Mini 523 - Game Over!

[Nudude]

Mod Edit
From now on, I will put a vote count in the top post of each page.

Vote Count:

charter (2)

- Nudude, liamcool
Disciple Slayer - (2) charter, VampyreLord
Lord Nikon (2) - Gorgon, Shotgun_Kitten
Dark_Lady_Shaiann (2) - Lord Nikon, Hang 'em High
liamcool (1) - deepthought

Not Voting (3) - Infinitive, DiscipleSlayer, Dark_Lady_Shaiann

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Random Vote: Lord Nikon

Cause he's not dark like me.

You claim that your vote is random, yet you give a reason for it? I believe we're now out of the random voting stage and we've caught us a scum.

Unvote, Vote: Dark Lady Shaiann

It's a random reason for a random vote.....

Ok, so your vote was random....fair enough.

Hello, everyone. Sorry for not posting sooner; as you'll see from my signature, weekends are tough for me. Day one is largely a guessing game, but we've got to start somewhere. The one thing that stood out to me while reading the weekend's posts was Dark_Lady_Shaiann putting a 4th vote on Lord Nikon. A 4th vote on page 1 is a little odd. She said it was a random vote, but there was no dice roll to back it up. While it probably

was

random, it's possible she was claiming random while trying to get a bandwagon going. Now I know a 4th vote isn't a big deal since the risk of a quick lynch is minimal, but it was the only thing that caught my eye at all so for now I'm going to:

Vote: Dark_Lady_Shaiann

I would have voted for him earlier, but to be honest I didn't even really know he was there until some one else voted for him >_< I just thought it would be kind of on the funny side......

unvote

So now your voting for him because it would be kind of funny?

Which was it?

FOS: Dark Lady Shaiann

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

Random Vote: Lord Nikon

Cause he's not dark like me.

You claim that your vote is random, yet you give a reason for it? I believe we're now out of the random voting stage and we've caught us a scum.

Unvote, Vote: Dark Lady Shaiann

It's a random reason for a random vote.....

Ok, so your vote was random....fair enough.

Hello, everyone. Sorry for not posting sooner; as you'll see from my signature, weekends are tough for me. Day one is largely a guessing game, but we've got to start somewhere. The one thing that stood out to me while reading the weekend's posts was Dark_Lady_Shaiann putting a 4th vote on Lord Nikon. A 4th vote on page 1 is a little odd. She said it was a random vote, but there was no dice roll to back it up. While it probably

was

random, it's possible she was claiming random while trying to get a bandwagon going. Now I know a 4th vote isn't a big deal since the risk of a quick lynch is minimal, but it was the only thing that caught my eye at all so for now I'm going to:

Vote: Dark_Lady_Shaiann

I would have voted for him earlier, but to be honest I didn't even really know he was there until some one else voted for him >_< I just thought it would be kind of on the funny side......

unvote

So now your voting for him because it would be kind of funny?

Which was it?

FOS: Dark Lady Shaiann

The vote and reason was always meant to be kind of funny. That doesn't make the vote or reason any less random just becuase I put 5 seconds of thought into it......

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

It's not a switch in reasoning, just a continuation.

[Nudude]

Ok fair enough DLS, consider my FOS lifted =)

I'd like to have a look at the Lord Nikon bandwagon a bit more, if there are no objections? If someone else has other ideas, please bring them to light.

It was started Gorgon, which in itself doesn't really mean alot, but what does get my attention is that he's been very quiet. Can you share any observations you've made so far Gorgon?

[Infinitive]

I would have voted for him earlier, but to be honest I didn't even really know he was there until some one else voted for him >_< I just thought it would be kind of on the funny side......

unvote

I find this statement to be both confusing and suspicious. Allow me:

"I would have voted for him earlier," Earlier than you did? You voted pretty early, but I can buy that explanation, except for...

"But... I didn't even really know he was there until come one else voted for him," Wait a sec. You just said right there that you were going to vote for Nikon regardless, and that other people just beat you to it. Then, in the same sentence, you said that no, it's not your fault, you're just bandwagoning. This is what is known as a contradiction in terms; both of your statements cannot possibly be true.

