California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[Talitha]

Gaspar, why do I get the feeling you would be voting for me regardless of whether I found the time to adequately explain myself. My current theory is that you are scum, and you know that IH is not scum, and you saw my waivering suspicions of IH as an opportunity to go after someone you know to be wrong and trip them up on their own reasoning.

So there ya have it. I just haven't been able to give this game the time I wanted to, but from the attention that I have been able to give, IH is looking better, you Gaspar are looking worse.

I am going to give Pooks the benefit of the doubt today, because he looks like he got my back.

The FOS on Zindaras I don't agree with and see it as the actions of a scum. It's quite gutsy to place a no lynch vote 24 hours before deadline, and draws attention to oneself. Zindaras's unsureness and placeholder vote looks like a town-ish action, even if it's not particularly helpful.

[Mr. Grey]

Deadline:

Approximately 13 hours from this post.

Vote Count:

7 to lynch.

logicticus: 3 (IH, Sarcastro, Talitha)
Talitha: 2 (Gaspar, Tamuz)
MrBuddyLee: 1 (Dragon Phoenix)
Setael/Cogito Ergo Sum: 1 (logicticus)
Gaspar: 1 (PookyTheMagicalBear)
PookyTheMagicalBear: 1 (foolinc)
Sarcastro: 1 (MrBuddyLee)
No Lynch: 1 (Zindaras)

Current Condorcet Winner:

None. Current Smith Set: Setael/Cogito Ergo Sum, Dragon Phoenix, Gaspar, IH, logicticus, MrBuddyLee, PookyTheMagicalBear, Sarcastro, Talitha, Tamuz, Zindaras

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[Mr. Grey]

MrBuddyLee has not posted in over 72 hours (not counting Sunday), and will be replaced as soon as a replacement is found.

[Talitha]

vote:

Gaspar,

logisticus

, Sarcastro, MrBuddyLee, Tamuz

[Zindaras]

It doesn't matter if I vote No Lynch, comprendo? Except I can't really cast a vote for any of the four, and I don't believe I can vote for all of them, so the No Lynch is an easy way out to still keep a Condorcet list. No Lynch essentially denotes a blank vote.

[Gaspar]

Gaspar, why do I get the feeling you would be voting for me regardless of whether I found the time to adequately explain myself. My current theory is that you are scum, and you know that IH is not scum, and you saw my waivering suspicions of IH as an opportunity to go after someone you know to be wrong and trip them up on their own reasoning.

I don't know. I made it pretty clear about a week ago that I wanted you to make good on your promise to look over IH and explain your thoughts on him. The fact that you hadn't is something that really bothers me, and it's something I've seen as indicative of scum in the past. The fact that you didn't make an effort to say anything at all really is what pushed me over the line. There was no "I took a really quick skim of IH's posts and this is the general feeling I get." If you'd said even that much, I'd probably not have jumped to you.

The FOS on Zindaras I don't agree with and see it as the actions of a scum. It's quite gutsy to place a no lynch vote 24 hours before deadline, and draws attention to oneself. Zindaras's unsureness and placeholder vote looks like a town-ish action, even if it's not particularly helpful.

I find it very unusual for Zindaras to fail to take a stand during D4. And yes, it

DOES

matter if he votes No Lynch because we have no Condorcet winner (meaning the day would result in a No-Lynch). His top four suspects are the three Condorcet winners and IH, which I find very sheepish. He's not willing to stick his neck out and just go for one of them. While I will concede that caution can be a protown sign, but that is completely unlike what I'm used to seeing from protown

Zindaras

.



I'd really like to see Zindaras choose between his top four and actually contribute to acheiving a lynch today. I *should* be around to move back to MBL to ensure a lynch, but I honestly can't make any promises -- I'm in training all day and shouldn't be on MS in the first place.

[Gaspar]

It's so...silly not to vote.

No Lynch essentially denotes a blank vote.

Could you explain the difference between not voting and making a blank vote? How exactly are you hunting for scums? How do you expect to provide any accountability or responsibility for your contributions to the game? Why did you say that Voting No Lynch didn't matter, when Grey

just made a vote count indicating that the result of the current Condorcet would have no single winner

?


Update because I don't think I'll get on before deadline, but Zindaras has

SKYROCKETED

up my list.

