Mini 458 - Game over!

[Numenorean7]

Just my luck: first mini game I sign up for, I come up against a Scummie-worthy performance by MoS, who was then resurrected after we NKed him. I still don't like his playstyle much, but I can't say anything against his results. Wow.

I would love to hear some constructive criticism-

QFT.

MoS

: How much of your success was just luck, or were we really that obvious?

[pickemgenius]

I was trying to get the scum to keep killing me, that's why I said I only had one self-protect, but the scum didn't buy it.

That last post by pickem was definetely uncalled for. It might've made more sense if he were own...oh well.

WAIT...

YOU WERE A SELF PROTECTING DOC WHENEVER YOU WANTED???

AWESOME!

[Mastermind of Sin]

btw- ABR basically threw 471, all three mafia survived. It was luck that Pickem and I happened to be scum in this game, and ABR is willing to type more words than many of us.

~~~

Good win town, especially MOS. I love how I was criticized day 1 for ascribing god-like attributes to you. You have them.

awww. That makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside! But seriously, it was *which* attributes you were ascribing to me. I pretty much proved my Cassandra-ness by not getting you lynched D1.

I would love to hear some constructive criticism-

Mos totally called out pickem and I on day one, and I was a little freaked. I decided to try really really hard to get MOS lynched on day one, even though that would probably lead to my lynch on day two. I wanted him dead.

Don't forget Num7! =P You were soooo linked.

I really wasn't happy with MoS replacing back in after all of the trouble I went through to kill him, but I felt that since the scum did not object to him being in the game someone else (who was less scummy than me) would think he was scum because he was allowed to replace in.

Yea, I feel kinda sorry about that. I figured you guys *would* object if there was a problem.

I would not have killed NabNab or Tar. I would've wasted another NK on Kate and killed MoS, again.

Same here. I didn't get those kills. NabNab I could see, but not Tar. Tar was a top suspect, and then the scum wittled down the suspects for us. I was confused. The only thing I could think of was that the scum were hoping to make it look like I had replaced into a scum role, and they killed Tar because he said he didn't trust me. Iunno.

Just my luck: first mini game I sign up for, I come up against a Scummie-worthy performance by MoS, who was then resurrected after we NKed him. I still don't like his playstyle much, but I can't say anything against his results. Wow.

Well, to be fair, I was *testing* a new

ish

playstyle. Basically, every time I started focusing on someone, I would step back after making a deep attack and think about 3 things:

1) Is the person I'm attacking likely to have made such a mistake/scumtell as town? (ie are they a VI, is this their playstyle, etc)
2) Who is jumping on these wagons after me?
And most importantly:
3) Who have I not been looking at or focusing on, and what have they done? That's how I picked up on Adel, and that's how I picked up on Pickem. Picking up Num7 was tangential to the Adel case. I can't even remember which one of them I became suspicious of first.

I would love to hear some constructive criticism-

QFT.

MoS

: How much of your success was just luck, or were we really that obvious?

I don't really attribute any of it to luck. I was onto pickem D1, then I found the connection between you two. It wasn't an end-all case, but then your subsequent reactions,

especially

Adel's 180 attack on me, pretty much sealed it for me. Picking back up on pickem was harder, but I just had to think about it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

THIS WAS MY 100th COMPLETED GAME ON MAFIASCUM!!!!! WHOOO!!!!

I finally got it right after 100 tries.

[pickemgenius]

ABR WANTED Th DEAD.

I WOULD GO WITH THAT PLAN.

MOS, TAR, Th WANT ME DEAD

KATE IS I DUNNO WHERE.

NK'ING TAR MEANS (OR I HOPED a 2-2 STANDOFF with me and ThAdmiral)

[Mastermind of Sin]

Why not kill me? You get Tar/Th vs You/ABR, with Kate on the fence and me out of the way. I don't mean to seem arrogant or anything, but I would bet that Kate was more willing to listen to me than Tar.

[pickemgenius]

Why not kill me? You get Tar/Th vs You/ABR, with Kate on the fence and me out of the way. I don't mean to seem arrogant or anything, but I would bet that Kate was more willing to listen to me than Tar.

There's one thing with that problem.

I DIDNT KNOW WE HAD A SELF PROTECTING DOC!

I pretty much just figured you were getting doc protection every night(kate also said she protected you that one night), so why waste a potential kill?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Then why didn't you kill Kate like 2 days ago instead of NabNab?

[Tarhalindur]

Why not kill me? You get Tar/Th vs You/ABR, with Kate on the fence and me out of the way. I don't mean to seem arrogant or anything, but I would bet that Kate was more willing to listen to me than Tar.

Pickem was probably facing a majority of players voting for him tomorrow (any 3 out of {MoS, Tar, ABR, thAdmiral}) no matter who he killed, since his actions at the end of Day 4 guaranteed that I would go after him on Day 5 (even before then, my preferred scum/lynch order was Crub, pockem, thAdmiral, but the way in which he completely changed his tune to hammer Crub sealed the deal).

