California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Rockies in 5, they lose to Webb once, not twice.

[Talitha]

I haven't used my word. I don't even think mine is a proper word.

I assume they were included for SOME purpose, but I have no clue what it could possibly be. From a mod's perspective, if i were including secret words in a game I would also include one role whose function has something to do with those secret words.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like the serial killer from Verbose II, I'd imagine there might be some kind of role like that.

I've waited a long time for Lee to produce a single timestamped instance of him using the word lace in that connotation. Given that he has yet to do it despite his claims that he commonly uses it that way, I have to go with him being scum.

vote LoudmouthLee

[MrBuddyLee]

Pooky, can you please explain your hypothesis regarding who Lee is and what he's done?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I've made more than enough posts today for you to know what I think about Lee right now.

If you can't read them, that's not on me, it's on you.

I don't know what Lee is, but I believe with a high degree of certainty that he's lying about his usage of the word "lace" and it doesn't make sense for him to be dodgy that way unless he is anti-town.

[Sarcastro]

I agree with Pooky.

I'd also like a better explanation from MBL for his vote on me. As far as I can tell, it's a holdover from some weak suspicion he had of Dani.

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

LoudmouthLee: 5 (Sarcastro/Dani Banani, logicticus, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Tamuz)
Talitha: 3 (foolinc, LoudmouthLee, Zindaras)
MrBuddyLee: 2 (Dragon Phoenix, VitaminR)
Sarcastro/Dani Banani: 1 (MrBuddyLee)
Mr. Grey: 1 (Gaspar)

Current Condorcet Winner:

None. Current Smith Set: Cogito Ergo Sum, Sarcastro/Dani Banani, Dragon Phoenix, Gaspar, IH, logicticus, LoudmouthLee, MrBuddyLee, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Tamuz, VitaminR

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[LoudmouthLee]

The following things I know are true.

#1) If no one comes to my aid about the Xyzzy kill, the kill is an ANTI-TOWN kill. I don't care how much you are looking to protect your role, but if you are a VIG and are trying to protect your role, it is NOT too late to save a mislynch in me.

#2) I firmly believe that the Xyzzy kill belongs to Mr. Grey, and I feel that the majority of the town is being foolish here.

#3) Nothing I could say or do will make Pooky change his mind. Pooky has changed from a top quality mafia player to a player who absolutely "needs" to be right, no matter the situation. I will be sure to discuss this in great detail after the game. This is not meant to be a knock on you, Pooky, more like a statement of fact. Sorry, but I didn't kill Xyzzy. If you guys choose to lynch me, you will have even LESS information while killing a power role (albiet a weak power role.)

I am unsure if Pooky's inability to read both sides of a situation is leading me to think he's scum, or just an arrogant player who doesn't know his ass from his elbow.

The question is, simply...

If you think I'm responsible for the Xyzzy kill, why would you NOT give me the benefit of the doubt

due to the DUEL scene

and lynch Mr. Grey first? If he turns out to just be... well... a red herring, I will go quietly into the night.

If you want to really try to find scum (which you all SHOULD..) you really need to look elsewhere other than me.

PS: I promise you that at least one, possibly two scum members are on my bandwagon right now.

So, if you REALLY want to lynch me, do it tomorrow and

lynch Mr. Grey today.

You may call it OMGUS, but it takes a special type of scum to spin this bullshit on me. If you want to find scum, it's about time that you stop listening to Pooky. You may call my condorcet OMGUS, but there's definately scum on it.

Vote: Mr. Grey

, Tally, Pooky, Logi, Sarcastro, Tamuz, MBL

[Gaspar]

I've made more than enough posts today for you to know what I think about Lee right now.

If you can't read them, that's not on me, it's on you.

I don't know what Lee is, but I believe with a high degree of certainty that he's lying about his usage of the word "lace" and it doesn't make sense for him to be dodgy that way unless he is anti-town.

I agree with Pooky.

I'd also like a better explanation from MBL for his vote on me. As far as I can tell, it's a holdover from some weak suspicion he had of Dani.

Gee, it's like my point about MBL asking selectively-chosen (and apparently redundant) questions to others to hide his own noncontribution is a valid one!


Crazy how that works, ain't it?

[MrBuddyLee]

Sarc, yes I found Dani suspicious for ignoring the controversial issues of the game, and while I don't find your BRINGING UP the LACE issue to be scummy at all, I do believe you've been a one trick pony since you entered the game. If you have two or three scumpartners, I have NO idea how you feel about them right now, which you know is not kosher. If you're town, I have pretty much no way of knowing that whatsoever. So yeah, please do something readable.