Dark Lady Shaiann, consider yourself FOS'd

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

Alright....let me see if I can explain this clearly. I have a reputation of rambling.....


What I'm trying to say is, if I had noticed that he was even in the game earlier then I did, the reason for my random vote would not have changed. I didn't have a random reason to random vote any one else, and then all of a sudden I noticed him, and not really knowing how many people before me had voted for him (considering that I didn't even know he was there), I just went ahead and random voted for him with that trying-to-be-funny/random reason.

Does that make a little bit more sense or should I try and simplify it once more?

[charter]

I really think you guys are making too big of deal over this. I think it's enough to say the vote was random because she didn't have any information to base it off of. If there's a reason, totally unrelated to the game, I think that's just as random as rolling a dice.

[Gorgon]

D_L_S, there was ample discussion about the fact that the Lord Nikon wagon was building momentum rapidly. You should have noticed this. IGMEOY.

[Hang 'em High]

Vote: No Vote

Everyone else is voting so far, so I'm gonna cool my heels and read what people have to say for now. Besides, I got lynched in my last game for trying to figure things out.

I don't like this thinking. Votes serve many purposes besides a lynch. They can pressure people to contribute. They create a voting history for later analysis. They create discussion. All these things are good for the town. Not voting accomplishes nothing. Don't wait to vote until you are sure someone is scum -- use your vote as a tool to help uncover scum.

Random Vote: Lord Nikon

Cause he's not dark like me.

You claim that your vote is random, yet you give a reason for it? I believe we're now out of the random voting stage and we've caught us a scum.

Unvote, Vote: Dark Lady Shaiann

"Caught us a scum"? Let's not overstate things here. As I stated earlier, I found DLS's vote a little suspicious, but the case against her is nowhere near strong enough to warrant that. This early the only people who can be certain who is scum are the scum themselves.

If conversation doesn't pick up guys, we might have to start having a look at some of the lurkers. Mods are quite happy to throw deadlines on threads that aren't moving, so we've got to get some more people talking.

While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I think this game is moving along pretty well considering we're early in day 1. The first day is really tough and people have to build cases with only flimsy evidence. Obviously we've got to keep pushing, but I don't think we're in any danger of getting deadlined yet.

I don't like when people guide the conversation but don't take action themselves. It makes me think they're trying to get a bandwagon going without attaching themselves to it. If you think we should go after lurkers, you do it. Don't ask others to do your work for you.

come

on

fellas. These are all at least

semi

-random votes. We can't really base any suspicouns (argh) on anything at this point. You guys seem real jumpy.

QFT. But that's just kinda the way things go on day 1. Gotta start somewhere.

Everyone wants people to vote, it's just that scum want people to vote for townies. How does not voting give scum an advantage?

Votes generate discussion. Votes pressure people and possibly lead to mistakes. Votes leave a trail for later analysis. All these things create information that can help the town.

Hey, I got L-1'd on the first page of my first game. Sometimes people just have a brain fart when they're setting the random votes. I'm still not convinced of anything.

The corollary is that I got lynched on the top of page 4, so maybe that just means that my first game was screwy.

Yeah, I put someone at L-1 because I wasn't thinking and I was the prime suspect for scum for the rest of the game. (when I was in fact the cop)

Bah, charter and Infinitive are both sticking up for DLS. Could be a link between any of them. Could be Scum, Masons or Cult. Ain't much but at least something. IGMEOY.

Where am I "sticking up for" let alone even talking about/with Dark lady shaiann? I don't see where Infinitive does this either. Care to explain your statement?

I agree with charter here. I don't see where charter or Infinitive stood up for DLS. VampyreLord, I'd like to hear your explanation as well -- it seems you are distorting facts to cast aspersions on someone.

