Open 50: The New C9 - Abandoned!

[White]

What's scummy about a lots of posts piling up quickly? You want us to slow down? Why?

119 is a massive backpedal.

Unvote, Vote: laptop gun

[Shteven]

I find it hard to believe people are complaining about a 5 page re-read, but maybe that's just because my last game is still going and past 100 pages. Now there's some replacements I felt sorry for

***

Because I felt it may be useful, I'm compiling vote history so far. Maybe I'll keep this up throughout the game, or maybe I'll be lazy. If I'm lazy, someone else can always do it also.

Votes marked random only if explicitly stated random, or mentioning some random method for making the vote. Ie, oman's first vote was based on alphabetical order of player names. Dice rolled means they rolled dice in-thread.

Oman votes for Aimee (random).
Ooba votes for Oman (random).
Jordan votes for Opposed Force (Dice-rolled random).
SomeStrangeFlea votes for Opposed Force (dice rolled random).
LML votes for Jordan.
Sammich votes for LML.
LaptopGun votes for SSF. (random)
Jordan votes LML.
TylerJ votes Jordan.
Skitzer votes AlyG.
CKD votes obaa. (random)
OpposedForce votes SSF (random).
AlyG votes Oman (random).
White votes Jordan.
Shteven votes TylerJ (random).
Oman votes Jordan.
Aimee votes Jordan.
Sammich votes Oman.
Ooba votes Sammich.
Skitzer votes Oman.
Shteven votes Oman. (learn to spell nub)
AlyG confirms vote on Oman (no longer random).
Sammich confirms vote on Oman.
White votes Skitzer.
Oman votes TylerJ.
SSF votes LaptopGun.

***

Commentary: The Jordan wagon, based on LML's claim that jordan's post about the SK revealed that jordan is the SK, has stalled. People haven't left it yet and may still succeed, but later votes have tended towards Oman with some other scattered targets. It may be too early to successfully lynch, or perhaps he's hidden well enough. He's also reflexively voted LML.

Oman's case is based on his admitted band wagoning. I voted for this, but in looking back, it seems like Jordan may be the better choice. I will consider this, I'm not moving my vote just yet, but also wanted to point out this post:

vote: Jordan
FoS: shteven

Tone thing is pretty big, but I'm more concerned about the way they both have tried to move suspicion back onto LML (although shteven not as much as Jordan). I don't understand how anything LML has done so far is anti-town.

I think you meant "although Jordan not as much as Shteven".

I'm a bit curious what LML is trying to pull off here. He's already started the largest bandwagon so far, getting five votes for attacking one post (the response vote may also have helped fuel the wagon). He's now trying to start a brand new wagon? Granted wagons shift frequently at the start of the game, but it seems like LML may be trying to throw out anything that will stick at this point. What have I done that you think I deserve more suspicion than Jordan, who you've already claimed is the SK?

I'm aware that I may be playing into Aimee's concerns here, but I think it would be doing the town a disservice to be silent.

[TylerJ]

Laptop Gun, OpposedForce, and CKD all have their votes still on random. Just a note.

[LaptopGun]

Sorry SSF I interpreted it as more the later and not the former.

White, I've tried to explain myself. I dont like fast games that quickly get townies accidently killed. I do like them when the Mafia slip up. I know it is "glass is half full/empty deal." Take it how you will. I think we have slowed down becsause the Jordan bandwagon has stalled. It seems debate about me is keeping things trucking...

Tyler I really don't have a lot to change it one way or another, so I am standing pat.

[Gatorguy91]

JordanA24- 3 (LML, TylerJ, Aimee)
Oman- 4 (AlyG, Sammich, skitzer, Shteven)
SSF- 2 (Laptop Gun, OpposedForce)
LoudMouthLee- 1 (JordanA24)
TylerJ- 1 (Oman)
Sammich- 1 (Ooba)
Laptop Gun- 2 (SSF, White)

17 alive 9 to lynch

Man that VC was easy.

[Shteven]

Well you missed white's moving to laptopgun! He posted at the same time as my recount, so his vote wasn't in my post.

[ManaSpryte]

Finshed doing a quick read (I'm sorry again for missing the start, life kinda gets in the way sometimes)

God. A Night 1 shooting vig. Well then.

Dear Vig,

Don't ever do that again.

-LML

On to possible scum hunting...

Vig, while it is possible that you killed scum last night

The vig has a 50/50 chance of either hitting scum or hitting a townie. For all we know, the vig killed the townie and the SK killed the mafia member. In the other "New C9", kill methods were shown. Here, they were not.

I find it incredibly interesting that your opening post contained that line. It's possible, as you say, but no more probable that he was the SK. I find it very curious how the tone of your post makes it seem like you KNEW that the vig killed Mafia.

Vote: Jordan

, our resident Serial Killer.

This would, of course, be the only way that anyone would know that the Vig killed mafia. I get that from the tone of his opening post.

I wasnt sure how to react to LMLs post on Jordan so early, I don't know if he was just trying to start up a wagon, But it didn not sit well with me at first, but when Jordan just OMGUS and get a little to defensive for my liking.

Sorry SSF I interpreted it as more the later and not the former.

White, I've tried to explain myself. I dont like fast games that quickly get townies accidently killed. I do like them when the Mafia slip up. I know it is "glass is half full/empty deal." Take it how you will. I think we have slowed down becsause the Jordan bandwagon has stalled. It seems debate about me is keeping things trucking...

Tyler I really don't have a lot to change it one way or another, so I am standing pat.

I agree with Laptop, The faster the game gets, the easier it can be to get a mis-lynch.

Hey, AlyG...I'm wagoning. For a wagon's sake.

I'll jump off if it comes to -1, -2 definatly.

die scum die.

