New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[MagnaofIllusion]

So clearly we are in multiball. With three VT flips no chance of a PGO or some other odd circumstance that could justify a single anti-Town team. Which leads to …

Shotty as scum –

Well looks like some vigs cleared a few things up for us.

Remember when Shotty Day 1 was calling it multiball? Let me refresh your memory.

185 (ok, this is page 4 which in hindsight screams inside info subconscious slip), 1051 –

Yet right out of the gate Day 2 he’s trying to suggest multiple Vigs are responsible for the extra kills. Dollars to donuts that whichever “Non Mafia” shot he is trying to pass off as a Vig had him or his scum team in their end of Day reads.

He’s also dropped both of my meta-read tells for scum Shotty. I’m not elaborating at this point but can if it really becomes necessary.

Magma had a bad connection in the PT but for someone who claimed he wanted to vet me to see if we could make something out of being neighbors he did not even ask me one question, he also had TBG as strong scum and he did not reply when I asked him why he thought so given that would imply TBG WKd his CW (could still be because of the connection but I still want an answer).

Yeah … this is bad. The two posts I made in the QT took almost a full hour due to my connection. Which clearly I pointed out in the thread. Why exactly did you expect an in-depth questioning when I couldn’t even get the ISO feature to work?

That said – let’s talk about Brawl and Persival re: a Counterwagon – why do you not think it possible for scum to call a wagon not on themselves bad again? Because I think someone as experienced as you shouldn’t be so rigid in assessing that as not a possibility. By the time Brawl commented on Pers (1734) clearly Pers was the dominant wagon. And multiple people had been calling down the Brawl wagon pretty vigorously for awhile. Very little change there was going to be enough momentum to lynch Brawl Day 1. Perfect time for scumBrawl to look for Town credit by calling the Pers wagon bad.

Glad you state that ETL was a scum shot. Probably has to do with 2137, huh?

VOTE: Copper

Also I don’t think Matt is scum. Much of it was dependant on Pers flipping scum which didn’t happen.

[drmyshottyizsik]

MoI, I'm just town. Multiball just seemed obvious with the way people were playing. Also if I were scum, how would I know it was multiball day one?

[Shaziro]

VOTE: cytheflyguy

I think this is scum. Looked through his ISO and I can't get a read that says town. And that vote seems more opportunistic than a genuine vote.

Here's an opportunistic vote. And whoa do I know opportunistic votes.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kop

Still happy to vote zakk if we can. But since it's going nowhere, here's another idea. This reads very much like "shit who can I find who is a plausible vote, but not a current bandwagon, and isn't likely to come back at me." Even the way it is worded "I can't get a read that says town" is equivocal as whoa. It looks vaguely like coaching, but I don't think it is. I think just kop is scum.

Are you thinking that Kop was trying to pull people off of Zakk's wagon because they're town? I just woke up so I'm trying to take all this stuff in.


Also, Shotty, somebody already said that if you are on a very small scum team, you are likely to assume it is multiball. That is how you would "know", assumedly.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ircher is still Town. Posts like 2356 show why.

The hypothesis being: it's unnatural so maybe you didn't get to coordinate the read switch like the rest of your team cause you were V/LA.

Scum still forgetting that he shouldn’t know that daytalk exists … which would be a requirement of this sort of coordination. Especially since he knows the Neighborhood only has nighttalk.

But given he specifically excluded himself from 2518 let’s look at his vote history Day 1 in conjunction with his ‘analysis’ –

Ircher – Bad Town per his analysis
Nos -
Seth – oops Kop is nowhere to be found in his “analysis”
Ircher - Bad Town per his analysis
Brawl - Town
Magna
Anen – “town getting pushed by scum”
Brawl - Town
Pers - Town
Kill – Town

So all but two of his own votes are all on Town, bad Town, or players with no analysis. And all the “damning” votes I made are votes he made also.

Scum. Lynch it.

*checks in*
so zakk and titus and copper all still breathing?
ok.
*checks out*

Notice that Copper is included in this list. Then ISO him and find his votes or pushes for Copper. Hint – you will be looking for a long, long time.

@shaz, eh I've seen shotty so much worse. Other than the lingering thought that maybe we're being played with the whole shotty/irch double-tunneling thing, I don't really see too much scum here lately.

Umm given Inspirational Mafia I am having some serious trouble with this statement …

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, I'm just town. Multiball just seemed obvious with the way people were playing. Also if I were scum, how would I know it was multiball day one?

No, you aren't. If people insist I'll link to the Inspirational Mafia tells I used to nail you there and the parallels here.

And LOL at your "I would not know it is multiball as scum". Scum are in the best position to know that early day 1 since they know that either

A. Their scum-team is undersized for the set-up, or
B. They are a Serial Killer

[Ircher]

@Magna
What's your opinion of Seth/Kop?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Titus is on point at 2546 especially given Shotty said “I’ll vote whichever wagon is bigger”.

