Mini 1781: Plotinus Mafia: Game Over

[Ircher]

While individual points may lean one way or another, I have to think about how the entire ISO is.

You have your good points, but I think that the bad points (primarily concerning the claims) outweigh it. Furthermore, even if you are town, your lynch would benefit us more than lynching Ice if Ice is town. Your ISO is heavy defending and AtE.

Ice's iso is a lot of 1 or 2 liners that are generally null. There ARE a few quelms I have with it that I did specify in the spoiler cuz it didn't really apply to one post, but when I think about it on the whole, I just don't see a very strong case to be made for scum Ice. The one thing I noted as very scum indicative is imho the only thing that strongly points to Ice scum. The rest just is null.

I'll bring up the other issues I have though:
1) Ice seems to express some strong reads on some people like myself and Maru, yet never really give strong elaborations on why.
2) A lot of his stances seem to be "on the sidelines"; I cannot tell if his lack of strong reads is result of general confusion/etc or if it is a scum perspective.

Ice would be the kind of guy who if I were a cop, I would investigate, but not the kind of person I'd support a lynch on right now cuz I feel there are better alternatives.

@Ari
Umm.... Like ya know, who my vote is currently on, Andro...... Seems a stupid question to be asking me.

[Ircher]

Town - Ircher, Gork, RC, Rosh
Town-Lean - Ari, Maru (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for his tunnel on me; still waiting for more extensive reads on other players)
Neutral - NM, Ice
Scum-Lean - Titus, Fire (Something seems off about him... Not really sure here tbh)
Scum - Andro (AtE, Claim hijinks, etc)

[Gorkington]

if theyre town we lose a tracker??
i dont understand.

[Gorkington]

Scum - Andro (AtE, Claim hijinks, etc)

ughhh ircherrrrrrr.
why is it so hard to follow where your reads are coming from q.q

[androgybee]

My ISO is heavy defending because I got wagoned to L-1 and had to save my slot -_- forgive me for being defensive when, you know, I'm being attacked. I took step back and actually analyzed the game afterwards.

Bad points concerning the claims? What about our claim is bad to you? We're a tracker..? Do you need us to talk more on our decisions or...? You didn't mention this at all when you were doing your ISO catchups, from what I can see.

~Nahdia

[Ether]

Day 2, Votecount 27

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4 androgybee (RadiantCowbells, Ircher, Titus, Iecerint)
4 Iecerint (Aristophanes, Not_Mafia, androgybee, Roshar)

3 Unvote (Fire Assassin, Gorkington, Maruchan)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
The deadline is in (expired on 2016-05-02 18:00:00), or on Monday, May 2nd at 6:00 pm EDT.

---

[androgybee]

AtE isn't always scum, it comes from either alignment. I apologize if it got excessive but I was kind of being very seriously closed in on and my instinct was to lash out and see what sticks. I know it's futile and doesn't help anything but that's just where my mind went. I was frustrated that I was being wagoned.

~Nahdia

[androgybee]

Ircher are you just saying if I'm town lynching us is good because we suck or something? I've been trying to solve the game, Iecerint has lurked entirely by your own admission. What the hell, dude?

~Nahdia

[androgybee]

None of what you're saying makes sense and I want you to switch your vote. I'm serious. I'm looking at your points and logically, they're all just flat wrong or bad. Help me help you. What do you need from me to address your concern with "claim hijinks". Reading me based on AtE I disagree with on principle but I can accept if that's how your playing, but your other points are just backwards and I don't understand what's up with you.

~Nahdia

[Ircher]

No, I said you're a good info lynch regardless of alignment.

[androgybee]

Lynching people in order to get associations is bad. Here's an idea; accept that I'm town and work from there. If I were to flip town today, how would your reads change? Change your reads in that manner, because I'm town.

~Nahdia

[Ircher]

1) Tracker can be town or scum, esp. in a game like this
2) The role mixup about Tracker/Watcher and deciding to use it in an attempt for towncred
3) The most alarming and yet also the thing that works best in your favor is your comment about your target: It makes no sense for scum to track their night kill. Point 2) though makes me think you are fake-claiming.

[androgybee]

There was no "decision to use it for towncred". Beeboy noticed it about our role PM and it came up in the thread that he wanted to ask the mod about it before anyone tried to hammer since we could have a guilty. The discussion was organic.

~Nahdia

[Gorkington]

distressing that i feel uncomfortable with andro still.

[Ircher]

Ice has been lurking, that's true. Nonetheless, I dont think he's a good lynch right now. I would look at him more D3.

If you were town: I would also look at Titus and Fire tbh. RC, I'd still prob. see as town.

I don't think Andro/Titus/Someone is the scumteam tbh.

The people who haven't been wagoned at all really are Ari, Rosh, and NM I believe. That's suspicious, since 2 of the e aren't contributing much (actually all 3 aren't)

[Gorkington]

andro/titus probably arent scum together. sure.

ari has been contributing enough.
rosh is also contributing a decent amount lately.

infolynching at this stage over hunting for scum is really strange ircher.
:/

[androgybee]

I hate that you want to use my flip to further your own reads. How egotistical can you get. I'm a player with reads too ya know -_-' Our slot is town and lynching me for information hurts town way more than it helps...

~Nahdia

[Gorkington]

like, youre calling andro scum, but also simultaneously justifying their lynch because of info.
like.
i dont care about info.
info comes from any lynch.
moreso, info comes from pushing lynches.
an iece push with any significant backbone will give information.
there are people resistant to the wagon.
slow to jump on.
people ignoring it.

plenty of information.
super questionable that youre ignoring it just because of an apparent lack of information, especially since ari posted a case.

[Ircher]

List of Problems with Andro:

1) Claim -- I don't buy it. Either 1) You are fakeclaiming entirely or 2) You fakeclaimed your target. If it were 3) You are a tracker and you did target Ranger, then that makes you auto-town, but you have no way to prove that.
2) Heavy use of AtE -- While AtE isn't AI always, the excessive use of it just didn't read as town AtE to me. Some of it did, but most of it didnt.
3) Inconsistent Reads -- At one point, you put down current thoughts on players. 2 posts later, you put down a readlist that is rather inconsistent with what you said in the previous post. Hard to believe that was authentic (though it is possible it is an honest mistake)
4) Heavy defending; no scumhunting. Though, it looks like the slot is trying now
5) I feel most confident in this lynch right now. I'm not quite so much "on the fence" as I have been with previous wagons. I feel there is a good chance of scum and a decent case to be made.
6) RC backs this wagon. I heavily townread RC right now.
7) Regardless of alignment, this is a good info lynch imo. The only other good info lynch is Titus.

[Gorkington]

why is iece not a good infolynch.
i dont get it.

[Ircher]

I looked into the Ice iso myself. I already listed my problems with it and why I dont think its one of the better lynches right now.

Pedit: Cuz Ice has very little content and hasnt interacted a lot.

[Gorkington]

and ive just talked about why thats stupid.

[Gorkington]

titus hasnt really interacted all that much either.
should we lynch me because ive interacted with a lot of people?

[Ircher]

Thats not the argument; you're asking about info lynches.

[Ircher]

Info Lynches are best on those who interact the most imo.

Maybe I'm being biased here, I might reconsider.