Fritz's Fav Fictional Figures Faction Fest - Game over

[YagamiLight]

Why don't you tell me why you asked him to claim? He was the one you were voting for, what would you think if I were voting him, and turned around and asked you to claim? Of course your going to ask who you claimed. And why don't you ask yourself why you asked him to claim without enough votes. None of us know exactly what you were thinking, we can just use educated guesses, and tak what you say, both have a chance of being entirely wrong as scum lie, and like I said we don't know what you were thinking. Thats my argument against you right now anyways, that you asked him to claim with so few votes.

[Sarcastro]

So in other words, you have no idea how to answer my perfectly valid questions, so you're just going to say that you don't know what was going through my head, so you'll assume that it was something scummy. No, Yagami, if you can't decide why scum would do something, maybe that means it's not a scumtell!

Look, I'm not going to hold it against you if you just admit that you jumped to conclusions. I've been wrong about people many times because I thought it was scummy that they called something a scumtell without actually having a reason for scum to do it, so I realise now that it's not really scummy; it's just a mistake. Please don't stick to your mistake if you realise that it's a mistake, which I'm really hoping you do.

[ibaesha]

So Blight's a lyncher of Sarc?

Can't think of any other reason why Sarc specifically would dislike Blight's claim.

YL: Sarc's being a pain in the ass. It's obvious... blatantly obvious. I don't see how anyone could believe that Sarc seriously -expected- Blight to claim. I mean, he'd have to be deluded if he thought that. Pushing for a claim at 3 votes is ridiculous. Even Sarc knows it's ridiculous, as we can see by the dripping sarcasm in his last post. Now, if you think being ridiculous is scummy, then your vote is in a good place, but the whole 'asking for a claim so early' thing is a 'scum tell' is just silliness.

[UltimaAvalon]

*Grabs some popcorn and starts reading every one of Sarcs posts in this game. Not because I'm looking for scummieness, or for a pbpa, but simply because they amuse me greatly*

Also, everything Sarc says is true. Why it took an entire page of Blight and Sarc saying the eaxact same things is beyond me.

[YagamiLight]

Sarc, you completely misunderstood my last post, though rereading it I don't see it possible for it to be understood correctly. I have no idea how to word what I was trying to say, but I am going to try and word it better.
For my first point, I was saying of course your going to choose him to ask. It would have made no sense for you to be voting him, and then turn around and ask me to claim.
My second point was that you asked me why you did what I see as a scum tell in the first place. In which my point is that I see no pro-town reason to do so, only scummy. Also that, in this game, you only

truly

know a few things, and you have to use these to find the scum. I went on with this point to say try and say that there is no way to really know for sure what a player was thinking when he does something scummy, while he lives. Should you lynch him and he comes up scum, it is most likely the reasons stated by the town, and if he comes up town, they were probably the reasons he stated.

@ibaesha: I;m sorry, I'm horribly bad at sarcasm and always have been, I'll just let you guys know now. If it truly was sarcastic , well okay. But I have to disagree with you, as I already pointed out in this post, I only see scummy reasons to ask for the claim.

[UltimaAvalon]

I only see scummy reasons to ask for the claim.

That just means you are either very closed minded, or scum. In fact, Sudden Pressure to claim for little reason is probably the most pro-town thing anyone can ever do ever.

Why?

It catches the scum in question off guard, and any hesitancy can be directly translated to "I haven't come up with a good fakeclaim yet".

[YagamiLight]

It may catch them off guard, but I see everyone as respnding the same way, by refusing to claim. There no reason for him to claim if there is little reason.

[YagamiLight]

EBWODP
Basically, I never see that as being useful, because town wouldn't claim, and neither would scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MOS, you've been scum in every game. Every experience I have had with you has been when you are scum. Your comment about yesterday's wagon is par for the course of other comments you made in other games, as scum. Rememebr when you jokingly claimed cop in Maf. 61, bussing yoru buddy?? That recent comment was on the same lines.

My "claim" in Mafia 61 was a complete joke in response to something

you

, the protown tracker, set up. The fact that my scumbuddy happened to be the target of my joke was random. At that point in the day, I couldn't even remember why I was attacking him. I just voted him earlier in the day and stuck my vote there because it would look like I was being productive without having to actually contribute. I had no idea that my joke claim would cause acfan to bug out like that and get lynched as my scumbuddy. The factors surrounding that incident were completely unknown to me at the time.

