Mini 1781: Plotinus Mafia: Game Over

[Ircher]

Both. You don't get to brag about how good you are by OMGUSing when that's a path to hell. And you don't get to discredit my memory when it's right.

You need to scumhunt talk to me about other reads or die.

That Ircher vote is terrible.

1) Andro's earlier readlist which completely did not matchup with reads given 2 posts before
2) Andro has been all over the place it seems
3) Andro has been heavily using AtE
4) Andro decided to bring mod WIFOM in to this
5) Andro's claim could be useful to scum
6) I'm tired of the bickering, hollering, and screaming from the slot

[Ircher]

@Andro
If you were vengeful, who would you vengekill alongside your death rn?

[Ircher]

Why not?
Its not confirmed that they are scum.

[Ircher]

How? @RC

[Ircher]

@Andro
If you were vengeful, who would you vengekill alongside your death rn?

I'd have to think about that one for awhile. Off the top of my head, Iecerint or Titus. I still think you're town, RC I lean town on... Aristo I'd maybe consider. I reacted positively to them last night but mulling over it and rereading some parts I missed, I'm a bit wary of them possibly white knighting my slot. Gork I'm pretty sure is town. Not_Mafia.... eh, I really don't know where I stand on him ATM. Who am I forgetting?

~Nahdia

Maru I believe.

[Ircher]

He must not be definite (or maybe the situ isnt bad enough) cuz he hasnt fakeclaimed a guilty yet!

[Ircher]

@Titus
Since when has trying work with town been scummy? Not saying Andro is town, but if they are town, why should I refuse to listen or ask their opinions? If they are scum, we can simply dismiss much of what they say as WIFOM.

[Ircher]

@Titus I am not drunk. I think I already said something similar before in this thread.

If thats not what you mean, then you better clarify and elaborate, cuz thats my interpretation.

[Ircher]

You tunneled me like this in 1769 too! Pls stop Titus!

[Ircher]

@Titus I am not drunk. I think I already said something similar before in this thread.

If thats not what you mean, then you better clarify and elaborate, cuz thats my interpretation.

You blamed Nahdia for the rage AND suggested to lynch if she flipped town. Classic I'm going to mislynch and blame the leaders OR I am going to bus in the most doubtcasty way possible. Either way, that shit is scummy.

Well, scummy != scum.

And, one can argue that just about anything is scummy, depending on how you interpret it.

[Ircher]

But Im not. And you cannot force

your

playstyle on me. Just cuz I do things differently doesnt mean its wrong.

[Ircher]

No, thats forcing your playstyle on me. Just cuz you dont doesnt mean others dont.

[Ircher]

Like

I get that Ircher is ludicrous sometimes

but AB is still scum and please don't derail scum wagon ok?

That may be true though.

[Ircher]

@Ari
What did you make of it?

[Ircher]

I wonder what Andro will post. Im assuming they got some free time now.

[Ircher]

Nice.

I have nothing new to say, except I'm just not sure on a lot of slots.

Gork and RC are the only 2 I have very strong townreads on. Rosh is pretty close too.

PS: If RC ever fakeclaims a guilty, we should lynch tyat person immediately. If its a town flip, we lynch RC next.

[Ircher]

I've played with RC a few times. RC never fakeclaims guilties as town unless 1) He's 100% sure the person is scum and 2) The situation is desparate enough for such action.

[Ircher]

1) Not always, but he never fakeclaims if he has even a shadow of a doubt. He tends to be on point a lot though.
2) As fyi.

[Ircher]

ii) now, lets say RC is scum.
he now has the tools to either not fakeclaim if he doesnt want the heat.
or.
he has the tools to pivot around you and say "why would i have fakeguiltied as scum when you said that?"

i dont understand.
:/

I'm 97% sure RC is town this game. Again, if he lynches town that method, we kynch him next day, no Q's asked.

[Ircher]

i knowwwwwwww.
i just feel like it makes no sense regardless of what ircher's alignment is.
i really need meta for him.
if he has a standardized scumgame and its different from here then i can just turn off my brain at the weirdness.