Pockem's best play would probably have been to try to kill either you or ABR, then try to convince thAdmiral and Kate to vote me off the next day, then try to kill you and go after thAdmiral at endgame.

Finally - Per, I think that the optimal way to compensate for letting Kate self-protect would have been to inform the scum of this ability (something along the lines of "just so you know, the doc can self-protect). That way, the scum get a chance to work around the unusually powerful doc.

[Mastermind of Sin]

By the way guys, we did pretty well. This may have been a long game page-wise, but we finish in 4 1/2 months! Good job everyone. In fact, this game posted over half a page

per day

, on average. That's ridiculously good. That's the kind of activity every game needs.

[Adel]

agreed, I felt the content to noise ratio was incredible compared to other games I've played.

Thanks for the feedback MoS. I thought long and hard before my attack on you, and I really was trying to get a lynch. I usually consider it to be very poor form to go after the most senior/accomplished player, but you seemed far too dangerous. Hindsight being 20-20, I see that decision was a mistake. Thanks for playing with us.

Redo? Same mod, same players, different setup, different role and alignment assignments- I think it would be another good game- assuming that ABR really is done auto-lynching me. It has been like four games now.

[Adel]

oh, and I don't think telling the scum that the doc could self protect would be a good idea.

Assuming that Num7 replaced in

after

Per noticed that the doc could self-protect for the entire game, I would've given Num7 a single Superkill that goes through doc protection.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I would have just told Kate she could only self-protect once and left it at that. As it was, though, the doc only affected one kill. The scum never tried to kill her again, because they thought she was protecting me instead of self-protecting, which she might've done anyway if she didn't have a self-protect. So I don't think it really unbalanced anything other than the one self-protect that actually worked.

[Per]

Oh, I have some more. Because Num7 was a replacement as scum, I allowed the scum to communicate trough a total of 3 daytime PM's during D1. So, here's what they said to each other:

This message was sent to Numenorean7, pickemgenius, and Per in identical form.

Numenorean7 is replacing DanMonkey.

You and your buddies can communicate during Day 1. You may send each other 3 PM's (not 3 each, 3 in total), and please forward them to me too.

Regards,
Per

This isn't clear at all to me. We can each send 1 on average? So if pickemgenuis sends Numenorean7 three messages, how am I supposed to know that I can't send any?

Well, you can send one message to your 2 buddies and it will only count as one message.

Subtle tells I just thought of:

we don't know how many mafia there are, and we don't know how many factions there are!

so don;t say something like "I think yo are scum, dylan, so who are your 2 scum buddies" MoS will nail you if you do.


Numenorean7: welcome to the team. Awesome posts in the thread to far, I think we'll do great. Neither pickmegenius or myself are Godfathers or roleblockers. We don't know if you are or not. We talked about breadcrumbing for a fake-claim later or or faking a scumfight, but decided that we are both too inexperienced to pull either off. You may be able to get away with breadcrumbing, but make sure it is really subtle, or MOS will catch it. letters + 3 may work. so instead of dropping combos like "(c)hange (o)our (p)erspective" into several posts, you could drop "(f)ace (r)eality (s)cum". Fake-claiming is a tricky business, so be sure you know what you are doing if you choose to.

I don't think J-man or Dylan are power roles, and I don't think I can get away with cheering on many more bandwagons fishing for power roles without MOS getting suspicious.

I really really really think MOS is a power role or an SK. A player of his renown usually walks the fine line of looking too scummy for the scum to
both NKing but town enough not to get lynched. A player known for good play often gets targeted by the cop and for an NK, so I think he is trying to be an obvious pro-town player to draw the doc protection with outing his role.

I think it is important that we flush a power role so that player will draw the doc portection and we can kill MOS night One.

curiouskarmadog is a decent guess for being the power role, but I don't know how much traction we can get on that one.

It is dangerous for all three of us to be active players. I really am going camping this weekend, so at least I will be out of it for three days.

pickmegenius: MOS is awesome, isn't he? I don't know how he can be so confident that you are scum, I think he is bluffing. He is great, we need for him to die, for real, and there is no way in hell we can get him lynched. I know you are going on vacation, so that gives you an out for not posting for a while.

If the day drags on too long I will post a graphic showing patterns in voting and FOSing. If you can, try to make sure that we Fos or vote for each other, when possible, without encouraging a bandwagon. I would prefer it if my graphic could go along with the theory that scum are likely to cast the #2 or #3 vote on wagons. Try to keep track of how many times each player has cast a #2 or #3 vote, and keep your total with the average of all players.
