Mini 1800 - Game Over

[JohnnyFarrar]

Grammar and phone posting don't mix

[qubixes]

Am I a lurker?

How would you qualify it yourself? Inactive/busy? You seem to be reading the thread at least.

[MechaGoomba]

should not give town results [...] has very little protown reason to state their results.

I'd debate that. A Neapolitan is different from a Vanilla Cop in that they get "Vanilla Townie" or "Not Vanilla Townie" instead of just "Vanilla" or "Not Vanilla". In other words, any Vanilla Townie targeted by a Neapolitan can be confirmed as 100% town. That would be extremely valuable during LYLO, and, as long as he doesn't reveal any "Not Vanilla Townie" results unless they claim vanilla, he'll only be making things harder for scum by making them choose between PR hunting and eliminating conftown.

Can't quote it on phone but it's number 4 in post #2

Ah, sorry. Thanks for pointing that out.

I can think of a couple ways this went down

"1) Karnos and Masquerade are scum.
2) Karnos and Masquerade are scum.
3) Karnos and Masquerade are scum."

Why do people think putting numbers on things makes them become correct?

So, every time someone claims a PR, we're going to build a wagon on someone else? Sounds like a great way to out some PR's and get a VT lynched.

You appear to be missing the part where if there was another Neapolitan or even a cop of some sort, karnos would be instalynched.
Do you seriously think that mafia!karnos just happened to guess that this was a setup with no cops at all?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Am I a lurker?

How would you qualify it yourself? Inactive/busy? You seem to be reading the thread at least.

All these labels man. I'm just here, poorly playing mafia.

I don't think I'm a lurker lynch, though. If you wanna say voting me for not providing content is stupid, you should just say that. I very well might say it if this wagon goes anywhere, but trying to fit this into the mold of some common situation isn't going to convince anyone of anything.

[qubixes]

So, every time someone claims a PR, we're going to build a wagon on someone else? Sounds like a great way to out some PR's and get a VT lynched.

You appear to be missing the part where if there was another Neapolitan or even a cop of some sort, karnos would be instalynched.
Do you seriously think that mafia!karnos just happened to guess that this was a setup with no cops at all?

A) Not everyone has checked in yet.
B) Not everyone would counterclaim.
C) Yes, fake claiming some kind of cop when you're scum seems not a bad play, outing the cop when you're on the chopping block seems like a fair trade. Day talk makes this more likely. Also scum might have more information (composition of the team) that makes cop less likely.
D) Karnos can be a scum neapolitan.

[MechaGoomba]

We've got three days to deadline and your vote is sitting on an unCCed claimed cop. All of the things you're saying are technically true and none of them are enough to justify that.

[qubixes]

Am I a lurker?

How would you qualify it yourself? Inactive/busy? You seem to be reading the thread at least.

All these labels man. I'm just here, poorly playing mafia.

I don't think I'm a lurker lynch, though. If you wanna say voting me for not providing content is stupid, you should just say that. I very well might say it if this wagon goes anywhere, but trying to fit this into the mold of some common situation isn't going to convince anyone of anything.

Sure. What I wanted to say is that it feels like the "easy" wagon, without much substance. On the other hand, I don't have really much grasp on your alignment either way. We'll see where it goes I guess.

[qubixes]

We've got three days to deadline and your vote is sitting on an unCCed claimed cop. All of the things you're saying are technically true and none of them are enough to justify that.

I am voting whoever I think is the most likely to flip scum. Problem?

[Masquerade]

This is a self-preservation claim (NAI) If Karnos is scum that wants to lure out a town-pr he could have claimed cop, or (and imo more likely) try and lure out the doc.
If I didn't just finish that game with Karnos (where he was scum and there were masons) I would think he was scum trying to get out pr's.
So I for now believe Karnos is town unless modconfirmed evidence or a believable cc counters that.
And I think that's the best way to handle a claim from someone at L-1, unless it's lylo/mylo.
Also, in another game of mine not too long ago I was wagoned and I was a JK, which I obv claimed, and there was 1 guy that did not unvote, he would not believe I was JK. Mind you, this was an open setup (Sharing is Caring). He flipped scum.
We're not lynching Karnos today without a cc, I'd rather not see anyone cc Karnos Day 1 but on the other hand, I don't want to bet this game on pr's. Only 3 days left in the phase if I read that correctly.

I'm not sure how I feel about Johnny's wagon, votes piled on quickly after mine. Starting to worry I just started a cc for scum :/ so ye, re-evaluate it is.

[Masquerade]

Ye no I'm not worried. Karnos is town.

VOTE: Qubixes
See previous post^

[Wingback]

What's the problem with the votes on the Johnny wagon? Persivul's analysis on Johnny is accurate as is Mechagoomba's elaboration of it. I gave my reasons why I'm scumreading Johnny at least twice now and said I'd vote for him so that shouldn't have been a surprise.

If we're going to dismantle a wagon purely because it formed quickly, how are we ever going to lynch anyone?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Wingdings why did you wait to vote me?

[Wingback]

Reading the thread will answer that question. You should get on with it.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I'm at work baby girl answer the question.

[Wingback]

Well then, after work, carve out some time to go through the thread and post your thoughts. You couldn't be bothered to read the game for around five days now and you can't have been working 24/7. If you were so busy that you can't find any time at all, you shouldn't have replaced into the game.

I'm not going to hold your hand and spoonfeed you while you ask questions that have already been answered or are obvious if you glance through someone's ISO to see their progression of reads.

