Open 19 - Nightless (Over?) before 430

[Guardian]

Yeah wait, it would only be hypocritical if the scenario is the same -- if IH is scum. How would any townie *know* this?

If IH turns up scum, Thok is highly likely his partner.

[Skruffs]

Don't jump to conclusion, Guardian.
You are much, much more sure of IH's alignment than Thok. If IH is scum, you are much more likely to be his partner than THok is, imo.

[Guardian]

Skruffs, that's retarded. Why would I push IH all freaking game if I were his partner?

But whatever, if IH is scum and then you lynch me, it will still be very hard for town to lose.

[Thok]

Yeah wait, it would only be hypocritical if the scenario is the same -- if IH is scum. How would any townie *know* this?

If IH turns up scum, Thok is highly likely his partner.

X

The situation is similar enough already. Guardian has

already

attacked me based on the assumption that IH is scum and that I've been defending him for reasons he doesn't understand.

(Also Skruffs, so far in this game, you've claimed that I've made arguments that only make sense if I'm scum with Guardian, that I've made arguments that only make sense if I'm scum with IH, and you've also claimed that I'm scum with VitR. At some point, I'm not going to be scum because it requires me to be partners with too many living people. Guardian has also claimed that I'm likely to be scum both with Tony and with IH.)

I'll also point out that this was also much of Setael's reasoning for attacking me when she first replaced in yesterday was that I was defending IH and that she didn't like my reasoning. So I feel skeptical about that sort of argument actually being a protown argument.

[Guardian]

Yeah wait, it would only be hypocritical if the scenario is the same -- if IH is scum. How would any townie *know* this?

If IH turns up scum, Thok is highly likely his partner.

X

The situation is similar enough already. Guardian has

already

attacked me based on the assumption that IH is scum and that I've been defending him for reasons he doesn't understand.

(Also Skruffs, so far in this game, you've claimed that I've made arguments that only make sense if I'm scum with Guardian, that I've made arguments that only make sense if I'm scum with IH, and you've also claimed that I'm scum with VitR. At some point, I'm not going to be scum because it requires me to be partners with too many living people. Guardian has also claimed that I'm likely to be scum both with Tony and with IH.)

I'll also point out that this was also much of Setael's reasoning for attacking me when she first replaced in yesterday was that I was defending IH and that she didn't like my reasoning. So I feel skeptical about that sort of argument actually being a protown argument.

X

Your post didn't include a vote for IH.

[Simenon]

Vote Count

IH (2)- VitaminR, Guardian
VitaminR (1)- Skruffs
Skruffs (1)- IH

[Thok]

Yeah wait, it would only be hypocritical if the scenario is the same -- if IH is scum. How would any townie *know* this?

If IH turns up scum, Thok is highly likely his partner.

X

The situation is similar enough already. Guardian has

already

attacked me based on the assumption that IH is scum and that I've been defending him for reasons he doesn't understand.

(Also Skruffs, so far in this game, you've claimed that I've made arguments that only make sense if I'm scum with Guardian, that I've made arguments that only make sense if I'm scum with IH, and you've also claimed that I'm scum with VitR. At some point, I'm not going to be scum because it requires me to be partners with too many living people. Guardian has also claimed that I'm likely to be scum both with Tony and with IH.)

I'll also point out that this was also much of Setael's reasoning for attacking me when she first replaced in yesterday was that I was defending IH and that she didn't like my reasoning. So I feel skeptical about that sort of argument actually being a protown argument.

X

Your post didn't include a vote for IH.

X

Your post didn't respond to any of my points. And it continued an annoying quote pyramid (which I'm continuing for comedic purposes/annoyance value). And your request that I vote IH is weird given the rest of the discussion. Are you expecting a red X to make suddenly vote IH, given the rest of the discussion that's currently happening? Would you have found a vote for IH in my previous post reasonable at all given what I have been saying recently?

[VitaminR]

@VitR-it's not so much the fact that you had a blind spot for Romanus, but that you chose not to comment about him at all at various points. I feel like that ignoring him was in contrast to your play with respect to other people, and was possibly an attempt to avoid having to attack Romanus at the time without seeming to make a connection to him.

Meh, I do that to people I think pro-town. I've done the same for Skruffs (and for you up until the start of this day).

[Skruffs]

(Also Skruffs, so far in this game, you've claimed that I've made arguments that only make sense if I'm scum with Guardian, that I've made arguments that only make sense if I'm scum with IH, and you've also claimed that I'm scum with VitR. At some point, I'm not going to be scum because it requires me to be partners with too many living people.