On top of that, it would probably be a good idea to look closely at some of the people on yesterday's lynch wagon. I had a lot of fun getting a lynch that quickly, but even I have to admit there were probably multiple scum on it.

My recent comment was nothing AT ALL along those lines. First and foremost, it was not a joke. I am serious that there are probably scum on the Jordan wagon yesterday. Cuz...DUH. He was quicklynched on D5 by a majority of the players. How could there not be scum on it? What I said is common sense, but it's not something that people were doing, so I pointed it out. I fail to see ANY connection AT ALL between that comment and my joking fake claim that HAPPENED to get my scumbuddy lynched in Mafia 61.

If you are town in THIS game, then I will take that into account in future games.

It's not that I

should

know how you act as town, it's that I have never seen how you act as town.

It's not like there aren't plenty of examples where I am town. The majority of games I've played have me as town. Just read one of them. Heck, I was town in Kingmaker, you were in that game. I was also town in Consulmaker. And Evolution mafia. The lists goes on. It's only your own laziness that is leading you to make ill-formed opinions about me. One joke fake claim that has NOTHING to do with how I've acted this game is not enough evidence for you to claim that I am scum. In fact, it's a ridiculous assertion and I wonder why you would make such a clearly wrong claim.

[ibaesha]

^^ gives me pro-town MoS vibes. Just sayin'.

[Mastermind of Sin]

<3 teh ibbz0r

[Glork]

I've got a reason you'd potentially do it as scum, Sarc.

By going competely over the top with this whole charade, you've obfuscated the fact that, up until this attack on Blight, you've hardly substantiated any of the (many, many) baseless accusations you've made.




There.

[Sarcastro]

Sarc, you completely misunderstood my last post, though rereading it I don't see it possible for it to be understood correctly. I have no idea how to word what I was trying to say, but I am going to try and word it better.
For my first point, I was saying of course your going to choose him to ask. It would have made no sense for you to be voting him, and then turn around and ask me to claim.
My second point was that you asked me why you did what I see as a scum tell in the first place. In which my point is that I see no pro-town reason to do so, only scummy. Also that, in this game, you only

truly

know a few things, and you have to use these to find the scum. I went on with this point to say try and say that there is no way to really know for sure what a player was thinking when he does something scummy, while he lives. Should you lynch him and he comes up scum, it is most likely the reasons stated by the town, and if he comes up town, they were probably the reasons he stated.

Okay, I guess I see what you're trying to say, but it doesn't really answer my question.

Why didn't I ask Cephrir to claim, Yagami? If I just wanted anyone to claim, Cephrir seems like he would have been a better choice.

It's not about pro-town or scummy, Yagami. I don't think that my claim talk was pro-town, but that doesn't mean that it's scummy. If you can't explain to me why I'd do it as scum (either consciously or unconsciously), then how can you just assert that it's scummy? I realise that it

seems instinctively scummy

, but if you can't give a logical reason for it to be scummy, you can't just decide that it is.

Also, is that last sentence advocating a Blight lynch? Because that would definitely be a good idea and a better use for your vote.

[ibaesha]

Glork, out of curiousity, what do you think of what Sarc's done here? Your last post seems kind of like throwing fuel on the fire, but not really a true accusation. I just ask this because I've known you to spend some time in games throwing about baseless accusations. Sarc seems to have taken such behavior to a much higher level, but it is still very similar.

[YagamiLight]

If you read my post there is a reason for scum to do so, it could give them a power role to remove from the game.

Also, I gave reason for why you chose Blight, you were currently voting him. And why would Ceph have been a better choice? He is even with Blight, and would only be at 5 (unless my counts off, I'm pretty sure he would be at 5 or 4 though) if you voted him. That's no better. And finally, nope, that last post had been talking about no one in particular, just an anonymous player

[Sarcastro]

So your contention is now that I came up with and decided to execute this plan at some random point during the day, after I'd already switched my vote to Blight?

Yagami, this keeps getting more and more ridiculous. Even if I accept your reasoning for why I picked Blight, that still doesn't explain why I couldn't have just waited for some more people to vote for him.

Are you sure you don't want to just reconsider your whole thought process here? This seems like a clear case of picking a conclusion and then trying to justify it.

[YagamiLight]

You wouldn't wait for more people, because then it would be more productive for scum to attempt to get him lynched then to get him to claim and decide if he was worth a NK.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Am I the only person whose eyes glaze over whenever I see a post from the Sarc/YagamiLight argument?

