Mini 515 - The Pine Barrens - Game Over!

[mcpaltp]

I swear that I've already been over this before, but I am not voting for you due to Boggzie's claim of you receiving the PM. I am voting for you because your responses have been highly emotionaly charged, antagonistic, misleading and a pretty clear attempt to draw the attention away from yourself.

Also as I have said before, there is

virtually no way

to get definitive proof that someone is scum, especially on day 1.

Your posts

have most heavily rung as scum to me, hence my vote.

I hate doing the epic multi-quote megapost thing as it takes forever to collate all of the data, but I will if I have to.

[Rishi]

Fifth Vote Count - Day 1

ryan - 3 (Boggzie, mcpaltp, opie)
Bookitty - 3 (Elias_the_thief, TheHermit, Zakarum)
Boggzie - 2 (ryan, hasdgfas)

Not voting: ThAdmiral, neko2086, Spider Jerusalem, Bookitty

12 alive. 7 votes to lynch.

[Spider Jerusalem]

[quote="Spider Jerusalem"

So my questions are:
Why do you repeatedly call him a liar as opposed to saying he is mistaken?
Is there anything you wish to state to refute his claim that we have not heard yet?


1) Because instead of saying that I might have sent him a PM to join my game he immediately said that I was scum trying to PM him and I messed up and sent it to my wrong scum buddy, that is a bold faced lie. I do not discount that I may have sent him a PM to join my game, and yes I realize he wasn't on the reaplacement list, but what I did (as I stated earlier) was PM people that were online at the time when I needed a replacement. I cannot find the message in my sent box and I sent out quite a few replacement inquiries that day so I do not know for 100% certain that I sent him a message to join my game BUT I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt I did NOT send him a PM as my scum partner as I am not scum

2) Without quoting my role I can tell you that he has lied about the contents of said PM. Basically the way I look at it is IF I sent him a PM (which I didn't) and I was scum and he wasn't and it was past the speaking deadline than he should have reported it to the mod and one of us should have been modkilled for PMing AFTER the deadline was imposed, that would be breaking rules early on and easily fixed (by one of us being modkilled)

Thank you for your responses

However, you still insist on calling liar liar, rather than even accepting that Boggzie is merely making a poor assumption and thus is just mistaken. I thought I had explained rather clearly the difference between a lie and a mistake and so like opie I am now becoming extremely suspicious of you, even while ignoring Boggzies claim, but based purely on your own posts.

I would like to second the concerns from the end of opie's post (post #119) these concerns are almost the exact thoughts I had reading ryan's response to my questions.

I'd also like to note that he seems to be trying to twist Boggzie's accusation into something it's not. At this point I find it hard to accept that he was just confused about the fact that Boggzie said the PM was withdrawn before he could read it.

So mcpaltp, when I come up town what are you going to do than? Make silly excuses to why you voted me I'm sure

This is one of the scummiest arguments I can think of. It is purely an appeal to fear, and acts as if one person alone does the lynching. We never know, barring something like a confirmed cop revealing an investigation, that someone is certainly scum or town. At this point you only have 3 votes on you so no desperation plea is needed, making this really suspicious.

The people who are voting me have zero evidence (you included) you are taking one person's word over another and calling it gospel and that is NOT how you play mafia. You take evidence and build a case, until you do that I will continue to call you out on this.

No ryan I at least, and I hope the others who are suspicious of you, can completely ignore the PM accusation and just gauge your posts here as a measure of your likely-hood of scumminess.

Present some evidence yourself, provide some clear reasoning to clear yourself, give us some good quality analysis that indicates someone has behaved scummier than you.

I'm still unsure about voting for you as this whole thing was started by some metagame stuff thats very hard to analyze, but the more you continue with scare tactics and emotional appeals, the less any holes in Boggzie's argument concern me.

I need to examine a few other peoples behavior before I vote, so you've got one last chance to convince me.

[Boggzie]

I just had this thought. Boggzie says that he mus be innocent because of the risky move he's made. Well, sure, you're taking a risk if your town, but I wouldn't put it past mafia to make such a risky move, and here's why: mafia has backup. If all the mafia got in on the plot in the beginning, Boggzie would actually have less people to convince, making this move not nearly as risky as he's trying to make it out to be.