[Saru]

Well then, after work, carve out some time to go through the thread and post your thoughts. You couldn't be bothered to read the game for around five days now and you can't have been working 24/7. If you were so busy that you can't find any time at all, you shouldn't have replaced into the game.

This. So much.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Alright high and mighty, be obtuse because that sure is helpful to town. Here's my question again, you can read it slow.

You say in 653 that you don't want to vote Karnos. You say you want to vote me. Then you vote me.

20 fucking posts later.

Why did you wait?

P-Edit: tbf I'm more interested in the current game state than pages 10-17, what are you guys hoping I find?

[Masquerade]

What's the problem with the votes on the Johnny wagon? Persivul's analysis on Johnny is accurate as is Mechagoomba's elaboration of it. I gave my reasons why I'm scumreading Johnny at least twice now and said I'd vote for him so that shouldn't have been a surprise.

If we're going to dismantle a wagon purely because it formed quickly, how are we ever going to lynch anyone?

I'm not trying to dismantle the wagon on Johnny. Though I started it because he had disappeared which made it look to me like he had hoped Karnos would get lynched.
I think it's ironic he started to respond more since he got wagoned. Then I got good reason to scumread Qubixes and changed my vote because I also wanted to see what Johnny would do. He completely ignored it.. I don't know, I just get this strong feeling with him that he doesn't really care that much. So time to get to know Johnny a little better (look at his more recent games) He's more involved as town. I found 2 scumgames (I didn't go back too far, people change) and in one he died too soon but the other one is the game his playstyle rn resembles most for me.

@Johnny: You didn't seem too interested in the gamestate when Karnos was still being wagoned. You also haven't said anything about Karnos' claim. You got interested when you started getting votes. Or am I wrong?

VOTE: Johnny

[JohnnyFarrar]

I mean honestly the reason I wasn't talking when Karnos was the wagon is because I was fine with him getting lynched. I wasn't going to push it because I wasn't caught up, but I didn't really have a problem with it either. The reason I started posting more is actually because he claimed. I don't think we should lynch him today. Pretty sure I've said as much. I want to say I believe him for now because that's a weird claim to pull out of thin air, but I don't know him or his play well enough to full on townread him just yet.

Which of my games did you look at out of curiosity?

[Wingback]

Alright high and mighty, be obtuse because that sure is helpful to town. Here's my question again, you can read it slow.

You say in 653 that you don't want to vote Karnos. You say you want to vote me. Then you vote me.

20 fucking posts later.

Why did you wait?

Okay, I read it really, really slowly as can be seen here but still couldn't understand it. Can you say it a bit more slowly. With feeling this time?

[qubixes]

This is a self-preservation claim (NAI) If Karnos is scum that wants to lure out a town-pr he could have claimed cop, or (and imo more likely) try and lure out the doc.
If I didn't just finish that game with Karnos (where he was scum and there were masons) I would think he was scum trying to get out pr's.
So I for now believe Karnos is town unless modconfirmed evidence or a believable cc counters that.
And I think that's the best way to handle a claim from someone at L-1, unless it's lylo/mylo.
Also, in another game of mine not too long ago I was wagoned and I was a JK, which I obv claimed, and there was 1 guy that did not unvote, he would not believe I was JK. Mind you, this was an open setup (Sharing is Caring). He flipped scum.
We're not lynching Karnos today without a cc, I'd rather not see anyone cc Karnos Day 1 but on the other hand, I don't want to bet this game on pr's. Only 3 days left in the phase if I read that correctly.

I'm not sure how I feel about Johnny's wagon, votes piled on quickly after mine. Starting to worry I just started a cc for scum :/ so ye, re-evaluate it is.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. My biggest problem here is imo not whether Karnos is Neapolitan or not. It is whether he is town or scum aligned. I don't understand, is there some hidden ratio here that makes Neapolitan >80% town or something? Because I remember a discussion somewhere about (I think) the exact role, and how useful it is for scum. Could even be inspiration for the setup even, I guess. Also, you don't really get caught with it? So how do we determine which alignment Karnos is later on?

So what is the plan then if you let Karnos live? Let him claim VT's, not claim Role/Mafia. Then lynch him in LyLo? It feels like the benefit of this is rather marginal, especially compared to lynching scum day 1. Please explain me your plan in case Karnos is scum/Neapolitan.

[Masquerade]

What makes you think he'll live that long?

[Masquerade]

Lol I'm an idiot.

[qubixes]

Alright high and mighty, be obtuse because that sure is helpful to town. Here's my question again, you can read it slow.

You say in 653 that you don't want to vote Karnos. You say you want to vote me. Then you vote me.

20 fucking posts later.

Why did you wait?

Okay, I read it really, really slowly as can be seen here but still couldn't understand it. Can you say it a bit more slowly. With feeling this time?

I think it is a fair question. Why not answer it?

[Wingback]

Alright high and mighty, be obtuse because that sure is helpful to town. Here's my question again, you can read it slow.

You say in 653 that you don't want to vote Karnos. You say you want to vote me. Then you vote me.

20 fucking posts later.

Why did you wait?

Okay, I read it really, really slowly as can be seen here but still couldn't understand it. Can you say it a bit more slowly. With feeling this time?

I think it is a fair question. Why not answer it?

Because the answer is obvious and boring. I wanted to see if he'd ISO me and figure it out even if he doesn't want to read the whole thread. If you actually look at the post he's referring to, and where my vote was at that time, it'd be obvious to you as well.