Mini 1800 - Game Over

[Masquerade]

I dunno but that response to Karnos hammering looked a suspicious amount like you knew Dier was gonna flip town, Math.

[Saru]

The fact that Titus suspects Mecha but not Math for pretty much doing the same thing is scummy, to say the least.

Last time I checked, both Mecha and Math have been very similar in pushing certain targets hard as fuck, usually the same target(i.e. Karnos, Dierfire, etc.), and have just generally shown a pattern of buddying. I personally don't think that both of them can be scum in this scenario. The buddying is way too obvious and I feel, at this point in the game, scum would want to start distancing themselves from one another. I feel like Mecha has a bigger chance to be the town in this scenario because his reasoning for voting who he has, hasn't been all that weak. It seems like he puts some thought into it. Math, OTOH, has been pretty abysmal when it comes to giving legit reasons for voting people. Her reasons for voting Dierfire and suspecting him were weak as fuck(as Magna has pointed out), and I feel like a fucking idiot for buying into them. She just seems to yell out "SCUM!" onto people when they put a sliver of suspicion onto her, or try to counter her.

The fact that Math said in 1308 that "Magna [is] town by PoE but his posts are super shitty" just looks like an attempt to plant seeds of doubt when Dierfire flips town. Her reaction to Karnos hammering Dierfire was even worse, as Magna pointed out in 1384. It seemed like an attempt to set the stage for a D3 Karnos mislynch when Dierfire flips town. Her crazy push onto Karnos, even after his claim, is a bit strange, and was really the only reason I was feeling she could be town, as scum pushing that hard would look suspect. Too risky. But, honestly, I feel like maybe that push wasn't such a big deal after all. She might have tried hard to plant the seed of doubt in town's mind about Karnos, but when she saw it was hard to do so, chose Dierfire as a target. She seems to be the kind of person willing to take that risk.

This is where my scum read of Titus comes in. The fact that Titus doesn't really think Math is scum is annoying. She says "maybe Math", which feels like skirting the wagon of her scum buddy pretty damn hard. What exactly is the difference between Mecha and Math here? I don't really see what makes Mecha more scummier than Math in Titus' eyes. I feel like Titus might give a shitty meta excuse, but I wouldn't buy that for my life. Until Titus specifically points out posts from Mecha that seem like absolute scum, I'm not buying it. Actually, I even point out why one of her big reasons for suspecting Mecha is terrible in my read of her in 1301.

Also, as a side note, Titus felt that Dierfire was an "acceptable"(1275) lynch, but never really explains why. She might point to 1163, but that is absolute garbage in terms of reasoning.

Also, as another side note, for most of the start when Titus replaces in, she sees Math as scum but refuses to vote her(1175) for no particular reason and then just says that Math "just obvtowned with that comment about lynching those who don't care" which is a terrible way of putting it. Math actually says that she'd more willing to lynch those who didn't present an actual argument versus those who do(1269) which isn't "obvious town" at all. It just sounds like Math was advocating for a policy lynch, more than anything else. Which, if you look at it, is scummy given that Math had actual scum reads that she was pushing, so to all of sudden say that policy lynching would be ok with her, is scummy. Not obvious town. This seemed like a subtle way for Titus to get rid of her fake scum read of Math.

At this point, it looks like Math and Titus are good choices for a scum team. Math, more so. If Math flips scum, then Titus is definitely my next target. As for a third partner, I'm not entirely sure. I'm looking at Dwlee only because I read the slot as scummy, and not much more. That might change based on flips and whatnot.

VOTE: MathBlade

[MathBlade]

Can't risk it.

VOTE: Dierfire

I hope this is a bus.

This is an atrocious hammer.

The majority of people hadn't responded yet from the site outage. WTF.

I have to go to work now but Karnos tomorrow people. He is probably bussing but if not that was opportunistic as fuck.

Masquerade if you mean this post it is called being a decent player. People hadn't come on since the outage. This hammer was scummy as fuck. You give people a chance to fucking see things and play. The fact this hammer didn't allow that makes it terribad.

[MathBlade]

Responding in line

The fact that Titus suspects Mecha but not Math for pretty much doing the same thing is scummy, to say the least.

Agreed but I think it is Titus buddying me because we are always at each other's throats and we both want a game where we are not screaming at each other.