There is absolutely nothing I can say to counter this; you are 100% right. All I can say is simply read back through the thread and look at how reactionary ryan has replied. Nearly every reply has been a OMGUS!.

As far as Bokitty I have mentioned that she is less of a worry now as her confusion came off to me as sincere, but I am looking her direction because at one point she said she

did

get a PM from ryan, then she said she

didn't

. I dunno if it was emotional confusion or just she forgot her story. I'm thinking she was genuinely confused. However, I can see why a few of you are thinking me drawing her in was scummy. I can acknowledge that much. Let me reiterate, she's not a great worry to me at this point.

...but just so you know, it could easily be on ryan for the same thing. You just seem a little more...eager to get someone lynched quickly.

Your logic seems , well, logical. Although I don't see where I'm looking for a "quick lynch". Besides in a game this large, I find it hard to believe there is going to be a quick lynch. There's no way to give anyone any definative proof, just the same as I said already - there's a glaring difference between the two players you're weighing against one another.

That said;

The people who are voting me have zero evidence (you included) you are taking one person's word over another and calling it gospel and that is NOT how you play mafia. You take evidence and build a case, until you do that I will continue to call you out on this.

That

is a cop out stance. This entire game is based soley on what you post here; i.e "your words".

It's one thing if we're trying to solve a case in an American court of law, it's quite another to be playing this game.

However, you started replying so emotionally, and borderline irrationally that other folks' radar went off, and it only confirmed it all for me. You made a mistake, a quite costly one, and now you have to answer for it.

Because instead of saying that I might have sent him a PM to join my game he immediately said that I was scum trying to PM him and I messed up and sent it to my wrong scum buddy, that is a bold faced lie. I do not discount that I may have sent him a PM to join my game, and yes I realize he wasn't on the reaplacement list, but what I did (as I stated earlier) was PM people that were online at the time when I needed a replacement. I cannot find the message in my sent box and I sent out quite a few replacement inquiries that day so I do not know for 100% certain that I sent him a message to join my game BUT I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt I did NOT send him a PM as my scum partner as I am not scum

I have repeatedly stated I never read the PM - couldn't, you deleted it. You deleted it because you realized what you did - sent a PM to someone other than your partner. This is more of your jumping up and down "HE'S A LIAR! HE'S A LIAR!" when you acknowledge I'm not lying, you

did

send the PM, you

did

send it when I said you did. All this is is more of your desparation to get the spotlight off of you.

Without quoting my role I can tell you that he has lied about the contents of said PM. Basically the way I look at it is IF I sent him a PM (which I didn't)

Yes you did, you just said you did. Who's lying? This is more of your irrationality and emotionally filled posting here. You can't even keep your story straight.

...I was scum and he wasn't and it was past the speaking deadline than he should have reported it to the mod and one of us should have been modkilled for PMing AFTER the deadline was imposed, that would be breaking rules early on and easily fixed (by one of us being modkilled)

This a a last ditch effort to confuse people. I have posted the time of your PM (954a 15 OCT), all the players hadn't even confirmed until the 16th at 649p, it was post 20, look it up. Mafia was allowed to communicate during the confirmation stage, right? Your PM was well before the deadline. What a pitiful tactic to save yourself; trying to get me modkilled so you survive day 1 or yourself modkilled so you can save your record? Is that the last ploy now?

Ryan, you're seriously failing here, bro. You may want to just be quiet, aand hope your scum partners, if they haven't already turned on you for being so silly, can somehow bail you out.

[mcpaltp]

If I was scum, I'd bus him.










Did he just say that? Oh snap! *joke* *joke* *seriously joke*

[mcpaltp]

If I was scum, I'd bus him.










Did he just say that? Oh snap! *joke* *joke* *seriously joke*

Please disregard, that was kind of dickish. Now I feel bad-- sorry Ryan

[mcpaltp]

Oh god, what have I done. I'm really really sorry, and if everyone thinks that was too mean I'll asked to be replaced. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I've just had a bad day and I'm kind of on edge.

[Boggzie]

If I was scum, I'd bus him.










Did he just say that? Oh snap! *joke* *joke* *seriously joke*

I don't know what "bus" means, does it mean "sacrifice"? That's kinda funny if it does.

Anyhow, if it does, I think everyone needs to smile a little, especially ryan. I hope he smiles anyway.

[opie]

"Bus" as in "throw him under the"

Meaning if he was scum he would be distancing himself from ryan for drawing too much attention to himself.

