadline, voting for the largest bandwagon is rarely a bad idea."
887: Self-votes and claims vanilla
894: Unvotes
905: Realises error and says self-voting in his case is consistent with town play. Votes CKD.
910: Votes self-again because he is likely to be recruited, making him a better candidate than Kak.
1022: Joins kak bandwagon
1046: Unvotes again. Needs to look at flame
1079: Votes kak
1085: Flameaxe concerns him, but a lynch is better than a no lynch
1151: Votes flame
1154: Was just reaction testing. Unvotes
1164: Thinks flame is scum with Oman. Votes Oman because Oman criticised Tar for thinking he was invulnerable. This vote is odd, because he had been attacking flame more than Oman. Usually this would ring as a scumbuddy tell, but obviously that's impossible given flame's alignment. So, just odd.
1252: Promises content
1273: Suggests massclaim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Right, BS was a newb and he did play the newbie card a bit but, by and large, I don't think he was particularly scummy. Tar vote hops a lot, but that seems to just be a playstyle thing. There is the odd vote for Oman, that I really do not know what to make of. My gut feeling is that he is a recruit, just going by how the two most odd things, the Oman vote and the massclaim call, have occurred after N1. And, also, because I think his chronic lurking may be an effort in self-preservation, although it could just be vanilla boredom.

[Oman]

Thats a good point about Tar's weirdness occuring after N1. Though the recruit should be scumhunting, knowing that the scum will just endgame them.

With an assumed recruit and two mafia we are at:

1 : 2 : 3

If Tar is a recruit, its best we leave him alone and focus on the scum (for my money TH/Pwayne/Theo are the most likely).

[vollkan]

PBPA of Pwayne

7: Random votes CKD
16: Votes BS for the edit sig
17: Forgot to unvote. Votes BS
18: Unvotes
26: Thinks sig thing is amusing.
31: Thinks lynching townies is a bad idea, suggests lynching them the following day when they are more likely cult. This ignores the mafia.
32: Any roleclaim is bad
37: Affirms previous
45: Thinks that pressure on BS is counter-productive in making discussion
50: Setup speculation. Thinks our priority should be the cult.
51: More of the above
58: Doesn't like the BS wagon and thinks we are being too light on lurking
62: Thinks we should determine a course of action and deal with the lurkers rather than pursuing BS.
76: Orders that nobody claim vanilla until recruiter is dead.
96: Scumdar #1:

The world according to pwayne:

Mastermind of Sin- I'm not thrilled about his random vote in the middle of page 4 or his lack of an apology for his absence. It's not that I need an apology, or that accidents don't happen, It would just show some sort of interest in helping the town.

Oman- Can't get a good feel on him. Has posted calm and reasonable insight. Has his sights on Flameaxe and I don't know that I blame him.

ac1983fan- I can't anything here.

vollkan- seems legit. suspicions of flameaxe might be a little aggressive.

Dr. Blackstrike- early questions cast suspicions about his loyalty. I have no particular reason to believe him town but don't think that his question betray his allegiance.

curiouskarmadog- first to jump on Dr. BS and his questions were legit. May have stayed on the "Dr. BS bandwagon" too long though.

tyhess- continues to vote Dr. BS b/c he is "weird". This seems, well... weird.

Trojan Horse- seems intent on contributing to the discussion

Flameaxe- Seems a tad defensive. that's not scumtell but it should be noted. Like CKD, I can appreciate a little pressure on the doc intially, but he seems to try too hard too build a case that isn't there.

Rump-Wat- His "Flameaxe was suspicious and now isn't but initially it was a random vote" stance is bothersome. I would like to know specifically what was suspicious about flameaxe and what happened to stop the suspicion.

theopor_COD- was absent for quite a while and as far as I am concerned is still. Can't list any real pros or cons.

123: Wants explanation for someone's unvote
124: Crossposted
134: States that he was not defending BS, and was just seeking strategising.
149: Thinks bullying tactics can be abused.
155: Thinks Theo is either deliberately misrepresenting him, or is failing to understand things.
161: Acknowledges that Theo is just making an error after theo admits so
172: Prods ac1983fan to explain a vote and FoS
204, 206 - nothing
212: Thinks flame is scummy
243: An "I'm confused" post
247: Criticises MoS's insistence that Oman beat out a full case against him when Oman is abused for not accepting blindly that flame and theo are pro-town.
251: Voting |= wanting dead. Wonders why MoS thinks we should blindly accept statements that "X is pro-town"
257: Promises content
265-286: Arguing with White. Basically just over playstyle which makes it kind of ooc
287: New scumdar:

I lied. I put a quick one together today. I included my first list on page four and inserted any changes.