[UltimaAvalon]

@MoS: No

[Sarcastro]

You wouldn't wait for more people, because then it would be more productive for scum to attempt to get him lynched then to get him to claim and decide if he was worth a NK.

And that doesn't seem at all tenuous to you? If this is such a good strategy, why don't more people do it? Why have I never done it before? Why would I go through all that effort for such a tiny reward? Come on, Yagami. Think about this for a minute.

And yeah, MoS, I don't really blame you. You could help shorten it by voting for Blight, though.

[YagamiLight]

What do you mean why don't people do it? It is done, scum role fish to find power roles.

[JDodge]

Am I the only person whose eyes glaze over whenever I see a post from the Sarc/YagamiLight argument?

I die a little inside each time I read one

[Blight]

The only explanation you've made is that I'm "obviously scum". Hate to break it to you, but that's not an explanation. It's a statement with no real backing. You only just a couple posts ago said that my case against Theo was weak. Everything else is "You're obviously sum. Claim, please."

That's great, except that you have an incredibly selective memory. How about this:

So, yeah. You've blatantly mischaracterised me in an attempt to fabricate a reason to get your vote off of someone you now realise was not a good target at all and onto someone you think you can lynch more easily. Good luck with that.

First off, that was after your vote on me, which actually shows that

you're

the one that voted for me and are coming up with reasons afterwards.

Second off, the whole post seemed more like you defending yourself than creating an arguement against me. Actually, the majority of your more thought out posts seem to be when you're defending yourself rather than building a case against someone else.

Thirdly, when did I mischaracterize you? You

were

fishing for a claim. Whether you call it "role-fishing" or "blatantly demanding a claim" doesn't matter. You wanted me to claim. You never made it clear why I was scum, and you even admitted that. And you have been jumping on any and every BW. So, I ask again, how did I mischaracterize you?

Okay, what part did I make up? The part where you want to lynch me for not claiming fast enough or the part where you think I should be lynched for not claiming fast enough?

What are you talking about? When did I say that? I never said I wanted to lynch you for not claiming fast enough. Again, don't put words into my mouth. And why did you repeat basically the same thing phrased two slightly different ways?

Sigh, let me quote it again.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

And again.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

And again, in case you missed it the last couple times.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

How am I putting words in your mouth, again?

You ask me to claim. You think I should be lynched because I'm not "thinking up a fakeclaim fast enough". But, yeah, you're not actually expecting something to come of it.

Yes, I demanded a claim. No, I never said anything even resembling your second assertion. Please stop twisting my words, or, if you honestly think that's what I said, please read more carefully.

Please refer to the quotes above. And, if you keep denying it, please refer to the quotes above. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Oh yeah, and you

still

haven't given me a good reason I would do it as scum. Because I actually think Blight is going to claim? Because I'm desperate to get a claim from Blight specifically? Because I need the claim right away for my special daykilling roll? Why wouldn't I just wait until a bigger bandwagon builds up on Blight or someone else?

Seriously, people, think about

why

scum would do something before you vote someone for no reason. I demanded a claim because I'm being an overly-aggressive bastard, like Ibby said. It still says nothing about my alignment.

Also, I just re-read my posts and realised that I didn't actually even ask for a claim until Blight accused me of doing so. Blight's initial vote on me was simply an overreaction to me asking him why he hadn't claimed yet, which is even more obviously not a real attempt to get him to claim. Just thought that was worth pointing out.

I've already given you reasons why it's scummy and not pro-town. Truth is, we don't know why you'd want me to claim so early. It's just a big WIFOM arguement waiting to happen. But, I just don't see any reason for a pro-town player to want someone to claim so early.

And, yeah, you asked me why I haven't claimed yet. Now you're just getting nit-picky. The phrase still implies that you want me to claim, and you've even said that you "demanded that I claim". I know you're going to say that I'm putting words in your mouth again, so I'll save you the time and just bring up this quote now.

Yes, I demanded a claim

. No, I never said anything even resembling your second assertion. Please stop twisting my words, or, if you honestly think that's what I said, please read more carefully.

I only see scummy reasons to ask for the claim.

That just means you are either very closed minded, or scum. In fact, Sudden Pressure to claim for little reason is probably the most pro-town thing anyone can ever do ever.

Why?

