Open 50: The New C9 - Abandoned!

[Oman]

Okay, Three things

1) Its Oman with an "A"

2)

Mod

Please remove references to PEGBAM in 141 and 143

3)

Mod

Please remove references to ongoing game in 145

Okay, now that the logistics are cleared can I point out a few things.

I simulposted with this:

quick wagons dont help this early.

Yes, they do. Quick wagons really help. They show a lot about people

Also, Hypocrit Jordanscum just wagoned on me for something "incredibly scummy" that he "missed". I would now like to

Unvote Vote Jordan

There is hardly a wagon there now, so don't tell me I'm doing it for no reason. Jordan wagoned me with some really badly faked reasons.

[Aimee]

Okay, I say we wait till we see more evidence for or against oman. So far, we have info about what he usually does, which cause a circle of questions.

FoS: TylerJ

Translation: "Let's just sit around waiting for Oman to screw up."

Scummy.

CKD, I'm still not seeing the point of FoSing someone for something they do when they are scum and town, but I think this could be a playstyle difference.

I'll have to check whether the Oman wagon actually has any merit or not.

AlyG, stop referrencing ongoing games.

[curiouskarmadog]

It's been mentioned on behalf of omen a few times. Should probably double check if he's used it himself, but metagame defenses aren't really a scumtell imho. They just bother me, because people aren't likely to go read all the other games for a small chance at improving a read.

Oman has not used that defense, and seems to be ignoring that this conversation is even going on...Oman comments?

Because I'm saying it's everyone's job to act pro-town. People shouldn't act scummy on purpose, I think it's harmful to the spirit of the game. I was trying to be a bit reasonable about this, though, because there are playstyle differences. To that end, I offered that people feel I'm over defensive as an example of a playstyle that could cause friction. I just think that when people ask me questions, as you did, that I should answer all of them, which I do.

this is an incredible silly post. everyone (scum included) should act pro-town? Some people think(not I) over defensiveness is scummy, should you stop being over defenesive then? Almost every type of action can be twisted to look scummy.

[Oman]

Comments? Sure.

This bandwagon attack on me because of my playstyle is bullshit, complete and utter. That doesn't mean I think everyone on it is scum, but I certainly advise everyone who is on me to really look at why they are on me, and if bandwagoning is your only reason, well thats really poor play.

Its like voting ryan for posting his role pm, or voting aimee for making a long post, or voting Ultima Avalon for self-voting, or voting BM for not making sense.

I can post games where I've wagoned as scum and as town, but its really irrelevant. What matters is that I got off the wagon because it served its purpose, allowed me to find two scumtells. Tyler being a goddamn nutter and Jordan's lame attempt at wagoning me.

Yah, they're my comments.

[LoudmouthLee]

I, with baited breath, await the Mod's return to this thread.

I'm unhappy with the results of this thread.

Mod, if you are unsure as what to do about this sitiuation (I know I would be floored, and I have modded for a long time), I recommend talking to MeMe and asking her advice.

I strongly recommend

NOT

removing any references, as they have happened and probably WILL be referenced again in this game.

[Oman]

No, it breaks the rules it should be removed.

Why do you want them left?

[LoudmouthLee]

Because it

HAPPENED.

We may need to refrence it later, especially if there are replacements in the game.

[Oman]

Okay fine, but I refuse to have them used in argument against anyone, ongoing games are ongoing, and they should stay out of other ongoing games.

[LoudmouthLee]

Okay fine, but I refuse to have them used in argument against anyone, ongoing games are ongoing, and they should stay out of other ongoing games.

Here's what bothers me, Oman.

#1) This, in my opinion, casts a much darker shadow on AlyG than you. However, your incredible amounts of "defensiveness" makes me a little bit concerned.

I feel like you're going through a "I'm scum, and I shouldn't be lynched over something like this!"

I feel a town alligned player would have just waited for the mod to come and fix it, rather than an outcry for having it removed. I am not prepared to vote you on it, as it's unfortunate. However, you will probably be lynched over it.

If I were mod, I would modkill AlyG, but that's just me. Your reactions to the whole ordeal makes for interesting banter.

Major FoS: Oman

[curiouskarmadog]

LML, has a point, why do you care...anyone can meta and see it..your reactions do seem odd if you are town. Why didnt you PM the mod or MeMe?

LML, why do you think Oman will be lynched? because of his reaction or the actual reference.

[LoudmouthLee]

The reaction, not the reference.

[curiouskarmadog]

yeah I think you are correct..honestly I didnt even meta those games until Oman freaked out.

[LoudmouthLee]

yeah I think you are correct..honestly I didnt even meta those games until Oman freaked out.

QFT.

Neither did I.

[Oman]

Okay, I got defensive because a player should have the integrity not to break the rules, anyone who breaks the rules (intentionally!) pisses me off mightly.