No, I have no scumgames. I wish I did though.

I have plenty of towngames you can compare this to though.

[Ircher]

Somewhat.

Two games at a forum not dedicated to this in the "Fun and Games" section.

The first one was anonymous, closed setup, and I got both NK'd and Vigged in the same night (1-Shot BP) on N1. The other was open setup and I did ok, but lost as town.

Neither were particular long, maybe 750 posts combined.....

[Ircher]

http://forum.supercell.net/showthread.p ... ants+mafia

You have to be a member to view it (signup is free ofc), but I was a Town 1-Shot BP in that game too.

[Ircher]

In general, the above type posts are what contribute to my Rosh townread.

I might *ahem* try to work a little harder here; the interest in the game seemed to increase

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Mini 1781 - Ice ISO D2

1. 347 - Complains very loudly about why "everyone" kept mentioning smudger. -

Ranger was Smudger's slot, right? Either way, this is a way over-the-top reaction to a very small prick. I mean, Smudger was barely mentioned; Fire Assassin I believe was the top subject at the time. Scum are more likely to overreact than town about this stuff early in the game in my experience, so -

Very Scum-Indicative

2.

As of 492, it seems Ice's reads are as follow:
Town - Ice, Ircher, Gork, Maru
Neutral - Fire (As of 491), Rosh, NM, Ari, Andro, X, Dan (RC), Chamber (Ranger)
Scum - Minsc (Titus)

Meh, not much to say about these reads right now.... -

Null-Indicative

3. 670 - Reason for voting Dan and subsequent unvote and change to Minsc (Didn't want to vote lead wagon and wanted Dan to play) -

Not a huge issue, but why did you vote in the first place? No vote I think would've been acceptable.... -

Null-Indicative

So many 1/2 liners....... Right now, I'm leaning towards not lynching Ice; I just don't think there's enough in this ISO to argue either way.

[Ircher]

While individual points may lean one way or another, I have to think about how the entire ISO is.

You have your good points, but I think that the bad points (primarily concerning the claims) outweigh it. Furthermore, even if you are town, your lynch would benefit us more than lynching Ice if Ice is town. Your ISO is heavy defending and AtE.

Ice's iso is a lot of 1 or 2 liners that are generally null. There ARE a few quelms I have with it that I did specify in the spoiler cuz it didn't really apply to one post, but when I think about it on the whole, I just don't see a very strong case to be made for scum Ice. The one thing I noted as very scum indicative is imho the only thing that strongly points to Ice scum. The rest just is null.

I'll bring up the other issues I have though:
1) Ice seems to express some strong reads on some people like myself and Maru, yet never really give strong elaborations on why.
2) A lot of his stances seem to be "on the sidelines"; I cannot tell if his lack of strong reads is result of general confusion/etc or if it is a scum perspective.

Ice would be the kind of guy who if I were a cop, I would investigate, but not the kind of person I'd support a lynch on right now cuz I feel there are better alternatives.

@Ari
Umm.... Like ya know, who my vote is currently on, Andro...... Seems a stupid question to be asking me.

[Ircher]

Town - Ircher, Gork, RC, Rosh
Town-Lean - Ari, Maru (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for his tunnel on me; still waiting for more extensive reads on other players)
Neutral - NM, Ice
Scum-Lean - Titus, Fire (Something seems off about him... Not really sure here tbh)
Scum - Andro (AtE, Claim hijinks, etc)

[Ircher]

No, I said you're a good info lynch regardless of alignment.

[Ircher]

1) Tracker can be town or scum, esp. in a game like this
2) The role mixup about Tracker/Watcher and deciding to use it in an attempt for towncred
3) The most alarming and yet also the thing that works best in your favor is your comment about your target: It makes no sense for scum to track their night kill. Point 2) though makes me think you are fake-claiming.

[Ircher]

Ice has been lurking, that's true. Nonetheless, I dont think he's a good lynch right now. I would look at him more D3.

If you were town: I would also look at Titus and Fire tbh. RC, I'd still prob. see as town.