[Sarcastro]

You're right that I should probably be doing a better job of that. I admit that I've kind of just been wanting to finish off this day with an LML lynch and put in more effort starting tomorrow.

That still seems like a weak reason to be voting for me now, especially since you haven't even been pushing for a bandwagon on me or anything. Don't you feel strongly about anyone else?

So yeah, I'm not a huge fan of yours right now, if that means anything.

Let's see, what else? Pooky is clearly pro-town. Gaspar looks pro-town as well. A lot of people haven't posted much since I entered the game, though. I'd like to hear more from IH, who has been even more peripheral than I have.

[MrBuddyLee]

Sarc, also: Dani criticized me for something he himself was doing: voting his top two people without any comment on why. Dissonance--it indicates his reason for "suspecting" me is likely not genuine.

[MrBuddyLee]

Gee, it's like my point about MBL asking selectively-chosen (and apparently redundant) questions to others to hide his own noncontribution is a valid one!

Crazy how that works, ain't it?

Crazy's not the word I'd choose to describe your selective reading abilities... here's a summary of my questions and comments on players since I entered the game (actually it ignores my initial three skim/analysis posts which were as much for my benefit as yours):

@Dani: MoS intentionally chose not to move the game forward, and your posts did not leap out to me as in any way aggressively scumhunting. Wallflowers are scummy.

IH, can you please link me to your best game as scum? Thanks.

I'm not good at reading LML as evidenced by our last game together, but I don't find him overtly townish at this juncture. He's defensive++ and insightful-.

logicticus, has everyone you care to hear weigh in on foolinc weighed in?

i didn't miss the claim, i didn't miss the gaspar retraction ("oops"). i find it mildly scummy.

IH seems alternately insightful and sleazy. ADD or scum?

Is Tamuz's fixation avoidant?

Is VitR solid or selective?

Dani Banani, you've got me as FIRST on both your lists and you've said nothing about me. You've got foolinc SECOND on both your lists and have said NOTHING about him either.

IH, can you please post your gut feelings on foolinc, Mgm and Skruffs? Preferably without using the thread as a reference?

CES, you're not opposed to a foolinc lynch and demanded his claim even though he isn't on your condo list. Can you please clarify how you felt about him (and why) before his claim and whether or not you're inclined to believe his claim?

VitR, you trust Mgm significantly. His suspicions are about as different from yours as can be. Can you explain what it is about him you trust this game, and why you think your suspicions differ so greatly?

I believe foolinc is either the doctor or was given the safeclaim of Doctor d'Avrigny. The offhand way in which he speculates about the doctor in his intro post is weak confirmation that this is his identity. foolinc, I understand why you changed your mind about Skruffs. What made you decide to trust Dani Banani?

MGM, why do you trust Dani Banani?

OK, top scum candidate by FAR is Dani Banani. MoS was creepy-useless, and Banani hasn't shown any interest in finding scum. Calling Mgm the "correct play" is a scummy way of indicating suspicion, claiming difficulty reading the recently scummy Talitha looks like weak distancing, as does the "agreement" with Thespscum where the statement about lurkers could have EASILY been made without mentioning Thesp. Check it out.

PWS was scummy, Gaspar's mentioned me in 70% of his posts since I entered the game, and he's wrong YET AGAIN about my alignment. He was wrong about Mgm and I think his read on Banani is atrocious and inexplicable. Plus the inattentive miss-the-claim thing.

I also know you're quality scum, VitR, and I know you know that I know that. So I'm watching you, and I expect pro-town play from you to have a different tenor than what I'm seeing.

CES's behavior with regards to Mgm is highly suspect. Total inconsistency of suspicion/trust level and argument/defense.

I don't like Lee's arguments re: IH and his sheeping on Gaspar/VitR.

IH's claim is inappropriate and bizarrely timed. Overly proactively defensive.

Zindy actually thinking things through out loud, his putting himself in scum's shoes doesn't look fake. Genuine curiosity.

Tamuz awkwardly echoes CES.

Thesp calls out logicticus for using the wrong term for a secret word... potential busing after a scumpartner made a mistake?

Thesp glued to IH all day, gives very few ongoing specifics. Sticking doggedly to a scumpartner or riding the easy lynch? I'd lean towards the latter.

Thesp-strident attacks against LML early, 7.0 on the Richter. Doesn't seem to be a good strategy between two quality scumpartners to make each other targets this quickly, so I'd guess they're not aligned.

