'The Lost Boys' Mafia (Cry Little Sister, it's OVER!)

[Mariyta]

It was a suggestion if we thought we needed to prove his claim. Jeez. People get pissy for no good reason all the time.

[Battle Mage]

It was a suggestion if we thought we needed to prove his claim. Jeez. People get pissy for no good reason all the time.

actually i think you might have a point about Watching me. In fact, assuming we no-lynch today, i'd reccommend it even.
I'm not sure that tracking a Mason will achieve anything-best check with the mod first to see whether a mason can be tracked to their partner at night. My suspicion would be the answer to that is no.

BM

[dybeck]

Yos... you don't see any merit in the idea that if bad guys in the movie are good guys here, that the bad guys in the movie might be bad guys here?

We've heard a lot of claims, yet only in desperation has anyone fessed up to being any of the Sam, Lucy, Grandpa, Frog Brothers group...

[Battle Mage]

^the above makes very little grammatical or logical sense.

[Yosarian2]

Yos... you don't see any merit in the idea that if bad guys in the movie are good guys here, that the bad guys in the movie might be bad guys here?

No, not really. Note that the people who claimed didn't actually claim to be bad guys; they claimed to be humans who were vampires in the movie but NOT IN THE GAME; IE, people who had not (yet?) been turned into vampires, so I don't think that makes them "bad guys". Note we haven't had anyone claim to actually BE a vampire; I would guess there really are vampires in the game (the flavor of the whole game wouldn't make any sense otherwise), and that they are anti-town (mafia, cult, or whatever). Assuming that is true, the frog brothers would be pro-town.

We've heard a lot of claims, yet only in desperation has anyone fessed up to being any of the Sam, Lucy, Grandpa, Frog Brothers group...

Well, almost the only reason to claim anything is in desperation, heh; why would anyone claim if they weren't in trouble?

Now, don't get me wrong; it wouldn't surprise me if the Frog Brothers are safe claims or something like that, TinVision could be scum. But if the Frog Brothers are in the game, my hunch would be that they're good guy.

[Mr. Flay]

Mod:

I voted for dybeck when I unvoted -TinVision-. Also, what timezone are you in? ie, when is the end of the 29th

Fixed in the old vote count, thank you. It did not change who reached 5 first..

Also, when I say "end of the day", I mean server time, which is Eastern United States time. I will count it down in hours once you get closer... (for that matter, you are at about t-36 hours now). I will post a vote count in about eight hours, when I get home from Samhain.

[Ectomancer]

Yosarian, I don't think we ask for TinVision's partner to claim to prove him anymore than we need to have BM's partner claim. To me, they are in the same boat, and saying that "Flay wouldnt do that" when talking about game mechanics, and then acting like that confirms a guilty is ridiculous action on speculation. (I realize Dybeck and BM believe that mechanic is some "proof" of guilt, not you Yosarian)

Neither popular wagon is one I can support for reasons. Looking at everyone and their contributions and my reasoning for

not

lynching someone before, I think that it is finally time to

vote SirLaggalot

That's our best lynch for today. His only defense before for his statements were that he is a n00b. Page 64 that defense cant hold up anymore, and he has become a lurker.

[cicero]

I believe Tinvision's name claim but am very suspicious of his role claim and mechanics.
Ecto I dont mind you arguing for a laggalot lynch but are you going to unvote tomorrow if no one follows you and your new one vote wagon stands between us and a no lynch?

[VitaminR]

Yosarian, I don't think we ask for TinVision's partner to claim to prove him anymore than we need to have BM's partner claim. To me, they are in the same boat, and saying that "Flay wouldnt do that" when talking about game mechanics, and then acting like that confirms a guilty is ridiculous action on speculation. (I realize Dybeck and BM believe that mechanic is some "proof" of guilt, not you Yosarian)

I agree with this completely. TinVision's claim makes me think I was wrong in pursuing him.

Unvote: -TinVision,
Vote: SirLaggalot

The newb defense is the only reason I haven't pushed for his lynch and it's starting to wear thin.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, that's fine by me.

unvote:dybeck

vote:sirLaggalot

Seems like a good time to lynch a lurker to me.

Am willing to go back to dybeck wagon if needed to secure a lynch.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian, I don't think we ask for TinVision's partner to claim to prove him anymore than we need to have BM's partner claim. To me, they are in the same boat, and saying that "Flay wouldnt do that" when talking about game mechanics, and then acting like that confirms a guilty is ridiculous action on speculation. (I realize Dybeck and BM believe that mechanic is some "proof" of guilt, not you Yosarian)

Well, I wouldn't say it's "ridiculous"; in my experence, when someone claims an overly complicated role with lots of wierd things going on, there's a higher chance they're lying (in this case, several different abilites, different unknown probabilites of each ability to work, claimed mason partner, and claimed seperate "pre-dawn" discussion period that apparently dosn't apply to the other claimed mason group.) It seems more like a role a scum would make up in his own defense rather then a role the mod would actually put into the game.

I just wish we had a bit more time to discuss this now. The more I think about it , the more I think we need to have TinVision's mason partner come out to confirm his claim, either now or tommorow. There's just too much wierdness here.