Last time I checked, both Mecha and Math have been very similar in pushing certain targets hard as fuck, usually the same target(i.e. Karnos, Dierfire, etc.), and have just generally shown a pattern of buddying. I personally don't think that both of them can be scum in this scenario. The buddying is way too obvious and I feel, at this point in the game, scum would want to start distancing themselves from one another. I feel like Mecha has a bigger chance to be the town in this scenario because his reasoning for voting who he has, hasn't been all that weak. It seems like he puts some thought into it. Math, OTOH, has been pretty abysmal when it comes to giving legit reasons for voting people. Her reasons for voting Dierfire and suspecting him were weak as fuck(as Magna has pointed out), and I feel like a fucking idiot for buying into them. She just seems to yell out "SCUM!" onto people when they put a sliver of suspicion onto her, or try to counter her.

Your memory sucks. I have been explaining it pretty damn well and you fucking quote me on a lot of the posts. It looks like more you are trying to pick between me and Mecha and making up reasons rather than Mecha and I are both obv town. There is a reason I have been protecting Mecha so long. THINK!

The fact that Math said in 1308 that "Magna [is] town by PoE but his posts are super shitty" just looks like an attempt to plant seeds of doubt when Dierfire flips town. Her reaction to Karnos hammering Dierfire was even worse, as Magna pointed out in 1384. It seemed like an attempt to set the stage for a D3 Karnos mislynch when Dierfire flips town. Her crazy push onto Karnos, even after his claim, is a bit strange, and was really the only reason I was feeling she could be town, as scum pushing that hard would look suspect. Too risky. But, honestly, I feel like maybe that push wasn't such a big deal after all. She might have tried hard to plant the seed of doubt in town's mind about Karnos, but when she saw it was hard to do so, chose Dierfire as a target. She seems to be the kind of person willing to take that risk.

Just no. I have been scum reading Karnos since day fucking one. Yes it has been hard to explain but for the love of all that is holy I have had to partner hunt all damn game. It is either great or shitty depending upon how you do it. Since people refuse to even consider Karnos scum it is like I am on my own banging my head against the damn wall. It just pisses me off. Magna's posts are shitty. Karnos's hammer was bad. These things are objective facts.

This is where my scum read of Titus comes in. The fact that Titus doesn't really think Math is scum is annoying. She says "maybe Math", which feels like skirting the wagon of her scum buddy pretty damn hard. What exactly is the difference between Mecha and Math here? I don't really see what makes Mecha more scummier than Math in Titus' eyes. I feel like Titus might give a shitty meta excuse, but I wouldn't buy that for my life. Until Titus specifically points out posts from Mecha that seem like absolute scum, I'm not buying it. Actually, I even point out why one of her big reasons for suspecting Mecha is terrible in my read of her in 1301.

I agree Titus is probably scum buddying up to me with Karnos.

Also, as a side note, Titus felt that Dierfire was an "acceptable"(1275) lynch, but never really explains why. She might point to 1163, but that is absolute garbage in terms of reasoning.

Also, as another side note, for most of the start when Titus replaces in, she sees Math as scum but refuses to vote her(1175) for no particular reason and then just says that Math "just obvtowned with that comment about lynching those who don't care" which is a terrible way of putting it. Math actually says that she'd more willing to lynch those who didn't present an actual argument versus those who do(1269) which isn't "obvious town" at all. It just sounds like Math was advocating for a policy lynch, more than anything else. Which, if you look at it, is scummy given that Math had actual scum reads that she was pushing, so to all of sudden say that policy lynching would be ok with her, is scummy. Not obvious town. This seemed like a subtle way for Titus to get rid of her fake scum read of Math.

At this point, it looks like Math and Titus are good choices for a scum team. Math, more so. If Math flips scum, then Titus is definitely my next target. As for a third partner, I'm not entirely sure. I'm looking at Dwlee only because I read the slot as scummy, and not much more. That might change based on flips and whatnot.

VOTE: MathBlade

I would be okay with a Titus lynch but I think Karnos is better because then you can get rid of scum. Scum that no one wants to lynch because of a fake made up bullshit claim.

This entire day feels like people looking for a reason to call me scum rather than actually believing I am scum. These posts look so damn reachy.

[karnos]

MathBlade essentially blackmailed me into hammering. If I didn't hammer, and dierfire flipped scum, it's pretty obvious how MathBlade could turn that into a lynch on me the following day. In hindsight, knowing dierfire is town, I suspect scum MathBlade was just trying to push me to hammer a townie, but that can't be helped today.