Unvote
Vote: MrBuddyLee

Talitha, Zindaras, [DP, Saetel], [Pooky, Tamuz] [IH, logicticus], [Foolinc, Sarcastro], No Lynch, Gaspar

[logicticus]

i dont think its that scummy for zindy to no lynch because then we go to the list.

but it is scummy to not take a stand like gaspar said, so i will do as much

unvote
vote ces/setael

, sarc, mbl, tally, [the rest], no lynch, logicticus

[Gaspar]

No, Logic -- if there is no winner from the condorcet method, then my understanding is that we no-lynch:

If a single option beats every other option in these pairings, that option is the Condorcet winner, and is lynched. If there is no Condorcet winner (or if "no lynch" is the Condorcet winner), no one is lynched.

Zindaras' failure to choose a player to vote had, until my shift back to MBL, resulted in

no Condorcet winner

, meaning that we *WOULD* have no-lynched.

[logicticus]

No, Logic -- if there is no winner from the condorcet method, then my understanding is that we no-lynch:

If a single option beats every other option in these pairings, that option is the Condorcet winner, and is lynched. If there is no Condorcet winner (or if "no lynch" is the Condorcet winner), no one is lynched.

Zindaras' failure to choose a player to vote had, until my shift back to MBL, resulted in

no Condorcet winner

, meaning that we *WOULD* have no-lynched.

Oh I didnt realize that...now this makes zindys action look terrible.

[Zindaras]

You're funny, Gaspar.

You're not accusing me of voting No Lynch, you're accusing me of listing MBL and logictitus in the same brackets. What's your point? Deadline hasn't hit, I've got time enough to change my list.

[Sarcastro]

Hi, Zindy.

Please help me make Logicticus dead for being dirty, dirty scum.

Your friend,
Sarc.

Also, I'm writing something here for reasons that clearly have nothing to do with passing 25 words.

[logicticus]

Hi, Zindy.

Please help me make Logicticus dead for being dirty, dirty scum.

Your friend,
Sarc.

Also, I'm writing something here for reasons that clearly have nothing to do with passing 25 words.

so have you reviewed me yet or are you just being lazy still a week later?

ill guess with needing the 25 word post you are still being lazy.

[Mr. Grey]

Deadline:

Approximately 3 hours from this post.

Vote Count:

7 to lynch.

logicticus: 3 (IH, Sarcastro, Talitha)
MrBuddyLee: 2 (Dragon Phoenix, Gaspar)
Setael/Cogito Ergo Sum: 1 (logicticus)
Gaspar: 1 (PookyTheMagicalBear)
PookyTheMagicalBear: 1 (foolinc)
Sarcastro: 1 (MrBuddyLee)
Talitha: 1 (Tamuz)
No Lynch: 1 (Zindaras)

Current Condorcet Winner:

None. Current Smith Set: Setael/Cogito Ergo Sum, Dragon Phoenix, Gaspar, IH, logicticus, MrBuddyLee, PookyTheMagicalBear, Sarcastro, Talitha, Tamuz, Zindaras

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[Zindaras]

I still don't get the whole Smith set stuff.

Sarcy, why do you think Logic has to die?

[Tamuz]

The loggy hate is stupid.

vote: IH

[Seteal, Sarcastro, Foolinc, Talitha].[Gaspar, , MBL ], [DP, Logiticus,Pooky, ], No Lynch, Zindaras, Tamuz

[Gaspar]

You're funny, Gaspar.

You're not accusing me of voting No Lynch, you're accusing me of listing MBL and logictitus in the same brackets. What's your point? Deadline hasn't hit, I've got time enough to change my list.

I'm accusing you of fence-sitting, having all of the general game's top suspects at the top of your own list but refusing to distinguish between any of them. Your current position is completely unreasonable for any protown player.


Basically, Zindie, at this point: Nobody will be lynched becasue there is no consensus favorite between MBL and Logic (as you have aptly noted). If you choose to vote one of them over the other, we'll secure a lynch. Otherwise, we won't.



Do you really think that nolynching is a good idea at this point?

[Setael]

I'm on p. 41 and still not liking any of the leading wagons, though my opinions have changed somewhat. The 10 pages I have read today:

I haven't actually seen Thesp coming to Skruffs rescue

IH defending Thesp. Subtly, but still defending.

718 thesp makes Gaspar look town with “Your defense of CES is noted.”

739 dani asks mgm for secret word

746 IH still pushing at logic for figuring out MGM’s breadcrumb so quickly. This argument makes IH look scummy and logic look town since IH’s logic makes no sense to me. It seems a lot more likely that scum would avoid being the one to figure out MGM’s hidden code, since it draws attention to them and can bring up the very argument IH is making against logic.

