Mini Normal 1775 END!

[heuristically_alone]

Oops. Heaurissjjahsbdalone and Lowell* and Riabi. Lowell is also somewhat unlikely since he was the counter lynch

Haha love my name. I still think Lowell could just as likely be scum

[heuristically_alone]

...Also, if I gave you my evidence, it would greatly put me at risk as being the night kill, and I value my life.

I feel like I should address this point specifically. Barring any PRs doing their thing, there is going to be a NK, isn't it better to go out having done something to help find scum rather than to cower in fear of your life?

I feel like this would be a good time to explain what I meant by this. Because the scum is so bad at night kills, I probably won't even be killed tonight either. My role (before I took over) investigated mhs and he came back as innocent.

Claiming now because I feel confident in town's win and to make us win quicker I just want to really ensure there is no mislynch.

[mhsmith0]

@ h_a: any other results? or just the one? Given that there's just one wolf left, I'll submit that as evidence that clears me, but I'm not sure it clears you.

[heuristically_alone]

I could only investigate once. Last night, I took myself out of the game at night so I couldn't be killed so I could share that info in the morning.

[Dierfire]

Which night was that investigation?

[heuristically_alone]

Night one. Night two, the slot I replaced made no action.

[mhsmith0]

@h_a:
1) In your opinion, why did the N1 investigation of my slot in particular make sense?
2) What action, if any, did your slot take N3?

@all: If I understand correctly, h_a is claiming some form of JOAT. Is it "normal" to have both a town-aligned JOAT and a town-aligned JK in this size game?

[heuristically_alone]

Last night, I took myself out of the game at night so I couldn't be killed so I could share that info in the morning.

Commuter ability.

[mhsmith0]

Right, that's night 4 that you commuted. What about night 3? Also no action?

[heuristically_alone]

Oh, sorry . N3 watcher and watched Lowell, who did nothing.

[mhsmith0]

FWIW, skimming the Sayaka-Maestra-alone triple ISO, at the very least your slot seems to have played this reasonably consistently with what you're claiming (Sayaka's seemingly out of nowhere #1 town read of me early D2, Maestro's "I see why this slot was unconcerned" bit, etc.). But a few things trouble me:

1) I have no idea if JK+JOAT is reasonably balanced or not. Especially given that day talk is dependent on a specific role instead of simply existing.
2) I'm not sure where Maestro was going picking a (drunk) fight with me a while back. Seems a bit odd given his mod-confirm of me.
3) I'm not sure why Sayaka would have investigated me out of everyone here. It seems random. Like, newbies are generally easier to read than experienced players. I guess I need to think on whether that makes sense, or if she just went random, or what.

I guess I need to think on this some more.

@all: presuming the JOAT claim (cop/tracker/commuter), is it standard to do a cop investigation first off the bat? Or is it more normal to wait on that? I haven't been JOAT before, so I don't really know what standard behavior there is.

/ninja'd: Lowell, please confirm that N3 you did nothing.

[mhsmith0]

@Toast: can you give us an update of your chart? And which of those three slots (leader/sheep/lurker) would you put yourself in, and why?

@alone: given that you had Lowell as a "no action" on N3, why were you "most confident" for Lowell as mafia in 1580? It's obviously not a hard clear of any sort, but given only two wolves left, it's a mechanical "makes it less likely" sort of thing, I would think.

@Lowell: do you have updated reads? D4 you thought it was me and dier at 1521? Still think it's dier? Still think it might reasonably be me?

[heuristically_alone]

Getting a "no action" read is pretty much the same thing as me never making an action in the first place. It's not that tough for any mafia to make the kill. That's why I pretty much ignored it. Given how Garmr says before dying that his mafia buddy got to kill who they wanted, if that's true, it does stand the reason that his mafia buddy is someone that would want to perform the kill, so after seeing that, it shakes my confidence on voting Lowell a little.

[Lowell]

Yes, voting me makes all sense. I'm sure we have our shit together enough that both leading wagons were scum.