[ryan]

Boggzie: Than quote what was in the message that I sent you. You've already quoted that I sent you a PM that "must be scum" (in your words) so quote it and show everyone EXACTLY what was in it.


Also a question was asked earlier if I had got a replacement for the game I was looking for and the answer is YES. Open 41 is the game I am modding and have been looknig for replacements as people have dropped off, feel free to look and than you can see I have been looking for replacement players.

[Boggzie]

Boggzie: Than quote what was in the message that I sent you. You've already quoted that I sent you a PM that "must be scum" (in your words) so quote it and show everyone EXACTLY what was in it.

So, you're so misguided aand lost now that your not even reading your own accuser's posts? Or are you so painted into that corner you don't have another argument.

I have said, along with other players...here...I'll just quote it.

I have repeatedly stated I never read the PM - couldn't, you deleted it. You deleted it because you realized what you did - sent a PM to someone other than your partner. This is more of your jumping up and down "HE'S A LIAR! HE'S A LIAR!" when you acknowledge I'm not lying, you did send the PM, you did send it when I said you did. All this is is more of your desparation to get the spotlight off of you.

So again, are you really getting so desparate that you have no other option than to regurgitate your earlier defenses when they have already been addressed?

At this point I cannot see how anyone but your own partner could possibly defend you. I can't see how anyone else here can stand by and

not

see your just out on a limb, trapped by your own mistake, and doing anything, from asking for a modkill to blatantly lying, to save your own skin.

You're guilty, period. You really need to just be quiet unless you can come up with some other defense. You're only looking worse and worse.

[ryan]

I guarantee you will be lynched after my role is outed and that's not a "let's put fear into you" quote, why would I delete a PM I sent to you? That's just stupid. I have no scum buddies, my vote remains on you for lying and keeping up this crap logic and your badgering is bullshit.

[Boggzie]

I guarantee you will be lynched after my role is outed and that's not a "let's put fear into you" quote, why would I delete a PM I sent to you? That's just stupid. I have no scum buddies, my vote remains on you for lying and keeping up this crap logic and your badgering is bullshit.

Scum, anyone?

I'm tired of him being offered the benefit of the doubt. Just read all this. Terrible.

[mcpaltp]

I guarantee you will be lynched after my role is outed and that's not a "let's put fear into you" quote, why would I delete a PM I sent to you? That's just stupid. I have no scum buddies, my vote remains on you for lying and keeping up this crap logic and your badgering is bullshit.

I have yet to see boggzie lie. Quote please?

[ryan]

I guarantee you will be lynched after my role is outed and that's not a "let's put fear into you" quote, why would I delete a PM I sent to you? That's just stupid. I have no scum buddies, my vote remains on you for lying and keeping up this crap logic and your badgering is bullshit.

I have yet to see boggzie lie. Quote please?

Here ya go

I believe the answer is pretty simple; he PM'd the wrong name from the list - he's scum.

[TheHermit]

I'd just like to point out that getting emotional is not a scumtell.

[ryan]

I'd just like to point out that getting emotional is not a scumtell.

I agree it is not, but I think posting information that isn't correct is scummy.

[mcpaltp]

I guarantee you will be lynched after my role is outed and that's not a "let's put fear into you" quote, why would I delete a PM I sent to you? That's just stupid. I have no scum buddies, my vote remains on you for lying and keeping up this crap logic and your badgering is bullshit.

I have yet to see boggzie lie. Quote please?

Here ya go

I believe

the answer is pretty simple; he PM'd the wrong name from the list - he's scum.

Did you read this part? When I read this, I see boggzie postulating that you may be scum due to the weird PM behavior. He may be right, he may be wrong. I did not see him say "ZOMG guyz, ryan totally pm'd me that he was scum! lynch him amirite?", which is what you seem to be saying was what he said.

That being said, I didn't beleive that you were scum until you responded way out of whack and started OMGUSing all over the place. For more detail see the last million posts addressed at you. Are you even reading them?

I'm not trying to be mean, and if you feel as though I am strawmanning or misrepresenting you in any way please let me know.

I still think you are scum and my vote is mega-confirmed.

[Bookitty]

Okay. Without getting into what's true, and what's not true...