Are you serious?
That's friggin AWESOME.
Could you show me quotes?

I'll also point out that this was also much of Setael's reasoning for attacking me when she first replaced in yesterday was that I was defending IH and that she didn't like my reasoning. So I feel skeptical about that sort of argument actually being a protown argument.

What I don't like Thok is that you seem to be saying IH is town but you have not placed your vote one someone you think is scum.
Do you intend to let IH be lynched through apathy, if you think he is town?
Also, do you think VitaminR is town?
I'm not telling you to vote IH or to vote anyone else, but I want a confirmation that you don't intend to change the way things are going, if you don't.

Mod : Please prod everyone since we are so close to deadline

[Thok]

(Also Skruffs, so far in this game, you've claimed that I've made arguments that only make sense if I'm scum with Guardian, that I've made arguments that only make sense if I'm scum with IH, and you've also claimed that I'm scum with VitR. At some point, I'm not going to be scum because it requires me to be partners with too many living people.

Are you serious?
That's friggin AWESOME.
Could you show me quotes?

The scum with Guardian thing from you was back with the whole Guardian using bus discussion (see post 1420), and isn't really that strong.

The you've suggested I'm scum with VitR includes posts 1759, and possibly your 1734 when you asked me to discredit a VitR-Thok scum team.

The Thok-IH comments come from the analysis of of me calling Guardian hypocritical on this page.

None of these are really strong enough to actually form a link, IMHO, and of course I know that all such pairings are wrong (since I know I'm town). Part of the point of that post is that I'm annoyed with people attacking me based off of individual posts and going "Oh yeah, there must be a link for that to make any sense".

I'll also point out that this was also much of Setael's reasoning for attacking me when she first replaced in yesterday was that I was defending IH and that she didn't like my reasoning. So I feel skeptical about that sort of argument actually being a protown argument.

What I don't like Thok is that you seem to be saying IH is town but you have not placed your vote one someone you think is scum.
Do you intend to let IH be lynched through apathy, if you think he is town?
Also, do you think VitaminR is town?
I'm not telling you to vote IH or to vote anyone else, but I want a confirmation that you don't intend to change the way things are going, if you don't.

Mod : Please prod everyone since we are so close to deadline

I'm trying to ask questions and figure out stuff. While I don't feel people have done a good job trying to explain why IH should be the lynch, and I'm not a fan of the apathy towards that lynch, I can that an IH lynch ought to be a useful information lynch at the very least and we're at the point where an information lynch isn't a bad thing.

I think it's clear from the questions I'm asking that I'm not a fan of VitR either right now.

[Simenon]

Vote Count

IH (2)- VitaminR, Guardian
VitaminR (1)- Skruffs
Skruffs (1)- IH

IH, townie, is deadline lynched.

It is now day seven. With six alive, it's four to lynch.

[Skruffs]

Wow, Guardian, you were wrong. AGAIN.

[Guardian]

..................

...................................................................................................


WTF. Wow, fuck me. I owe this game a re-read, I guess, as much as I don't want to do so.

Wow..... That's just...

wow

.....

[TonyMoonshine]

I'm sorry. I meant to post last night, but fell asleep early. My vote would have been on Guardian or Thok, but I was still undecided. At least twice now Thok has voted Guardian early and unvoted before Guardian could be lynched. I think this has been brought up before, but I don't recall his explanation. And, don't really care at this point.

Fos: Guardian and Thok

[Skruffs]

Now Guardian lays low for a while while he 'rereads'.

Vote : VitaminR

Tony - why not VitaminR - why Guardian and THok but not VitaminR, rather?

[Thok]

So Guardian, do you have anything to say about your voting record now?

I agree with Skruffs-VitR hate also.

[Elias_the_thief]

Shit. If I had realized we were that close to deadline I would have switched over to Vit. Not so sure about Skruffs though. Guardian, I really can't believe you could have been that bent on lynching him and been wrong, although I've done similar things before.

[Guardian]

I re-read today and

vote: Tony

.

His play today has been uninspiring, and last few days he has gone for all the easy lynches, including his unexplained hammer.

I think Tony--Thok are most likely the last two, though my confidence is shaken after being wrong about IH...

Tony trying to draw me-Thok ties and Tony and Thok independently being the most scummy make me think this.