747 either Tamuz and IH aren’t mafia together or Tamuz just pulled off some really impressive distancing

749 skruffs seems not to know about secret words

748 thesp’s defense of logic makes it unlikely logic is scum – could be distancing from IH

752 foolinc says he used the secret word in a post day 1

Zindy said he has a secret word

LML says he also has a secret word

Dani Banani, replacing Mastermind of Sin D1: post 666 (!) is as scummy as they come. Building trust with two players and suggesting a play for the day without any motivation. Post 739 does not sit well with me either. Why on earth bring up the secret word thing as townie - when for all you know [if you are a townie] that scum do not have secret words? Likely scum.

This logic makes no sense. I can see no reason why scum would be motivated to talk about secret words. Townies, on the other hand, would have no fear of doing so. DP came off looking very scummy for accusing Dani of being scum for bringing up secret words.

Logic’s 772 is very Town

776 It's looking like I was wrong in my read of the first 30 pages. Foolinc looks very Town in this post. Pooky and Talitha vote him soon after, so my impression seems to not be widely shared.

781 Thesp votes IH without giving a reason – possible distancing. Says he enjoys the Adele hate – unlikely distancing statement, more likely adele is Town.

790 Gaspar points out that foolinc’s conclusion should’ve been that skruffs was town not scum. Though this may be the case, I don’t think it’s a scumtell for foolinc. Mafia know skruff’s alignment and would be careful not to make this “error” gaspar is pointing out.

808 – 811 : IH and foolinc unlikely to be scum together

824 DP opportunistically jumps on the foolinc wagon – gives a scummy sounding explanation for the vote

831 tamuz opportunistically pushes foolinc wagon while hiding behind a skruffs vote

857 dani (sarcasto) unlikely to be scum after thesp says to dani:

That's the thing - I think you're lying about your reasoning for bringing up the secret word. I agree I think you have a secret word. Was I unclear on that point? Asking in the way you did makes a heck of a lot of sense if you're scum with a secret word, and afraid that other people might not have one - testing the waters to see what comes up.

Thesp also says in this post “IH needs to die” without giving reasons, presenting a case on IH or really trying to convince anyone. Still looks like distancing.

874 DP basically lurking – pops in and says ‘no incentive to change my vote’ – scummy

IH, I say this only because I think you're town and that you're playing really carelessly right now. STOP GIVING INFORMATION TO THE SCUMS. Your post 868 gave out information on two different accounts (that none of the non-counterclaimers are probably the real Count/Dantes), and that your role is a person from Fresno and not a character from the book.
For somebody who was so disgruntled with Skruffs spewing information at the start of the day, you seem to have just soft-claimed yourself. Tack on your theorizing about BM's death last night, and you've given more information about who you are/aren't. For the love of Pete, think before you post.

This pots makes gaspar look town but I think his conclusion about IH is wrong. I find it hard to believe that IH would be “stupid town” and give info to scum. More likely he is scum who felt the need to subtly tell his scum buddies that they should NOT claim to be the count.

880 DP does not look like he's bussing; foolinc once again coming off town

DP 889 and IH in 892 and 894 re: “password” vs. “secret word”. Both DP and IH’s posts come off looking scummy. IH has never actually said he has a secret word, but has tried to subtly imply it. Same with DP.

Now that IH has claimed to not be from the book AND fossed any claims to the main character, that the game is titled after, i am pretty sure he's'a good lynch.

I have a theory about the game's setup, but. Not sure if talking about it is kosher. IH is not only fishing, he's'propagandizing.

QFT. I think Skruffs was right about IH.

IH just baited town by saying "I'm pretty sure anyone from the book is scum" - Absolutely FIshing!!! Why would he say that?? Because he seems to know he's from OUTSide the book. Has anyone ELSE claimed to be from outside the book? CUbs? LML? BM did, but he also claimed to be from Paris in 1807.

Question about IH's theory that "People from the book are scum"...
Everyone who has claimed, has claimed roles from inside the book or about the book. Presumable, IH has no connection to the book. He is therefore NOT Dantesian in nature. THIS DESERVES TO BE CONSIDERED.

Also QFT

907 there’s a chance Pooky is trying to distract from skruff’s IH case – says thinks IH is scummy in 910 but other than that just seems to be distracting from it by posting about anything but that right after skruffs post.

919 gaspar excuses IH by saying he doesn’t “have his head on straight”.

924 IH capitalizes on gaspar’s trust on him by saying “Even though I did indeed push the soft claim as being scummy, I think that Gaspar and the above is the most logical.... It would have to be a horrible gambit for Skruffs scum to push through.”

IH is basically backpedaling on skruffs, but hiding it behind gaspar’s summation of the whole argument wherein he said IH is just confused Town. IH's post here sounds like scum whose argument is not gaining popularity, and after what gaspar said about it I think scum would do just this.