Mastermind of Sin- I'm not thrilled about his random vote in the middle of page 4 or his lack of an apology for his absence. It's not that I need an apology, or that accidents don't happen, It would just show some sort of interest in helping the town.

He has explained this and argued it with White. I never thought this action was scummy, only disrespectful. That said, I am much more concerned with his actions, evasiveness and defensiveness toward Oman.

Oman- Can't get a good feel on him. Has posted calm and reasonable insight. Has his sights on Flameaxe and I don't know that I blame him.

Also doesn't seem to take much seriously. This could pose trouble later on as it provides opprotunity to say "I was just playing then" if asked questions about actions.

ac1983fan- I can't anything here.

Nothing has changed here. This absolutley has to stop.

Vollkan- seems legit. suspicions of flameaxe might be a little aggressive.

Here, I agree with White. He is in a mediator role so far, and it bothers me. The tagteam action of MoS and himself against Oman, is troubling as well.

Dr. Blackstrike- early questions cast suspicions about his loyalty. I have no particular reason to believe him town but don't think that his question betray his allegiance.

needs to post more. Considering that he is on a lot of people's lists, he ought to be concerned with ridding himself of those suspicions. If he isn't, that seems suspicious.

curiouskarmadog- first to jump on Dr. BS and his questions were legit. May have stayed on the "Dr. BS bandwagon" too long though.

Nothing new IMO.

tyhess- continues to vote Dr. BS b/c he is "weird". This seems, well... weird.

Hasn't improved in my view.

Trojan Horse- seems intent on contributing to the discussion

No changes.

Flameaxe- Seems a tad defensive. that's not scumtell but it should be noted. Like CKD, I can appreciate a little pressure on the doc initially, but he seems to try too hard too build a case that isn't there.

Needs to be around more. I don't really hold the Dr. BS situation against him, but given the lack of anything else to judge, it's all I have.

Rump-Wat- His "Flameaxe was suspicious and now isn't but initially it was a random vote" stance is bothersome. I would like to know specifically what was suspicious about flameaxe and what happened to stop the suspicion.

Now White. If I had to guess, I would say protown. I can't imagine scum benefiting from bringing this much attention to themselves (WIFOM anybody?). Likes to stir the pot. I will be curious to see how this works out.

theopor_COD- was absent for quite a while and as far as I am concerned is still. Can't list any real pros or cons.

I am hard pressed to find anything either protown or controversial about this player.


Vote:MoS

PS. I realized that I forgot AC while I was typing this out. That speaks volumes to his/her contribution to this game.[/b]

316: More attacks on MoS. Confirms vote.
324: Nothing
333: Is voting MoS for evasiveness, not defensiveness
334: nothing
338: Affirms 333
359: Disagrees that Oman is fishing
364: Doesn't suspect theo for raising the fishing accusation
368: nothing
383: Supports the top three thing
389: Suspects MoS, Vollkan and tyhess. He's pretty vague. For this reason, he thinks the three most in need of pressure are MoS, theo and tyhess.
397, 398: nothing
440-469: Hates MoSes "scum are wagonning me" thing.
471: unvotes
520: Explains that he unvoted because he did not want a hammer of MoS
524-537: More squabbling with MoS over the wagon thing and MoS calling people protown without explaining
541: nothing
571: Thinks the MoS wagon has gotten opportunistic but it was initially legitimate.
547-612: nothing.
618: accuses TH of backpedalling
766: Promises content
790: Scumdar #3

My 4 most scummy- TH, tyhess, MoS, Flameaxe,

and in no particular order-

Mastermind of Sin- My thoughts are documented at length.

Oman- I haven't changed my position here either. At one point I said that I felt he a lackadaisical approach to the game, and White said he felt he took the game too serious. He posts alot of one liners and responds when asked to (which is more than I can say for most of the people here...) but hasn't seemed too keen on initiating conversation.

Kakeng (r. ac1983fan)- jury's out. Seems to be trying to reread (30+ pages...)

vollkan- initially scummy by association to MoS, IMO. If I were to be honest, I'm seeing nothing bad on him for now.

Tarhalindur (r. Dr. Blackstrike)- yup...

curiouskarmadog- rightfully calls me out for lurking after the Extension request. Does appear to me to be flying under the radar.

tyhess- Early bandwagoning. but his playstyle seems to be improving. Too little too late?

