Designer Mafia 2007 - Game Over, Final Scene Posted!

[Mastermind of Sin]

VC coming later today.

[mneme]

unvote
vote: Nocmen

(for witch hunting and role fishing, not to mention perpetuating the myth of the random stage).

No, not giving explanations is not

per se

scummy.

[Nocmen]

unvote
vote: Nocmen

(for witch hunting and role fishing, not to mention perpetuating the myth of the random stage).

No, not giving explanations is not

per se

scummy.

Explain where I was witch hunting and role fishing.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Fourth Vote Count of Day 1:

Thyroidectomy - (UltimaAvalon, Twomz, Bamboomancer, stark)
Nocmen - (FaerieLord, Battle Mage, somestrangeflea, mneme)

schismatized - (KaleiÐoscøpe, Thyroidectomy)
Shanba - (schismatized)
somestrangeflea - (Aimee)
KaleiÐoscøpe - (Shanba)
Battle Mage - (Sir Tornado)
Bamboomancer - (ZONEACE)

[FaerieLord]

Unvote

For now. I don't like either of these bandwagons

[Shanba]

Agreed. The Thyroid one is just silly, and I'm not sure what the Nocmen one is based on.

[Sir Tornado]

Unvote

Although I have bought the ticket to the fair, I would like to know exactly what I have bought, and what purpose it fulfills

[Thyroidectomy]

There's a lot to respond to- I'll get to that now.

[Thyroidectomy]

Everyone asking- stop fishing. All I want to say is that it will be bad for the mafia and I want them not to expect what's coming to them.

With that kind of attitude, why should anyone respond to your questions and statements?

Because I am asking them directly. I will try to make an effort to only answer questions when they are adressed to me. Why is that a bad attitude? If we all did that, the game would go much smoother, with only the accused defending themselves.

Do you have something to hide?

Not at all. If I did, I wouldn't have let you all know.

[Thyroidectomy]

I really dont see this as true... Can you elaborate?

Very surprised schis, I thought that was your thing.

On a practical level, if we are into bandwagonning methodically, saying "this is a good wagon" is SO much easier than actually repeating the reason.
Also, sometimes players are bandwagonned for reasons that aren't exactly lynch worthy, or at least where I come from. Someone being wagonned for little reason or no reason is much more likely as scum to overreact and throw a hissy fit than for a reason that has been much more elaborated on. I can't name the number of times I've seen scum go "Yeah, you lynched me, but it was for a bad reason!". Given that, we can use this to our advantage. Scum tend to react better when you don't give a reason than when you do.

Secondly, I like to choose when to give analysis and post my reasoning and when not to. I haven't found what the perfect balance is, but few do as far as I know. Basically, if I think a reason isn't as strong as it could be, then I will also vote without giving a reason. This ties in strongly with my first point.

Finally, if you want to review and read over the thread, less is more. Clarity is important in mafia. Everybody knows who I want lynched when they read my posts.

[Thyroidectomy]

I can make a quote! Quote quote quote

1. Where is the hostility in those quotes?
2. What makes that hostility scummy?

In regards to why MoS would include such a role in the game: As you've said before, MoS isn't stupid. However, this doesn't mean that every role should be self-contained ballance. He's an intelligent mod, and I would guess with near certainty that he would put in roles to ballance out those as powerful as you might have.

However, we designed them, so something so specific like that wouldn't be included.

Also, including a role just to balance out another is bad design.

[ZONEACE]

Also, including a role just to balance out another is bad design.

Isn't the point of EVERY role to balance another role.

[stark]

Everyone asking- stop fishing. All I want to say is that it will be bad for the mafia and I want them not to expect what's coming to them.

Do you have something to hide?

Not at all. If I did, I wouldn't have let you all know.

Ok comrade. So you're expecting the town to sit down, and be led around by you because of your golden tickets. This defies all logic. If you were scum with a signup role, what would you say? The exactly same thing. Your promiss means nothing.

Apparently you have something to hide, as you're not enlightening your fellow comrades.

You are being agressive without reason, comrade Thyroid. Why? Hostility with a purpose, such as pressuring a single scum can indeed serve the town. You're just biting anyone that comes your way.

It doesn't matter what we designed. MoS has more than enough powers to ballance out the roles. Zoneace said it perfectly.

[Thyroidectomy]

Not sure if you are aware stark, but you are quoting foolinc out of context. Please don't.

I'll answer your points when you correct said mistake.

[Thyroidectomy]

Too add:

I don't do the work if you don't. I answered your points. They are in post 135. Do not accuse me of things, allow me to defend myself, and then ignore the defense and procede with accusing me of things.

[Thyroidectomy]

Isn't the point of EVERY role to balance another role.

Right. Which is why making a role that deliberately balances out another role is bad design. The role should be balanced by all the other roles anyway.

[ZONEACE]

Right. Which is why making a role that deliberately balances out another role is bad design. The role should be balanced by all the other roles anyway.

So lyncher/lynchee roles are bad design??? Roles where one of your goals is to find a specific player are bad design? cause there are MANY GAMES that have these types of roles. And i wouldn't go about calling the designers of those games Bad Designers.

Do not accuse me of things, allow me to defend myself, and then ignore the defense and procede with accusing me of things.