FoS: VampyreLord

Here's the link to the article:
http://www.mafiascum.net/cgi-bin/wiki.p ... ood_Townie

For the most part I disagree with this article, particularly on day 1. Right now no townie has more information than any other (unless we've got masons on our side). IMO, laying low as a townie encourages the scum to do the same, which is not good for the town.

D_L_S, there was ample discussion about the fact that the Lord Nikon wagon was building momentum rapidly. You should have noticed this. IGMEOY.

At the very least I found DLS's vote to be careless and it could have been an attempt to get a wagon started on a townie. It's hardly a convincing case, but I think it's the best we've got at the moment.

[deepthought]

The one thing that stood out to me while reading the weekend's posts was Dark_Lady_Shaiann putting a 4th vote on Lord Nikon.

I agree largely with this post but I don't think Shotgun_Kitten should get a free pass after putting up the third vote and then vanishing only to surface with one "sorry for being lurky" excuse. She seems to have been largely forgotten.

[Hang 'em High]

The one thing that stood out to me while reading the weekend's posts was Dark_Lady_Shaiann putting a 4th vote on Lord Nikon.

I agree largely with this post but I don't think Shotgun_Kitten should get a free pass after putting up the third vote and then vanishing only to surface with one "sorry for being lurky" excuse. She seems to have been largely forgotten.

You're absolutely right. I haven't forgotten her -- in fact when I saw she had placed a third vote on Lord Nikon

without any explanation

I was ready to vote for her. The only reason I didn't was because I found DLS's vote even more curious. But you're right -- we shouldn't give Kitten a free pass. Her unexplained vote warrants a

FoS: Shotgun_Kitten

.

[Gorgon]

Funny, I hadn't seen that "How to be a good Townie" article before. I'm not sure what the main point of it is. It seems to be mostly; 'Think before you post, and especially think before you vote', as well as 'Don't get in the way', with a dash of 'Don't accuse people left and right'. I can agree with the first point, since it's pretty much common sense, but the second and third ... ehhh. Sure, accusing people can draw attention to you, but it's also a good tactic for rattling scum, if you happen to be right. The way people respond to accusations is often telling. Also, I've found that when I've played as scum, I've usually gone down the path of not trying to rock the boat too much or draw too much attention to myself, which is exactly what this article says is part of being a good townie. My experience of this game isn't that great yet, but I think I can say with some certainty that scum are actually more likely than townies to behave in this way; creep around the edges and post 'safe' stuff that doesn't draw too much attention. Also, it's not necessarily about the amount posted, but the content of the posts. I've posted prolifically every time I've played as scum, for instance.

But heck, I'm rambling. Let's get down to business.

I see now that this was directed at me:

It was started Gorgon, which in itself doesn't really mean alot, but what does get my attention is that he's been very quiet. Can you share any observations you've made so far Gorgon?

I assume you mean I started the LN bandwagon. My quietness is readily explained both by the weekend I mentioned earlier, and by a conscious choice on my part to cut down a little on the amount of posting I do. I've found that I post a lot without always having that much to say - and that's not very helpful to anyone.

---

deepthought makes a good point about SK having put down the third vote on LN. It's just as worhwhile to note as DLS's vote.

HeH also has a good point against VampyreLord. I eagerly await his explanation of why he said charter and Infinitive were 'sticking up for' DLS just because they mentioned earlier games they were in where there was a fast early bandwagon that was not scum-motivated. Looks to me like just using past experience to warn against not drawing conclusions too hastily.

I think I'll motivate VL with a vote.

Unvote

Vote: VampyreLord

[charter]

HeH also has a good point against VampyreLord. I eagerly await his explanation of why he said charter and Infinitive were 'sticking up for' DLS just because they mentioned earlier games they were in where there was a fast early bandwagon that was not scum-motivated. Looks to me like just using past experience to warn against not drawing conclusions too hastily.

I think I'll motivate VL with a vote.

Unvote

Vote: VampyreLord

That's a good way of putting it. I'm trying to learn from my past mistakes. I'm not quite sure I want to vote for vampyrelord, but if his explanation isn't good I might be inclined to.