I don't think Andro/Titus/Someone is the scumteam tbh.

The people who haven't been wagoned at all really are Ari, Rosh, and NM I believe. That's suspicious, since 2 of the e aren't contributing much (actually all 3 aren't)

[Ircher]

List of Problems with Andro:

1) Claim -- I don't buy it. Either 1) You are fakeclaiming entirely or 2) You fakeclaimed your target. If it were 3) You are a tracker and you did target Ranger, then that makes you auto-town, but you have no way to prove that.
2) Heavy use of AtE -- While AtE isn't AI always, the excessive use of it just didn't read as town AtE to me. Some of it did, but most of it didnt.
3) Inconsistent Reads -- At one point, you put down current thoughts on players. 2 posts later, you put down a readlist that is rather inconsistent with what you said in the previous post. Hard to believe that was authentic (though it is possible it is an honest mistake)
4) Heavy defending; no scumhunting. Though, it looks like the slot is trying now
5) I feel most confident in this lynch right now. I'm not quite so much "on the fence" as I have been with previous wagons. I feel there is a good chance of scum and a decent case to be made.
6) RC backs this wagon. I heavily townread RC right now.
7) Regardless of alignment, this is a good info lynch imo. The only other good info lynch is Titus.

[Ircher]

I looked into the Ice iso myself. I already listed my problems with it and why I dont think its one of the better lynches right now.

Pedit: Cuz Ice has very little content and hasnt interacted a lot.

[Ircher]

Thats not the argument; you're asking about info lynches.

[Ircher]

Info Lynches are best on those who interact the most imo.

Maybe I'm being biased here, I might reconsider.

[Ircher]

Iec Iso, abridged.

Spoiler: Some posts about Gork

I wonder which of Radja and Titus is responsible for the BG reference. ^^

Both my hydras share interests

P.s. I am drunk...

Someone show me a good case

I think Gorkinger is maybe scum among the active players.

It's a mystery among the others.

I am worried about both of these players right now, and Maruchan is still having me cautious but I don't think my read on them is as strong on them as before.

Dear lord. Lord-Gorkington is leading the wagon on them, and I *still* want to join it.

1. I really dislike his approach to Gorki here. He seems to be passively discrediting him, but he hasn't laid down a case at all and seems to just want this slot to be untrusted. This was the first thing that set me off about Iec

.

im a prat.
it doesnt mean that my reads are off the mark though.
q.q

Actually I like your reads a lot, I just think you might be scum because you spent some time casting dispersions on ppl who're probably town (e.g., Ircher shortly after replacing Davsto). It read like you were trying to reduce an [accurate] group town read secondary to the replacement, but I think my attitude toward him was like "whatever we don't have to mess with this puzzle as much now."

I mean tbh I don't want to lynch you at all tho because at least you're postin and it's not bullshit.

2. This is also just bad.
"Hey, you're scum because of your pushes even though I agree with your reads. I really don't feel like trying to push you though, because you're active, so I'm gonna back down here."

So, Iec, who are the scum?

FireAssassin or Gorkilord, likely not both.

I think that's the only scum among the active players. I went back and forth on NotMafia as I read, pretty sure I ended up on town because of a particular post that I can't recall IIRC. That's the only other active player I significantly entertained whom I didn't mention I think.

3. Again with the Gork and FA pushes he hasn't followed through on. Why can you not commit, Iec?? If you have these two as scum, then make a vote! If you aren't even going to push a case on them, then why are you trying to get others to??

Why the fuck do people keep mentioning Smudger?

I kept being like "I need to go back and see why everyone is obsessed with them because I didn't even notice his posts."

HE HAS TWO POSTS. TWO SENTENCES.

4. Weird, over the top overdefensiveness towards Smudger. Noted.

And ya, FA is pretty vapid but is kinda dishonest about it.
da
I don't want to end the day yet tho and I'm concerned that my vote + rhetoric will do that.

Unvote; Vote: ActionDan

Therefore, I will vote for ActionDaniel.

