Mini 1783: GTA 2 Mafia (GaME OVAH)

[BlackStar]

Unless you count the 1 game where I got to choose my alignment.

[Code of Honor]

Dragon I can agree with you. Ranger's counting skills are REALLY triggering my OCD sensors ensuring he is mafia

What does this even mean? Where is she counting, and why does that ensure that she's scum?

Scum team is banta and polar/ranger

But you just said that you were sure that Ranger is scum.

VOTE: TheDominator37

-Xk

[Ranger]

I'm not used to Ranger giving that huge elaborations on reads unprompted.

That wasn't huge elaboration?

I said that if you wanted elaboration, you could ask. That was the cliffnotes, short, immediate version, which there actually

was

prompt for; I was asked for reasons. I didn't feel like giving the full version, still don't, but I was fine with giving the basic reason driving the read.

I also have an issue with her comparing magna to another player

It doesn't matter. You see the style once, you learn to identify it immediately. Red Coyote was the first player I saw use it, so I associate the style with him, but the style remains very distinct and hard to miss once you've been up against it once.

she also said my play was similar to Magna's hence the scumread.

That I admit may cause confusion. Your play is not, stylistically, similar to MagnaofIllusion's. I said your play stuck out like a sore thumb. I then said MagnaofIllusion's play also stuck out like a sore thumb, just for different reasons.

Let's go with we lynch Ranger, and then on the off-chance she flips town, then we take her read lists and use them.

You know, if people actually followed through with this, I would not object.

Problem is, they never do.

Ever.

I get lynched, my very-much-accurate reads get discarded, and the town loses because they never went back to see that, maybe, just

maybe

, they should have actually listened to me rather than lynching me.

Ranger, talk to me about A Real Scrouge. I'm getting very bad feelings on her. For the same reasons as you appear to do, the fact that she looks distanced from the game. Also, after our claim she threw dirt at us for the claim. Somebody said that was suspicious, she never went deeper with that accusation and then had us as town in a later post. The progression just seems too convenient. All her stances are very convenient and middle of the road.

I'm on a lunch break right now, so I don't have the time to explain right now, but my in-depth explanation would be similar, especially about the progression being convenient and middle-of-the-road.

First of all, Ranger typically gives long walls of information.

That's literally the polar opposite of what I do? Giving long walls of information is the antithesis of my lazy, minimalist playstyle.

[BlackStar]

If you look back at all of my games you'll see that I suck at scum hunting

I played with you before and this time I think you suck because you're scum.
You said jeanne looked scummy, yet you never voted her. You did vote several null-reads though so it's not like you're hesitant with your votes either. You were actually defending her when DK started pushing her, see 300, 329, 360.

Just looked at those first 2 posts that you linked. I wasn't defending Jeanne lol. I was pointing out the sketchiness of those posts by DK

[Dragon Knight]

@Ranger's reply to me.

1. The only game I've seen you die as town in is MGSV, and your reads weren't taken because scum (me and TBone) derailed that game big-time. If you somehow manage to flip town, then I will personally follow them, and if I don't, everyone should lynch me with fire. Let's go with that.

2. MGSV you did post a lot, Machina you posted none. Ergo, you scum.

[Ranger]

BOTH OF THEM HAVE DONE FUCK-ALL, WHICH IS A SCUM TELL FOR BOTH.

Excuse me?

I'm pushing for {A Real Scourge, MagnaofIllusion} to be lynched.
I'd

compromise

on {PhantomCobalt, BlackStar} but would not be happy about it.
I'm absolutely not letting us lynch outside those four.

That's doing plenty.

This post is suspect. The “Umm my role doesn’t fit” is unnecessary given the “I don’t want to claim” follow-up. Because anyone who knows your play can narrow down what roles that might be.