[Nudude]

If conversation doesn't pick up guys, we might have to start having a look at some of the lurkers. Mods are quite happy to throw deadlines on threads that aren't moving, so we've got to get some more people talking.

While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I think this game is moving along pretty well considering we're early in day 1. The first day is really tough and people have to build cases with only flimsy evidence. Obviously we've got to keep pushing, but I don't think we're in any danger of getting deadlined yet.

I don't like when people guide the conversation but don't take action themselves. It makes me think they're trying to get a bandwagon going without attaching themselves to it. If you think we should go after lurkers, you do it. Don't ask others to do your work for you.

You make a fair point. I wasn't telling anyone to do anything, just making the suggestion we have a look at lurkers. If people don't want to that's fine, I'm just throwing out an idea, and I would encourage everyone to throw out any ideas they have.

We haven't heard anything from Lord Nikon in awhile. You came out virtually guns blazing with two votes and accusations on the first page, but we haven't heard from you since, any reason for the sudden change of tactics?

[VampyreLord]

Hey, I got L-1'd on the first page of my first game. Sometimes people just have a brain fart when they're setting the random votes. I'm still not convinced of anything.

The corollary is that I got lynched on the top of page 4, so maybe that just means that my first game was screwy.

Yeah, I put someone at L-1 because I wasn't thinking and I was the prime suspect for scum for the rest of the game. (when I was in fact the cop)

I agree with you Nudude, that we need people to post regardless of if they have something to post about, else we won't ever find scum.

Here, Infinitive is, IMO, defending DLS after Hang 'em High's vote on her. Afterwards, charter agrees with Infinitive, thus two people are possibly trying to get suspisoun (grr) off DLS.....

[Infinitive]

Vamp, did you miss this post?

I would have voted for him earlier, but to be honest I didn't even really know he was there until some one else voted for him >_< I just thought it would be kind of on the funny side......

unvote

I find this statement to be both confusing and suspicious. Allow me:

"I would have voted for him earlier," Earlier than you did? You voted pretty early, but I can buy that explanation, except for...

"But... I didn't even really know he was there until come one else voted for him," Wait a sec. You just said right there that you were going to vote for Nikon regardless, and that other people just beat you to it. Then, in the same sentence, you said that no, it's not your fault, you're just bandwagoning. This is what is known as a contradiction in terms; both of your statements cannot possibly be true.

Dark Lady Shaiann, consider yourself FOS'd

[Hang 'em High]

Hey, I got L-1'd on the first page of my first game. Sometimes people just have a brain fart when they're setting the random votes. I'm still not convinced of anything.

The corollary is that I got lynched on the top of page 4, so maybe that just means that my first game was screwy.

Yeah, I put someone at L-1 because I wasn't thinking and I was the prime suspect for scum for the rest of the game. (when I was in fact the cop)

I agree with you Nudude, that we need people to post regardless of if they have something to post about, else we won't ever find scum.

Here, Infinitive is, IMO, defending DLS after Hang 'em High's vote on her. Afterwards, charter agrees with Infinitive, thus two people are possibly trying to get suspisoun (grr) off DLS.....

I really don't think either can really be viewed as defending DLS, but that's just a matter of opinion. Regardless, I'm not inclined to read much into VampyreLord's post -- he merely pointed out a possible connection and didn't go overboard in his conclusions. At this point everything we have to go on is fairly insignificant, so I can hardly blame Vamp for doing so. It's not as if he is advocating a lynch based on this post.

[deepthought]

Well, let's do this.

unvote liamcool, vote Shotgun_Kitten

[Nudude]

Well SK has been very quiet as of late....

Shotgun Kitten, can you give us some sort of explaination, or any observations you've made?

I'm still wait for an explaination from Lord Nikon.

If I don't hear from you, I am going to vote for one of you.

[Infinitive]

I have to agree with Nudude's sentiment. It's gotten very quiet in here of late, and I'd like to hear from several of the lurkers. Not necessarily a defense ro anything, just your thoughts on what's going on.