So you are saying you hammered a Town player (I'm not clear on whether you actually suspected Dier or not) because you thought Mathblade was bussing and if you didn't hammer you'd be lynched today with a scum flip?

Why would Math push a counter-wagon to herself (scum in your scenario) on a partner?

I feel like this has been asked and answered already.

My hammer was a reaction to MathBlade's post. Before that post, I was reading dierfire as town, which is why I didn't want to get involved in the wagon. MathBlade posted the accusation that I was trying to save scum!dierfire, right around the same time Titus & Dwlee both posted intent to hammer.

I got worried that I made a mistake. Yes, I thought it could be a bus, and I didn't want to take the risk that it was by refusing the lynch myself. In my mind I had to act quickly: if I didn't dwlee or titus would have hammered, and MathBlade would easily turn to lynch me on the following day "see look karnos refused to lynch his scum buddy dierfire".

I feel dumb now, because at this point it's obvious it was just a ploy to push me to hammer a townie.

[Saru]

Your memory sucks. I have been explaining it pretty damn well and you fucking quote me on a lot of the posts. It looks like more you are trying to pick between me and Mecha and making up reasons rather than Mecha and I are both obv town. There is a reason I have been protecting Mecha so long. THINK!

My memory sucks? Really? So, please, refresh it, why don't you? Point me to your posts where you scum read Dierfire for legitimate reasons. Most of what I see is you just nit-picking Dierfire for the dumbest things(1219). Your 1279 is equally terrible. If I understand it correctly, you seemed to hate that Dierfire was reading Masq as null but never interacted with him enough, and so that's scummy because he didn't put effort into moving Masq into a town or scum read? Let me know if that's it, because if it is, I don't see what the scummy thing really is. Dierfire had other people he felt like voting/scum read, and so I'm not sure why he'd choose to comment on Masq since he claims that he was still reading up on him. It only makes sense to actively push your scum reads while you're still reading up on your null reads.

Just no. I have been scum reading Karnos since day fucking one. Yes it has been hard to explain but for the love of all that is holy I have had to partner hunt all damn game. It is either great or shitty depending upon how you do it. Since people refuse to even consider Karnos scum it is like I am on my own banging my head against the damn wall. It just pisses me off. Magna's posts are shitty. Karnos's hammer was bad. These things are objective facts.

Stop. I've already pointed out how Magna's posts aren't shitty. You've yet to counter me on that. Calling things "objective facts" is only making me scum read you more. You're coming off as desperate.

I agree Titus is probably scum buddying up to me with Karnos.

Titus is buddying up to you because she's scum but also because you both want a game where you guys aren't screaming at each other? What. The. Fuck. How do I even respond to this? I don't give a flying fuck about the history between you and Titus when it comes to how you guys interact with each other, nor am I going to take the time to check. Please stop using that as a reason for anything.

I would be okay with a Titus lynch but I think Karnos is better because then you can get rid of scum. Scum that no one wants to lynch because of a fake made up bullshit claim.

This entire day feels like people looking for a reason to call me scum rather than actually believing I am scum. These posts look so damn reachy.

You mean like how you've been looking for reasons to call Karnos scum? You've reached on Karnos pretty fucking hard. Don't act like you're the victim here.

Responses in

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[Titus]

@Saru, Please don't respond inline. Those are hard to follow.

To me, Math is doing the same tunnel she always does and doesn't take in new information. Is it possible she's scum? Yes. Likely, no.

Mecha and Dwlee need rope like yesterday.

[MechaGoomba]

Errgh.

I have been worrying about Titus, and there are parts where Saru is pretty much saying exactly what I'm thinking. But the thing is, "Titus is doing strange, inconsistent things with her suspicions of Math" is definitely true. The problem is that there's really very little to distinguish between "Titus tried to bus Math and is now pulling back from it" and "Titus wants to not get blamed for mislynching Math."
I mean, the whole thing with Dierfire and such is odd, but Math's been doing slapfights with Magna for a while. Same for the thing with karnos; anyone should be able to recognize that Math is going to push scum!karnos if any possibility to do so exists.

I guess part of the problem is that Math is posting a ton of bad things, but they're all bad in a very consistent way with a clear (though flawed) thought process behind them.