It catches the scum in question off guard, and any hesitancy can be directly translated to "I haven't come up with a good fakeclaim yet".

That's ridiculous. So, you ask someone to claim to "catch them off guard" and if they hesitate you can chalk it up to "not coming up with a good fake claim yet"? I have an idea. How about you and Sarc claim? And, if you guys "hesitate" we lynch you.

[Sarcastro]

What do you mean why don't people do it? It is done, scum role fish to find power roles.

Yes, they do. The only problem is that

I wasn't rolefishing

.

Just for the record, I never rolefish as scum (or town, obviously). My personal philosophy for playing scum is to always act as much like I would as town as is possible (with obvious exceptions, such as hammering townies in LyLo). I defy you to find a single example of me rolefishing. Yes, I know, it's not really proof of anything, but I figured I should tell you all the same.

First off, that was after your vote on me, which actually shows that

you're

the one that voted for me and are coming up with reasons afterwards.

Oh, I didn't realise that I wasn't allowed to point out that you're scum after voting for you. There's a difference between adding more reasons that someone you're voting is scummy and inventing justifications for a previous vote. I'm doing the former; you're doing the latter.

Second off, the whole post seemed more like you defending yourself than creating an arguement against me. Actually, the majority of your more thought out posts seem to be when you're defending yourself rather than building a case against someone else.

No, really? I seemed like I was defending myself? Maybe that's because I

was

. But part of my defense includes pointing out that all of your attacks are self-serving nonsense.

Thirdly, when did I mischaracterize you? You

were

fishing for a claim. Whether you call it "role-fishing" or "blatantly demanding a claim" doesn't matter. You wanted me to claim. You never made it clear why I was scum, and you even admitted that. And you have been jumping on any and every BW. So, I ask again, how did I mischaracterize you?

Okay, I'm not going over this again, because you're just being wilfully stupid at this point. I've explained what I was doing multiple times, and you're just ignoring me. Go read my posts. If you don't believe me, fine, but don't act like I haven't addressed this multiple times.

Sigh, let me quote it again.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

And again.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

And again, in case you missed it the last couple times.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

How am I putting words in your mouth, again?

Oh sweet zombie Jesus, there are so many sarcastic barbs that come to mind. How about this: you're putting words in my mouth

by interpreting the sentence in an absolutely retarded way

. At this point, I'm pretty sure you just have poor reading comprehension, so obviously this doesn't make you scummier.

Let me try to explain what I meant. Actually, that's difficult, because I don't think I can simplify it any more. How about this: "Blight is scum. Therefore, we should lynch him. In fact, we should lynch him quickly. In addition, because he is scum, he will need to think of a fakeclaim. If we had lynched him faster, he would not have had as much time to think of a fakeclaim. At this point, because he has already had a large amount of time to think of a fakeclaim, we should simply try to lynch him as fast as possible to try to prevent him from having any more time to think of one."

Is that sufficiently simplified for you? Now can you please explain how in the hell you managed to get "[Blight] should be lynched because [he's] not thinking up a fakeclaim fast enough" from that?

I've already given you reasons why it's scummy and not pro-town. Truth is, we don't know why you'd want me to claim so early. It's just a big WIFOM arguement waiting to happen. But, I just don't see any reason for a pro-town player to want someone to claim so early.

And, yeah, you asked me why I haven't claimed yet. Now you're just getting nit-picky. The phrase still implies that you want me to claim, and you've even said that you "demanded that I claim". I know you're going to say that I'm putting words in your mouth again, so I'll save you the time and just bring up this quote now.

No, actually, you haven't explained why it's scummy, whereas I think I've given a pretty persuasive argument for it being a null tell. Neither you nor Yagami have given any sort of logical reason for why, as scum, I would perpetrate this insane plan you two have dreamed up for me.

And no, Blight, I wouldn't say that you're putting words in my mouth when you actually quote things I said. See, because those are my words. You're obviously capable of quoting me, you just need to learn that when you make up the quotes, you can't attribute them to me.

Seriously, Blight, you lose. Your attacks are pure nonsense. Apparently quoting me and repeating the same bullshit I've already torn apart is an effective strategy in your mind, but I strongly doubt that many people here feel the same way.

Why is Blight not dead yet, guys?

[YagamiLight]

Role fishing is trying to find out someone else's role. You wanted him to claim, and thus know his role. Thus, you were role fishing.