I can think of many roles that do not fit my play. Doctor. Watcher. Bodyguard. Jailkeeper. Friendly Neighbor. Fruit Vendor. Innocent Child. Lover. These all share a common theme, and it took less than a minute to think of them. I'm sure I could extend the list to be longer with any real thought put in. (E.g. coroner, being a watcher variant, serves much the same purpose, albeit not being a common role.) So, yes, it narrows down the type of role I could be. It is by far no giveaway to what role I have. Replacing into a slot that has already claimed, on the other hand...

Link to the post where you surmised Blackstar is a tracker. I see your 450. What post of Masq made you surmise that.

426, Masquerade said Dragon Knight was voting a tracker claim. I was under the mistaken impression from the BlackStar-Dragon Knight debate I had skimmed around there that Dragon Knight was voting BlackStar. Ergo, BlackStar would be a tracker. (And, for obvious reasons, I would doubt the town having both a tracker

and

a watcher, but scum having a tracker would make a lot of sense.) When I discovered the mistake, I corrected myself in 450 as you yourself note.

This starts as a meta read that basically says “Dom plays exactly this way regardless of alignment”. Yet the conclusion is that “He’s super Town because vibes”. Very generic and unspecific about why the early posts give any sort of vibe as Town.

Yes. TheDominator plays in this style regardless of his alignment. This does not make it impossible to guess at his alignment. His early posting made me think town. I said this was the basic version of the read. Nobody has asked me for the advanced version, which would contain actual links to posts.

The third read is just as generic as the first two. No particular reference to actual posts.

Because nobody asked.

And that’s’ why I find these reads suspect. Ranger as Town should be skeptical that a wagon being driven hard on her has at least some scum involved in the mix.

I honestly never paid attention to the wagon composition on Jeanne. I paid attention to individual players, and gave my reads on them, but this was separate of wagon composition. We didn't really have a votecount around there as far as I can recall, so I don't even know what the wagon composition

was

. If I did, I would note my opinion of it.

In summary that’s my feeling about all of 472 is very generic. These are broad-brush stroke posts with no actual depth of analysis.

Again. Because it was not asked of me. I was very explicit. I said those were cliffnotes. I said if people wanted elaboration on any single read, I would give it. That tells everyone, right then and there, that I have more than what I stated. That tells everyone, right then and there, I am deliberately being generic. That tells everyone, right then and there, that I am not going in-depth unless I am specifically asked to, and that I will only do so on a single player at a time.

Like I said. I'm not going to waste effort putting in more time than necessary.

I’m not adverse to Ranger as the lynch today.

Oh, I was hoping you'd say that.
I'll requote this for emphasis.

I’m not adverse to Ranger as the lynch today.

This is absolutely inconsistent with MagnaofIllusion's stance on Dragon Knights.

And, I QUOTE,

It is a bad play to keep voting an uncounter-claimed Cop Day 1. Even if their play was scumtastic and filled with nothing but insulting and non-scum hunting posting.

Pray tell, what makes lynching an uncounter-claimed watcher

not

bad play, if lynching an uncounter-claimed cop is bad play?

[Ranger]

And if you doubt it...

I’m not sure what you want me to address. So we are in a role-madness game. And that makes DK’s claim Null. So what? Regardless it is still terrible play to lynch DK today if they are uncounter-claimed. Regardless of whether they could be scum either fake-claiming or claiming a Role Cop or other scum variant. DK will be re-assessed Day 2 if he survives the night. Wasting time discussing this is just that – a waste.

So, again: what makes lynching me today different from lynching Dragon Knight? I'm uncounter-claimed. Regardless of whether I'm scum either fakeclaiming, a real scum watcher, variant, or town. What makes me not worthy of being reassessed D2 if I survive the night? What makes discussing a lynch on me

not

a waste of time, when discussing Dragon Knight is a waste?

[Ranger]

I will garruntee that if you try to tell us who to investigate, we will do the exact opposite of what you say.

Investigate me.

:P

[Ranger]

2. MGSV you did post a lot, Machina you posted none.

Uh, I posted the same in both games. Including postgame, I had 48 posts in Metal Gear Solid. Including postgame and my hydra partner's posts at the beginning (about five?), I had 76 posts in Machina. In both games, I was out before D2.