Welp, at least there's one thing I'm certain about.
VOTE: Titus

PE: So you bother to explain your townreads as soon as you get connected as scum to them, but you keep doing the same infoless push on your scumreads? And, of course, you mention absolutely nothing about the tiny insignificant detail that

literally everyone else in the game who scumreads me does so because they think I'm scum with MathBlade.

Seriously, if you want to be treated as town then at some point you will need to stop assuming everyone you talk to can telepathically divine your true motives.

Show me one reason you have ever given for scumreading me that doesn't revolve around Math also being scum. Heck, I'll even accept someone else's reasoning that you agree with. But at least make an effort to make your reads consistent.

[Saru]

@Saru, Please don't respond inline. Those are hard to follow.

Hard to follow replies for me when it's not inline. I like to be precise about who/what I'm responding to so there isn't any confusion. Not really going to stop that unless others find it hard to follow as well. I hate having to cut out quotes section by section to respond. Gets too hectic in the reply box for me that way.

[Titus]

@Mecha, Already done. When you said it was ok for me to think you were scum with Math but not Persivul (Dwlee now).

My push on you is hardly infoless. You scared? Dwlee and you are likely scumpartners. Just need to find the last.

[Saru]

@Mecha, Already done. When you said it was ok for me to think you were scum with Math but not Persivul (Dwlee now).

I've already pointed out how Mecha doing this isn't scummy in my read of you in 1301. Don't be a lazy scum and go read it.

[Titus]

@Saru, You also said you were damn positive Dierfire was scum.

Why don't you listen for once?

[Saru]

@Saru, You also said you were damn positive Dierfire was scum.

Why don't you listen for once?

I also said that depending on what Dierfire flips, I would look back at MathBlade.

Why don't you read for once?

[Titus]

I did. Look back at doesn't say anything of value other than look at me. Second, it's Notconsistent with your supposed strength of scumread on Dier.

Objecting that you cannot get an easy mislynch in Math or out of places to look or self absorbed? Help me figure out which is you.

[Saru]

I did. Look back at doesn't say anything of value other than look at me. Second, it's Notconsistent with your supposed strength of scumread on Dier.

I like how you ignore my post about Mecha, and then choose to say I don't listen because I thought that Dierfire was scum, literally changing the whole topic. Dodging 101.

Also, how is it not consistent? I very clearly say in 1312 that depending on what my scum reads flip, I would visit the whole Math vs. Magna thing. Seeing that Dierfire flipped town, I feel Math is scum due to the Magna interactions and her attitude towards the Dierfire hammer. Disagree? 5 sentences or less.

[Titus]

Math is a stubborn fool. T v Ts happen.

I didn't ignore your post on Mecha. Disagreeing =/= ignoring.

[Saru]

Ok, so then, why do you disagree? Stop disagreeing in silence and just thinking that I can read your mind.

[Titus]

Mecha is scum flailing. Pushing a quicklynch, kissing up to Magna.

I'm not walling. Don't confuse that for silence.

[Saru]

Mecha is scum flailing. Pushing a quicklynch, kissing up to Magna.

By quick-lynch, I'm assuming you mean the one on Dierfire? In that case, don't you feel that Math was also pushing the quick-lynch? Didn't you see Math kissing my ass in 1202 and 1208? Like seriously, how are you ignoring these things?

If anything, Mecha had infinitely better reasoning to vote for Dierfire compared to Math. How you see him as scum but not Math is beyond me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Saru

– since you are here and around could explain to me how you don’t see the Mecha links to Mathblade I am seeing? If you need I can run-down specific posts for you but in summary I think his reasons for Town reading Math are contrived (saying that she has terrible logic but is consistent logic as an example). Also -

The buddying is way too obvious and I feel, at this point in the game, scum would want to start distancing themselves from one another

Why do you come to this conclusion? Given we have two mislynches and two kills so far scum has less incentive, in my mind, to distance. There are 9 players left alive. Assuming 3 scum (which is the strongest logical set-up with the information we have so far) a mislynch and successful Nightkill puts the game in LYLO tomorrow.

In fact this theory seems to directly undercut your Titus – Math theory as Titus is treating Math very clearly as bad Town.

@Dwlee

– Who is scum? You aren’t going to be allowed to float through this game like you were in Shos’s game.

OK you're going to need to clarify this because the only way I can read it is that every wagon on town is lead by scum and everyone that is voted but not lynched must be scum, which is stupid.