[LoudmouthLee]

Okay, I got defensive because a player should have the integrity not to break the rules, anyone who breaks the rules (intentionally!) pisses me off mightly.

How do you know the intent was malicious?

[Oman]

since we cant directly reference ongoing games it would be hard for me to show some examples

If you need an example of Oman's bandwagonning check out Mafia on a Plane in the Little Italy forum

Yeah, I don't KNOW it was malicious, but many people stated that it wasn't right, and AlyG has been around long enough to know that rule. I can only assume that AlyG knew two facts:
1) That game was ongoing
2) He is not allowed to reference ongoing games
Thus malicious intent is implied.

Perhaps I am overreacting, but rules/integrity is something I take heavily: There are cases in which my integrity as a player is questioned (ironically in an ongoing game so I can't reference it) where I flare up. My post in Urban Dead got removed when someone posted their role PM and I yelled at them. My point is that rules are not there to be broken, and anyone who does SHOULD be modkilled, but often is not.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am interested to hear AlyG comments at this point..

side question: both of your (Oman, LML) are on Jordan...do you both still think he is the SK?

[Oman]

I think he is scummy. I'm not going to be saying which scumgroup he's in because my reasons for voting him aren't specific to either group. I will say for the matter of clarity "He could very well be"

[ooba]

First of all , Oman could be considered suspicious for his bandwagoning but thats hardly any reason to put him at 6 so soon . So i have a feeling theres one or two highly opportunistic scum on the oman bandwagon ..

Lets Analyze the reasons they give for being on it ...

Bandwagons=/=Shamelessness
Bandwagons=Reason

No Comment..

Anyway, Oman's first post doesn't really help him any. All that concrete info in the first legit-game post is not exactly innocent-townie-ish behavior.

He isn't even stating that anything about the bandwagon - He's voting for him because of Oman's first post being big??

That was shameless bandwagoning (Though you have stated you always bandwagon) and of course you piled on a vote to (Shock,Horror) the guy with the most votes of course! At least try to provide a plausible reason when you vote someone.

Forgive me if im wrong but doesn't bandwagoning mean voting for the person with the highest number of votes?

I'm going to throw my lot in with Skitzer and Vote: Omen With the additional reason that jumping on the bandwagon was too soon, and especially since he tried to downplay it. If you're going to join a wagon, own up to it.

No Comment..

I hated ALL of Oman's posts. I can't see how any of his posts help. quick wagons dont help this early.

But you go and vote for a quick wagon on your second post in the game ...

I can't believe I missed such a scummy post. Oman, what is the point of an early bandwagon if you're just going to hop off at -2/-1? I'm not a fan of early wagons for little reason myself, I think they stunt the flow of the game (hence me being so suspicious of LML) and I prefer to wait for someone to post something properly scummy before we pile in on them. But if you're going to go down the early wagon route, why on Earth unvote as soon as it gets to -2/-1, isn't the whole point of an early wagon to pressure. If you try to dissapate a wagon as soon as the player starts feeling pressures, you're just stunting the flow of the game for no reason.

This depends on playstyles i guess . I for one would not keep anyone at -1/-2 unless i know they are most possibly scum ..

Skitzer has basically just joined the bandwagon giving (What in my opinion) is a very lame reason for voting .. So

Vote:skitzer

[LoudmouthLee]

I am interested to hear AlyG comments at this point..

side question: both of your (Oman, LML) are on Jordan...do you both still think he is the SK?

Something about Jordan's D1 posts seem off to me, hence why I have not removed my vote.

[Sammich]

FoS: Ooba

Wtf.

[Oman]

I'd say that ooba's post is incomplete. Theres a lot of no comments where there could be some good analysis. Voting Skitzer is the logical conclusion from that post, but that post is not a true reflection of the thread.

I'd be inclined to

FoS Ooba

for that.

As Ooba pointed out though, in the words I've been searching for: A vote shouldn't go on because of a disagreement in mafia theory or playstyle. If you like wagon-to-lynch thats fine, but don't vote me cause I wont have someone at -1 for "pressure" on page 6.

[JordanA24]

Also, Hypocrit Jordanscum just wagoned on me for something "incredibly scummy" that he "missed".

Explain why I am a hypocrit.

And also, isn't the base of the wagon on me being a bit defensive, right Oman? Well, look how defensive you just got.

[Shteven]

I'm not really seeing a reason to fos Ooba here. He could have done better by coming up with comments for the two players he missed, of course, but in general looking at early wagons for scum is a good strategy. It's the main factor in picking Oman, for when he jumped on Jordan.

[somestrangeflea]

AlyG: What are your thoughts about the incidents brought up in relation to you and your comments regarding ongoing games.

Ooba: Could you, or at least explain why you didn't, fill in the blanks of your last post?