If I have time to re-read all 74 pages, then I'll do so. But I am going off of reading the ~10 page today because I had time for it and at least that's something.

[Thok]

I re-read today and

vote: Tony

.

His play today has been uninspiring, and last few days he has gone for all the easy lynches, including his unexplained hammer.

I'm curious. The person Tony has most consistently expressed interest in lynching the last two days has been you. I'd like you to explain how you feel you are the "easy lynch".

[Guardian]

That's not entirely correct......

Day 4, Tony hammered Adel. That was obviously an easy lynch.
Day 5, Tony was on me, when I missed being lynched by 1 vote.

So um, yeah, he's been going after easy lynches the past few days not including today....

[Thok]

That's not entirely correct......

Day 4, Tony hammered Adel. That was obviously an easy lynch.
Day 5, Tony was on me, when I missed being lynched by 1 vote.

So um, yeah, he's been going after easy lynches the past few days not including today....

The hammer is a worthwhile point (and essentially the only worthwhile point in your argument).

But you're completely ignoring Day 6, where Guardian was more interested in going after you than pushing IH (who is the person most likely to be seen as the easy lynch yesterday), and I don't really consider his pushing on you Day 5 a sign he was going for an easy lynch, given that he had been attacking you since like day 2.

If you were town, I would expect your reaction to IH turning up town to be "I better rethink my suspects, given that I was completely wrong about my top suspect". Instead, your analysis seems to be "Oh, I was wrong about IH, let's continue attacking the other people I've claimed are scummy even though I've been proven wrong at least twice and possibly more times."

Can we get a prod on VitaminR?

[VitaminR]

Crap. I really thought IH was scum (sorry IH!).

[Thok]

Crap. I really thought IH was scum (sorry IH!).

I'm much more interested in who you think is scum now, and why.

[VitaminR]

Well, that lynch threw me off a bit, I have to admit.

I don't think Tony is scum. My thoughts about him haven't changed. I still see and understand the case against Guardian, but disagree with it for the same reasons. I just don't see him doing that as scum. He's not that scheming.

I really don't like how both you and Elias kept pressure on me, but let the deadline hit anyway. Why didn't you vote me before the deadline? Did either of you believe in an IH lynch?

This is awfully convenient. Your fingerprints are not on the IH wagon (you can actually use it against Guardian and me) and you have a new lynch set up (Skruffs is not going to change his mind about me). You could probably even get a Guardian lynch going.

Skruffs, I'd really like you to think about the above. You're as wrong about as me as Guardian was about IH. This may be a lost cause, but I don't think you're scum, so I'm choosing to appeal to you.

[Thok]

Well, that lynch threw me off a bit, I have to admit.

I know you are a better player than this. Given that IH's was the lynch leader for several weeks, you had to have thought at least a little bit about who would be scum in both scenarios (if he came up scum or town).

I don't think Tony is scum. My thoughts about him haven't changed. I still see and understand the case against Guardian, but disagree with it for the same reasons. I just don't see him doing that as scum. He's not that scheming.

You've never really said anything about the case against Guardian. Guardian's play doesn't require him to be "scheming" at all, just to be extremely OMGUSy and to come up with reasons to vote IH whenever he feels like it.

I really don't like how both you and Elias kept pressure on me, but let the deadline hit anyway. Why didn't you vote me before the deadline? Did either of you believe in an IH lynch?

My thoughts about the IH lynch are a matter of public record. I mentioned that there was stuff I didn't like about him, and before deadline I said I would be OK with him as an info lynch, even though my thoughts based off of the behavior of town during the deadline had him leaning towards being town. I can see attacking me for my behavior yesterday, but not for not explaining my thoughts about IH yesterday.

Also knowing what we know now, if I was scum and you were town (and especially if Guardian is town), it would have been much stronger play for me to have voted you near the deadline (if IH gets lynched, I would be in much stronger position to claim credit for trying to avoid that, and even if you were lynched as town, then we'd stil have the whole Guardian going crazy about attacking IH thing set up.) Obviously, this is WIFOM, but it's worth noting.

This is awfully convenient. Your fingerprints are not on the IH wagon (you can actually use it against Guardian and me) and you have a new lynch set up (Skruffs is not going to change his mind about me). You could probably even get a Guardian lynch going.

Why are you giving scum advice about who they could be trying to lynch next? Also, I think it's clear that you can get an attack on Elias and me based off of our behavior with respect to the IH wagon, and that you are trying to do so.