5. This post is also shit. We ended the day early anyway, and he voted for absolutely no reason when he actually had a reason to believe FA was scum. Like, WTF is this!?

Where is Smudger? He's disappeared.

VOTE: Icerint

He never DISAPPEARED.

He was just NEVER IN THE GAME.

Despite being the TALK OF THE TOWN.

But I have no idea what to make of it.

6. I almost think this is scum showing annoyance at an inactive buddy.

I'm halfway through and glazing over :S
Gonna power through!

Hey IEC, why no comments for me?

Uh. Does this mean for Titus? Maybe cuz Radja is signing his?

You guys are kinda a non-entity for me so far other than that I noticed some posts that Radja signed. Probably leaning scum for your slot tbh but Radja is my secret MS crush, so I'm trying my best to overlook it.

7. This is literally a post for the sake of posting.
The read ends up at null, but it sure looks like he's being productive!

I support order over chaos this month, so I am opposed to quicklynches.

8. Yet is on wagon at L-1 and not unvoting.

I skipped mentioning a few posts because it's a lot. Scum slot though.

VOTE: Iec

1) I feel the problem Ice had with Gork was Ice was scumreading Gork, but as time went by, he started having doubts and also like the Fire wagon for his own reasons
2) I'll think on that point.
3) That is an issue though not sure if it is just lazy/confused town or scum pushing ML's.
4) I noted this in my review too. Imo, it is the worst thing in the entire ISO.
5) That point is debatable. I didn't get that vibe from it, but it depends on perspective.
6) This point is invalid by association: Ranger was NK'd and was in Smudger's slot, so Ranger obviously couldn't be Ice's buddy. It does reinforce the feeling gained from point 4 though and could be read as White-Knighting, but that isn't neccessarily AI.
7) Isn't that... Like the entire ISO? This is something that should be metadived tbh.
8) Good point; I didnt read the post's context.

[Ircher]

OMGUS:
VOTE: Titus

No, seriously, that jump is bad. This is why I probably just shouldn't post.

VOTE: Andro
Like this lynch better still.

[Ircher]

I looked into the Ice iso myself. I already listed my problems with it and why I dont think its one of the better lynches right now.

Pedit: Cuz Ice has very little content and hasnt interacted a lot.

This standard gets the current site meta that is shit.

Town who contribute and try to scumhunt get lynched if they have unpopular opinions and then get discarded because they were scummy to try.

Scum who lurk don't provide info are terrible information lynches and thus get away.

You know, that's exactly why lurkers are a pain-in-a-neck.

Previous Games: Point out people who are lurking and going after the easy mislynches. Get scumread for going after "Low Hanging Fruit"
This Game: Try to get scumreads not based on activity.... Not working too well and still getting scumread either for a lack of an opinion or a "contradictory" opinion.

This is my town game, and this is normal from me. Stop treating everything I say as scum.

Scummy != Scum.

[Ircher]

Really, Ircher, just what information would we get from a Nahdia lynch that we wouldn't get from an Iec lynch? Both have massive wagons. Both have about half the game split and lynching Iec would possibly mean saving a town tracker.

Alright. I give. I'm wrong on the info lynch asopect.

But my other points still stand.

[Ircher]

Semantics discussions suck!

[Ircher]

Scummy != Scum.

Town do scummy stuff too; in fact, more oft, as scum try to be more catious.

[Ircher]

Anyway, you cant lynch me.

[Ircher]

As to conforming: Well, to an extent, I am. Cuz if I dont, no one will listen. Period. (Or I get scumread.) The site meta here really sucks.

[Ircher]

Scummy != Scum.

Town do scummy stuff too; in fact, more oft, as scum try to be more catious.

Heed

your own advice, and re-read my ISO.

~Nahdia

EBWOP sigh spelling is freaking HARD

Specifically I'm referring to the "inconsistent reads" thing from beeboy you're trying to push my slot on. If scum is generally more cautious, doesn't that mean what beeboy did is actually more likely to come from town?

~Nahdia

Unfortunately, there's also WIFOM.