I come in like clockwork. I post once or twice a day. Never more, never less. I get caught up. If I need to attend to a time-intensive task (i.e. explaining a read in-depth), I will spend time on it. I then leave the game. I may come back to the game if I haven't logged out yet (e.g. I was working in another game, finished my work there, and saw new posts since my last), but once I leave, I leave for the day, and don't come back until the next. This is consistent across all my games. It never changes. Never has, never will.

[Dragon Knight]

2. MGSV you did post a lot, Machina you posted none.

Uh, I posted the same in both games. Including postgame, I had 48 posts in Metal Gear Solid. Including postgame and my hydra partner's posts at the beginning (about five?), I had 76 posts in Machina. In both games, I was out before D2.

I come in like clockwork. I post once or twice a day. Never more, never less. I get caught up. If I need to attend to a time-intensive task (i.e. explaining a read in-depth), I will spend time on it. I then leave the game. I may come back to the game if I haven't logged out yet (e.g. I was working in another game, finished my work there, and saw new posts since my last), but once I leave, I leave for the day, and don't come back until the next. This is consistent across all my games. It never changes. Never has, never will.

You had 48 posts because we killed you N1. XP

You had significantly less in Machina, because you were in a hydra.

[Polar Vortex]

And no, you don't fucking get a choice in who you investigate. I propose we also take a vote on that one.

Bearbert

I will garruntee that if you try to tell us who to investigate, we will do the exact opposite of what you say.

Antitown to the core like expected. And please stop with the meta nonsense. Nobody wants to hear that.

Incidentally, I'm becoming more and more interested in lynching BBT. He's not shown us anything. Why is he town in your reads Ranger? I don't think you've given a reason for that and I don't see any possible one. So please, do elaborate on this.

Range is my new mafia best friend. I love her posts. Really happy she turned that slot into something useful. Her posts make sense, her suspects are solid and her tone is really genuine. Also, I was baffled by the "investigate me post" by her, but thinking more about it I quite like it(before you ask DK, I know she wasn't serious). The main point would be that scum her really wouldn't want to draw attention on the possibility of DK investigating her. Usually scum would have shut up about this. So she'd be my strongest town read so far.<---- I know the whole reasoning about Ranger isn't very clear so feel free to ask about it

Ranger, do you like playing scum and if yes, would you consider yourself prone to taking risks?

Bear

[Polar Vortex]

2. MGSV you did post a lot, Machina you posted none.

Uh, I posted the same in both games. Including postgame, I had 48 posts in Metal Gear Solid. Including postgame and my hydra partner's posts at the beginning (about five?), I had 76 posts in Machina. In both games, I was out before D2.

I come in like clockwork. I post once or twice a day. Never more, never less. I get caught up. If I need to attend to a time-intensive task (i.e. explaining a read in-depth), I will spend time on it. I then leave the game. I may come back to the game if I haven't logged out yet (e.g. I was working in another game, finished my work there, and saw new posts since my last), but once I leave, I leave for the day, and don't come back until the next. This is consistent across all my games. It never changes. Never has, never will.

You had 48 posts because we killed you N1. XP

You had significantly less in Machina, because you were in a hydra.

Are you trying to undermine your own point abour the machina game?

Bear

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ranger, I don't get your scum reads on ARS and MoI.

Last I checked they seemed pretty town but I haven't read in a little while.

Talk to me about em?

[Dragon Knight]

I'm saying Ranger had less than the hydra's count because it was, Y'know. A hydra.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It doesn't matter. You see the style once, you learn to identify it immediately. Red Coyote was the first player I saw use it, so I associate the style with him, but the style remains very distinct and hard to miss once you've been up against it once.

Oh, so it is a playstyle tell that happens to be relevant across any player universally. Noted.