[Sudo_Nym]

Say it's the pot calling the kettle black, but I'm willing to go along with Tinvision's idea.

vote: Sir. Laggsalot

[Ectomancer]

Yosarian, I don't think we ask for TinVision's partner to claim to prove him anymore than we need to have BM's partner claim. To me, they are in the same boat, and saying that "Flay wouldnt do that" when talking about game mechanics, and then acting like that confirms a guilty is ridiculous action on speculation. (I realize Dybeck and BM believe that mechanic is some "proof" of guilt, not you Yosarian)

Well, I wouldn't say it's "ridiculous"; in my experence, when someone claims an overly complicated role with lots of wierd things going on, there's a higher chance they're lying (in this case, several different abilites, different unknown probabilites of each ability to work, claimed mason partner, and claimed seperate "pre-dawn" discussion period that apparently dosn't apply to the other claimed mason group.) It seems more like a role a scum would make up in his own defense rather then a role the mod would actually put into the game.

I just wish we had a bit more time to discuss this now. The more I think about it , the more I think we need to have TinVision's mason partner come out to confirm his claim, either now or tommorow. There's just too much wierdness here.

Ridiculous was from my perspective and I understand why it would not appear the same from yours or cicero's.

Cicero, that decision depends entirely upon who is on the lynching block. There are some people who could show up there that, for my opinion, a no lynch would be a better option. SirLags is not one of those players, hence my vote on him. I realize the witching hour draws near, but I think enough people are active here that it isn't too late to make a better decision (wagon) than TinVision or Dybeck.

[dybeck]

I'm pretty sure that SirLaggalot is a beach bum townie. Look at the way he was mega suspicious of the vanilla townie claims yesterday.

[Battle Mage]

forgive me if i'm wrong, but hasn't Laggsy already claimed?
I'm sure there was a reason that we havent lynched him already...

[cicero]

Well, I wouldn't say it's "ridiculous"; in my experence, when someone claims an overly complicated role with lots of wierd things going on, there's a higher chance they're lying (in this case, several different abilites, different unknown probabilites of each ability to work, claimed mason partner, and claimed seperate "pre-dawn" discussion period that apparently dosn't apply to the other claimed mason group.) It seems more like a role a scum would make up in his own defense rather then a role the mod would actually put into the game.

I just wish we had a bit more time to discuss this now. The more I think about it , the more I think we need to have TinVision's mason partner come out to confirm his claim, either now or tommorow. There's just too much wierdness here.

Ridiculous was from my perspective and I understand why it would not appear the same from yours or cicero's.

Cicero, that decision depends entirely upon who is on the lynching block. There are some people who could show up there that, for my opinion, a no lynch would be a better option. SirLags is not one of those players, hence my vote on him. I realize the witching hour draws near, but I think enough people are active here that it isn't too late to make a better decision (wagon) than TinVision or Dybeck.[/quote]

A no lynch is not a better option than a mislynch (not a possible mislynch this time. An ACTUAL mislynch as in a lynch of someone who turns out townie). A mislynch gives the town information and has the effect of ruling out one person as scum. That's why lots of games turn around for town as the day goes along. I think the fact that MoS or Ecto are constantly doing things to facilitate a no lynch is as scummy as hell. I'm also seeing terribly scummy bandwagon derailing behavior from Yosarian.

At the same time, Sir Lags is a perfectly valid early lynch target as far as I'm concerned. More than Tinvision really. When I made my initial post it wasnt meant to be "lets all build a new tinvision wagon". It was - go back to the people you had already had wagons on and pick one. That way when tomorrow comes you have info on all the people who had focussed on those people. From that perspective Sir Laggs is great. If you can't find someone super scummy enough to lynch - find someone who has been talked about a lot by most players.

[cicero]

EBWOP: Sorry for buggering the tags.

[Yosarian2]

I'm also seeing terribly scummy bandwagon derailing behavior from Yosarian.

What the hell???

I've been trying to get some kind of lynch, ANY kind of lynch, for the last several days. Bandwagon derailing??? What game are you reading?

[Yosarian2]

forgive me if i'm wrong, but hasn't Laggsy already claimed?
I'm sure there was a reason that we havent lynched him already...

Meh, he claimed beach bum townie, same as the sample townie PM in the mod post in post 1. It could be true, but it's also the easiest possible fakeclaim for any scum to make, so reading much into that seems silly to me.

[Dasquian]

Unvote: dybeck

Vote: Sir.Laggalot

I'm much happier with this bandwagon and we should have enough time to see it happen. Also I agree that TV's claim has a number of big red warning signs on it - multi-part nights, weird combinations of powers, unspecified chances of failure. I will definitely be planning to revisit this tomorrow.

[cicero]

I'm also seeing terribly scummy bandwagon derailing behavior from Yosarian.

What the hell???

I've been trying to get some kind of lynch, ANY kind of lynch, for the last several days. Bandwagon derailing??? What game are you reading?