Of course, make sure votes and FOS's have realistic explainations. You don't have to provide them immediately "I was just looking for a reaction" probably isn't a good enough of a reason.

here are some earlier exchanges we had:

Probably my last post to you, wondering if you have any more thoughts or ideas on how this should be played.




I'm playing like a townie basically.

I'm playing terse and i'm going to let people basically metagame me.

This game will be a good one for us.

Don't be obvious, don't be dumb, and just go with the flow.
If i'm dumb, bus me, don't just vote me, bring up every reason possible to use in your case against me.

We need to also worry about SK's, and vigs that kill for the town.

We need to watch out for them aswell.


And for NK's we need to come to a conclusion as a group, so don't send any choices in without the others consent.


Also if any of us are gone for the night stages then the other two can come to a conclusion.

This is my second time as scum. In order to be consistent I will have to be one of the most active players in this game. I can pull that off.

Late in day 1 I will do a very deep & very detailed vote analysis concluding that scum will cast more #2 votes than other players. So make sure your number of #2 votes is "average" with the rest of the group, which will probably be 3 or 4.

I'll bully other players in thread to post more, including you guys. Nothing personal- it is just my play style. I'll also work publically in thread to put off a lynch vote for as long as possible- again it is just my play-style.

Here are my thoughts on playing scum- spitting out ideas brainstorm style:

Dropping breadcrumbs for a fake roleclaim, like how"Currently our progress in this game is not meeting my expectations" has C-O-P as the first three letters, is something I can not do. One of you might want to though, and it would be cool if the other one of you comes along four or five pages later and notices it. I am not good enough to be involved in such a clever play. Also, I cannot fake a scum fight. I am still too new at this.

One simple rule should be all we need: don't cast one of the last two votes on fellow scum on day 1.

Don't lurk. Remember, the vote on day 1 is pretty much random. Lie to yourself: you are not mafia. Really try to figure out who the 3 members of the mafia are from information in thread. if one of us is stupid enough to act scummy react just as you normally would.

By being an active pro-town players we will be considered town. So post every little tell from every player you see in any post, but do not make mountains out of molehill- just try to be a news service. Try to present analysis that is as objective as possible.

Be kind and nice to other players in thread, forgiving and understanding. The subliminal impact of good deeds is the perception of being a good person: not scum. I think this works on a subconscious level unless the player is actively fighting it.

Hit "preview" and review your post looking for dumb mistakes. Take a minute to decide if you really want to post what you just wrote. Don't be afraid of deleting a post you just wrote.

Go to your profile page (the blue link at the top of the page) and the second option under preferences is "Hide your online status:" select yes. If you need to lurk ("We're going camping for three days starting this Friday"), this will keep people from seeing that you are online. If you have to lurk, keep your posting activity equal to the other games you are playing in.

Be sure your posts have content, try to be insightful. Try really really hard in thread to figure out who the scum is.

I think the rule of thumb could be not to cast the #2, #6, or #7 vote on each other. Since the vote on day 1 is basically random, that alone should be enough to shift the odds in our favor. And if crappy play by one of us or superior play by one of them makes a scum-lynch happen anyway, it would really help for the survivors to have voted for the lynch. So don't hesitate to cast the #1, #3, #4, or #5 vote if that is what you would normally do if you were playing town.

Final words: these day-time PMs are precious, so use them sparingly. I would rather 1 go unused than to not have one if we really need it.

This is the second legal daytime PM among the Mafia in Day 1 of Mini 458. Identical copies sent to Adel, Per, and pickemgenius.

@Pickem

I know pushing bandwagons without actually voting them is appealing, but please stop. In fact, stop doing anything that could be construed as pushing a wagon. It only makes MoS more certain you're scum. I think what would be best right now is a post analyzing the cases against various people, and voting the one you think most suspicious. Some slight pro-Dylan sentiment would be easy to do without attracting suspicion or seeming fake, but it would put you in a better position if Dylan ends up being lynched.

@All

If all stays as it is, Dylan will be lynched at the deadline. This may not be the best lynch for us (I do believe what I said in the thread: Dylan would be nice for the scum (us) to keep around into D2), but it's much better than a pickem lynch, which seems a likely alternative.