I can think of many roles that do not fit my play. Doctor. Watcher. Bodyguard. Jailkeeper. Friendly Neighbor. Fruit Vendor. Innocent Child. Lover. These all share a common theme, and it took less than a minute to think of them. I'm sure I could extend the list to be longer with any real thought put in. (E.g. coroner, being a watcher variant, serves much the same purpose, albeit not being a common role.) So, yes, it narrows down the type of role I could be. It is by far no giveaway to what role I have. Replacing into a slot that has already claimed, on the other hand...

You’ve conveniently dodged the main point by trying to sideline the main point I was making – why make the comment at all in a Role Madness game. Everyone has a role. You’ve just outed you aren’t super strong roles like Cop / Vig / Etc by your own admission. As I said – it serves not Town purpose but as scum grandstanding while pretending to not know your slot had already claimed it fits quite nicely.

I see your point why you thought Blackstar was a Tracker.

Re: all the “Nobody asked me” – consider yourself asked. I’d love to see actual support for all reasons on the three main players pushing for your slot (being Dragon / Dom / Banterlords)

I honestly never paid attention to the wagon composition on Jeanne. I paid attention to individual players, and gave my reads on them, but this was separate of wagon composition. We didn't really have a votecount around there as far as I can recall, so I don't even know what the wagon composition was. If I did, I would note my opinion of it.

Don’t quite see how this makes any sense as Town. You are reading through the thread, supposedly as Town, and seeing multiple players call out your slot for being meta lurking scum and it doesn’t trigger at all that there may be a scum hiding inside there? Nope they all are super strong Town in your eyes. Not really buying that.

This is absolutely inconsistent with MagnaofIllusion's stance on Dragon Knights. And, I QUOTE,

Pray tell, what makes lynching an uncounter-claimed watcher not bad play, if lynching an uncounter-claimed cop is bad play?

See this is the ‘gotcha’ kind play I expect from scum. “He said he’s not lynching an UnCCed Cop but why would he want to lynch an UnCCed Watcher … Inconsistent lynch it”

Cops are an exceedingly strong role. Much stronger than Watcher. This is why I asked Code to draw the line about where they thought it was acceptable to lynch a Power Role. Because Watcher is exceedingly less powerful than Cop. I would not lynch an UnCCed Cop or Doctor or Vig. Regardless of how weak their dayplay was. Because they are game-breaking roles for Town. Watcher, like any other number of roles, on the other hand isn’t .. it is the weakest of the information roles Town has available.

On the other hand it is a very strong Scum role since its purpose is to ferret out Town Power Roles like Cop / Vig since scum with the Watcher have to make much fewer assessments and reads in deciding who to watch.

But please – elaborate on why my being willing to consider a lynch on you is analgous to being willing to consider a lynch on a Cop claim. I very much am looking forward to your response.

[Code of Honor]

Who's your bigger scum read, Magna, BlackStar or Ranger?

[Code of Honor]

Who's your bigger scum read, Magna, BlackStar or Ranger?

-Xk

[shos]

PhantomCobalt actually HAS picked up on his prod, but failed to post after 24 hours from his prod. He is now being replaced.

[Polar Vortex]

Ranger, I don't get your scum reads on ARS and MoI.

Last I checked they seemed pretty town but I haven't read in a little while.

Talk to me about em?

Umm, any reasons why they seem town? Especially ARS. Talk to me about that:P
Bear

[Polar Vortex]

Magna, if you agree with me that watcher is a weak role than why did you ask us about why we'd be happy if Jeanne was NK-ed?

Bearbert

[shos]

Finally a pagetop for VC? Will you post 7 more posts until I finish making this VC?
It appears not. Only one more post. Oh well, time to go flavor hunting!
Even after flavor, not a pagetop...sad panda.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2016-04-24 00:01:11).

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes for a lynch.

VC 1.5

Votecount #1.5

BlueBloodedToffee

(1) - FA_Q2.

The Banterlords

(0) -

FA_Q2

(1) - BlueBloodedToffee.

Dragon Knight

(1) - BlackStar.

BlackStar

(2) - MagnaOfIllusion, Masquerade.