Ok, suppose you are town, and we lynch Ice and suppose he flips town. Who would you investigate?

[Ircher]

Scummy != Scum.

Town do scummy stuff too; in fact, more oft, as scum try to be more catious.

Head your own advice, and re-read my ISO.

~Nahdia

I'll be honest: I haven't read the ISO yet today. I probably should.

[Ircher]

Scummy != Scum.

Town do scummy stuff too; in fact, more oft, as scum try to be more catious.

Heed

your own advice, and re-read my ISO.

~Nahdia

EBWOP sigh spelling is freaking HARD

Specifically I'm referring to the "inconsistent reads" thing from beeboy you're trying to push my slot on. If scum is generally more cautious, doesn't that mean what beeboy did is actually more likely to come from town?

~Nahdia

Actually, I buy that argument.

[Ircher]

UNVOTE:
I gotta think about this.

[Ircher]

Alright. Ive reconsidered.

In fairness, we DONT want to risk lynching a town pr tonight. Furthermore, since I can buy the argument about the inconsistent reads, and since AtE is used frequently by both alignments, it's really null, regardless the amount. Therefore, I no longer have a case for an Andro lynch, and so cannot support it.

On the other hand, the more I think about it, the more suspicious Ice is, and since there IS a decent case there, I CAN support such a lynch.

So, as ot stands, I'd lynch Ice right now. I have no clue as to buddies though.

(My vote, if I placed it, would be l-1 I believe, so I wont vote yet)

[Ircher]

Would anyone have a problem with ending the day right now?

[Ircher]

@Titus
You can sort me D3.

[Ircher]

On behalf of everyone: no

This feels wrong. Why do you want to emd the day so much, NM?

[Ircher]

I dont think Fire wants the day to end yet, so unfortunately, Im not gonna vote and risk it. He specifically unvoted cuz he was weekend V/la

[Ircher]

Because the last few (rl) days have been like 2 dozen pages of aimless unproductive spam

And you're coasting right on through.

How bout engaging with people... Or at least share opinions beside your top scumread.

[Ircher]

@Ice : You are practically L-1. Now is the time to claim.

[Ircher]

Ircher, Maruchan, Aristophanes
Fire Assassin, Gorkington, androgybee
Roshar, Titus, RadiantCowbells
Iecerint

Hmmm now that I look at things I have too many town reads

Maybe ciuz you're one of the mafia?

[Ircher]

No, there was inconsistent stuff; other people noticed too

[Ircher]

@Ice
There is a case against you, you know?

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ice
Still like this lynch:

L-1

unless I'm mistaken (definitely not a hammer)

[Ircher]

Someone should hammer.

[Ircher]

Hammer away! Ice already refused to claim when I asked earlier. (He just ignored me)

[Ircher]

@Ice : You are practically L-1. Now is the time to claim.

like, youre calling andro scum, but also simultaneously justifying their lynch because of info.
like.
i dont care about info.
info comes from any lynch.
moreso, info comes from pushing lynches.
an iece push with any significant backbone will give information.
there are people resistant to the wagon.
slow to jump on.
people ignoring it.

plenty of information.
super questionable that youre ignoring it just because of an apparent lack of information, especially since ari posted a case.

Good, my town feels are coming back.

Huh? They left?

@Ice
There is a case against you, you know?

Cases are bullshit. The point of cases is that they can give insight into how a person is thinking about the game.

Titus mad a IecTown case at a time when it was inessential to her earlier today. Nothing has changed since that time AFAIK.

If you're saying that Titus made or explicitly endorsed a case at some point after that and I missed it, ya that would help me interpret what's up. But otherwise, nah.

[Ircher]

See, completely ignored me. I already told him he was practically L-1; I just made that the case with my vote yesterday; yet still no claim. So, Ice is scum.

[Ircher]

ircher.
if youre town.
theres literally no reason to rush a hammer.

we're going to be sitting in night cycle waiting for a maru replacement.
an iece claim could change gamestate, and no him not having claimed yet is not a scumclaim.
i dont understand why people act like things that arent scumclaims are scumclaims.
-.-

Meh. Ok, we can wait, since Maru still needs a replacement.

