Open 32 - Pick Your Poison Mafia (Game Over!), before 470

[Shanba]

I don't see Jack as scum, at all. Bookitty is more gut.

[Rishi]

I didn't see Jack as scum, but I am less sure about Ms Piggy or White. That's what makes it hard.

[Shanba]

Ms Piggy is a non-starter, as she was clearly a terrible player.

[Rishi]

Ms Piggy is a non-starter, as she was clearly a terrible player.

Good point.

I do still want to hear from White. Is he the only living playing who hasn't posted on Day 4?

[Shanba]

Yeah, it looks like it.

[Bookitty]

I'm going to tentatively say that I don't think JDodge is scum. His interactions with Mneme were inconclusive (as is most everything about Mneme, I think) but he put the second vote on Setael and seemed certain of her guilt after Patrick placed the first one. I don't see scum doing that to a partner at that stage, though as always I could be wrong.

Rishi has been oddly conciliatory, and White has been persistently absent. As I said, in my eyes, Guardian and Shanba are cleared, based on their interactions with Setael. Patrick's comment about Setael's "bussing" of Mneme seems an unlikely thing for the third scum to say about the second, when it turns out to be true. So in my eyes Patrick is nearly cleared as well.

We're in good shape, and that's true even if I'm lynched. I don't wish to be lynched, but if that happens, we still have either a cop or a roleblocker (as I understand the setup). Even with a mislynch I think we're in really good shape, so I'm not too worried about trying to defend myself at the moment.

Regardless, I think town should look hard at Rishi and White. I have already posted my suspicions of White, but my suspicions of Rishi are more general and based on a certain general "trying to get along with everyone" style of posting that I believe to be a more basic scumtell. (If requested, I can provide examples of this. I am assuming everyone remembers though.)

unvote; vote Rishi

[Rishi]

Hmm... I'm at L -2. That's fine, but I think we need to hear from White or his replacement, since at least a couple of us found him scummy.

We get three lynches left in the game. If you guys think I am one of the three most scummy, then you should lynch me. At least it will narrow down the list of candidates.

I'm wondering if the last power-role should claim? It will at least clear one townie, which is helpful. And if the last role is a cop, then it could clear several people.

[Thesp]

Day 4 Official Vote Count

Bookitty

- 1 (Guardian)

Rishi

- 2 (JDodge, Bookitty)

Not Voting

- 4 (Patrick, Rishi, Shanba, White)

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

Prodding White.

[Patrick]

I'm wondering if the last power-role should claim? It will at least clear one townie, which is helpful. And if the last role is a cop, then it could clear several people.

If we'd come into today with both poweroles, I'd probably have suggested a massclaim, in the hope of clearing enough people to force a win. As it is, I don't think we need to have a claim just yet. It might happen today, but doesn't have to be right away. On a slightly related note,

Mod

: Are the mafia forced to nightkill?

[Bookitty]

I'm guessing the final role is a roleblocker, based on the available options (I could be wrong). If that is the case, then I would prefer the person not claim.

If the final role is a cop with an innocent on someone, it's better not to claim, I think. Only if you are a cop with a guilty on someone should you claim, because (at least as far as I can see) that wins the game for us right there.

Just my opinion, though.

[Patrick]

Bookitty, I think it's dangerous to be calling anyone cleared right now. I do think Guardian and Shanba are likely town, but I've been bitten more than once by clearing people prematurely. I also think White is likely protown, if only for Jack's posts. White's posts haven't done much for me, but I know that he's been legitimately absent at least for a while now. I'm mildly suprised that some people have White near the top of their lists.

Good chance the last scum is in (Bookitty, JDodge, Rishi). I may need a closer look before voting one of them. I think xyzzy/Bookitty has the most connections with Setael, but her last few posts make me not want to vote her for now.

In Post 255 which is Setael's entry to the game, she talks alot about how the swing voters away from xyzzy are scummy, and suggests that the mafia may have been protecting him. She then proceeds to attack people who she thinks are scummy swing voters (Shanba, Schiz). It seems like she's going after possible buddies of xyzzy, without going after xyzzy at all. I could be misunderstanding her wording, but it seems like her attacks on Shanba and schiz rely on xyzzy being scum to really work. I think that's a connection with xyzzy.

Setael's comments in Post 440 about xyzzy looks like classic scum talking about a partner. I think I mentioned this yesterday already. Pretty much takes the easy road and doesn't make any final assessment of him, whilst asking others to give him a case to respond to. Also some deflection away from xyzzy and onto JDodge in the event that we go for a lurker lynch.

Bookitty was also nowhere on the Setael wagon and provided some defences for Setael. Could have been just misguided, but it's worth noting. Solid candidate based on interactions, and I haven't really found any comments between xyzzy/Bookitty and known scum that suggest they aren't paired. Her posts are quite detailed and analytical, which I like, but I'm often swooned by people who post alot, so I'm not giving it as much weight.


JDodge is still hard to read. I've seen scum try to cruise by using the playstyle excuse before. On rereading, I think his day 1 was ok. He didn't really do anything on day 2 at all though, apart from refusing to talk about himself, then hammering mneme out of nowhere.