[mhsmith0]

Yes, voting me makes all sense. I'm sure we have our shit together enough that both leading wagons were scum.

Kind of a weird comment for someone sitting on zero votes right now. Who do you think is a better wagon?

[mhsmith0]

PS @Lowell: Please confirm you did nothing N3.

[Lowell]

I did nothing

[mhsmith0]

I did nothing

Obligatory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpdgSKVsFu8

More seriously, who do you think is a better wagon than you today?

[mhsmith0]

Re-reading day one. REALLY weird wolf team activity if Lowell was the third. Garmr just kind of sitting on that wagon, boon not really trying all that hard to undo it. And it was town who drove the Madonna wagon pretty hard. I won't say that's clearing, and need to re read the rest, but Lowell may not actually be the right lynch. Not really sure who would be though. More re reading to come I guess.

[heuristically_alone]

Riabi and Toastytoast

Can you both give me your town reads as of the end of the day yesterday, including that of texcat?

[mhsmith0]

@all: if we believe alone's claim, then we had a JK, AND a JOAT, AND a universal backup. Is that normal/balanced? I'll admit not really being familiar with how this tends to work, but that seems a bit unbalanced off the cuff, especially given that mafia's day chat depended on one specific role staying alive. Throw in Garmr hammering right after alone voted... I dunno.

[mhsmith0]

I feel like I'm talking to myself, which is always fun. Anyway...

So a bunch of games don't bother listing out roles on page 1 after they're finished, which is super annoying, so I only compared to two:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=63200
mafia has three goons, town has a JK, a cop, and a 1-shot vig

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=63461
mafia has two goons and a RB, town has two masons, and a BP, and a doc

Comparing to this game...

mafia has a goon, a day-talker, and a ___
town has a JK, a claimed JOAT, a universal backup, and ___

So unless town has some other kind of notable PR(s), I think alone is reasonably clear at this point. If someone with actual experience in modding or game creation/review wants to counter this logic, feel free. But if a JK, cop AND one-shot vig vs three goons is a balanced setup, then I can't think that JK/backup and all VT vs even two goons + day-talker (much less potentially something more on the mafia side) is also balanced.

[mhsmith0]

PS That said, it'd be hilarious if we had two different mafia fake claim JOAT in the same game. I'd also wonder why this slot didn't go nuts on boon's fake claim, but Sayaka literally wasn't around at the time, so I guess that explains that.

[mhsmith0]

Actually... one other question (I know, I know, it's annoying). Is it standard procedure for a sub to be told the results of his slot's prior night actions? On MU (I play some there too) it's not, so I'd like confirmation of site norms here. If it's not standard operating procedure here, we may have caught our last mafia. If it is standard operating procedure, then never mind.

[heuristically_alone]

You aren't going to counterclaim. You have nothing to claim. Literally, nothing. I am literally not worried at all. Pissed off? Yes.

So?

Fellas, there's a reason she isn't counter claiming. All your posts are crap now.

How are they crap?

You aren't saying anything or making any kind of cases besides "oh, he's lying about being that role. lynch him. lynch the person who claimed PR. don't believe it. Just don't. please guys, dont believe it. he's lying.

I would have probably have believed you if you had come at me with everything when i infered that you were lying, but you didn't. Too late to go and do as i was expecting town to do now.

that's your entire fucking case.

My entire case on you consists on calling ppl out on stuff they arent doing, fake claiming a PR, and your actions not matching your words. Your AtE is fake, your claim is fake.

Different scenario. I was a leading factor of Madonna's lynch, I feel. I didn't want Lowell lynched, and Madonna was just super scummy. I wouldn't be surprised if Sakura was the only scum there.

Oh my goodness! Sakura and Boons distanced themselves so hardcore back when Boons was getting called out. Sakura also had a hand in all the mislynches, I believe. I think Sakura might have fake claimed her vengekill as well after Boons did his fakeclaim. I think at least one mafia had to have contributed in all lynches, which takes Lowell out as a candidate.

VOTE: Riabi