Any statement that begins with the words "I believe" cannot be proven to be a lie, whether they be "I believe that it's possible to live only on spring water and fresh air", or "I believe the answer is pretty simple; he PM'd the wrong name from the list - he's scum. "

It can be wrong. It can be stupidly wrong. But it's not a lie, at least not a provable one. In any case I DO think Boggzie believes his theory, and in that case, no matter how wrong the statement above is...

It's NOT A LIE.

[Bookitty]

I posted before seeing yours, mcpaltp. Sorry to reiterate the point you'd already made.

[ryan]

Role:

Townie

Rules:

Every day you must vote to lynch one of your own, or vote for No-Lynch. You have no other special powers. You win with the town.

Flavor:

Ah. The life of a townie. You always thought this little town was a nice place to live because, if you lived in one of those big cities, you think you’d be much more interesting. And being interesting is a lot of work! It’s much more fun to blend into the background.

The thread is here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=790366
Please confirm in thread.

I'm done folks. I'm tired of trying to explain how Boggzie is completely lying, you townies that have gone after me and called me a liar, good luck, cause right now the scum have this game won. Peace out.

[Rishi]

Our scene opens with a carnivorous plant, rare in most of New Jersey but common in the Pine Barrens, slowly strangling a small spider to death. The camera pans out to the village. A circle of villagers surround ryan, shouting accusatory and threatening statements. Frustrated and disheveled, he looks as though he has gotten little sleep and cries out to the heavens, “Strike me down to show my innocence!”

Sure enough, a bolt of lightning flies from the sky, despite the lack of thunderclouds or rain, sizzling ryan to a crisp.

Someone says, “Wasn’t that a tad bit melodramatic?”

The villagers quickly rummage through ryan’s charred remains, looking for loose change and perhaps some gum. The gum is a gooey mess, but the villagers do find a driver’s license, blackened. Most of it is illegible, but some words can still be made out.

Someone says, “He’s from Iowa! Isn’t that where Mafia is from?”

Someone else says, “Not really.”

“Damn.”

Someone says, "Wait. If we can discern the identity of the Mafia by what's in people's pockets, why don't we just have everyone empty out their pockets?"

But the crowd is very sleepy with all of the day's excitement. A little nap wouldn't hurt, would it?

ryan, Townie, modkilled Day 1.

Due to the modkill, we will have the game proceed to night. Please have night choices in by Tuesday at 8pm. If all night choices come in earlier than that, then we may start Day 2 early.

[Rishi]

Morning. The town wakes up after restless nightmares, worried what the next day might bring. Meanwhile, the Mafia was dreaming of sugarplums.

The worries of the town continue when you find that your village has shrunk to ten members. In the middle of the town square, you find a DVD.

You all go to Someone’s house to put on the DVD. It wakes up with the screaming face of one of your own, with shadowy figures hovering above him. The camera is a fascinating tale of downfall. We never quite see the faces of the Mafia, but the victim is shown being abducted, tied up, and transported to the Delaware Water Gap.

Someone says, “This is beautifully shot. The Mafia has the best filmmakers.”

Someone Else says, “I especially like the lyrical scenes where the Mafia mixes the cement shoes. And the beatings in slow motion. That was a nice touch.”

Someone says, “And how did they get those underwater shots of him drowning?”

Someone Else immediately goes on over to the computer to check the IMDb. Most of the film is uncredited, but flipping through the cast list, you find something interesting. The part of the victim is listed as: Spider Jerusalem . . . Townie.

Someone says, “Too bad he didn’t have his bowel disruptor.”

Spider Jerusalem, Townie, killed Night One

It is now Day Two. Ten alive means six votes to lynch.

[Zakarum]

Well.... does this mean Bookitty is off the hook or could she just have been trying to cover for herself by outing ryan.

[mcpaltp]

Great. No only is my scumdar competely off and a townie gets himself modkilled, but we lose an awesome townie. (Nice flavor, btw) This blows.

Oh, and thanks ryan. Thanks a bunch. Not only is a townie lynched, but we don't even get any vote histories to analyse.

If there is a consensus that I was acting inappropriately/too aggressively in pursuing someone who I thought was scummy, I'll ask to be replaced. I really don't want to ruin the fun for everyone else/break the game. Even if there is not a consensus, I'd like everybody to weigh in on maybe how I should have done that differently, if at all. I'm feeling guilty about the whole mess.