Trojan Horse- wishy washy. Vollkan said this "If I put a smiley face there it can't be held against me" I think this is spot on.

Flameaxe- I can understand not liking white, his aggressive gameplay or his demanding style. Its the overall lack of contribution that bothers me, not just your responses to white.

White (r. Rump-Wat)- overly-aggressive and at times distracting. Seems pro-town despite this because of his inquisitiveness and his insistence that we all answer all the question asked of us by everybody.

theopor_COD- I hate to say it, but after 30+ pages, I still don't have much of read on him. I'll go back and see what else I am able to come up with.

Vote:Trojan Horse

793-815: nothing
830: Quotable

Now it is time for my new theory which is actually MoS' theory on steroids:

Since at least one scum was on MoS's bandwagon:

Pwayne
thyess
white
trojan horse
Oman

it must be safe to assume that at lest one scum was on Dr. BS's bandwagon:

flameaxe
thyess
CKD
Trojan Horse

anything pop out? thyess and TH. hmmm...

832: Admits 830 was partly in jest
834: just posted 830 to make an observation
842-848: Nothing.
897: "if Tar lives past today he is going to be a cult member"
906: Supports Tar's lynch if "If it is between lynching a lurker for lurking or lynching somebody that we are likely going to have to lynch anyway. "
908: The awful zombie movie post. Votes Tar
911-918: nothing
923-927: Argues CL will target Tar
929: Compares cult targeting Tar to mafia targeting doctor
930: Lynching Tar removes a liability
935: Tar is best lynch today
942: Tar is scum tomorrow
948: MoS and CKD are opportunistic
949: Rejects a wifom accusation
959-960: acknowledges the wifom of lynching Tar
966-968: nothing
976: Argues with MoS on tar
978: Has no read on kak
980: thinks BS was "genuine and misunderstood"
982: Prods Oman for explanation
984: Oman doesn't have a clue
993: Acknowledges the implications of my numbers. Wants to know why I suspect him more than White/Tar
995: Understands the numbers
997-999: Admits folly and moves towards kak
1000: meta comment on kak
1003: Suggests we move for info maximisation
1005: ICANHASSCUMDAR #4

Mastermind of Sin- Pinged hard as early scum. Now I just think that he is abrasive. He has his infamous "I act scummy to lure scum" moment. I have come to believe that he made some serious errors early on and rather than fessing up, he created this bogus excuse.

Oman- Every bandwagon known to man. Has lots of FOS as a result. After today he's going to rightfully find himself in hot water.

Kakeng (r. ac1983fan)- What can I say. I think he is town via my gut.

vollkan- Still pinging scum to me, but I've got nothing, he does everything protown... a regular Mr. Robinson.

Tarhalindur (r. Dr. Blackstrike)- Yup. I defended BS earlier for saying what I am getting lynched for today. Its all ironic. Probably town.

curiouskarmadog- Seems genuine and consistant in his outrage. He did annoy me by challenging my Vanilla Tar logic. I still feel that he went out of his way to distort my position in the most unflattering light. I don't think it was malicious. We were both caught up in an emotive and contraversial debate.

tyhess- The jury is still out. He pings and then flies under the radar a bit.

Trojan Horse- I have a hard time reading him as well. Wishy-washy. Could be just impressionable town?

Flameaxe- This guy. Doesn't want to play by the same rules as the rest of us. Sticks in head in rarely and then only to make contentless posts. You think Kakeng is bad, this guy has done it the whole game.

White (r. Rump-Wat)- Pisses me off and rubs me the wrong way. That doesn't mean he is scum. It doesn't mean he is town either. Has a quirky fetish with knowing everybodies scumdars. This could be protown or proscum.

theopor_COD- speaking of quirky fetishes, this guy has been obsessed with getting AC/kakeng lynched since around page 5. He must be irked, b/c he almost got his wish until I came along.

1008: Accuses white of inconsistent suspicions
1009: Looks at main suspects:

Oman- I think that it is really really scummy that he jumps onto so many bandwagons b/c scummy people like to jump on lots and lots of bandwagons. Bandwagon hoping is a scummy thing to do.

tyhess- I think he is scummy. I have said so before. I think it is just as likely that he is making newbie mistakes.