I hated ALL of Oman's posts. I can't see how any of his posts help. quick wagons dont help this early.

Vote: Oman

FOS: Jordan

[Oman]

Okay so whats the wagon on me for? Because I wagon?

Do I really have to defend agaisnt this, I've already proven that I do not just blindly wagon, I am voting for Tyler off a very real feeling that he is scum because he has been sharpening his knives (<3 CKD). Thus, I am not blindly wagoning anymore.

[JordanA24]

Hey, AlyG...I'm wagoning. For a wagon's sake.

I'll jump off if it comes to -1, -2 definatly.

Hang on, where was this? I can't believe I missed such a scummy post. Oman, what is the point of an early bandwagon if you're just going to hop off at -2/-1? I'm not a fan of early wagons for little reason myself, I think they stunt the flow of the game (hence me being so suspicious of LML) and I prefer to wait for someone to post something properly scummy before we pile in on them. But if you're going to go down the early wagon route, why on Earth unvote as soon as it gets to -2/-1, isn't the whole point of an early wagon to pressure. If you try to dissapate a wagon as soon as the player starts feeling pressures, you're just stunting the flow of the game for no reason.

Unvote Vote: Oman

[Oman]

-1 is "pressure" to you?

You're kidding me, right?

I'm not even ON that wagon

[Oman]

EBWOP: The third sentence is on a seperate lean to the others.

[JordanA24]

-1 is "pressure" to you?

You're kidding me, right?

In an early bandwagon, yes it is. Only an idiot would put the hammer vote on so early and with such little evidence. So, in an early bandwagon, putting a player at -2/-1 would serve to make the player realise that if they make a couple more bad posts, and create some more evidence against themselves, it becomes more likely that people will start thinking that they are genuinly scummy, and that those players will vote for them. If a player is at -2/-1, it'll take very few players to think and do that, and that person is lynched.

So, in an early wagon like the one against me, -2/-1 is only pressure.

[White]

Actually I think this is how Oman acts regardless of his true alignment. So I'm not going to jump on him just yet.

[TylerJ]

Can you show some examples of Oman acting like this?

Laptopgun, I wasn't saying you were scummy for still having a random vote, I just figured it was worth mentioning. so you don't have to defend.

[curiouskarmadog]

Can you show some examples of Oman acting like this?

Laptopgun, I wasn't saying you were scummy for still having a random vote, I just figured it was worth mentioning. so you don't have to defend.

since we cant directly reference ongoing games it would be hard for me to show some examples...However, if you metagame a bit I am sure you will figure out what games I am referencing..

again, I am not clearing Oman at all...just not enough for me to push a wagon on him atm...also, I would like to see some out comes of other games to get a better read on Sir Wagons-a-lot.

[TylerJ]

K. I guess I'll have to research.

[Sammich]

I 'unno. I think it's still running or something, but I'm not willing to give up on that suspicion yet.

[White]

Shouldn't be that hard. Me and SKD are in the same game with him where he's acting like this.

[Shteven]

Metagame defenses make me nervous, but I can't help realizing they're useful. People do play differently; but I'm really not interested in reading 2-3 games from player's past just to figure out how to play this game.

I do my best to avoid being scummy each game and I think you should too. Other than a few people saying I'm too defensive I think I do a pretty good job, we'll see

Early wagons at -2 are pressure. early wagons at -1 are a bad idea. You don't know who would be willing to hammer.

[AlyG]

POST REMOVED- Don't Refrence ongoing games.

[Shteven]

Oy...I forgot to include the whole point. Wagoning for pressure is fine, I imagine that was LML's main point in attacking jordan. But if you outright tell the person it's just pressure, then there is no pressure. And that's just distracting. It's a good time to be voting Oman...

[White]

AlyG, you're not supposed to mention ongoing games....ugh.

[curiouskarmadog]

Metagame defenses make me nervous, but I can't help realizing they're useful. People do play differently; but I'm really not interested in reading 2-3 games from player's past just to figure out how to play this game.

I do my best to avoid being scummy each game and I think you should too. Other than a few people saying I'm too defensive I think I do a pretty good job, we'll see

Early wagons at -2 are pressure. early wagons at -1 are a bad idea. You don't know who would be willing to hammer.

where did this post come from? who is using a metagame defense? Why should we care you try to avoid being scummy...and why volunteer that people think you are too defensive?

[TylerJ]

Okay, I say we wait till we see more evidence for or against oman. So far, we have info about what he usually does, which cause a circle of questions.

[Shteven]

Metagame defenses make me nervous, but I can't help realizing they're useful. People do play differently; but I'm really not interested in reading 2-3 games from player's past just to figure out how to play this game.

I do my best to avoid being scummy each game and I think you should too. Other than a few people saying I'm too defensive I think I do a pretty good job, we'll see

Early wagons at -2 are pressure. early wagons at -1 are a bad idea. You don't know who would be willing to hammer.

where did this post come from?

It is a direct response to the post immediately above mine, saying that Oman has acted equally in other games.

who is using a metagame defense?

It's been mentioned on behalf of omen a few times. Should probably double check if he's used it himself, but metagame defenses aren't really a scumtell imho. They just bother me, because people aren't likely to go read all the other games for a small chance at improving a read.

Why should we care you try to avoid being scummy...and why volunteer that people think you are too defensive?

Because I'm saying it's everyone's job to act pro-town. People shouldn't act scummy on purpose, I think it's harmful to the spirit of the game. I was trying to be a bit reasonable about this, though, because there are playstyle differences. To that end, I offered that people feel I'm over defensive as an example of a playstyle that could cause friction. I just think that when people ask me questions, as you did, that I should answer all of them, which I do.