[charter]

Well, let's do this.

unvote liamcool, vote Shotgun_Kitten

Perhaps I can help prod SK into contributing.

unvote disciple slayer
vote shotgun kitten

[Hang 'em High]

Alright....let me see if I can explain this clearly. I have a reputation of rambling.....


What I'm trying to say is, if I had noticed that he was even in the game earlier then I did, the reason for my random vote would not have changed. I didn't have a random reason to random vote any one else, and then all of a sudden I noticed him, and not really knowing how many people before me had voted for him (considering that I didn't even know he was there), I just went ahead and random voted for him with that trying-to-be-funny/random reason.

Does that make a little bit more sense or should I try and simplify it once more?

I'm not really buying that DLS didn't even notice Lord Nikon was in the game. This is a mini game and there are only 11 other players, so claiming not to have noticed another player is either very careless or disingenuous. Even though I voted for her based on it, I realize her initial vote against Lord Nikon is a flimsy case. However, I'm finding her explanation unsatisfactory. I do give her credit for responding and not getting overly defensive.

On the other hand, Shotgun_Kitten also had a suspicious vote against Lord Nikon and isn't responding at all. I'll show you her entire contribution to the game so far:

Vote:Lord Nikon

FOS ShotgunKitten for voting Lord Nikon for no reason and for not talking much.

Sorry. Started a new job. Work 40 some odd hours a week. By the time I get home Dad's on the computer...so I can post once or twice in the mornings, and that's about it. So sorry for the slowness guys.

I can understand the LA problems -- that's not really my issue. My concern is the vote on Lord Nikon and the fact she didn't address it at all after being questioned on it. Disciple Slayer raised two points in his post: SK's vote and her lack of activity. She addressed the latter while ignoring the former. I'm still just as suspicious of Dark_Lady_Shaiann as I was previously (if not more), but at least she's participating. Time to get Shotgun_Kitten to do the same.

Unvote: Dark_Lady_Shaiann
Vote: Shotgun_Kitten

[Infinitive]

Be careful a bandwagon doesn't form here, people. If nothing else, it's foolish to become suspicious of someone because they haven't posted recently, and then to lynch them before they say anything about the increasing number of votes against them.

I want to hear from Shotgun Kitten, if at all possible, before we get any closer to a lynch. Right now, I'm still more suspicious of DLS, but SK does need to explain him/herself. OTOH, lunching a possible townie because of impatience is very dangerous.

[charter]

Be careful a bandwagon doesn't form here, people. If nothing else, it's foolish to become suspicious of someone because they haven't posted recently, and then to lynch them before they say anything about the increasing number of votes against them.

I want to hear from Shotgun Kitten, if at all possible, before we get any closer to a lynch. Right now, I'm still more suspicious of DLS, but SK does need to explain him/herself. OTOH, lunching a possible townie because of impatience is very dangerous.

I'm merely voting for SK to try and get him/her to talk. When they post something (assuming it doesn't give me a reason to keep my vote on them) I'll most likely take it off.

I agree, a bandwagon when we have nothing to go on is a terrible idea.

[Hang 'em High]

Be careful a bandwagon doesn't form here, people. If nothing else, it's foolish to become suspicious of someone because they haven't posted recently, and then to lynch them before they say anything about the increasing number of votes against them.

I want to hear from Shotgun Kitten, if at all possible, before we get any closer to a lynch. Right now, I'm still more suspicious of DLS, but SK does need to explain him/herself. OTOH, lunching a possible townie because of impatience is very dangerous.

Of course you're absolutely right, but I don't think anyone is advocating a Shotgun_Kitten lynch at this point. She's only got three votes so there's really no reason to fear a quick lynch. She made a mildly suspicious vote and then was somewhat evasive in her second post. My vote is merely to apply some pressure and generate a response. How she responds will determine if I ramp up the pressure or turn back to DLS (or some other candidate). If she fails to respond I certainly wouldn't advocate lynching her -- instead I'd ask for a replacement.