Copper’s 2578 is classic scum play. He’s talked about scum taking advantage of Titus and yet he was positioned on Lowell in that exact manner – happy to call Lowell Town for voting me (which clearly ignores that we are in a Multiball environment) but the second Lowell looks halfway askance at Copper we get that post.

I find the strength of the tunnel genuine. Once you flip, if you are town, how is shotty planning to stay alive to win? Do you think you are worth a trade?

Note the defense of Shotty and note that Shotty’s Ircher scum read magically disappeared overnight until he had to OMGUS at 2532. As if, perhaps, they were prompted in the QT to drop it since it was drawing too much attention.

Also, is the Zakk wagon just dying? If so, I don't want to push Nos just yet, but I don't know that PM is super scummy either. Shotty might be the best target in my mind. Thoughts?

Shotty is a very good wagon.

Magna, yeah if there are two scum teams I could see one from each being in the neighborhood. However, it was Day 1 so I was ignoring that possibility in order to vote the scummiest person possible (I should add that I think we obviously failed at that). Looking at last night's kills, I don't suspect multiple scum teams yet. It's possible of course, but my guess is scum killed ETL and the other two kills were a vig and a SK trying to look like a vig. It's entirely possible that killthestory or Brawl was one scum team trying to kill the other but until we get a scum flip with some kind of faction name or something, I'll work with the assumption that we only have one scum team to deal with. Because of that, I'm not even close to assuming more than one scum in the neighborhood. I'm currently thinking 0-1

My question here Egg – why would you not consider a Serial Killer as being a Neighborhood possibility?

Page 77:
Magna, you said you don't buy drmy's vote on me as a reaction test and conclude that he made the vote as scum. So I have to ask. If he's scum, what was the purpose of him voting me?

Frankly I don’t know. Shotty’s playing to his scum meta solidly and the lack of any actual Town reasoning to support why It was actually a reaction test is what leads me to my conclusion.

[Aneninen]

For the record,

Mod

, I've been in the prod zone.

To tell the truth, I went on with my work so well that I simply didn't want to take a brake for playing. Sorry, everyone!

Tomorrow I'll post.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Magna
What's your opinion of Seth/Kop?

Seth was a troll. His repeated bans for in-game behavior established that in my mind. Impossible to read.

Kop -His content since replacing in has been poor. And the latest round of posts with that terrible vote I can see coming from scum. He's not a top read for me. I'd probably need to re-ISO them (well, more Kop given my stance on Seth) before committing away from Copper / Shotty.

[Kop]

I've not really given the game full attention.
But I need a read back. Will do it tomorrow.

[Shaziro]

Magna, I asked you a question, need it repeated?

[Ircher]

@Magna -- Alright


My top scumreads are Shotty (Prob biased, but quite obvious why), Kop/Seth (I outlined why, and while Seth may have been a troll, Kop wasn't much better, so my read stands), and Copper (I'm inclined to townread Magna, Liger is ok, it would be strange imo if there wasn't a scum in the neighborhood, but that's setup WIFOM, and the "roleplay" between Seth/Copper felt more SvS than anything else -- Too artificial and forced)

I'll compromise lynch Zakk (not my top read, but I'm not impressed there either. I am also tbh influenced by Titus's read here).

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, I asked you a question, need it repeated?

Either that or link me to it. I don't see anything in your ISO with Magna or MoI in it that looks like a question at first glance ...

[Shaziro]

Wow. Want to know how tired I am? I asked Lowell a question and thought I was quoting you. I may as well ask you too though, do you think a Zakk/Shotty team is likely?

[copper223]

Yeah … this is bad. The two posts I made in the QT took almost a full hour due to my connection. Which clearly I pointed out in the thread. Why exactly did you expect an in-depth questioning when I couldn’t even get the ISO feature to work?

That said – let’s talk about Brawl and Persival re: a Counterwagon – why do you not think it possible for scum to call a wagon not on themselves bad again? Because I think someone as experienced as you shouldn’t be so rigid in assessing that as not a possibility. By the time Brawl commented on Pers (1734) clearly Pers was the dominant wagon. And multiple people had been calling down the Brawl wagon pretty vigorously for awhile. Very little change there was going to be enough momentum to lynch Brawl Day 1. Perfect time for scumBrawl to look for Town credit by calling the Pers wagon bad.

Glad you state that ETL was a scum shot. Probably has to do with 2137, huh?

Is it possible that looking out of my window I will see a flying unicorn? Yes, is it likely, no. Your reads did not take into consideration the flip on Persi and that's what I expect "an experienced player" to do.

TBG was running the serious risk of getting lynched, at that point all the town-cred in the world is not going to do you any good after your flip is shown and there is scum written on it, so deciding to cock-block the alternative wagon is an unlikely move and for you to have that read you should have presumably some reason as to why he went that route, but you apparently did not even consider it worth thinking about.