Just got my eyebrows raised by your whole "the Frog Brothers are probably good guys, let's not vote tinvision and we need to get a claim from Tinvision's mason partner to verify" line of chit-chat. Scummy. Don't worry - I'm not advocating anyone vote for you yet or anything. Just flaggin' em as I see 'em. The fact is that (a) he has a scummy scummy claim, and (b) if he IS what he says he is, demanding that the other frog brother out himself is highly highly problematic for obvious reasons.

[Yosarian2]

Just got my eyebrows raised by your whole "the Frog Brothers are probably good guys, let's not vote tinvision and we need to get a claim from Tinvision's mason partner to verify" line of chit-chat. Scummy.

What's "scummy" about that?

What part of it do do you disagree with? Do you disagree with me that the name claim is strong, or do you disagree with me that the rest of the claim is damn wierd?

Don't worry - I'm not advocating anyone vote for you yet or anything. Just flaggin' em as I see 'em. The fact is that (a) he has a scummy scummy claim, and (b) if he IS what he says he is, demanding that the other frog brother out himself is highly highly problematic for obvious reasons.

That's...exactally what I've been saying. He has a scummy claim, and because there's a high chance of him being scum, we will need to verify his claim, tommorow at the latest. If he can do that with a tracker investigation, that's great; if not, we'll need him to name his mason partner. Why? Because there's a high chance he's scum with a Flying Pumpkinish mess of a claim like that. I'm not liking the idea of lynching a claimed mason without giving him the chance to have his partner verifiy his claim right now; otherwise, I'd just lynch him right now.

What type of action are you suggesting, exactally? Because it sounds like you're just raising the exact same concerns I already raised, without offering any solution to them.

[Mastermind of Sin]

In the meantime my vote stands. its been a long time since i have seen such an untempting power role claim under pressure, and frankly, i'm considering requesting the reveal of Tinvisions partner tomorrow, should he survive today. (yeh i know this is hypocritical, but fight fire with fire. )

BM

I cut out the rest of this quote for the purposes of this post, but let it be said that I don't really think TinVision's claim is bullshit. It makes a lot of sense to me. Variable rates of success depending on which action he chooses makes sense,

since the Frog Brothers were incompetent

. BM, not having seen the movie, would not have known this and saw a chance to push for a lynch against a claimed power role.

I think we ought to give Tinvision 1 night to prove himself.

However, don't expect an easy ride tomorrow. If i'm still alive, i can assure you that you will be asked alot more questions about your role. Specifically, any details you can paraphrase from your role pm would be useful, in order to ascertain whether we have a similar scenario as featured in RFM, with the Cop, who couldnt do anything on nights where his target was already targetted by someone else, or something similar.

BM

Emphasis mine.

I agree with you about Mariyta's insistence on directing power roles publically being detrimental to the town. What i don't understand is your certainty about Tinvisions claim.

There is no reason for me to unvote at this point. He is miles from a lynch, and there is the slimmest chance in the world of him getting lynched today.

So why the panic? Secondly

i didnt ask him to out his partner today, for obvious reasons

. However, if he's still alive tomorrow, i think i will be pushing for such a move.

Also, i agree with you about Dybeck. No-Lynching today seems like the best thing we can do (

other than lynching Tinvision

)

BM

Emphasis mine.

Yeh, my vote stands and i'm feeling pretty content with a Tinvision lynch at this point.

BM

It was a suggestion if we thought we needed to prove his claim. Jeez. People get pissy for no good reason all the time.

actually i think you might have a point about Watching me. In fact, assuming we no-lynch today, i'd reccommend it even.
I'm not sure that tracking a Mason will achieve anything-best check with the mod first to see whether a mason can be tracked to their partner at night. My suspicion would be the answer to that is no.

BM

Is anyone else having a problem when they read these quotes? BM repeatedly goes after TinVision and says he should be lynched, while at the same time saying we should test him tonight. On top of that, he says that he's not unvoting because TinVision isn't anywhere near a lynch. That's a horrible reason to keep voting him. That just contributes to this deadline No Lynch possibility, because it's an extra cast vote. I checked, and Battle Mage hasn't ever advocated making sure we avoid No Lynch. However, he hasn't really commented on the subject directly

at all

, which makes me think he was avoiding the subject while everyone else took sides. The only evidence I can find is him mentioning "assuming we no-lynch today...", where he mentions the possibility as if it's not a bad thing. It's one thing to argue against focusing on only a few people. That's a game theory discussion, and everyone has their own views. It's another thing to ignore reality and act as if leaving your vote on someone

you don't think can be lynched today

is *not* going to harm the town at deadline. On top of this, BM wants to lynch TinVision today, but said he wasn't going to ask for TV to out his partner "for obvious reason". What obvious reasons are these? I fail to see why you would not ask TinVision to out his partner before he died, so that we could avoid lynching him if he gets confirmed.

Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage

You'd better confirm yourself quickly, as far as I'm concerned.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Oh, and I can't really see a possibility for BM's partner unless they tried to get each other lynched, so I'd be really interested in seeing who he claims it is. I think it's bullshit.

[cicero]

Get that F'ing vote off Battlemage until tomorrow, MoS. No one is following you on to a successful BM wagon before deadline. You want to change your initials to

FoS

or something?

Honestly.