I'm going to tentatively say that I don't think JDodge is scum. His interactions with Mneme were inconclusive (as is most everything about Mneme, I think) but he put the second vote on Setael and seemed certain of her guilt after Patrick placed the first one. I don't see scum doing that to a partner at that stage, though as always I could be wrong.

Which one of his votes on Setael? (I think both were actually third votes btw). The second one might be a point in favour but doesn't impress me that much when he doesn't explain why and his last post was an attempt to start a bandwagon on Shanba instead.

Other than that, the only thing I find helpful to look at is Setael's assessment of JDodge, in which she said he was probably town, which seems pretty generous. I'll try and take a look at Rishi's posts when I get the chance.

--------------
Final random thought, is it worth speculating on who Thin Man might have protected night 2? When he commented on all the players day 3, he thought Jack and Rishi were "blatantly town". My guess would be one of those. Leaning towards Jack/White. It's possible the kill was stopped by a roleblocker though.

[Bookitty]

You're correct, Patrick. Shanba unvoted Setael after JDodge voted her, so I missed the fact that there were already two votes on Setael when JDodge voted her the second time. (The first time he made the comments about OMGUS and then said he was confusing two games, or something -- I didn't really count that as an actual vote.)

I do not mean to imply that anyone is cleared or confirmed town. I'm commenting strictly on my views.

I thought Setael was town, and I thought Guardian was scum. I know I was wrong about Setael, and I believe I was wrong about Guardian, due to his interactions with Setael. I could be wrong on that, but I do not think that I am. I've looked at that last little interaction between Setael and Guardian, and it's possible that's distancing, but it just doesn't seem that way to me.

Lastly, I don't think we have a cop in this game. I don't think scum would have given us that, as it would be far too helpful to us. So it's my view we have a roleblocker, and that person should NOT claim, despite Rishi thinking it would be helpful to have a confirmed townie. I don't feel that way, and I think it's very suspicious that he does.

As I said, I think we're in excellent shape and can afford a mislynch, so I'm not really interested in spending time defending myself. I'd like Rishi to explain exactly why he thinks that rolefishing is helpful to town, though, especially with only one scum left.

[Shanba]

Hrm. So I've reread Rishi and Setael's play.

I dislike Rishi's positions towards the scum - specifically, he spends a lot of time criticising Setael early in the day while keeping a useless vote on jdodge. Also, he mildly attacks mneme when mneme attacks him - yet fails to vote for anyone at all that day. He often seems to be attacking lots of players at once - he'll suddenly say he doesn't like something or someone while keeping his vote on lurkers/flakers or even on no one at all.

Setael's play towards Rishi has me hesitating somewhat, though. I don't see a scum who's going down trying to start a bandwagon on her partner. Iunno. What I did gain from her posts is a greater reluctance to vote xyzzy - it seems like all her arguments focus around xyzzy/ssf bandwagon and how people moved to the flea wagon - all assuming that xyzzy is scum. And yet, I don't think she ever votes for him. I'm unsure what to make of this - it could be that she was trying to link people to a scum partner, or it could be that she didn't want xyzzy lynched or many of her arguments would be gone. I'm leaning towards the latter.

[Thesp]

Mod

: Are the mafia forced to nightkill?

No.

[Rishi]

I dislike Rishi's positions towards the scum - specifically, he spends a lot of time criticising Setael early in the day while keeping a useless vote on jdodge. Also, he mildly attacks mneme when mneme attacks him - yet fails to vote for anyone at all that day. He often seems to be attacking lots of players at once - he'll suddenly say he doesn't like something or someone while keeping his vote on lurkers/flakers or even on no one at all.

Happy birthday!

I don't think I ever had a vote on JDodge. I think you mean xyzzy.

Yes, I did attack Setael while leaving my vote on xyzzy. But I also had made a statement that until xyzzy (or his replacement) posted, I would not retract my vote. Someone would have jumped on me for waffling if I had switched my vote so early.

I basically waited until Bookitty started looking pro-town before I removed my vote. The reason that Bookitty jumped back on my radar today was Setael's defense of xyzzy. (I don't generally look for scumbuddies - I find it more useful to think about individual scum.)

[Guardian]

Still here, my opinion hasn't substantially changed, still want to hear from White/replacement.

[Rishi]

No want wants to play?

Thesp

- What is the status of White?

[Bookitty]

I'd like Rishi to explain exactly why he thinks that rolefishing is helpful to town, though, especially with only one scum left.

You might have missed that, Rishi. Why do you think it's helpful to town to know exactly who the powerroles are, at this point?

[Rishi]

I'd like Rishi to explain exactly why he thinks that rolefishing is helpful to town, though, especially with only one scum left.

You might have missed that, Rishi. Why do you think it's helpful to town to know exactly who the powerroles are, at this point?

Oh, I did miss this.

I find it helpful because, as I said, we have three lynches to go. If we can eliminate one candidate, it becomes a little easier to make the correct choice. Asking for a claim at this stage of the game isn't uncommon.