I also already explained the ETL read in the PT, Persivul was certain ETL would not misread him like she did, and when I told her I'd policy her for being bad she replied that I was in no position to evaluate her play (if she was being literal there it might have meant she knew I was town and I didn't know what I was talking about since I was judging her town game when she was tooling me as scum); that line of thought shows the opposite of what you did by the way, i.e. try and factor in the new information coming from the flop (cause you know, we have different PM's after all).

I also said you had connection problems and made it clear that shouldn't be held against you, you failing to engage us in conversation other than replying to what we asked of you however is still scummy, particularly when you claimed to be vetting the PT yesterday, as it only required you to be able to post (which you demonstrably were able to).

[copper223]

Ircher – Bad Town per his analysis
Nos -
Seth – oops Kop is nowhere to be found in his “analysis”
Ircher - Bad Town per his analysis
Brawl - Town
Magna
Anen – “town getting pushed by scum”
Brawl - Town
Pers - Town
Kill – Town

It's not even funny how crappy the comparison is, you are even putting blanks instead of scum on the players I am scum reading , are you trying to redefine the definition of misrep? You on the other hand have only voted confirmed town or members of the PT that aren't yourself (all of whom I am fairly certain are also town).

[MagnaofIllusion]

Wow. Want to know how tired I am? I asked Lowell a question and thought I was quoting you. I may as well ask you too though, do you think a Zakk/Shotty team is likely?

Um ... I don't think so? Their interactions don't read as partners to me. Too much back and forth in thread.

Certainly possible they could be opposing scum. I have a solid scum read on Shotty. Zakk is such a jittery jitterbug that I'm going to say I have a hard time reading his spamming.

I should probably look at him more in depth.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's not even funny how crappy the comparison is, you are even putting blanks instead of scum on the players I am scum reading , are you trying to redefine the definition of misrep? You on the other hand have only voted confirmed town or members of the PT that aren't yourself (all of whom I am fairly certain are also town).

Lol indeed. You've made every claimed scummy vote yourself that are supposedly damning. Yet you are Town for spamming your vote on more of your own Town reads.

Doesn't compute.

The blanks are of course your claimed scum-reads. As you are mine. Funny how you try to dodge that implication in your response. Also funny is you trying to assert my IAI RVS is scummy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

My top scumreads are Shotty (Prob biased, but quite obvious why), Kop/Seth (I outlined why, and while Seth may have been a troll, Kop wasn't much better, so my read stands), and Copper (I'm inclined to townread Magna, Liger is ok, it would be strange imo if there wasn't a scum in the neighborhood, but that's setup WIFOM, and the "roleplay" between Seth/Copper felt more SvS than anything else -- Too artificial and forced)

Our reads are pretty well aligned. I'll make you a deal. I'll revisit Kop / Seth and if I don't see any reason to object I'll align my vote with yours with the goal of making sure whatever the largest wagon on our scum suspects (Copper / Shotty / Kop) has both our votes.

Make sense to you?

[Ircher]

Yes.

[zakk]

VOTE: cytheflyguy

I think this is scum. Looked through his ISO and I can't get a read that says town. And that vote seems more opportunistic than a genuine vote.

Here's an opportunistic vote. And whoa do I know opportunistic votes.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kop

Still happy to vote zakk if we can. But since it's going nowhere, here's another idea. This reads very much like "shit who can I find who is a plausible vote, but not a current bandwagon, and isn't likely to come back at me." Even the way it is worded "I can't get a read that says town" is equivocal as whoa. It looks vaguely like coaching, but I don't think it is. I think just kop is scum.

Are you thinking that Kop was trying to pull people off of Zakk's wagon because they're town? I just woke up so I'm trying to take all this stuff in.

Also, Shotty,

somebody

already said that if you are on a

very small

scum team, you are

likely

to

assume

it is multiball. That is how you would

"know"

,

assumedly

.

something else about this wording in the purple feel off to anyone else? see bolded

it's like

Hey Guys I'm Not Scum But Somebody Somewhere Who Actually Is Scum Might Think That Hehe But Not Me Really For Serious Tho

[zakk]

heur didn't particularly ping me as either scum or town (super hard to read, had multiple games with him and can't discern between town-heur and scum-heur even though i've seen games on both sides)

but Shaziro woooooo boy i'm feelin it.

titus + shaziro need dead.

[Shaziro]

...but that is something that somebody else actually said though. I think a few people have said it, in fact. I answered a question, and to say that means I'm trying to call...whoever said that scum would assume it's multiball if they are on a small team, I guess? Trying to call them scum? I'm not getting the leap there honestly.

[zakk]

it's not what you said

it's how you said it.

[zakk]

and you responding like you did isn't actually doing you favors, it's making you look worse.

guess who immediately is like "ahhh shit someone thinks i'm scummy let me do a real quick analysis of why they think im scummy and respond to them"





thats right

scum does that