Thats all well and good but your defense is moot because its non-existant. Trust me=/=a defense

[Thyroidectomy]

So lyncher/lynchee roles are bad design??? Roles where one of your goals is to find a specific player are bad design? cause there are MANY GAMES that have these types of roles. And i wouldn't go about calling the designers of those games Bad Designers.

Lyncher + Lynchee doesn't work. Nobody designs a role entitled "lynchee". That's too specific.

Likewise, nobody would be able to design a role specific enough to counter mine. My role did not exist while any counter would.

Do not accuse me of things, allow me to defend myself, and then ignore the defense and procede with accusing me of things.

Thats all well and good but your defense is moot because its non-existant. Trust me=/=a defense[/quote]

This is also out of context.

[stark]

Not sure if you are aware stark, but you are quoting foolinc out of context. Please don't.

I'll answer your points when you correct said mistake.

What does that mean comrade. Explain. The only post by foolinc that is remotely related is 117. And even so, what's your point?

Too add:

I don't do the work if you don't. I answered your points. They are in post 135. Do not accuse me of things, allow me to defend myself, and then ignore the defense and procede with accusing me of things.

You have no defense. You fail.

Isn't the point of EVERY role to balance another role.

Right. Which is why making a role that deliberately balances out another role is bad design. The role should be balanced by all the other roles anyway.

Plenty of games have had counter-roles. They've worked fine, comrade.

Explain what out of context means, comrade. That seems to be your favorite phrase lately.

And there doesn't need to be a specific counter role.

[Thyroidectomy]

What does that mean comrade. Explain. The only post by foolinc that is remotely related is 117. And even so, what's your point?

Foolinc's quotation had nothing to do with my Fair. It was about my attitude towards posts that answered for other people.

I firmly believe at this point you aren't reading the game.

Unvote
Vote stark

Plenty of games have had counter-roles. They've worked fine, comrade.

Is a "counter-role" reasonable for a role as specific as mine?

Out of context right now means that you are quoting something I am saying and, by leaving off a bit, changing the meaning. I'm not saying it's deliberate, but it's definately there.

I think there does need to be a specific counter role.

[Thyroidectomy]

Also, to answer the "hostility bit".

No, I have not been hostile, as I implied with my question in post 135 (which you have ignored). The only time where I was being remotely hostile I apologized shortly after.

[stark]

What does that mean comrade. Explain. The only post by foolinc that is remotely related is 117. And even so, what's your point?

Foolinc's quotation had nothing to do with my Fair. It was about my attitude towards posts that answered for other people.

I firmly believe at this point you aren't reading the game.

Unvote
Vote stark

Plenty of games have had counter-roles. They've worked fine, comrade.

Is a "counter-role" reasonable for a role as specific as mine?

Out of context right now means that you are quoting something I am saying and, by leaving off a bit, changing the meaning. I'm not saying it's deliberate, but it's definately there.

I think there does need to be a specific counter role.

It doesn't need to be specific to you, comrade tyroid. MoS could have just made a role to take away players powers. Problem solved.

I do not see a single instance of my being out of contex. Enlighten me.


In response to 135 which you seem to think I be ignoring.

From top to bottom of my post 113

1. Unwaranted aggression

2. Witch-hunting

3. Witch-hunting again.

I'm reading plenty fine.

Also, you have not addressed your non-existant defense. You claim the need to defend yourself, and then simply ignore other players

[schismatized]

Unvote Vote Schis

My role as a cult seems a bit dumb. It's a potentially swingy role that could end the game on night one. To be honest, would anybody be stupid enough to design that? Would MoS be stupid enough to put that into the game?

A "I keel you if you buy!!!!!" is also pretty silly. I doubt MoS would want his roles destroyed all in one night.

And let's face it, an alt win condition based around this is rather uncreative.

This benefits the town, I assure you. I am also town. BUYBUYBUYBUYBUY!!!!!!!!

Just clearing this up, so your vote has is still on me without any clarification as to why?

Wouldn't it have been easy to just explain yourself rather than start this whole debate on how unscummy your vote is?

vote: thyroidectemu

Just gimme some reason other than BS and I will unvote you.

[Sir Tornado]

Ok comrade. So you're expecting the town to sit down, and be led around by you because of your golden tickets. This defies all logic. If you were scum with a signup role, what would you say? The exactly same thing. Your promiss means nothing.

I agree with this point completely. Thyroid's explaination of:

Everyone asking- stop fishing. All I want to say is that it will be bad for the mafia and I want them not to expect what's coming to them.

Doesn't necessarily tell us why we should trust him. That type of assertions are alright coming from a player who is confirmed... but not really good coming from Thyroid here. You should, ideally convince the town to buy those tickets not by telling them "trust me", but by saying exactly what they do. If those tickets do hurt scum, then all you have to do is get yourself investigated on N1 by a cop, and then, if you are town, ask everyone to buy the tickets. The scum will, obviously try not to buy them, which is how they can be caught.

But first, we need to know what your tickets do.

[Nocmen]

meep, meep meep meep meep. meep: meep, meep, meep meep; meep meep meep meep meep meep?

meep meep.

meep meep meep meep, meep meep meep, meep.