Well I can’t speak to your ability to parse nuanced thoughts but clearly this is an oversimplification.

Math is scum who was under significant fire via votes and suspicion. Suddenly a Dierfire counter-wagon appears for frankly pretty spurious reasons. And gets pushed to lynch flipping Town. The manner in which you seem to suggest that it is absurd that this is a possibility speaks to why I think you are scum – you are attempting with oversimplified generalities to suggest my suspicion and conclusions are not valid.

Nobody is going to pay you for a gold ingot you've shit on. Because yes, there is gold there, gold is worth something, but it is your fucking responsibility to clean off the shit.
I can barely muster the willpower to read your posts because I know for a fact there are so many things I could do that would bring me more enjoyment. The primary reason I haven't replaced out is that I'm convinced the players who aren't you are much more critical to the town's success.

Nope. You don’t get to frame this in that manner. I just caught you selectively framing small snippets of my posting in a manner to suggest that I had no content. But there was plenty of content there. You just cropped it in a manner to discredit in a way that is scummy. And now are lobbing some vague allusion to explain your scummy play.

I'm trying to understand your viewpoint here but it's not really making sense. You look at the way Math's posting, determine it to be scummy. Then, when you read further, you start to get a gut feeling, or something along those lines, that makes you doubt your read? So then you go after me, who you had as a scumread because you thought I made sense as scum with Math.
But then, why not go for Dwlee? You thought originally "Math's scum, so Mecha's probably scum with Math." But "Mecha's scum with Math" depends on "Math's scum." You have no reason to be more sure about me than you are about Math.

This literally is a scum-claim. “I don’t understand … you can’t suspect me … why aren’t you going for Dwlee instead?”.

@Titus

– do you not think this looks like Mecha wanting to shift attention to Dwlee?

[Titus]

First, I have 30 years of Math experience. 1202 and 1208 are her thrilled you agree with her, not her kissing your ass.

Math had a decent reason to vote Dierfire. It was him or them.

[Titus]

@Magna, It does. That doesn't mean it cannot be scum scum.

If you think Mecha scumclaimed, vote him with me. *bats eyelashes*

[MagnaofIllusion]

Crap ... Titus might be correct on Dwlee ...

Because face-palming a "bad hammer" after he stated intent to hammer a mere 3 posts earlier is not Town.

With regard to the point that I've been pushing, I did dig up a similarly indirect attack with similar wording (underlined) from karnos in a game that he played as Town.

The way you are jumping at his defense

is rather interesting

, given that Ranger was under the same number of lynch votes and you certainly didn't jump out at the person who put her at -2 L. My understanding is that this game doesn't have Masons. There is no way you could know transcend is innocent, yet you are acting as if you are positive he is.

Very odd

.

I still think that this is slightly different from his 382 in this game, and I'm not inclined to give a pass to the behavior, because it feels most like the point is to turn aside criticism by threatening a confrontation (his 396 certainly makes it clear that he thinks it unlikely that MechaGoomba actually revealed knowledge of how many Mafia players we have).

A quick (and admittedly somewhat rushed) read through the games mentioned earlier leaves me believing the argument advanced by qubixes in 372 that karnos is playing this game more carefully and cautiously than those earlier games (in which he was Town). In a few instances (such as his comfort with chasing wagons to L-1 in the game referenced above), this might be a matter of learning, but even then he seems to have taken an odd lesson from it in 56 (someone mentioned this already, but the point is that it's strange for him to be worried about being implicated if someone else drove a quick lynch and he happened to be on the wagon).

I agree with qubixes in 546 and disagree with Masquerade in 542--I can think of reasons why a Mafia player would want to hear more discussion (to buy time to turn the lynch somewhere else, to allow partners to plan night actions) or at least to claim to want to hear more discussion (to appear proactive and therefore Town).

UNVOTE: Kappy
VOTE: karnos

UNVOTE: karnos

I've changed my mind; we still have many players catching up, and I don't feel that I have a good handle on what's going on in the last few pages. I'm not ready for claims/lynches at this point.

Expect my return within 24 hours.

I'm still not entirely certain what's going on here, but I think that I know enough.