IH’s comments on foolinc in this post way too over the top for buddying up. Looks like IH is mafia, and foolinc isn’t.

Tamuz 933 once again feels like distracting from skruff’s post on IH

Not sure what to make of Pooky’s angry blow up at skruffs but then IH defends pooky and says “I don't think Pooky is too high a priority on my list atm, as I mostly think he's town.” If I'm right about IH, this is likely distancing from Pooky.

if ih is scum he's artful and attentive--seems town to me.

the first part qft. The second part is wrong imo. Don't think mrbuddylee would be scum with IH.

Something about the way IH (see post 924) is reacting to every single post and bumping people up and down his list as he reads singular posts seems very mechanical to me... I can understand players who play by their gut, and I can understand players who insist on trying to apply logic, but I tend to believe that IH is trying to give the appearance of hunting scum, while not actually hunting scum.

Ah but he's already second on my list, so that's good.

QFT – talitha is probably not scum if IH is

You're joking, correct? Me trying to make sure everything is covered is scummy?

Yes, actually.

976 foolinc claims doc. I definitely believe the claim. foolinc has been looking very town in his last few posts.

Thesp’s 978 is odd re: IH. Says that several people saying they’re getting pro-town reads from IH when he’s getting the opposite, when actually several people had recently voiced suspicion of IH.

Mr Buddy Lee’s posts since replacing in have all seemed very Town. (this is up to p. 41)

So I had hoped to finish the thread before deadline but it looks like that's not going to happen. Based on my read through p. 41 I'm going to:

vote: IH

, DP, Tamuz, Pooky

[Zindaras]

I'm accusing you of fence-sitting, having all of the general game's top suspects at the top of your own list but refusing to distinguish between any of them. Your current position is completely unreasonable for any protown player.

Is there anything wrong with the way I've determined my list? I think it's fairly obvious why most people are at the positions they are.

Basically, Zindie, at this point: Nobody will be lynched becasue there is no consensus favorite between MBL and Logic (as you have aptly noted). If you choose to vote one of them over the other, we'll secure a lynch. Otherwise, we won't.

And it's still 2 hours until deadline. I will break the tie if there is one.

Do you really think that nolynching is a good idea at this point?

No, of course not.

Setael, I'd like you to make a list containing all players.

[Gaspar]

And it's still 2 hours until deadline. I will break the tie if there is one.

Yeah, for some reason I thought it was in less than half an hour. Time math for the loss.

Setael, I'd like you to make a list containing all players.

*scoff*
I find it amusing that you're demanding a bottom half to his list when you can't figure out the top half to your own.
What about Logic only posting a top 4, then "everyone else" and then No Lynch and then himself? Saetel's list is, functionally, the exact same... yet you didn't ask Logic to outline anything.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Close to the deadline. I am moving up Seteal/CES for post 1517, which is full of crap whereever she is referring to my actions - I'll gladly pick that apart tomorrow if we are both still around. I am not switching to Logisticus, because I think he is not scummy.

Vote MrBuddyLee

, [Sarcastro, Seteal/Cogito Ergo Sum], Pooky, [Logisticus, Gaspar, Tamuz, Zindaras], [IH, Talitha], Foolinc, DP, no lynch

[Zindaras]

I find it amusing that you're demanding a bottom half to his list when you can't figure out the top half to your own.

I've actively said that I didn't know who I wanted to put above who, which is different from simply not mentioning them.

What about Logic only posting a top 4, then "everyone else" and then No Lynch and then himself? Saetel's list is, functionally, the exact same... yet you didn't ask Logic to outline anything.

Also bad, but I missed it when I was writing that post. I do think that Logic should explain that one. Also, here's a funny one for ya, Glorkybuns. You're ever-whining about how I'm not picking between logic and MBL, yet neither does Setael (which was also the specific trigger for me asking her).

So why are you not getting all angry at her?

[Gaspar]

Zindaras, don't play stupid.

Admitting to fence-sitting is not an excuse or a reasonable explanation for the fence-sitting itself.

I'm not asking Saetel because she has made it quite obvious that she believes both are protown. If you bothered to read her posts, you'd know that, too.

[logicticus]

alright heres my complete list

vote Seteal/Cogito Ergo Sum

, Sarcastro, MrBuddyLee, Talitha, [IH, Zindaras], [Gaspar, Tamuz, DP], [Foolinc, Pooky], no lynch, logicticus

[Setael]

I didn't realize I was supposed to list everyone. I don't yet understand the condorcet deal fully.

vote: IH

, DP, Tamuz, Pooky, [everyone else], no lynch, setael