DP, I note that your vote keeps me neck and neck with IH, someone I expressed mild displeasure with in the post you didn't like. You had IH in the middle of your suspicions list until early today, when you cited his post 657 as a reason for finding him protown and moved IH to the bottom of your list. 657 was a patented IH wall-o-text, which I agree looks thoughtful, but it's also the post in which IH voted for LML despite the "innocent investigation". Would you say IH's vote was remotely appropriate, and if not, would you speculate on how you view his alignment in light of that vote and line of discussion?

IH, your top suspicions have been Skruffs, Mgm, BM, VitR, LML. You've mentioned that you found DP scummy on a particular topic but never included him in ANY of your Condorcets and you've actually defended him from two players. Can you please explain the evolution of your thought on his alignment in this game?

I have to note that the people voting me haven't asked me any questions, they've just kind of plunked votes down on me and let them stand. If either of you are really interested in ascertaining alignments, I think you'd be trying to find out whether I'm aligned with anyone. I don't get the least sense of that, not even an attempt to connect me with dead known scum.

logicticus, can you please explain your thoughts on CES, foolinc and Talitha?

Pooky, can you please explain your thoughts on Sarcastro and his predecessors, on IH, on Gaspar

VitR, I reviewed your posts and you've asked only one or two questions of people this game, and the answers to those questions would result in the same general feel I get from all of your comments in this game: nearly every remark is designed to attract the least amount of scrutiny and the maximum amount of agreement.

CES hasn't moved the game forward much at all, and I want the squeeze put on him like it should have been put on him D1/D2 of Face to Face. This is how HE operates as scum and he needs to be knocked off HIS game.

Tamuz jumped way too wildly on Skruffs' pseudo-claim and has had generally lousy suspicions.

Zindaras makes sense to me for the most part thus far and several times has expressed thoughts in his posts that I was about to express myself.

Pooky, can you please explain your hypothesis regarding who Lee is and what he's done?

Sarc, yes I found Dani suspicious for ignoring the controversial issues of the game, and while I don't find your BRINGING UP the LACE issue to be scummy at all, I do believe you've been a one trick pony since you entered the game. If you have two or three scumpartners, I have NO idea how you feel about them right now, which you know is not kosher. If you're town, I have pretty much no way of knowing that whatsoever.

So my questions not to Gaspar, but to anyone sitting back detachedly and watching Gaspar's song and dance:

1. Why's Gaspar attacking me for noncontribution? Is it a proportional accusation? Do you really feel I'm, as he says, "asking selectively-chosen, redundant questions to others to hide (my) own noncontribution"?

2. I won't blast the thread with posts right now, but I did a search by player for three people and found that each one had commented on two or less players in the game over this past few weeks. Is Gaspar's accusation selective, and who does it appear he could make the same accusation against (and more appropriately) but isn't?

3. Is Gaspar playing well? Is he playing poorly as town? Or is he playing carelessly, throwing out unfounded suspicions and dissembling because he doesn't actually HAVE suspicions because he's scum?

Alive (14)

Cogito Ergo Sum
Dragon Phoenix
foolinc
Gaspar, replacing PlaysWithSquirrels D1
IH, replacing Oman D1
logicticus
LoudmouthLee
MrBuddyLee, replacing Adele D2
PookyTheMagicalBear
Sarcastro, replacing Dani Banani D3, Mastermind of Sin D1
Talitha
Tamuz, replacing Thestatusquo D1
VitaminR
Zindaras

And to Gaspar:

In light of the above WALL O TEXT, please revise and extend your remarks about my redundant, selectively-chosen(?!) questions and clarify your criticism of my play. I've created a relational web between me and most of the remaining players--which, if any of the connections look weak or phony to you? Why me when by all appearances my contribution dwarfs those of many players in this game?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

That's hilarious Lee, because I wasn't voting for you or planning to vote for you UNTIL you opened your mouth and reacted to what I asked for that way.

The MAIN reason I am voting for you is NOT the "amazing coincidence" but rather the fact that you had claimed that your usage of the word LACE was commonplace

I use the term lacing into someone frequently. I capitalized the worst for effect (since I can't BOLD in this game).

Yet you are unable to cite a single timestamped incident of you using the word lace in that context before on this site.

Instead you managed to "remember" this piece of your profile on a dating site that you supposedly put up a while ago and which shows your last login time as the same day as when you posted it.

Look Lee, either you use the word lace that way alot(as you claimed) and can produce a timestamped example OR you don't use the word lace that away often and you were lying through your teeth.

This lynch that I want on you is not about me being right. It's about you lying through your teeth.

[LoudmouthLee]

I use it commonly in everyday venacular. It's a very common idiom. I do not have timestamped evidence of using it in a mafia game, but I use the term.

And pardon me for using a google search of LoudmouthLee and Lace to get that result.

In other words... feh.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I just reread you post again? Nothing you could do would make me change my mind?