That said, I don't think either of you should get on the Dylan wagon. That is, of course, ultimately up to you, but it would be good if only one of us were on Dylan at the deadline (assuming he is lynched). Pickem especially would be hurt by being on a pro-town lynch. I believe most of the wrath for a Dylan mislynch would be directed at HungryJoe and ThAdmiral.

@Adel

I really appreciate your PM when I replaced in: it shows great dedication and intelligence. I do not have any special roles (godfather, roleblocker, etc), just plain Mafia. As far as breadcrumbing, scumfighting, etc. I don't go in for that sort of stuff. During the day, as far as I'm concerned, I am a vanilla townie. Trying to do something tricky just makes the Mafia more likely to be discovered. Even if I thought it would be beneficial, I don't believe I could pull it off, or take advantage of it properly if I did. So don't waste your time looking for breadcrumbs in my posts, because they aren't there. Fakeclaiming does have its place later in the game, but time enough to think about that tonight. Most of all, Adel, keep up the good work for what's left of today, as well as tomorrow. I wouldn't worry too much about ckd's attacks: I don't think he's going to be convincing anybody any time soon, and he'd much rather lynch MoS than you. You're definitely on most peoples' pro-town list.

@All

Regarding Night 1

What will we do about MoS? He is uncannily sure that pickem is scum, and he's starting to gather some attention. I'm getting power role vibes from him, although it could just be his play style. I would suggest him for a N1 kill, but it seems a doc would be likely to protect him, and if he were killed, it would draw suspicion on pickem. Perhaps we should kill NabNab? Get rid of a relatively strong pro-town player, and frame HungryJoe in the process. Be thinking about it.

Let's hope we can avert a pickem lynch without drawing attention to ourselves in the process. Here's to a good Day 2!

CC: Adel, Num7, Per


@ Adel- Now would be a damn good time to use your awesomeness and cold crystaline logic against CKD.It would be a damn fine time for that actually. I will hopefully be going after Kate rather soon to kill some of this flak that you have received recently.

@Num7- MOS caught you too... well atleast you can alwasy get back on his good side again =/. The whole Kate thing put you in a bid light, and later on I plan on going after Kate, which will hopefully take some flak off of you.


@Me- I'm on the towns good side again... so that's cool... I will bus you guys if nothing arouses from my Kate talks. I also think Kate is the Doctor (if there is one, just a hunch). I also wouldn't mind going after CKD (although Adel clearly should do it since that whole I could use my logic and rip it to shreds post)



We can't can't can't get lynched Day 1, this day has been too damn long... And will be hard to win this game.

Wow, that's a lot of communication...

[curiouskarmadog]

bastards

[Mastermind of Sin]

Wow, you guys caught both power roles D1? Damn. Although I really don't know how you figured out I was a power role, cuz I didn't even know I was a power role! Lol.

[Albert B. Rampage]

lol noob scum got their asses handed to them =) /slightly joking

I was completely bullshitting about ThAdmiral. He was the most confirmed pro town player to me after kate, I just didn't want him to die during the night.

[NabakovNabakov]

I honestly enjoyed playing in this game. Being at the top of everybody's townie list gave me a warm/fuzzy feeling inside (even though I got killed for it). I second Adel's redo suggestion.

My scumhunting skills are still developing, but I think Adel did a particuarly nice job of misdirection during our mega-long D1. The end result for me was a whole lot of confusion that I didn't feel would be able to sustain a vote (but now that I think about it, the many phases of Adel should have clued me in to something fishy). If we didn't have MoS there to cut through the bullshit, there was a good chance of a scum-win.

I do honestly think that the scum allowed D1 to continue for far too long. All the evidence that was needed was collected during that day, the next 4 were just putting it together and making the lynches happen. The scum were too cautious in really only joining bandwagons, not pushing them, and the town was just cautious enough to keep these wagons from becoming lynches. I think if the scum had come down mega-hard on a player who wasn't MoS (ThAdmiral would probably have been my choice) a quicker lynch could have saved the game. Playing scum is very much about gauging opinions and following along with them, but there's also a place for changing them if need be.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I agree with NabNab.

[Adel]

I'm not happy about those PMs being published.

[Adel]

btw, after Num7's post I decided to go balls out in trying to either get MoS lynched or at least make a doc protect less likely. I felt like the result would be my lynch day 2 or day 3, but 1 scum for 1 MoS was a fair trade.

We easily could've gotten a dylan lynch at any point, but I felt like we could wait until a later day and then the town would drive the lynch of dylan for us. MoS replacing dylan, shucks, we should've allowed a dylan lynch around page 25.

lol noob scum got their asses handed to them =) /slightly joking

always a gentleman.

[ThAdmiral]

I totally agree that this game had great activity and good discussion. It was a pleasure to play with all of you.

[MeMe]

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