[Ircher]

Whom.... Who to nk N2

JK

[Ircher]

I think I'll NK _________

[Ircher]

^H

_e

l

l

^o

[rev]Wo[/rev]r[rev]ld[/rev]

Pedit: Messing around

[Ircher]

^H

_e

l

l

^o

World

Pedit: Messing around

Ugh......

[Ircher]

1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a I should stop

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ice

Hammer + 1

[Ircher]

Does this begin prior to him being scum read/pressured?

was confident before the RC/andro shouting match.
got less confident as that was happening because i thought RC might be scum.
now im just kind of a blob on the ground trying to pretend to know whats going on.

RC is town til LyLo, ok, thanks.

[Ircher]

Iecerint/Roshar?

As scumteam?

[Ircher]

stop being meme please.
this game is bloated enough without shitposting.

But I'm 97% sure RC is town.....

[Ircher]

Go ahead

@Gork
You have to have a little fun.....
PS: It wasn't a meme.....

Pedit:

YIPEE!!!

[Ircher]

quick scum tell me who ur killing so i can track them

-Nahdia

We're killing Ari

[Ircher]

If it's not, ______________________________________

[Ircher]

Isn't that a watcher role?

hahhahhahhhhhhhhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahhh
ahaahahahhh
ahaha
ha
[gross sobbing]

-nahdia

??

[Ircher]

Dont ignore the town rb next time. RC was conf scum.

[Ircher]

I RBd you N1; made it very clear by thinking you were very likely town cuz ai didnt know there was an SK. There was only 1 kill N1; -why did people just drop it as soon as you say like 10 words disuting the notion?

[Ircher]

No, cuz town ignored me. I nearly blocked the SK N2.

[Ircher]

I was naive enough to assumesingle faction, but I planned to fullclaim role and results N3.

[Ircher]

If it were announced, RC would've likely gotten lynched.

[Ircher]

Why was I ignored? Completely?

[Ircher]

basically though scum here won more because of a really commitment town than A+ scumgames all around. like, i still have no freakign clue what ircher is talking about lol.

I roleblocked RC N1. Hence the single kill.....

[Ircher]

Yeah.... RC basically silenced me.....

[Ircher]

Perfect.
I am a role cop.
I targeted Gorkington N1: he's a Compulsive Music Vendor. Note that he never claimed the compulsive part.
So I wasn't fucking roleblocked whatever shit NM wants to throw.

Last night I targeted Fire Assassin. He's a 1-shot executioner.
So basically confirmed scum at this point.

VOTE: Fire Assassin

Since when has rolecop been primarily a town role?

You guys literally just assumed "Oh, RC is an investigative.... Conf town!"

[Ircher]

Im pretty sure RC is town this game.

Ircher's first post after night 1, where there was only one kill

RC claim

NM shoulda pushed this. RC literally claims Role Cop and this gets ignored. Why?

[Ircher]

I guess I did the same thing in Mini 1755 to RC, but I dare to say that my N1 RB was a bit more obvious as it would clearly explain my RC almost conftown read D2 since I assumed single faction.

[Ircher]

RC was read as town in general p, but RC claims Role Cop and directly disputes my RB and everyone decides to ignore me from then on out. That was poor.

[Ircher]

In other words, they blindly trusted RC without even trying to think through what would make sense.

Pedit: How?

[Ircher]

@Davsto
When you soft-claimed, you kinda painted a target on my back foor mafia.

I imagine they tried to kill me N1; definitely did so N2 after getting RB'd by me!

[Ircher]

That wouldve been nice!

[Ircher]

Why didnt yall try to redirect me?

[Ircher]

And why redirect FA? He has a day ability that he already claimed.....

[Ircher]

Nonetheless, I kinda feel town was weak cuz of that redirection role being so strong.

[Ircher]

Even if I knew RC was confscum cuz it was multifaction, I wouldn't've targeted RC again. You have to remember, everyone thought it was single faction until the two flips N2.