If we have a cop, I feel that a claim is best. The cop can clear him/herself and hopefully at least one other player. If we lose the cop, then we lose that information.

If the remaining role is a roleblocker, I think a claim tomorrow (if we haven't won by then) might be best. The roleblocker, with one Mafia remaining, acts like a cop. (i.e. "I roleblocked Rishi and the kill still went through - he can't be scum.")

I am going to presume that the one No Kill we had in this game was likely a doctor save rather than a roleblocker block.

But narrowing down the list of candidates with so few players is more helpful than you think.

[Shanba]

I dislike Rishi's positions towards the scum - specifically, he spends a lot of time criticising Setael early in the day while keeping a useless vote on jdodge. Also, he mildly attacks mneme when mneme attacks him - yet fails to vote for anyone at all that day. He often seems to be attacking lots of players at once - he'll suddenly say he doesn't like something or someone while keeping his vote on lurkers/flakers or even on no one at all.

Happy birthday!

I don't think I ever had a vote on JDodge. I think you mean xyzzy.

Yes, I did attack Setael while leaving my vote on xyzzy. But I also had made a statement that until xyzzy (or his replacement) posted, I would not retract my vote. Someone would have jumped on me for waffling if I had switched my vote so early.

I basically waited until Bookitty started looking pro-town before I removed my vote. The reason that Bookitty jumped back on my radar today was Setael's defense of xyzzy. (I don't generally look for scumbuddies - I find it more useful to think about individual scum.)

Mm. Eh. Bleh. Considering xyzzy was inactive sitewide (as was pointed out at the time, and could have been easily researched anyway), what did you hope to gain from leaving your vote on him? Even if your explanation holds true, that implies that you were more interested in looking pro-town than placing your vote in a useful place.

Also, if you don't generally look for scumbuddies, how does Setael's defence of xyzzy factor in? That's looking for a scumbuddy :\.

To tell the truth, I'm not convinced Rishi is scum, but a couple of things motivate me to

Vote: Rishi

. First off, I don't see anyone who's particularly scummier. Second, even if this is wrong, we're far enough ahead that we can afford a mislynch to rid ourselves of a scummy townie - leaving him alive if he's town creates a pitfall for later. Thirdly and most importantly, however, is that the game is stalling. Town letting the game die here may well throw he game to the scum, when by all rights we should win it from here.

[Rishi]

Mm. Eh. Bleh. Considering xyzzy was inactive sitewide (as was pointed out at the time, and could have been easily researched anyway), what did you hope to gain from leaving your vote on him? Even if your explanation holds true, that implies that you were more interested in looking pro-town than placing your vote in a useful place.

Also, if you don't generally look for scumbuddies, how does Setael's defence of xyzzy factor in? That's looking for a scumbuddy :\.

To tell the truth, I'm not convinced Rishi is scum, but a couple of things motivate me to

Vote: Rishi

. First off, I don't see anyone who's particularly scummier. Second, even if this is wrong, we're far enough ahead that we can afford a mislynch to rid ourselves of a scummy townie - leaving him alive if he's town creates a pitfall for later. Thirdly and most importantly, however, is that the game is stalling. Town letting the game die here may well throw he game to the scum, when by all rights we should win it from here.

Where did you get the idea that xyzzy was inactive site-wide? I went back and counter. His last post in this thread was on September 11. Bookitty's first post was October 16. During that period, xyzzy made 120 posts elsewhere on the site. I would not call that inactive. All the evidence points towards intentional lurking.

What I mean when I say I don't look for scumbuddies is that I noted that Setael was defending xyzzy on Day 3. I didn't keep my vote on Bookitty because I didn't think "Setael and Bookitty must be scumbuddies. Therefore, a vote on one is as good as a vote on another." I was pretty sure that Setael was scum and on Day 3 I wasn't concerned who her partner was. Now I am.

I really don't understand why everyone considers me scummy. I think mneme and Setael were both pushing for my lynch. Everyone just thinks they were distancing?

But, if you all really think that I am scummy, then it's best that you get rid of me now. I don't want to be left in the game in a lynch-or-lose situation if people are going to pick wrong.

If your argument is that the scum wants this thread to die and stall, then I am also not sure how you can find me scummy. I am one of the more active players in this game, and I continually try to keep the thread going when the game dies.

Don't lynch me out of sheer laziness. I find that insulting. Find a real reason to vote for me.

[Patrick]

I've been neglecting a bit, mainly because I'm revising for a test tomorrow morning. When that's out of the way I want to do that read of Rishi's posts. I don't really see the attraction to lynching right now though. At the very least we should be waiting for the White replacement/return.

[Thesp]

Day 4 Official Vote Count

Bookitty

- 1 (Guardian)

Rishi

- 3 (JDodge, Bookitty, Shanba)

Not Voting

- 3 (Patrick, Rishi, White)

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

Replacing White - I believe I have someone in the wings, should know by tonight.

[Rishi]

Correction - Shanba is also voting for me.

[Thesp]

Correction - Shanba is also voting for me.

I missed that. Fixed, thanks!