Flameaxe- I think flameaxe is scummy. Not wanting to play by the same rules as everybody else is scummy. Making infrequent posts is scummy. Making contentless post is scummy. Some people think that Kakeng is scummy because they think that making contentless posts and lurking is scummy. I think Flameaxe is more scummy that kakeng is scummy because flameaxe has been scummy the whole game. That is scummy.

Trojan Horse- Being wishy-washy is scummy. Trojan Horse is wishy-washy, therefore, I will go out on a limb and say he is scummy.

...there you go.

1012-1039: nothing
1043: votes flame for active lurking
1099: Notes that MoS has been defending flame
1100: vote count
1102-1104: Doesn't like selfvote
1105: Thinks kakeng's claim rings true
1120: Criticises an attack by MoS on tyhess
1121: Wonders if tar recruited
1133: Scumdar #5

Mastermind of Sin - Scum. He jumped back on my radar. Yesterday, immediately after a bandwagon against Flameaxe started, he changed his stance to go after a very popular choice, Kakeng ( a diversion?) . This occurred after he passionately defended the call to get a role claim (so much so he voted for tyhess for disagreeing with him). So what's the point of getting a role claim if your going to kill a power role anyway? He then goes on to defend Flameaxe's absence (he also defended Flameaxe in his first few posts. Oman called him out on it. This is when MoS famously decided to stop answering questions in order to flush out scum.) Today he lists flameaxe as scummy with no explanation (distancing?).

Oman - Admittedly, I mixed him up with tyhess on my last scumdar. I'm on the fence with Oman.

vollkan - Again, not much to say. I got heckled for saying in effect that he was so townie that he had to scum. Now it seems that he is so townie that he has to be cult makes more sense. I'd like to see him come under some pressure.

Tarhalindur (r. Dr. Blackstrike) - I'm convinced he is/was town. Maybe cult now, but the way I see it, he is not a priority.

tyhess - I'm off the fence. tyhess is town.

Trojan Horse - I didn't like his vote on tyhess considering that TH acted like tyhess's position was ridiculous despite having held the same position in the past. I would likely lean towards scum here.

Flameaxe - scum.

theopor_COD - I'm on the fence here.

1137: MoS is changing on flame
1146-1147: nothing
1158: Attacks Tar
1159: Votes flameaxe "for reasons I have already stated." This is the vote that I had problems with
1161: Explains vote was partly for active lurking
1213: promises content
1255: Doesn't like flame's style. (Frankly, I don't think anybody could possibly like flame's play)
1272:

2 players (vollkan and theo) were in on both townie lynches. Oman was only on Flameaxes but his hammer vote seemed really contrived to me. Those would be my top three at this point. I am actively going back to review NK's to see if there is anything to be learned there.

1281: Wonders why I suspect him
1282: Clarifies
1284: Argues with me on the flame vote
1288: opposes mass claim
1291-1294: the argument with me
1296: notes that Oman gave brownies to CKD and MoS
1298: Supports PBPAs
1301-1303: More of the argument
1305: TH PBPA
1308: About the Gemelli Parser
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As I have already said, my biggest problems with Pwayne are the vanilla lynching support (which he has made an explanation for) and the flame vote. He has made many posts in this game, of significantly varying helpfulness. One comment I would make is that the Oman-Pwayne links don't flow from Pwayne to Oman. Pwayne is kind of vague to neutral on Oman.

[vollkan]

Scumdar percentages at this point in time:

(See PBPA end analyses for justifications)
Oman. 65%
Tarhalindur. 40%*
pwayne66. 70%
Trojan Horse. 70% **
theopor_COD. 55%

* I think Tar is a recruit, based on the weirdness. However, his own behaviour in sum is about 40%. BS struck me as a genuine newb and Tar hasn't set me off.

[vollkan]

EBWOP:

I forgot to conclude the double asterisks on TH

** Reasoning on TH in post 1274

[vollkan]

Woo, quadrupost!

Guardian, would you be so kind as to prod thepor and Tar with a sharp pike or, failing that, a PM?

Mod Edit: done.

[Oman]

I agree that Tar is most likely the recruit.

[vollkan]

Tar being the recruit would also explain his lurking. He basically needs a string of No Lynches in order to have any hope of success. The best way to achieve a No Lynch is to prevent the town from being informed enough to make a lynch.

[Oman]

Its a point, but as a now survivour, he has to look just townie enough to avoid lynch and just scummy enough to avoid NK.

[vollkan]

My numbers were off in the last post.

He doesn't need a "string" of no lynches; he only needs one. In fact, more than one will cause him to lose, and the mafia to win.