VOTE: karnos

THIS IS L-1 (AGAIN) FOR KARNOS

UNVOTE: karnos

He could be lying, and he certainly could be a Mafia Neapolitan, but now that he's locked into a claim we'll have more information to judge his alignment as the game continues (in addition to his results, we can also judge whether Neapolitan is more likely to be Town or Mafia if we see some other Town/Mafia roles flip, or after mass claim).

I'll look at JohnnyFarrar next, and Kappy is still on my list of suspicious characters.

intent to hammer

the karnos dierfire associative tells are real af

I think you might actually be town from how stupid that was.
God two bad hammers in a row. Dank maymay

[MechaGoomba]

kissing up to Magna.

What the actual fuck. Are we reading the same game?
For that matter, "pushing a quicklynch" would apply a lot more to, you know, literally everyone voting Math.

saying that she has terrible logic but is consistent logic as an example

Her logic is terrible but the manner in which it is terrible is consistent. She is terrible in the same ways consistently.

This literally is a scum-claim. “I don’t understand … you can’t suspect me … why aren’t you going for Dwlee instead?”.

Do I have to attach "I am town" to the end of every post for it not to be a scumclaim?
Titus's reads make no sense. Given what she has stated, she ought to be voting someone other than who she is. Her failure to provide any reasoning indicates she is being dishonest.
I made an attempt to get her to talk to me because, especially without the weight of reputation on my side, saying "what Titus is doing makes no sense" is not an argument that's going to be listened to very often. She's exemplary at getting people to follow her with the minimum of explanation, which is as useful for scumplay as it is for townplay.

Already done. When you said it was ok for me to think you were scum with Math but not Persivul

Titus that is fucking stupid. "I see why you think" is not the same thing as "Oh I guess you're right" in any world.
Is it that fucking hard to believe that a player who's universally scumread is going to start self-doubting?
You can't debate that I was defending Math too much. Nobody can debate that. Recognizing my own faults (one of which is tendency to overcommit to an argument) is a virtue.

[Saru]

@Saru

– since you are here and around could explain to me how you don’t see the Mecha links to Mathblade I am seeing? If you need I can run-down specific posts for you but in summary I think his reasons for Town reading Math are contrived (saying that she has terrible logic but is consistent logic as an example).

Because I don't see why Mecha would choose to link himself to Math this hard(see below for more). What reason does he have to do this? Why can't he just let Math get lynched and just fly under the radar? Losing one scum-buddy at this point wouldn't be the end of the world, especially if it means going undetected. Sure, if one scum-buddy was dead at this point, I can see why scum!Mecha would want to defend scum!Math so hard. But that's not the case. Right now, the scum have the advantage. Why would they throw that out? You can show me all the links in the world, but if you can't show motivation, I'm not going to care.

Why do you come to this conclusion? Given we have two mislynches and two kills so far scum has less incentive, in my mind, to distance. There are 9 players left alive. Assuming 3 scum (which is the strongest logical set-up with the information we have so far) a mislynch and successful Nightkill puts the game in LYLO tomorrow.

Yes, but distancing can also be viable strategy here. By choosing not to, they leave themselves wide open to being caught butt-fucking each other. That comes off as risky. Genuine question: do you think that Math and Mecha would be willing to do that here? Because, from my POV, Mecha has no real reason as scum to defend Math. He would only be making matters worse for himself, especially considering the fact that Mecha had no real suspicion on him UNTIL he chose to start defending Math. It just reeks of stupidity and n00b. I don't feel that Mecha is either of those. Also, if both Mecha and Math were looking for a mislynch at this point in the game, why in the world would they vote two different people? Math voted Karnos and Mecha voted Titus. Doesn't it make sense for them as a scum-team who are buddying to get a mislynch to send the game into LYLO(as you say) to be on the same wagon?

In fact this theory seems to directly undercut your Titus – Math theory as Titus is treating Math very clearly as bad Town.

No, because my point of buddying(in this case) is that it is a two way street. The fact that Math sees Titus as possible scum but Titus doesn't see Math as possible scum tells me that they're both not buddying. Only one of them seems to be doing so to help the other not get lynched. Plus, it makes sense for Math not to buddy up with Titus at this point since she has already pointed to feeling that Titus is scum. To switch now would be obvious. The thing to note, however, is unlike Mecha who is hard-defending Math, Titus is choosing to play it subtle. That's the big difference when it comes to not throwing out the scum advantage, as I point out above. Especially when she says "maybe Math" in 1388 after she says that Math is "obvious town" in 1275.

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