Code of Honor

(0) -

Ranger

(2) - Dragon Knight, TheDominator37.

Masquerade

(0) -

PhantomCobalt

(0) -

TheDominator37

(3) - PhantomCobalt, Polar Vortex, Code Of Honor.

MagnaofIllusion

(1) - Ranger.

Polar Vortex

(0) -

A Real Scourge

(0) -

NOT VOTING (2) - A Real Scourge, The Banterlords.

NOTICE:

1. Looking for replacement for PhantomCobalt. I have a replacement list with 2 names, waiting on them to answer.
2. Should any replacement happen when deadline counter is <3 real-time days, the timer will be reset to 3 days upon replacement.

Spoiler: unrelated to game

I had some assault rifle shooting done today in the army, so I thought about you guys <3

Did you know?

The Yakuza gang, which holds the name of the transnational crime syndicate from Japan, has over 100,000 (!!!) members these days. Woah, creepy!

Wanna know more?

As a ritual of atonement for bringing disgrace, Yubitsume is often performed by Yakuza. This means amputating your own little finger (no anaesthetics of course) to show remorse and beg for forgiveness.

[Dragon Knight]

Listen, we are going to lynch Ranger.
Thats all there is too it.

Now you can hop on so that we get a lynch, or you can sit by and we do no lynch.
Your guys choice.
No compromises for me today.

-Sentinel of the Diamonds

[Polar Vortex]

{TheDominator, The Banterlords, BlueBloodedToffee, Dragon Knight, FA_Q2}

Not surprisingly the players most interested in a Ranger list (Dragon, Banter, Dom) fall right into the pool of players who Ranger thinks are un-impeachable Town. And let’s examine the reasons for these 3 per Ranger –

Why is it unsurprising?

The third read is just as generic as the first two. No particular reference to actual posts.
And that’s’ why I find these reads suspect. Ranger as Town should be skeptical that a wagon being driven hard on her has at least some scum involved in the mix. That’s natural. Especially since the entirety of the push is basically meta driven and as Polar has pointed out Jean’s claim being bad doesn’t mean that it has to come from scum. But Ranger doesn’t bat an eye at any of the players driving hardest for her. Nope they are all obvious, unimpeachable Town.

Assuming she's town, which of those players would you suspect?

That's because he's saying words you want to hear.

Ranger is peddling what she thinks will best deflect the wagon off herself IMO.

I really don't think the best way for scum in Ranger's position to survive would be to town read the players who pushed for her lynch and go after you. This sounds like the opposite of what scum-Ranger should be doing.

I certainly wasn’t sold on “Let’s lynch for meta” stance. But the way her reads have come down fit so solidly with “Scum looking to survive” as opposed to “Town actually wanting to find scum” I’m not adverse to Ranger as the lynch today.

Yeah, I really don't get the "Scum looking to survive" vibe from her. I mean, it's not like she claimed cop at L-1

[Polar Vortex]

We've collectively decided to give a pass to a scummier player, one who's scummy because of things he has actually done and said, who claimed after being put at L-1, which gave him an actual motive to claim. A player who claimed cop with an implicit twist, which gives him room to wiggle tomorrow. But, ok, everyone is willing to take this risk, and so are we. Now why aren't you willing to take the same risk (I'd even say, a smaller risk) with a player whose biggest faults are basically not playing and only showing up to defend herself and claim unprompted?

How am I the only one who sees the issue here?

MoI, talk to me. I thought you'd see this, but apparently you don't. How is ranger's lynch acceptable but DK's isn't, taking not just their claims, but their play in consideration?

-Snow (previous one was mine too)

[TheDominator37]

Dragon I can agree with you. Ranger's counting skills are REALLY triggering my OCD sensors ensuring he is mafia

What does this even mean? Where is she counting, and why does that ensure that she's scum?

Scum team is banta and polar/ranger

But you just said that you were sure that Ranger is scum.

VOTE: TheDominator37

-Xk

Sarcasm...