Have you read my posts? There is DEFINITELY SOMETHING YOU COULD DO!

STOP DANCING AROUND THE ISSUE WITH MEANINGLESS APPEALS TO EMOTIONS AND CITE A TIMESTAMPED EXAMPLE OF YOU USING THE WORD "LACE" IN THAT CONTEXT.

I have even made it perfectly clear from post ONE when i began my attack EXACTLY what you needed to do to get me off your back and you have done EVERYTHING BUT THAT.

AND NOW TO COME BACK AND SHOOT OFF AT ME FOR "HAVING TO BE RIGHT" AND BEMOANING YOUR SITUATION FOR "Nothing I could say or do will make Pooky change his mind."!.

I am absolutely shocked by that post now that I read it over again, it's one thing that you try to cast me as a fanatic who doesn't look at facts but it's another when you say that you have NO WAY TO GET ME OFF YOUR BACK WHEN I HAVE MADE IT CLEAR FROM POST ONE HOW TO GET ME OFF YOUR BACK.


Oh and just for kicks.

You can't use a google search for "LoudMouthLee and Lace" to get that result.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... tnG=Search

[Sarcastro]

Pooky is so win.

[Talitha]

I think this is a classic example of a scum getting caught. Notch another one up for Pooky!

(Preview edit: Basically what Sarc said, but in 25+ words).

[Dragon Phoenix]

Alright, I finally admit that Pooky has a case. Although I still find the original link (tghe whole LACE XXYZZ thing) far fetched and not in character with mith's modding, LML's (lack of) defence has by now become telling.

Unvote MrBuddyLee

Vote LML

, MrBuddyLee, Sarcastro, Cogito Ergo Sum, [Gaspar, Tamuz], [IH, Logisticus, Pooky, Talitha, VitaminR, Zindaras], Foolinc, DP, no lynch

[MrBuddyLee]

My problems with this whole LML mess:

1. The use of "LACE" and "XYZZY" are way too obvious to be the killing method for an anti-town player, in my opinion.

2. The killing of xyzzy was not an optimal scum kill.

3. Odds are cubsfan was not a complete moron and thus LML is not likely scum according to the duel result. He's essentially an investigated innocent.

4. The nature of Thesp's and LML's interactions suggests they were not aligned.

5. The fervence with which some players are pressing this issue doesn't inspire me with confidence. Gaspar is scuzzy, Talitha, IH and Sarc are topping the Condorcet, and all of them seem thrilled to have this distraction sucking up time.

6. Other players are characteristically using the LML thing as an excuse to contribute next to nothing. CES is the most obvious but there are others who are skating.

[Mr. Grey]

Deadline:

Approximately 71 hours from this post.

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

LoudmouthLee: 6 (Sarcastro/Dani Banani, Dragon Phoenix, logicticus, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Tamuz)
Talitha: 2 (foolinc, Zindaras)
Mr. Grey: 2 (Gaspar, LoudmouthLee)
Sarcastro/Dani Banani: 1 (MrBuddyLee)
MrBuddyLee: 1 (VitaminR)

Current Condorcet Winner:

None. Current Smith Set: Cogito Ergo Sum, Sarcastro/Dani Banani, Dragon Phoenix, Gaspar, foolinc, IH, logicticus, LoudmouthLee, MrBuddyLee, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Tamuz, VitaminR, Zindaras, Mr. Grey

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[foolinc]

I am not in favor of the LML lynch at all. I'm not sure about the duel (Cubs needs a verbal lashing for his day 1 play), but since there isn't a reason for LMLscum to kill xyzzy (he was most likely going to be lynched) I can't support a LML today. I'm voting for Mr. Grey since: 1. I think LML is innocent 2. If Mr. Grey is in the game (and by all accounts he is), he has the advantage of not being able to answer questions and can't be caught in scummy situations like other players.

Vote: Mr. Grey,

Talitha, PookyTheMagicalBear, MrBuddyLee, [Sarcastro, Tamuz] [VitaminR, Dragon Phoenix], [Cogito Ergo Sum, logicticus], [Gaspar, Zindaras, IH], LoudmouthLee, no lynch, foolinc

[IH]

Oh shiz three days.

kay so here's a place holder vote until I can get a decent post up

NOTE:This will put LML at lynch -1

Vote:LML,

Mr. Grey, Talitha, Sarc, MBL

[Talitha]

That is the scummiest reason ever, foolinc. Basically you are saying 'I'm going to vote for the person who can't defend themself. why? Oh because they can't say anything!'

I'm incredibly suspicious of anyone who has Mr Grey high on their condorcet list for this very reason.